Independents’ Day

Tim Fulton 0:06Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focused on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I am your host, Tim Fulton. This week, we have a conversation with just two of the many people that put on the Independence Day Festival, which is coming up on September 17th and 18th in Franklinton. We speak with this year's festival captain, Patrick Losey, and the festival's artistic director, Adam Burlett. Independence Day, to be clear, is not Independence N-C-E. It is Independence N-T-S'- Day. Uh, Independence Day is, on its surface, a typical festival. They have beer, they have bands, they have vendors, uh, but it's also not what you would expect. From a Tron bike ride to a pinata Thunderdome, the festival embraces whatever people want to bring to it, whatever the independent people and organizations of Columbus wanna bring to it. As Patrick puts it in the interview, it's the output of every single person's input. We delve deep into how a group of people that are dedicated to making Columbus awesome founded the festival. We talk about the festival's evolution, the growing pains and pleasures of starting something like this in Columbus. Uh, we talk about what's new this year, the logistics of putting something like this together, and in the end, we talk about the payoff for it. In short, why they do this. You can get more information on Independence Day and the other things that we discuss in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Today's episode is sponsored by Best Bites Burgers. Coming up on October 13th, the event is your opportunity to taste the best burgers Columbus has to offer. Tickets for the event include burger samples from over a dozen Columbus restaurants. You can purchase tickets at Best Bites. That's B-E-S-T-B-I-T dot E-S. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down with Patrick Losey, this year's captain for Independence Day, and Adam Burlett, a founder, the board chair, and the artistic director of Independence Day. How are you, gentlemen?

Patrick Losey 2:35Good, Tim.

Adam Burlett 2:35Very well.

Tim Fulton 2:36First of all, Independence Day is coming up September 17th and 18th in Franklinton, right outside of what most people are familiar with as 400 West Rich, and sort of the streets and alleys surrounding it. Adam, what year are we in? How long have we been doing this?

Adam Burlett 2:51This is the ninth year.

Tim Fulton 2:52The ninth year. It's been that long?

Adam Burlett 2:54Yes.

Tim Fulton 2:55Okay.

Adam Burlett 2:55It has been that long.

Tim Fulton 2:56All right. Originally held between, uh, North High Street and North Third Street, downtown on Gay. Um, talk about, Adam, first of all, how the festival got started.

Adam Burlett 3:09I think depending on who you ask, you're gonna get a very different answer. Um, it kind of is a bunch of things, and I think the one thing that everybody can agree on is that Mike Brown from, uh, who at the time worked for, uh, the mayor's office, now works with Experience Columbus, and several other people, including Chuck Hootman, who, uh, at the time was with Tip-Top, um, and several other people started talking about having a block party downtown. Um, that conversation kind of led to Mike approaching the Couch Fire Collective, which was running Agora, uh, in Grandview, as, like, a team to come and help put it on.

Tim Fulton 3:46And so just for people that don't have the background, uh, Couch Fire was an artist collective.

Adam Burlett 3:51Correct.

Tim Fulton 3:52Agora was a semi-annual event-

Adam Burlett 3:55Correct

Tim Fulton 3:55... that occurred at-

Adam Burlett 3:57Junction View Studios

Tim Fulton 3:57... at Junction View Studios.

Adam Burlett 3:59Which was the building, right?

Tim Fulton 3:59Which was the building.

Adam Burlett 4:01Right.

Tim Fulton 4:01That building is no longer there.

Adam Burlett 4:03Right.

Tim Fulton 4:03It's where currently, uh, Grandview Yard is.

Adam Burlett 4:06Correct.

Tim Fulton 4:06Just to give all the background, you then transitioned into a artist studio and gallery space called Taco Cat.

Adam Burlett 4:14Correct.

Tim Fulton 4:14That you've now vacated, and you're quickly moving to open Block Fort-

Adam Burlett 4:20Correct

Tim Fulton 4:21... uh, here where we're recording today.

Adam Burlett 4:23Correct.

Tim Fulton 4:24Um, so those groups got together. Those individuals got together.

Adam Burlett 4:27Right. And then there were other g- um, groups that got brought in. Andrew Dodson, who was working with Central City Recording, um, Erin Moore and, uh, her team with the Columbus Music Co-op. Um, it was just sort of like a, "Hey, who's doing cool things in town? Let's throw a party." And the first year was really that. It was, like, me with my credit card and, you know, some $1,500 and, uh, the, the Couch Fire Collective team running volunteers and, and making sure the drinks got poured and stuff like that. And Dodson and his team helped with the music, and the, uh, Columbus Music Co-op helped us find bands. And the first one went off just like you would expect. It was a, you know, a s- a street, s- a block party, street party. And, uh, so even though that was called Independence Day and that's h- where it started and how we got our footing-

Tim Fulton 5:17And also for those that aren't familiar, it's Independence Day, N-T-S'-

Adam Burlett 5:22Correct

Tim Fulton 5:23... not N-C-E.

