The 2016 Summer Movie Season

Tim Fulton 0:08Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focused on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I am your host, Tim Fulton. This week we are going to the movies. In anticipation of the unofficial end of the summer movie season, we talk this week with Columbus Underground film reviewer Hope Madden, who talks about the dearth of big budget films that came out this year, and a couple of gems that are worth your time. To wrap things up this week, we have a short interview with John Dougherty, the executive director of the Columbus Film Commission. He and I talk about the commission, about what it does, about what it doesn't do, and how you can help bring more films to Columbus. Uh, my interview with John was recorded live at Motive, Social Motivation for the Creative Class, back in May of this year. More information on Motive is at motivecolumbus.com. You can get more information on the films that Hope recommends and on the Columbus Film Commission in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Today's episode is sponsored by the Mega Weekend Newsletter. Sign up to get a rundown of events in and around Columbus every Thursday. You can sign up at columbusunderground.com. Enjoy the interviews. I'm sitting down here with Hope Madden, film reviewer for Columbus Underground. Hope, how are you?

Hope Madden 1:41I'm good. How are you, Tim?

Tim Fulton 1:42I'm doing great. Doing great. We seek to talk about sort of the state of summer movies. It- was this a good summer for movies?

Hope Madden 1:51It was not, actually.

Tim Fulton 1:53Okay.

Hope Madden 1:53Particularly the blockbusters.

Tim Fulton 1:54Okay.

Hope Madden 1:55I think there was a lot of, of underperformance and a lot of dreck, and not a ton of big, bright, shiny stars, actually, this summer.

Tim Fulton 2:03How many of the, of the blockbusters did you see?

Hope Madden 2:06All of them.

Tim Fulton 2:07Okay.

Hope Madden 2:07Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 2:08Big- biggest disappointment?

Hope Madden 2:10You know, I was, um... I mean, for me, in terms of a film, I, I had high, I, I had, I was hopeful about Suicide Squad.

Tim Fulton 2:18Yeah.

Hope Madden 2:18Um, you know, there was a lot of buzz about it, and it, the, the storyline appeals to me because I prefer villains. So I liked this idea, but it was just a train wreck. It was god-awful. Um, and it had a huge opening weekend, but it trailed off in a big way after that. So I think it also didn't really, uh, perform as well as, as, as expected.

Tim Fulton 2:41Now, from what I've read, the composition really is what killed it.

Hope Madden 2:45You know what? Yes, but I, I don't think there was anything about it that was particularly good. And I think it was, um, the, the, it was a mismatch between tone and director. David Ayer directed it, and his films have been solid, but certainly they have zero humor about them, and I think trying to wedge humor into this film was maybe more than, than he could do. But I also think it was miscast and ridiculously written. And it suffered from, I think, a lot of superhero movies try to just wedge too many characters into one film, and this certainly did that.

Tim Fulton 3:19Well, these days.

Hope Madden 3:20Yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:20Let's continue with the negative. What, what else was bad?

Hope Madden 3:23Uh, a lot of the great big ones, a lot of the sequels too. Oh my God, Independence Day. We needed a sequel to that? We totally did not. We absolutely did not. And, and I think all humans agree with me 'cause nobody saw it. It was the, like, the, I think the biggest ticket bomb of the year.

Tim Fulton 3:37Well, if it had been good, it is the optimal sort of time for it to come out, 'cause what was it? It was 20 years ago?

Hope Madden 3:44It was 20 years ago. Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 3:45So it was 20 years ago. I remember when the first film came out.

Hope Madden 3:48I do too.

Tim Fulton 3:49I now have a daughter who's slightly too young to, to go see that, but if it had been good, it would've been a, a family affair and something that people would've enjoyed.

Hope Madden 3:59If it, if it had been good, I would have been shocked because the first one was bad.

Tim Fulton 4:05Well-

Hope Madden 4:05It was bad

Tim Fulton 4:06... okay. But it carries with it so many reference points.

Hope Madden 4:14Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 4:14Like the speech by Bill Pullman as president sort of-

Hope Madden 4:17Which they just pimped again in the sequel.

Tim Fulton 4:19They did?

Hope Madden 4:19Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 4:19Of course they did.

