Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: RSS
Tim Fulton 00:00
Tim, welcome to the confluence cast presented by Columbus underground. We are a weekly Columbus centric podcast focusing on the civics lifestyle entertainment and people of our city. I’m your host, Tim Fulton, this week, leadership is more than just a title. It’s about influence, impact and the ability to drive meaningful change. In this week’s episode, I sat down with Kate Bauer, the executive director of leadership Columbus, to discuss the launch of this year’s signature program and the vision for the future of leadership in our city. We explored what makes the program a cornerstone for professional and civic development in Columbus, how it equips emerging leaders with the skills and connections to create lasting change, and the role leadership Columbus plays in shaping the city’s future, from fostering collaboration across industries to tackling pressing community challenges. Kate shares insights on what’s next for leadership Columbus, and how you can get involved, whether you’re an aspiring leader, a seasoned professional, or simply someone passionate about the growth of Columbus. This conversation offers a behind the scenes look at the impact of leadership development. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at the confluence cast.com enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Kate Bauer, the executive director of leadership Columbus. Kate, how are you? I’m doing. Well, good. Tell us a little bit about your background. What brings you to leadership Columbus?
Kate Bauer 01:43
Yeah, so leadership Columbus, I feel like, is a perfect collection of all of the background the things that I’ve done my first career was at the Big Lots corporate in their learning development. From there, I moved on to nice source where I was also in learning and development, coaching, facilitating, and then I had the opportunity to go to Columbia gas and work in their community space. And during that time, I took the leadership Columbus class, and I joke, and I think everybody knows this, so it’s safe to say, at the time Lori was there, I looked at that job, and I said, I would, I would love Laurie’s job. I would love to do that job. And then, as is the story, I think of a lot of leadership Columbus classes, which I don’t actually like to tell, because I don’t know if it’s a selling point for corporations, but I met somebody in my class who kind of recruited me over to another organization. Oh, okay, yeah. So I went over to cover my meds to also develop their philanthropic strategy, and had a great time doing that. And then this position opened up, and it had always been my sort of dream, and all of my background led to it. So here I am
Tim Fulton 02:51
and tell me about sort of what, what excites you about the role, like, what were you passionate about when you were coming on board? Oh,
Kate Bauer 02:57
well, I do have a passion for learning and development. If you’re familiar with strengths, finders. One of my strengths is Maximizer. I love to work with people to identify their strengths and how they can utilize those in their role. But with leadership. Columbus, I think the difference is not just maximizing people’s personal strengths, but civic engagement and how they can implement that to make a stronger city. What excites me is there’s so much low hanging fruit. There’s so much opportunity, not just with the organization, but with the city that is growing. We have such an opportunity to ensure that we have a strong, civically engaged and also professionally developed group of leaders coming in cool
Tim Fulton 03:39
and you right now your applications are open for the signature program, which is your sorry, for lack of a better term, your signature sort of thing that you do. Your signature program, for those that are not familiar with it, what is the signature program?
Kate Bauer 03:55
Our signature program is a program that people are most familiar with. I would say that it’s our flagship program. You know, we are, that is how we started. I would say that we are under the umbrella of a lot of other leadership organizations. So there’s there’s leadership Dallas, there’s Leadership Louisville, etc. Most of them started under the chamber, which we also did, but it was designed to be a, you know, almost year long curriculum for people to take part in learning about their city and becoming more engaged. We grew to the point that we obviously moved out from under the chamber, but we started much the same way, but the program is a 10 month experience, and each of the days you go to an opening retreat, you receive some professional development, you get to know everyone. And then for the next 10 months, we say Columbus is your classroom, and so it’s very experiential. It’s, you know, I guess you would call it themes or topics for each of the days in the month. So we have, you know, education day, we have government day, Arts and Culture Day, and throughout the process, you are also assigned a community impact project. Correct. So we work with our local nonprofits too. They pitch kind of a sustainable project that can be done within that time frame, and they get a group of really smart leaders in this city that are going to tackle it and put together something that stands up, that will be sustainable for that nonprofit. About 60 people in each of the classes, and we have 3400 graduates in the city, many of them that people probably know, okay,
Tim Fulton 05:25