Adam Burlett 5:24Correct. And that-

Tim Fulton 5:25Not, not the independence of our nation, uh, but a collection of independent people.

Adam Burlett 5:30Correct. And I think that that was, like, the original premise of the thing was, like, how can we get all these cool individual things that are happening around town all to happen on the same day, on the same weekend, share crowds, get people together? So that, that basic premise of what Independence Day is is still very, very much a part of the festival. It's just we've become a much stronger magnet for all the independent things that are happening, and now those, uh, those small chunks are starting to make big chunks, and the city is becoming more self-aware of all the small chunks that are happening. And- As it grows, it, it changes. So by, really by year two, Couchfire Collective was sort of waning. I, I was doing a lot of the work pretty much by myself, um, the second year, and I ended up partnering with Wolf Starr. Um, he ran a big portion of it. Alexis Perrone and Aaron Corrigan came in and, uh, started running volunteer activities. Um, by then our, our community had started becoming more aware of things like food trucks and, uh, you know, the different music groups that were happening in town. So a lot of those groups started participating, and our, our flyer started looking more like a, instead of a list of bands that are gonna play, but more of a collection of like interesting things that happen in town. Then really by like year three and four is I think when we went through like sort of a weird growing pains where Couchfire Collective was almost completely out of it. There was a team running Independence Day that was m- more who runs it now, or at least the leadership team, where, uh, Alexis and Aaron and myself and Andrew Dodson and Wolf sort of made up this core body. Jacob Wooten was involved. Um, and as, as people were sort of brought into that, that team, um, there was sort of a growing pains. Like do we wanna be a, an actual organization or is this just a block party we throw once a year? And probably I think it was at the fourth year we had our first, uh, retreat, and we went out and the leadership organizing team got a cabin in the middle of January and went out to the woods and started brainstorming like, how does this work? How do... You know, what do we wanna be? How do we wanna grow? And we started making decisions like, uh, rotating leadership every year, bringing in a new captain, fostering young talent, trying to get l- um, larger, uh, companies that wanted to support a way to do that without, um, seeming like a normal sponsorship like you would have for another festival in town. Um, how do we get creative individuals to get involved without, um, sort of stealing their talent? You know, how do we find wa- mechanisms to pay people? How do we find ways to make money for vendors? How do we find ways to involve new community aspects? And what can we do with the, the money raised? And for the first several years, we actually donated money to several nonprofits around town. As the festival grew even more though, it became more and more apparent that becoming a 501[c][3] was gonna have to be our, our direction. Um, we already had a board, you know, those, those leaders and the past captains, and, uh, we had a, a lawyer and an accountant, Alex Hasty and Aaron Pitcock respectively. Um, and then we kinda started formalizing things and started moving towards that 501[c][3], um, process. Some of that had to do with getting actual bank accounts and stop using personal accounts and starting to track where money was going and how we were spending and making-

Tim Fulton 8:51So it was pretty fast and loose at the beginning-

Adam Burlett 8:53Yeah

Tim Fulton 8:53... even for the first couple of years.

Adam Burlett 8:54Oh, very much so. It was, you know, out of pocket. It was, uh, just making stuff happen kinda thing, and then after a while it... You know, we were like, "Hey, we probably should start saving receipts," and, you know.

Tim Fulton 9:05Mm.

Adam Burlett 9:05And really f- years, I would say four, five, six, um, were about legitimizing the fest, about making sure that we were doing... You know, we were dotting I's and crossing T's.

Tim Fulton 9:16And still on Gay Street at that time.

Adam Burlett 9:18Correct. And the awesome thing that happened with the festival that was also awful, or what we thought was gonna be awful at the time, was that year six we... That neighborhood had changed so much, and six years of being down there and bringing attention to the neighborhood and working with the Downtown SID and Cleve Ricksecker and Casey Campbell, or Casey Brandkamp now.

Tim Fulton 9:37Mm-hmm.

Adam Burlett 9:37Um, you know, we were working with all of them, and all of a sudden you had hotels doing well and restaurants moving in and all the... You know, the neighborhood was full. And so those groups also were saying, "Hey, you're having a festival outside my full hotel at night. You know, this is gonna cause a problem for my business." And what we didn't wanna do was do damage to the businesses that we helped, you know, sort of bring attention to. Um, and at the same time-

Tim Fulton 10:04Didn't you also want just to get a little bit of credit for you're the reason why your ho- we are the reason why your hotel is full right now?