Hope Madden 4:20Yes. I know. That was probably the, you know, the, like, the most heartfelt, like, energizing moment of the original, and, and that's kinda the thing. Roland Emmerich directed it. He's, God, he's terrible. He's just terrible. He's just nothing but bombast.

Tim Fulton 4:32What other films is he known for?

Hope Madden 4:342012, he made about the end of the world with John Cusack.

Tim Fulton 4:37Okay.

Hope Madden 4:38Um, he makes a lot of-

Tim Fulton 4:39John Cusack fulfilling a contract film.

Hope Madden 4:41Yes, exactly.

Tim Fulton 4:41Great.

Hope Madden 4:41Yeah. Uh, so it was, it was a lot of just, uh, pimping the few things that did work or were memorable from the first one, and I was sad to see Jeff Goldblum in it, although I don't know how you make it without him, but he's had such a-

Tim Fulton 4:52Well, they made it without Will Smith as well.

Hope Madden 4:54Well, Will Smith is, he was busy making another god-awful summer- ... blockbuster, so

Tim Fulton 5:00That was the aforementioned Suicide Squad.

Hope Madden 5:02Indeed.

Tim Fulton 5:03What else should be avoided? Anything else? What else may people say, "Oh, that's something that I would like to check out at some point," and it's just not worth the time?

Hope Madden 5:13I think the one I was kind of saddest about was, um, X-Men: Apocalypse.

Tim Fulton 5:18Okay.

Hope Madden 5:19Because the, the last two X-Men, where they kinda bring the generations together and they have this insane cast, right? Jennifer Lawrence and Michael Fassbender, and then, and then for this one they brought in Oscar Isaac, who for my money is, is maybe among the top three or four best actors working today.

Tim Fulton 5:34What else is he known for?

Hope Madden 5:36He was, he was inside Llewyn Davis. He played Llewyn Davis, but then he-

Tim Fulton 5:39Okay

Hope Madden 5:39... also should have won an Oscar, if not been nominated, for Ex Machina last year.

Tim Fulton 5:43Yes.

Hope Madden 5:43He was crazy great in that movie, and, um, I, and I'm kinda, it's bittersweet to me that when, when a, a giant blockbuster, especially superhero-type film, they, I mean, they, they stock with these great Oscar-worthy actors, and then in his case they just, they just layer him up with makeup. You can't, you can't even tell it's him.

Tim Fulton 6:03Right.

Hope Madden 6:03You know, he's got, like, a vibraphone thing going on, and you can't- ... hear that it's him, and then you waste all of this great talent just sort of rubbing their heads and, you know, "I'm, I'm picking up a signal," or, or, you know, just raising their arms so rocks fly around, and you think, "Oh my God, i- are there no lines worthy of these people?" But I, I really loved the last two. Um, I thought that they were very clever, um, and fun. I thought they were a lot of fun. Uh, but Bryan Singer took this one back over and went back to, I think, just the sort of rote X-Men formula, which wasted a great cast, and wound up just being so boring comparatively. You know, we, we'd gotten used to seeing these people do interesting, funny, clever things, and now they're just back to, yeah, raising rocks with their hands and making faces, and it was i- and a huge waste of Oscar Isaac, I thought.

Tim Fulton 6:53So what are the... Are there gems that people can pull out of this summer that they, that people can seek out, or-

Hope Madden 6:59You know, it, it-

Tim Fulton 7:00... or is it just, you know, it's time to go back to the Netflix queue at this point?

Hope Madden 7:04There's some great stuff on Netflix, actually. There have been a lot of really great small films-

Tim Fulton 7:08Okay

Hope Madden 7:08... that came out this year. But in terms of, of the blockbusters, I thought the Jason Bourne movie was, was fun and, and good. Uh, uh, Paul Greengrass came back as well, as obviously Matt Damon, and, you know, they, it's just a good sort of taut, solid action thriller. And, um, I liked the new Star Trek.

Tim Fulton 7:24Okay.

Hope Madden 7:24And Idris Elba plays the villain, and is another just, just spectacular actor who they, you can't tell it's him because he's got so much makeup on and he's got the voice modulator and, and it's kind of a waste, I think.

Tim Fulton 7:34Well, I was about to ask what, is it an American dialect, or is it, uh, his true British dialect?