having the perspective of gone through the program a couple of years ago, do you see, and you, you, you’re in a class right now, so like you’re, you’ve sort of seen how it’s evolved. I’m just curious what, how has it evolved over time, and is it responding to needs of the city, or is it much more sort of cultural evolution? Talk about that
Kate Bauer 05:51
both yes and right. I went through the program in 2017 proud grad, I think I did mention that. Yeah, it was tried and true programming for probably almost 30 years, 30 plus years. But obviously that needed to be updated. And so much needed work in the space of cultural, you know, dei, and ensuring that all the program needs reflected and also attracted, you know, all of the people that we wanted in the program. But for me, as I come into it now, the work that needs to be done is ensuring that it’s relevant and up to date. And so, you know, for some of our program days, I brought in arts and culture. I think it’s interesting that that wasn’t, you know, one that has been done for a long time in a city that has so many little gems that and opportunities. So we have an Arts and Culture Day. And another example would be our education day. I brought in tech equity and thinking about what students are being faced with as they come back in after the pandemic, and how tech and having all this access to Tech has affected them. And you know, we’ll have speakers come in. They’re talking about how they’re not using Tech with their students because they actually want to draw them away from that so that they can think about things differently, problem solve and
Tim Fulton 06:59
I mean, by extension, that’s future workforce, right? What is the ideal person for the program? Like, who, who is it meant to affect? Like, who, who, who should apply?
Kate Bauer 07:15
I like this question because I consistently get different answers from people. When I say you should apply for the program. They say, Oh, I’m too old, or I’ve lived in Columbus my whole life. Or they think it’s a very specific demographic person, a young leader or but it’s not. I mean, we have a pretty large span of folks who come through the program, different ages, different points in their career. The other thing is, people always say, I’ve lived in Columbus my whole life. I don’t know what you would have to teach me, but I would wager that anybody that goes through the program absolutely learns something about the history of Columbus, or what’s up and coming in Columbus, something that they didn’t know before, and are oftentimes inspired to then get more involved. So anyone who’s passionate about our city, passionate about civic engagement, also wanting to network and meet with other people. But I think it shapes you as a leader to really understand how you can help build a stronger city by supporting all of the different nonprofits, programs and partnerships.
Tim Fulton 08:14
Talk about to the sort of networking and talk through what the takeaways are for the program like, here’s, you know, you go to school and you get a degree, and then ostensibly, you have learned economics, or you have learned more about biology. What is the takeaway for the folks in the signature program? I mean,
Kate Bauer 08:36
again, at a very high level, I’m going to say it is that sense of being inspired to get more engaged in the community. But I think there’s a personal takeaway for everyone coming out of it. You know, we’ve had grads come back and say, you know, it changed the way that I parented. It changed the way that I let it work. It changed the way that I voted, which is really interesting. And so everybody’s experience, yes, we are going to have tried and choose day true days, but everybody’s experience is going to be different. They’re going to have a different group of folks that they’re working with. They’re going to have a different nonprofit they’re working with. And one thing that I like to say about leadership Columbus is it’s really also an opportunity to get outside of your own echo chamber. You’re not going to you’re not around the same people that you always are. You’re with different people from all over the city. You’re going to be in a group with different people, and we like to switch up the days as well to ensure that they’re experiencing all of these different, you know, folks and, you know, assign different places to visit. So there’s a very personal experience, and what you’re going to get out of it might be very personal, but at a very high level, you are coming out with it with tried and true professional development. We do that on the front end. We give them some professional development to a professional development to apply throughout. But then we also, again, that civic engagement piece, which I, you know, to me, is also professional development, putting that into action and truly understanding it’s not just about joining a board. It’s not just about, you know, giving or volunteering. There’s a way to advocate, and if you understand how this city works, a little bit. Better, then you can understand how to be a better leader. And
Tim Fulton 10:03
you the expectation, because it’s leadership development, the expectation is that the program is paid for by their employer most of the time, some of the time,
Kate Bauer 10:13
most of the time, it is paid by the employer. We do have some individuals who pay for it. We do also have assistance programs. So we have tuition assistance, which is often awarded to, you know, small small businesses, nonprofits, and then we also have a diversity scholarship that we offer to folks
Tim Fulton 10:31
got it. Talk a little bit more about basically how leadership Columbus contributes to the broader community. I’m thinking about those impact projects that you mentioned.