Adam Burlett 10:10Yeah. And, you know, I'd like to think that-

Tim Fulton 10:13Mm

Adam Burlett 10:13... the festival takes full credit for something like that, but it's not. It, it... There's the growth of the city, and i- i- as much as we are sort of a collection of people who are very dedicated to making Columbus awesome, I think that we're humble enough to know that like we're just one, one wheel in the machine. You know, w- one, one piece of the, how Columbus has grown. Um, but we made a v- had a very long and extended argument on should we move? Should we not move? Where would we go? We had several different options of places that we thought about moving, each with its own benefit and, and detractors, um-

Tim Fulton 10:46Well, and so just to get a little bit into the, the weeds on this, in order to shut down a street, you have to have, you know, a certain percentage of the property owners sign off on it.

Adam Burlett 10:56Correct.

Tim Fulton 10:56It was last year that you were there that you were... There were actually property owners that said no.

Adam Burlett 11:00Right. Yes.

Tim Fulton 11:01And you had to... And you guys still moved forward. You still did it on Gay Street that year, but had to make all these accommodations.

Adam Burlett 11:08Yes.

Tim Fulton 11:08Some of them reasonable, some of them unreasonable.

Adam Burlett 11:11Correct.

Tim Fulton 11:11You know, making the footprint smaller, uh, in order to-

Adam Burlett 11:14Changing where our routes were, making sure valet was available, making sure that the event spaces that are there had access and that we were quiet at a certain time in certain areas, making sure that the neighbors that had to get to their garage could drive right in through the middle of the festival, and we had police escorts to get them there. Making sure that the fire department was happy. Making sure that, uh, you know, all of the areas where dumpsters were weren't disrupted. And it b- it became a big deal. You know, it was like a lot of work. We had 198 signatures we used to have to get. Um, so that was a major factor when we were deciding where to go, and ultimately we ended up in Franklinton, and that choice to go to Franklinton at the time, people were like, "Are you kidding?" Like Riverside Bradley had just come down. Uh, people were afr- You know, we had people saying directly, "We are afraid of this neighborhood. It's not, you know, this is not a nice environment. How are you going from downtown with shiny buildings and nice backdrops of the Statehouse to, you know, bombed out warehouses?" And, and I don't think any of us ever saw it that way. I think- We were seeing what was happening already with 400 West Rich. The Idea Foundry was moving over there. Um, some of the, the places like, uh, the Two Deuces had turned into, uh, uh, the Rehab Tavern. And we knew that there were people that we were friends with that were working over there. Urban Scrawl had taken place, which was a fantastic event that's in its 10th year now. So, you know, we, we kinda felt like, if anything, we were riding into a, a healthy environment where artistic endeavors and creativity were already kinda taking root. And if we could help be a catalyst to that and help it grow, um, you know, work off of what they had already pioneered to do, that it would be a good scenario. We also acknowledged that to do that we were gonna have to change the organization of the festival and create more artwork, more backdrops. We're gonna have to bring more energy to the organization just because we didn't have that natural backdrop of the environment.

Tim Fulton 13:14Well, that natural footprint also.

Adam Burlett 13:16Right.

Tim Fulton 13:16Like, you're, you're filling a much larger space now.

Adam Burlett 13:18Right. So in year seven we, um, expanded our organizing team. Now we, uh, you know, not only had a captain, but we had lieutenants. Lieutenants served over volunteers in food and art and all the different a- aspects of the festival. And our team grew from being, like, a core of nine people to a core of about 20 people, um, between year seven and year eight. That changed the way we did things. We had more people, um, in terms of being able to... More bandwidth in order to watch what was happening, but we also had communication issues, and how, how do you, how do you keep everybody on the same path? Um, we had board members and lieutenants, uh, maybe on different pages in terms of, uh, you know, who, who's in s- who's in charge of, uh, keeping receipts, or who's in charge of spending the money. And we had to realize, like-

Tim Fulton 14:10Who has access to the money-

Adam Burlett 14:11Right

Tim Fulton 14:12... right?

Adam Burlett 14:12So the board, the board had to, you know, sort of by year eight put sort of a clampdown on and say, "Hey, not everybody can just run around with the car- the card and go buy supplies that we need for stuff, and we probably don't need 50 extension cords. We probably only need 20." And-

Tim Fulton 14:27Right

Adam Burlett 14:27... um, and so a lot of that had to do with process and order, and, and that... We went back to that retreat, and every year-

Tim Fulton 14:35Mm

Adam Burlett 14:35... um, that retreat ends up being sort of a reset button.