Hope Madden 7:38Um, it's kind of neither. It's-

Tim Fulton 7:40Okay

Hope Madden 7:40... you know. But it's a fun movie. Uh, it's not a great movie, but I think it's the one, since they rebooted, that seems the most comfortable being Star Trek.

Tim Fulton 7:50Okay.

Hope Madden 7:51It's the Star Trek-iest, I think.

Tim Fulton 7:53Okay.

Hope Madden 7:53It's so fun. But, you know, other than that, you know, I think a lot of the big-ticket films have been, um, disappointments. I enjoyed Ghostbusters. I didn't love it.

Tim Fulton 8:03Okay.

Hope Madden 8:03But it was a financial disappointment, which I think is unfortunate. Um, but, uh, some smaller movies. Hell or High Water is out right now. I encourage all humans to go see that movie. It's, it's insanely good. It's insanely good.

Tim Fulton 8:15What is the premise of that film?

Hope Madden 8:17Uh, it's Chris Pine, again.

Tim Fulton 8:18Okay.

Hope Madden 8:19Uh, and also, um, Ben Foster, who's one of the greatest, uh, character actors working, and also Jeff Bridges, who's Jeff Bridges, so you can't go wrong there. And it's, it's a modern-day kinda bank robbery Western sort of-

Tim Fulton 8:31Okay

Hope Madden 8:31... thing going on, and it feels very familiar, but they really use that to their advantage. It's one of the best written, directed, acted, and photographed films I've s- it's certainly that I've seen this year.

Tim Fulton 8:41How did you get into reviewing films?

Hope Madden 8:43A long time ago, the other paper, God rest its soul-

Tim Fulton 8:46Yes

Hope Madden 8:47... uh, was looking for freelance film critics, and so I just, um... I'm just a movie nerd, and have always been, and so I just sent them a sample and they hired me. So that was 2000, so I've been do- and then I was their film critic until they went under-

Tim Fulton 9:01Uh-huh

Hope Madden 9:01... and then, uh, jumped over to Columbus Underground then, so I've been there for, like, three and a half, four years.

Tim Fulton 9:06Okay. How do you review a film? When you go in, are you, you do some research on the plot and the press that's come out for it ahead of time?

Hope Madden 9:14I try not to.

Tim Fulton 9:15Okay.

Hope Madden 9:16That can be hard, because Columbus doesn't always get films really early.

Tim Fulton 9:20Right.

Hope Madden 9:20Um, and so sometimes it's hard to avoid it. But if, if at all possible, I try to know as little as I can when I go see it. And then there are certain times where I don't know a single thing about it before I see it, which is the best. Um, and so I, I always try to give as little plot in a review as possible, because I'd like for all audiences to have that same amazing feeling of having no idea what's gonna happen.

Tim Fulton 9:42Okay.

Hope Madden 9:43But at the same time, if it's, let's say, The Mechanic: Resurrection, I would let you know that this is a dumpster fire and so probably you don't wanna go see it.

Tim Fulton 9:52So you view your role of simply saying, "Hey, this is good. You should see it," or, "No, you shouldn't see it, and these are the reasons why that is true."

Hope Madden 10:00Yes. So I'm, yeah, sort of a helper. Uh-

Tim Fulton 10:03Okay

Hope Madden 10:04... because, you know, movies are very expensive and there are a lot of different ways to see them, and so it's just the idea of should you spend 12 bucks to see this in IMAX 3D, or should you just, you know, wait, and maybe it doesn't need to be seen? S- uh, that's more or less how I see it.

Tim Fulton 10:19What do you wish the film industry were doing more of? You had talked about the film Ex Machina, which is, it, it is awesome.

Hope Madden 10:27It is.

Tim Fulton 10:27I don't think we should talk about the plot at all.

Hope Madden 10:29No.

Tim Fulton 10:29And I think people should just go see it.

Hope Madden 10:30Absolutely.

Tim Fulton 10:31Or, or just see it. What do you wish the film industry was doing more of? What is the current sort of state of affairs? Is the film industry not doing the task that it should be doing?