Kate Bauer 10:41
Yes. I mean, the impact projects are a significant way for us to measure. If you want to talk about impact, and if we’re just talking about hours and dollars, I do. It’s our we have our impact report here. I don’t want to have to pee, but you know, in 2024, $31,500 saved by nonprofits, by people coming in and serving as consultants and serving as those thought leaders. You know, we’ve got 885 hours of consulting service, volunteer work, and so that’s one way that they’re having impact. My goal with our community impact projects is to ensure that they’re sustainable. Okay? And so with that, I want that project. So it used to be that you could do, we’ll do a one time fundraiser. Still great for a nonprofit. We love an infusion of cash. But if you’re doing a business plan, or you’re helping them set up, we have a group right now working with community shelter board to help create basically a space where, if you’re unhoused, like, where do your pets go? And so so often people don’t seek or they’re not able to stay in shelter because they’re worried about their pet, and so what a cool project for them to work on that is going to have sustainable impact in this community and ensuring that it’s done right? So that’s that’s one of 10 projects that we have right now. If that gives you any insight, we’re also working with the matriarchs, buddy up for life, women of color retail Alliance. So it runs the gamut, and we assign those projects based on interest, skills, etc. So that’s one big way that we can have impact. But I would also say we’re creating long term community trustees, and I can only speak for myself, but as I was going through the program, I got involved with Dress for Success Columbus, and I was with that organization. I was the president of that organization, and then I stayed on. I stayed on through a loophole for seven years, so I actually stayed longer, but that inspired me to get involved and be impactful and think differently about how I could use my skills versus joining a board, not just for passion, but when I went to dress for success, my background again, was in leadership development, and I thought, how can I use my skill set for this organization to help move them forward? And then now I serve on the board for the Wexner Center for the Arts, as you know, so it kind of inspired that. And then last, I would say, it has created this network of community trustees and so big network of graduates that we have for the signature program and a couple of other programs which you’re aware of. And when you meet someone that’s been in the program, there’s just this shared sense of, gosh, how do we, you know, what a great program. And then also this connection, we also send out all of our participants for a community Trustee Day to meet with leaders in this city who are doing good in our corporate sector, and so that’s always a really interesting day as well, to see how they think about community trusteeship, even where they sit in a large organization, and how important it is to give back to the city. Yeah,
Tim Fulton 13:32
well, you, frankly, you hit on a couple of questions I was about to ask, but I just did. Wanted to note that when I’ve seen people talk about leadership Columbus. It really does feel that they tend to be folks who have are feel a greater ownership for the city as a whole, but really have an ownership over leadership Columbus, almost to the extent and it has been said at council that they’re part of fraternity or sorority, right? And that, like the next question that people are like, Oh, I went through the program. The very next question is always, oh, what class, right, right? And there is sort of this, I have not taken leadership Columbus, but I did pledge a fraternity. And like, hearing you talk about it, it’s like, oh, there’s, there’s a benefit to we went through the same thing each year, but that those things sort of change over time. And like, you know how, how, quote, unquote, pledging goes, right? And it’s almost, for lack of a better term, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, you’re pledging the to the city, right? This sort of like commitment, or at least commitment to be aware of what’s happening around you. Fair,
Kate Bauer 14:49
yeah, I think it’s definitely a commitment. I mean, I think the I hear what you’re saying about the fraternity, I think there’s just, you know, for me, it’s about bonding with people that you’re spending 10 months with. Hmm, and it’s also a shared experience. And so each of the days it’s sometimes it’s really hard conversations, hard days, hard realities that you’re seeing in Columbus. And so to go through that, and then, yeah, you meet someone from a different class, or whatever that might be, and say, you know, you know that they went through a similar experience. I don’t like the idea that it feels exclusive to anybody in any way, you know. We call out, yeah, you know. And we have board members who, they believe in the larger outcomes of leadership Columbus. They believe in the larger mission of leadership Columbus, which is the idea of, this is our city as a civic engagement. How do we make it better? How do we support the systems and the structures and the nonprofits and the people in it to ensure that we continue to grow, to ensure that we are a strong city. Talk