Tim Fulton 14:37Mm-hmm.

Adam Burlett 14:37And we rethink what worked, what didn't, and, um, who are the new leaders in town, who stepped up at the festival the year before, who, who should take a larger role, um, who didn't do what they were saying they would do, and how do we, how do we handle that kinda situation if somebody failed miserably. Like, yes, it'd be easy thing to say just to kick 'em aside, or you could bring them back in and, and teach them. And I think the, the board, the core board, understood that, like, in order for us to sustain the festival, that we were gonna have to become teachers, and we were gonna have to start, like, educating younger generations how something like this worked, and to eliminate, um, expectation and an entitlement. So getting people to understand, like, hey, this doesn't happen just by, you know, m- magic.

Tim Fulton 15:26Just by saying you wanna do it-

Adam Burlett 15:27Right

Tim Fulton 15:27... you actually have to do it.

Adam Burlett 15:28Right. And so we created sort of policies that the way the festival runs every year and the way that we talk about it is that the festival becomes whatever people want to bring to the festival that year. So if a fashion group comes and they say, "I wanna run a fashion show," a fashion show happens. And we find ways to enable them, to finance them, to make that sort of activity happen.

Tim Fulton 15:50And I think that that should actually be trumpeted a lot, like, that probably by year three or four is when you guys sort of said, "Yeah, we have beer and we have bands and we have some vendors and we have food, but if you wanna do something else-

Adam Burlett 16:05Right

Tim Fulton 16:05... you can do it."

Adam Burlett 16:06Right.

Tim Fulton 16:06Show up to a planning meeting, present the idea. As long as it's done in a timely manner, and you are willing to be held accountable for it happening-

Adam Burlett 16:15Yes

Tim Fulton 16:15... for making it happen.

Adam Burlett 16:17Yes. The accountability thing is a really big thing. And, and it, uh, this happens every year. We have somebody say, "Oh, there's no fashion this year." And it's like, well, nobody that wanted to run fashion showed up, so we just didn't do fashion. But somebody else showed up and said, "I wanna run a pinata Thunderdome, or a Tron bike ride," or whatever nonsense that somebody wants to come up with, and we wanna support that. We... I, I would say that our group is very good at supporting nonsense and understanding why that nonsense is valuable to the community, why having a, uh, a group of vendor tents along with a Tron bike ride or, uh, some acrobats or, uh, giant board games, why, why does that make a better festival? And I think that mixing the weird things with the things that people expect make a unique experience, make a, a more enriched experience. And it is considering both the, the audience member that's gonna come, but also the person creating it. Do they have an outlet for the thing that they wanted to try that they didn't maybe have a normal vehicle to do that? And I think that as the festival grows, there will, there will be more of that.

Tim Fulton 17:23Well, and sometimes those things don't go off. Like-

Adam Burlett 17:25True

Tim Fulton 17:25... I remember specifically the year, I think it was you, the go- like, the go-kart racing.

Adam Burlett 17:31Yes.

Tim Fulton 17:31It was fine, but it didn't, it didn't happen the way that it was expected.

Adam Burlett 17:35Right.

Tim Fulton 17:35There weren't... You know, 'cause you sort of have to get people to make go-karts and then participate.

Adam Burlett 17:40Yes. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 17:41And-

Adam Burlett 17:41And when you make go-karts out of cardboard, and then it rains, and you have soggy go-karts.

Tim Fulton 17:46I forgot about that.

Adam Burlett 17:48Yeah. So.

Tim Fulton 17:48Yeah.

Adam Burlett 17:49But yeah. I mean, that's, that's the thing. We, we figure out, um, what's the likelihood of something happening, what's the trust level that we have in somebody participating, um, and how much money should we put towards that based on those factors. Um, it helps us kind of figure out where, where are we comfortable. So if you take something like-

Tim Fulton 18:07And it's not a formal, like, grant submission process.

Adam Burlett 18:10N- no.

Tim Fulton 18:11Literally that you show up to a planning meeting early enough and say, "I wanna do this."