Hope Madden 10:42You know, I think that they have tremendous competition, you know, with streaming, and also Netflix, but just VOD. Uh, a lot of really excellent films are released to theaters and to VOD simultaneously. And, and, um, in those instances, y- you know, I, I understand that cinemas have to create a reason for people to want to come and see it, which is why so much 3D and so much IMAX, you know, i- it has to be... But at the same time, then, you are investing, you know, $200 million in a film under the assumption that that film can make that money back and then some. So a- a- as opposed to making something like Hell or High Water or, you know, a film that comes out this weekend which is also really great, which is called Don't Breathe. Um, it's a, it's a horror film. A- and those horror films just make money, you know? They, they cost very little to make. They have a built-in crowd, and then they also have built-in crowd on Netflix and VOD, so they make a lot of money, and so y- most of them aren't good, although horror is my sweetheart, but I mean most of them are not very good. So when you see one that is very good, and this is very good, um, you see an excellent reason to go, to go see it in a big, dark theater, to go see it with a crowd. And I feel like, you know, I don't have any easy answers for cinemas who are trying to pack these houses full of-

Tim Fulton 11:56Well, and we're talking about two different things, right?

Hope Madden 11:57Yeah, what should Hollywood be doing.

Tim Fulton 11:59It's both Hollywood and then it's, you know, the AMCs and the Cinemarks of the world sort of, you know, making choices about what gets shown there. Are cinemas specifically doing a disservice by sort of packing ev- 18 of the 24 screens with the big blockbusters, and then, you know, there's the family movie and the films that fit the other demographic niches that they're trying to, are they doing it wrong or are they just sort of serving up w- you know, the sausage-

Hope Madden 12:28Like they-

Tim Fulton 12:28... the sausage that's being made?

Hope Madden 12:29Yes. I think that's exactly... Well, I, I mean, I think they're picking and choosing based on what they think people will come to. So actually, I think you're gonna see more films that are aimed at an older audience. Uh, about every August, right, Meryl Streep comes out with a comedy, right? And that's to, y- you know, you're, you're counter-programming against superhero movies for an audience of usually, like, women over 50 who are probably not gonna stream and who are probably not gonna go see Batman v Superman, which is just good thinking. And instead, you know, they're gonna go see Meryl Streep, and in this case it's Florence Foster Jenkins, which is not a great movie, but was a very fun movie.

Tim Fulton 13:04Okay.

Hope Madden 13:04And, um, and, and so I think that that's what you find is that, you know, I don't think they have much choice when it comes to the big blockbusters. Plus, you, they do make money on those opening weekend, if nothing else, but usually they're stuck with them for at least three weeks. And then, uh, for everybody who's not gonna go see that, then I think they, they fill the rest of their 12 screens with, um... A- and I think you are gonna see, especially because most cinemas now also have a bar-

Tim Fulton 13:27Uh-huh

Hope Madden 13:27... and so older people, uh, adults, but I don't even mean, like, 21-year-olds, I mean, like, middle-aged people can come in and have a craft beer and a wine and sit down and watch, you know, Meryl Streep. Uh, uh, so I think that more films will be c- crafted to cater to that audience. And, and then I also think that, and real true independents are, are going to just go the way of VOD. I mean, they'll, they'll get what distribution they can get, but they're, they're gonna make their money on, on streaming.

Tim Fulton 13:55'Cause they'll s- continue to do, you know, the film festival circuit-

Hope Madden 13:58Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 13:58... and then they're, they'll choose a date in the fall, they'll do a limited release so that then they become award eligible-

Hope Madden 14:06Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 14:06... uh, but they will be video on demand-

Hope Madden 14:08Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 14:09... at that point.

Hope Madden 14:09Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:10I think maybe you're skipping over an elephant in the room with studios and cinemas sort of catering to an older audience. It's because those older audiences don't stream-

Hope Madden 14:19Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 14:20... and also because those younger audiences don't necessarily want to spend $12 to go see a film when they can get it online or view it online.

Hope Madden 14:31Exactly.

Tim Fulton 14:31And they don't, they don't see a value in that viewing experience.

Hope Madden 14:36Oh, yeah, no, I think that's exactly correct. It's, it's much more convenient to just dial it up whenever you want to, and if it isn't something that is, you know, full of explosions and 3D that you feel like, "Oh, I need to see this on a big screen," then you just go with what's convenient, which is watching it whenever you want to at your house.