Tim Fulton 15:47
about because you’re fairly new in the role, not not incredibly new, but talk about sort of short and long term goals that you have for the organization. Yeah,
Kate Bauer 15:56
short term goals are to strengthen the signature program and ensure that it is relevant and up to date again. I think there was some great work that was done prior to me joining at the end of June, but I think there’s always room for improvement, especially with the city that is consistently changing, consistently growing. And I mentioned one of those earlier, which is just, you know, our education, it used to be okay. We’re going to talk about Columbus City Schools. We’re going to send people out to visit. Send people out to visit them, and this is the way the system works. And we wanted to dig a little deeper this time and think about, you know, tech equity and how students were affected by the pandemic, and what are different school districts doing to dig into that. I think it’s also important to note that it is very Columbus centric. We’re leadership Columbus, but we realize that many, many of our participants, yes, they work in the city or nearby, but, you know, there’s other school districts. We now say more central Ohio is probably a little bit. We branched out a little bit. So we branch out to those partners and leaders to come in, like, what’s Dublin City schools doing about, you know, tech, tech, situate equity. And that was the, I think that’s a school district I was telling you earlier that said we are actually pulling back on the iPads, and we are pulling back on some of this Tech because we want students to be able to problem solve and cognitively think without that at their fingertips all the time. And so it’s interesting to hear what different districts and schools are doing, but that’s just one day. And one example, when you think about government day, or, you know, our Public Safety and Justice day, oh my gosh, like all of those, really need to be consistently evolving to address what’s currently happening. Yeah, and that’s so that’s short term. Get stronger what we’re already good at right? I think, you know, I think bringing back even some programs that we have, and then we also, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention our other program.
Tim Fulton 17:49
Yeah, that’s what I was gonna do right after, yeah, we have a nonprofit
Kate Bauer 17:53
board governance training. I’m really excited. We actually just got a grant from the Columbus foundation to offer that free two sessions, free, one in April and one in October. And so that is capacity building for the folks in our city. And I think you have a lot of people who serve on boards, and maybe they have not gone through something like this. Some people don’t even know they can get sued right by serving on a board. They don’t know the different pieces of it. And so excited about strengthening that programming and also making it more accessible.
Tim Fulton 18:24
And then we by way of the grant, by way of the
Kate Bauer 18:26
grant, it is free for folks who want to attend. And we think that, yeah, yeah, yeah. We think every board should encourage their board members to go through some form of nonprofit board governance training, yeah,
Tim Fulton 18:39
well, and to be clear, this is what’s ensuring that they know how to be a good fiduciary, I imagine, at least some high level accounting overview and like, what’s your responsibility, right? That’s a there’s a lot of laws.
Kate Bauer 18:53
I think that those are some of the biggest barriers to when people want to join a board, they are concerned that they can’t speak, you know, about the financials, or they don’t understand the financials. So we’re trying to, like, pull the, you know, pull the curtain, curtain back on that. Or they just don’t really understand, you know, I don’t want to have to fundraise. I don’t want to have to So we also have a piece on that. And so every board is different. I think that’s, that’s the other piece. People might not understand, and they operate differently. And some of them are governing. Some of them are not. Some of them you are expected to fundraise. Some you’re just opening doors, right? And so understanding how all of that works removes that, and then it allows, you know, even more people to step out and say, Okay, I feel confident joining a board and, you know, understanding how it works, right?
Tim Fulton 19:35
And the other program I’m aware of that you have is cola Central, Ohio Leadership Academy. Talk about that a bit.
Kate Bauer 19:42
Yeah, our central Ohio Leadership Academy, we inherited that from another organization. I think it’s been around since 2011 we’ve been running it for four years. I believe. Don’t quote me on that. I guess you just did though.