Tim Fulton 14:50But you think that younger audiences do see a value in f- films that are, quote-unquote, "meant to be seen on a big screen", like something with explosions, like Star Trek, will continue to draw an audience, even a younger audience?

Hope Madden 15:03I think yes and no. I think, uh, what's happening is that, is that Hollywood is trying to go for safe bets with a v- a lot of superhero, too many superhero movies, and a lot of sequels, and they're not, um... You know, The Revenant came out awards season last year. It was a $110 million independent, right, western, two and a half hours long. Nobody thought it was gonna make a dollar, right? Uh, they just thought it was gonna get Leonardo DiCaprio a, an Oscar, which of course it did, but it also made a ton of money. It made a ton of money, uh, because people went to see it, against all odds, because it was a great film and it was absolutely epic to see it on a big screen. It would've been wasted, you know, to go through that grueling endurance test on, like, your laptop. That would've sucked. So I, I, I, you know, I, I would love if... I mean, I like superhero movies, you know, and I, I like action films and, and, uh, but I would love it if we didn't have nothing but that. And, you know, the, we kicked off the summer with a sequel to Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland, and it was a catastrophic bomb. Nobody wanted to see it. The first one isn't that well remembered. I can't believe it made money in the first place, and nobody even knew you could have a sequel to Alice in Wonderland, right?

Tim Fulton 16:11Right.

Hope Madden 16:11And they actually based it on one of Lewis Carroll's most obscure, hard-to-follow texts which didn't transfer to the cinema very well. Anyway, I, I, I think that they're, um, just... And I'm not obviously a lone voice here. They're just grasping for straws. They're clearly ma- It's just clearly a cash grab, and there's nothing much of relevance to what they're doing, which is one of the reasons that the last two X-Men were so interesting, because they were interesting.

Tim Fulton 16:34Right.

Hope Madden 16:35Um, and then they just went back to the same old, same old with this one, and you just think w- you know, what is Michael Fassbender doing in this movie? You know, although Jungle Book was awesome. Um, and I was surprised 'cause I, I, I really like the Disney, you know, c- cartoon movie, and I thought, "Ugh, this is gonna be..." But they, they took advantage of the big screen, a darkened theater. They made it, like, an experience-

Tim Fulton 17:00And the technology available

Hope Madden 17:01... absolutely, yes.

Tim Fulton 17:02Right.

Hope Madden 17:02And they made an experience that, that made it worth seeing while it was in a theater, 'cause it's one of the few films where I think, "I don't know that I wanna see it on TV." Like, I, I don't know that I want to. It's not gonna look as great. It's not gonna sound as great.

Tim Fulton 17:13Right. Anything else that's good this summer?

Hope Madden 17:16Sausage Party was good.

Tim Fulton 17:18I just read the review on your site.

Hope Madden 17:20It was. It was funny. It was, it was, um, like Toy Story- ... but with foodstuffs and a hard R rating.

Tim Fulton 17:27I think the only sort of criticism that you guys brought was that it employs r- racial stereotypes, but also that it sort of uses them-

Hope Madden 17:34Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 17:34... in order to demonstrate some allegories about faith-

Hope Madden 17:37Yes

Tim Fulton 17:37... um, and, you know, what people perceive.

Hope Madden 17:40Yes. Yeah. And, and I think some of them, some of them came off better than others did. Some of the stereotypes that they use I think came off feeling not well-handled, whereas others I f- felt like made the point they were trying to make. But on the whole... And it, and it's interesting because it's, it, the, the film is absolutely about faith. Like, it's a very, it's, it's, it's adult because for one thing there's a giant food orgy that goes on for a really long time, like a really uncomfortably long time. But, but also because the, the content is basically, you know, atheism versus dogmatic faith, and it's- Set in a grocery store where all these different food stuffs are... It's, it's fascinating and really well-written and very clever.

Tim Fulton 18:20Great. Can you talk a little bit about, um, sort of where Columbus sits in the landscape for viewers? We have, you know, a couple of, uh, megaplexes.

Hope Madden 18:30Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 18:31Um, we have a couple of art house theaters.

Hope Madden 18:34Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 18:34How do you sort of view it here?