Tim Fulton 19:58
It. Fine,
Kate Bauer 20:01
but that is a very strong program so developed at the Fisher school business and by some very smart people. It’s a six day program for rising juniors and seniors. And we accept students from Central Ohio, you know, surrounding school districts, but roughly 50 students get together for this week long event in the summer, and they talk about, you know, how to use their voice. They talk about how to be strong leaders. They get into smaller groups and try to become more comfortable with speaking up and speaking out. It is just a really different sort of week long experience, I would say, for these students to think again about how they can make a difference in the world. They’re already leaders, and so we’re just asking them to step more fully into that space. And they are the leaders you know, that are coming down, that are, I don’t want to say leaders of tomorrow, because I feel like I’m stealing someone else’s phrase, okay, but we’ve had, you know, students come out of that, and they have started nonprofits. They are now authors. They are looking, you know, for entrepreneurship. And so it’s been a really amazing thing to think that you might have been a catalyst for somebody who is already such a great leader, and now they’re really stepping into it, because they don’t feel like they have to wait, or they have to attend this special thing, or they have to. It’s really inspiring for students and their and their parents, and we get a lot of great feedback about what, what a life changing sort of week it has been for many students. That’s great. That is cost free to students. Applications are open now, okay, and we encourage your rising juniors and seniors to apply. And of course,
Tim Fulton 21:39
there’ll be links to all this in the show notes as well. If there are individuals who represent companies, organizations that want to, first of all, I guess, submit an impact project to the signature program, or get more involved. Is there? How would you suggest that they do that, besides taking the program themselves, like, how can you partner with other organizations?
Kate Bauer 22:04
One of our other short term goals is also, we’ve seen a lot of other leadership organizations do really well, and we’ve also gotten a lot of feedback from our 3400 alumni in the city that they would like some kind of membership program. And so we have hired on someone who’s going to be running that for us, and she has some incredible ideas. And so we’re looking to launch a membership program this year. It’ll be providing people with, you know, we want to maintain that develop, develop, connect and inspire. You know, our tagline, and so develop. We’d like to offer additional professional development opportunities connect them, not just with their current the class that they went through, but with the current class, previous classes, bringing them all together and inspire them to stay engaged and really do more in their communities. And so we’re looking at having programming that falls into each of those categories. It’s really exciting for us, because even, you know, we just celebrated our 50th anniversary, so we’re in our 51st year, but for the first time in a long time, we had had an event where we brought everybody together, and we had over 300 people attend, and they came from all over, and it was all these grads, and they were so excited to see one another again. And they said, Please do it again. Please do it again. And so we’re going to do that, you know, well, we’ll have it we’ll have another fundraiser, but also we’re going to do that on a smaller scale for participants who want to see each other and network. And the other thing that we hear from from people, as we’ve started asking them, is also, you know, what are the ways, what could be parts of the membership program? And a lot of it is, they want to make it local, too, to their communities. And so yes, they want these larger events. But also, can you do something in my neighborhood? Can we do something that impacts the community my neighborhood, both social, but then also, like, how can we support something happening in my neighborhood? And so that will be an interesting journey. See how we kind of marry those okay? And we’re also thinking of so two programs that we’ve had in the past that we no longer have are one that was for new leaders, and one that was for executives. We could put them back on but for now, those are on ice. But we own, we own all the content. And so what we’re thinking is we would offer those, you know, everything from time management to coaching, etc. We could offer those ad hoc to organizations. And so when we think about that corporate membership, we thought creatively about it. Yes, you could be a member there, and you could get one of those programs, maybe for your organization. But also, could you donate one to a nonprofit? Because it’s so often that nonprofits don’t get that professional development. So if you’re somebody that works at, you know, a large organization, and you also serve on a board, you think to yourself, This is a great opportunity. I feel like, I hope I’m not getting anything away, because Allison’s still working on this a lot. I don’t want to, like, step on her toes, but those are the types of things we’re thinking about to really create value for investing in us and making sure that we’re continuing invest in nonprofits. Because, you know, part of our role, we feel, is really lifting up nonprofits. COVID and ensuring that they’re strong as well. For
Tim Fulton 25:02
folks that are interested in applying to the signature program, what I’ve seen it, it’s, you know, where do you work? Couple of letters of recommendation. How are you involved in the city? How do you want to be involved in the city? I guess I’m curious about how they are evaluated and chosen.
Kate Bauer 25:21
Yeah, so it is an anonymous behind the scenes process. I It used to be that the executive director would just kind of go through them and decide who’s in and who’s out. We don’t do it that way anymore. We have volunteers who it’s a blind process. They take out names organizations, but it’s really trying to identify if people are passionate about, you know, getting involved in our city, or passionate about learning more, are really engaged and you don’t, there’s no previous, I know, you kind of asked, like, you know, what have you done the past? It’s more about what is your passion for? So we do have a lot of people that come in and say, I’ve volunteered with this organization. I want to work with this type of, like, this is the type of, you know, like, I like women’s causes, or I like animals, or I’m really concerned about the housing situation, which it comes up a lot. And so one, I think it just demonstrates, you know, that you’re paying attention to what’s happening in the city, and you’re wondering a little bit more how you can get involved new on the precipice of that. But also, yeah, do you really want to take it? I I’m afraid to say this out loud, but I’m going to, I think sometimes in some of the organizations, we want our long term folks, and there’s usually, at some places, some organizations, there’s a line of people that are waiting to be the next, you know, person tapped to go through leadership Columbus, and you know, it’s, it’s kind of a really cool thing, and you’re excited To do it, and you’re ready for your turn. I think we’ve seen when it doesn’t go well, is where somebody who you know is at a law firm, and they get tapped on the shoulder, and they’re like, it’s your turn. They’re like, I don’t really have time for this, but I’ll do it because it’ll be good for my career. I would say, though, that 99% of the time the person that goes through that program will turn around and say, This was great experience. I’m so glad I did it, but worst case scenario is somebody goes through and they’re doing it because they think it’s something they should do for work versus something that they’re personally passionate about. Yeah,
Tim Fulton 27:10
well, and I go, sorry to go back to the fraternity model again. But like, one thing that they always sort of imbued in US was like, Hey, be an active, active and then be an active alumni. And so like, I guess what it feels like is you are sort of marrying this resource that’s been honed and developed over time with the signature program, by putting the Alumni Program, sorry, membership is what you’re calling it, right? Putting that membership program together, yeah. Same final question I ask everybody else, what do you think Columbus is doing well? And what do you think Columbus is not doing so
Kate Bauer 27:49
well? Oh, gosh, I don’t like this one. It’s
Tim Fulton 27:53
good because hopefully it’s Oh, it’s honest,
Kate Bauer 27:56
it’s honest. I feel like I’m not gonna maybe I’m biased, because I’m, you know, I serve on the Wexner Center of the Arts. I think we’re doing the art scene really well. And I think you could argue with me, oh, so this city’s doing it better, sure, sure, they’ve got it different. But like, we have so many little gems here, and we have so many and we get Franklinton arts district, we have the big ones. We have the Wexner. We have Columbus Museum of Art. But you’ve got 934 ROY G BIV, you’ve got, you know, short north and Betsy doing so much work and ensuring that it’s, you know, Incorporated, even as you go down there and look at the side of the street. So I think we do that really well. I hope we support our artists really well. I know GCAC, although they’re looking for a new leader, but I know Tom did a really good job of providing, I think it’s like residency grants and artists and filling the endowment, and you know, so I think we do that well, and I’m proud of our city for that. And even it was somebody mentioned that they’ve been to a lot of shows, theaters, etc, and when they first came here, somebody took them to the Ohio theater. And just what a kind of breathtaking moment that was for them, despite having been to all of these other so I think that, you know, any because I would be remiss if I didn’t also mention, you know, performing arts and everything we have in the symphony and Short North I went to a show there last year. Short North stage like it was amazing. So I think we do that well. And again, maybe I’m, you know, just fair shelter. But I think we
Tim Fulton 29:22
do that well, and what are we not doing so well,
Kate Bauer 29:25
I think, and again, this is going to feel self serving to you, but I think we act like we’re this really collaborative city, this really like but it goes back to maybe a little bit of that exclusivity people who come here who are new. I don’t think we’re as welcoming as we pretend that we are and I’ve as I go through bringing back this two day onboarding, I hear more and more experiences of people who say, Yeah, you’re Clicky. And so we come here and we don’t feel as welcome, and until they find their niche, their their tribe, whatever you want to call it, but, and maybe some folks would disagree with me, but I. Is what I am hearing is maybe we’re not as welcoming as we could be, or people come here for work, but they don’t plan to stay. And so hopefully we can do that and do that warm welcome to the city and change a little bit of that. Okay,
Tim Fulton 30:11
Kate, thanks for your time.
Kate Bauer 30:13
You’re welcome. You
Tim Fulton 30:19
music. Thank you for listening to the confluence cast presented by clumps underground again. You get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at the confluence cast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of The confluence cast, with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite leader. If you’re interested in sponsoring the confluence cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info, at the confluence cast.com, our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I’m your host. Tim Fulton, Have a great week. You.