Hope Madden 18:36I feel really fortunate actually to, to be here as a, a movie lover. You know, because we do have the big giant AMC Theaters, which for example will have, um, you know, films that come in nobody else is going to get that are weirdly commercial. So for example, Rob Zombie has a new movie coming out. It has an 11 Metacritic score, so it's gonna be the worst movie ever. And, but it's only gonna play one night and it's gonna play at AMC Easton in Lennox. So I'm very excited 'cause I'm gonna go see it. Whereas on the other hand, you know, you got the Wexner Center that brings in these crazy eclectic, brilliant films and filmmakers, you know. Um, and then the Gateway Film Center that does, uh, a nice mix of, you know, blockbusters and also independent films. They have the best horror lineup anybody's ever gonna find. They have documentaries in there all the time, uh, and they, they swap things out very quickly. You have to sort of stay on your toes to get there. Whatever your taste is, you can find it in Columbus, and I don't think a lot of people realize that. I mean, people realize, I think, that Columbus is a great place for entertainment, for food certainly, that it is a, you know, establishing itself as a genuine metropolitan area, but I think that people don't realize what a great place it is to see films.

Tim Fulton 19:47Great. Hope, thank you so much for your time.

Hope Madden 19:49Sure.

Tim Fulton 19:53As a high school student in Columbus, Ohio, I was aware that the coolest place that you could be is any event DJ'd by Mr. John Dee. That was you. Is you.

John Dougherty 20:07That was.

Tim Fulton 20:08Is you.

John Dougherty 20:08That was me. That was me at one point.

Tim Fulton 20:11Talk about your background before the Film Commission.

John Dougherty 20:15I was a DJ.

Tim Fulton 20:17Is that it?

John Dougherty 20:18That's it. No. Um, uh, I had, uh, going back to high school, I was always interested in art and had always been a, a film buff my whole life. And I, uh, started freelancing out of college, started freelancing doing design work, and started at a company that's still in town called Live Technologies, and, um, was, uh, doing design work for them and web, web development, whatnot. And they eventually started a video, uh, department in their company, and they asked if anyone would be interested in being part of that. I raised my hand, and that's how I got into the whole video part of it. Enjoyed it and, a- and loved editing and loved the creative process of it. So that's where it all really started. Uh, did that for a few years. Then, uh, just wanted to be more creative and break out, out on my own with some friends and started a production company here in town, which is still here, called Vital. Just did that for a few years and became a member of the board of the Film Commission.

Tim Fulton 21:23And you, before becoming the executive director, started, helped to start the, the Film Festival of Columbus.

John Dougherty 21:30Yes. Uh, it's, uh, Film Festival of Columbus. Uh, acronym is FFOCOL, so we call it FFOL. And, uh, we started that five years ago. We started talking about that many years ago, and we started talking about that before I was even part of the, uh, uh, Greater Columbus Film Commission board. 'Cause we were always talking about how can we get more films to come to Columbus and shoot. And our whole idea was, okay, so if we could get a film festival started, let's invite the directors of these films, up-and-coming directors, to come and visit Columbus and central Ohio and have them look around. We'll show them around. It's a great city. Then maybe they'll wanna come here and shoot a film. So that was our whole impetus behind the film festival.

Tim Fulton 22:20And so talk a little bit about, for those that aren't aware, what specifically the, the Film Commission does.

John Dougherty 22:27So the Film Commission, basically what we're here to do is promote Columbus and central Ohio as a filmmaking destination. So when a film is looking around Ohio, we could possibly bring in a director, producer to look around, show them what central Ohio has to offer, show them what kind of locations we have, and hopefully they would decide to come and film here. And then once, if they do decide to come here, our biggest job is then to facilitate conversations between the production and the city. For example, permits and permitting and, and street closures and that sort of thing. So, so we're, we're here to facilitate all those conversations and to try and make their life as easy as possible while they're here filming.

Tim Fulton 23:10I think sometimes there are some in the, um, I don't wanna demean it, but amateur filmmaking community in Columbus that looks at the Greater Columbus Film Commission and says, "Well, why aren't they helping to facilitate the work that, that we do?" How would you address that?

John Dougherty 23:26I... That's a r- really good question, and it's sometimes a t- a tough question to answer. Uh, we did a film summit last June. We're talking about the film industry in Columbus, and what we learned last year was a lot of people thought that the Film Commission was here to fund films, which is not what we do.

Tim Fulton 23:45You don't have the money for that.

John Dougherty 23:46We-

Tim Fulton 23:46Right.

John Dougherty 23:46We don't have the money to do that. We don't have the money to pay whatever. So anyway, um, yeah, we, we don't fund films. But there is, there's other organizations in town that we try to partner with. For example, the Mid-Ohio Filmmakers Association, which is kind of that liaison or hopes to be the liaison between the amateur filmmaker and people who are coming up and really wanna make this a, a career. So, uh, these organizations that sit in the middle, we try to work with them and, and, and, and try to provide programs for them to, to facilitate the learning of filmmaking.

Tim Fulton 24:25That's awesome. We also, in Ohio, uh, have the virtue of having a tax incentive for filmmakers that come in. Uh, that is a l- a law that is sort of trying to be rewor- or a budget line item that's being reworked at this point. Um, what's the current landscape that we sit in, uh, with the tax incentive?

John Dougherty 24:47So there's a, a current tax incentive which calls for, uh, $20 million a year. It's a pot of money, $20 million, for the whole state, and Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton. If a film wants to come into Ohio and shoot, and they qualify for this tax credit, they can get up to 30% of that back. But we all ha- as a state have to share that. As of fiscal year 2016, which would've been July 1 of 2015, we used that tax credit up within three months, and that had never been done before. So what that shows is there's a lot of interest in films coming to Ohio to shoot, and utilize crew, and be here in Ohio, and shoot here.

Tim Fulton 25:36Columbus, though, is at a deficit as related to Cleveland, Cleveland specifically, but also to Cincinnati, in terms of the resources that we have available and what, basically, our ability to take advantage of that tax incentive. What can we do in Columbus to help build it up?

John Dougherty 25:56Yeah, so the, the, the biggest disadvantage that we have is infrastructure, crew. We don't have the crew here. It's the old chicken and the egg thing. The productions aren't here because the crew's not here. The crew is not here because the productions aren't here. So we've been fighting that for a few years. W- when I took over about a year ago, what my idea was, "Hey, let's focus on these smaller films, the $1 million to $3 million film. Try and attract them to come here." And at that level film, producers and filmmakers realize they're not gonna get A-list crew, and they're gonna be able to, you know, pick and choose some of the crew people that don't have a lot of, uh, experience, but they can train. So it's gonna take a while for us to build that up. We're definitely behind Cleveland and Cincinnati. Cleveland's been around, they've been doing this for many years, 10, 15 years. They're 10, 15 years ahead of us. So we're, uh, w- we're behind the, the, the eight ball on that, but we're, we're trying and, um, I think we can do it. It's just a slow, steady progress of smaller films, and I think that's, that's where our sweet spot is.

Tim Fulton 27:05I guess my immediate thought is that that deficit then translates to the production, to an extent. I think it's fair to say that that... You're asking somebody to come in and work with a crew that they're gonna have to train a little bit, you know? What else can we offer beyond the crew to sort of say, "But you should come here. You should come to Columbus specifically"?

John Dougherty 27:26Y- y- you know, uh, we've had over the past year and a half, we've flown in a couple production crews and, and directors and, and once we get them here, it's, it's, it's a somewhat easier sell because they see the level of collaboration that the city has. It's amazing how the mayor's office will step up, and Parks and Rec will step up when we want help and we need help. I mean, I, I've got plenty of stories from the past, from the Travolta film and the Schwarzenegger film that were just here. When they called us, and literally within a half an hour we solved a problem for them. They were like, "We can't... W- we don't know what to do." They said, "We could get into this cemetery to shoot, now we can't." And I work really closely with GCAC, the Greater Columbus Arts Council. Knowing them and all the connections that we have, the collaboration that can happen in this city really quickly is, is pretty amazing. And we've had, after films have left or after they're, they're done shooting, the UP- the unit production manager and the line producer, they usually stick around for a month or so after the film's over just to wrap things up, and we've always had a meeting with them to find out what we did wrong, what we did right. And they've all said, by far, this city is near the top of collaboration with them, and, and the city officials, and mayor's office, in getting things done in the city.

Tim Fulton 28:58That's great to hear. I think we, you, us, we just need to do a better job of sort of communicating that, I guess. How can the people here, the people that are watching, be better ambassadors for you to get your job done?

John Dougherty 29:10You know, I mean, we've talked about this. We talked about it last year. It's like creating a culture of support for film. I think, uh, I said this a, a year ago also, was I think film in Columbus needs to be embraced more than it currently is. Um, we tout Columbus as an art city, and it really is. I think we could step up as far as film goes. Um, we need to realize that film can be a real industry and a big job creator in this town. And, um, we're working on a, on a few things that, that can hopefully bring jobs and, and sustainable jobs. The thing about the tax credit is, with a lot of states, people will come in, use their tax credit, and then they leave. So we don't wanna see that. We wanna see brick-and-mortar companies stay in Ohio and employ people in Ohio year-round, and really create an industry that, that kinda doesn't exist right now.

Tim Fulton 30:11What, what are the tangible things, though? Is it going to Focal? Is it... Where can dollars be spent more that are, that, that reflect our interests?

John Dougherty 30:22A key... Yes, going to the film festivals and supporting independent cinema for sure. Of course, we all love to go to AMC. My wife and I went to AMC the other night to see Jungle Book, but Um, you know, but try to go to Gateway, try to go to Studio 35 and Drexel and those independent cinemas and support them and, you know, be, be open to, believe it or not, if films come into town and they want to come in your neighborhood and shoot, be open to that. Of course, it's gonna be a pain in the ass sometimes, but it's, it's really good for the city.

Tim Fulton 30:54Well, and to be clear, though, that, the way that permitting happens is they have to go around to property owners and get them to sign off on, "Yes, it's cool if my street is closed."

John Dougherty 31:03Right.

Tim Fulton 31:03And so be open to that and be open to the idea that, you know, maybe for three nights, this one night in the middle of July, or three nights in the middle of July, you're not, you have to park around the corner and not, you know, right in front of your house or in your garage.

John Dougherty 31:20Yeah, and there's, I mean, I, I'm not one to try and compare us to other cities or whatever. I usually don't like to do that. But for example, in Austin, when people are shooting, people will, can walk into a restaurant and say, "Hey, we wanna shoot here tomorrow night. It's an independent film. We don't have any money. Can we come in and shoot? There's gonna be four of us in here." They're like, "Sure, go ahead." Around here, sometimes it'll be like the first thing out of the, the restaurant's mouth is, "Well, h- what's in it for us? How much, how much money are you gonna pay me?" Just be, just kinda be open to that and, and try your best to, to, to think of the bigger picture.

Tim Fulton 31:56I just, I, it's an interesting dichotomy seeing how much people are willing to collaborate and how much the question is, is what's in it for them.

John Dougherty 32:04Right.

Tim Fulton 32:04You know what I mean? And so as a, you know, armchair economist, I guess I think what, what per- what incentives can be provided, and is there more that can be done? And I, I think that that's not a question, it's open-ended really.

John Dougherty 32:19Sure. When films come to town, it is, it's great. It's kind of, quote-unquote, "sexy" or whatever, and it's, and a lot of times it's a fucking pain in the ass too. But, uh, it really is, it's an economic development question, and it really puts people to work. And it's a huge ripple effect of, you know, restaurants and hotels and dry cleaners and transportation, and it really is a ripple effect. And there are plenty of studies out there that show that it's really good for the economy. So I, I just, I wanna see that happen here, and I wanna see those jobs stay here and live here. And I wanna put, you know, I know a lot of people who wanna be in the film industry, and there's a lot of people who are out of town from LA and Louisiana and Atlanta who wanna move back home to Columbus because they don't wanna live there and they wanna come back here and work. And if we can create that industry, they're gonna move back here. And same thing with, with students, you know, who think when they get out of school, "I gotta go to w- West Coast or East Coast to, to have a job." Maybe they don't have to. Maybe they can stay here and work here.

Tim Fulton 33:25Well, no, absolutely. There's a reason why the phrase is attract and retain. So ladies and gentlemen, please thank John Dougherty.

John Dougherty 33:34Thank you very much. Thanks.

Tim Fulton 33:50Thank you so much for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on the films that Hope recommends and on the Columbus Film Commission in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, your family, contacts, your enemies, your friendly neighborhood filmmaker. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I am your host, Tim Fulton. Have a good week.