Adam Burlett 18:16Right. Yeah. And, and in some cases it's, um- Our leadership team finding things in the community that are happening or hearing concerns. Um, so say w- as we were moving to Franklinton, there was a big concern that kind of popped up in the community about, uh, hip hop being underrepresented at festivals around Columbus. And we have a friend, Josh Miller, who's been involved with the festival for the last three years, and we said, uh, the first year in Franklinton, "Hey, we'll give you a little soapbox. Um, you can get some MCs together, some DJs together, and just run a thing." And we don't have a lot of... I think we gave him like $150 or something, and, you know, and he put it on and did such a good job with it that the second time that he was involved, I think our whole group was like, "He is trustworthy. He is... He executes well." I mean, he's running his own festival now with 2x2 Fest. But that second year we had a whole hip hop stage, a whole hip hop area, break dancing, uh, graffiti writers on walls. Um, and then that expanded and went to the main stage, and one of our main acts last year was, uh, Soul Position. And, you know, so we had this whole kind of blend of how hip hop could be involved in the festival. And then this year we've taken that a step further and just completely integrated it into our entire stage system and said like, "Hey, we know that there are responsible members of the hip hop community," and that was a total mistake by other festivals not to include, um, people that just wanna, you know, show off the things that they do. And I think that that's the kind of awareness that our group tries to have. Um, we run into bumps with it, just like anything else. You know, every year we have somebody that's like, "Hey, dancers need a 15 foot by 24 foot stage," and we're like, "Oh, well, we have a 12 by 18. Is that gonna work?" And you balance those things out and battle back and forth and try to figure out, is it worth the extra money if we, uh, you know, have a feature that we put on and somebody says, "Oh, y- if you give me $30,000, I'll bring 100,000 people," and you know that's not gonna happen. Um, you have to kinda guess, like, how many people are they gonna be able to bring?

Tim Fulton 20:18Has that legitimately happened?

Adam Burlett 20:19Yes.

Tim Fulton 20:20Okay.

Adam Burlett 20:21No, no, uh, finger pointing, but yes, that is, uh-

Patrick Losey 20:24Yearly

Adam Burlett 20:24... l- yearly.

Patrick Losey 20:25Yeah, it does.

Tim Fulton 20:25So wait, what is the, what is the operating budget of Independence Day?

Adam Burlett 20:29From year one... I like saying it this way. From year one, was about $1,500 that we put the first year festival on.

Tim Fulton 20:35Okay.

Adam Burlett 20:36This year it'll probably s- be somewhere close to $250,000.

Tim Fulton 20:40Wow.

Adam Burlett 20:40And when we say that, people are always like, "Oh, they're rich. They have tons of money." But it doesn't really work that way. It's cops, it's toilets, it's barricades, it's street permits, it's... And all of those things, the bigger we get, the more expensive they get. So our police budget went from, like, hiring two cops the first year just to make sure that, you know, nothing happened at our little street party, to, like, having a full police presence. And, you know, lieutenants that are watching whole, you know, sections of police, and having plainclothes cops, and having security, and making sure that everybody feels safe, making sure that there's an EMS or a first aid, uh, station, making sure that we have, uh, you know, families taken care of, making sure that we're appropriately representing our sponsors, making sure that we're, you know, buying ads and y- doing all these sorts of things. So when we say that the festival's a $250,000 festival, nobody is making money. We-

Tim Fulton 21:36Right

Adam Burlett 21:37... bands are being paid to perform. Uh, you know, we do things like buy pizza for artists that are making stuff. We buy supplies for the displays that they're making. Um, we'll put a little bit of money towards things like dance groups and theater companies and stuff like that. But, like-

Tim Fulton 21:51That have production needs.

Adam Burlett 21:52Yeah.

Tim Fulton 21:52Right.

Adam Burlett 21:52But even if you think about the fact that we have, what, 96 bands or something, you... 96 bands at $50 apiece is a lot of money.

Tim Fulton 22:01Right.

Adam Burlett 22:01You know, you're already talking about huge amounts of money, and nobody's being paid a lot of money. And so w- I also like to look at other festivals and what their budgets are. I mean, I, I'm not sure exactly what ComFest is, but I'm sure it's well over a million dollars to run ComFest. I know that the, uh, Greater Columbus Arts Festival is probably well over a million dollars to run that. And not to say that we're dissatisfied with where we're at financially, but we do a lot of stuff-

Patrick Losey 22:29Mm-hmm

Adam Burlett 22:29... with not much money comparatively. And we're trying to learn from those bigger organizations and learn from ComFest and learn from, uh, the GCAC about how, how... what works, what doesn't, what's good practice, w- when is spending money on police worth it, and when is... w- should it be diverted to parking or, you know. Um, we're growing, too, so we have to, like, learn from people that have done this before.

Tim Fulton 22:53Let's talk a little bit about what the festival's gonna be this year. Patrick, what can people... We haven't really even talked about, like, what, you know, what is the experience of the festival? It is how many stages this year?

Patrick Losey 23:05Uh, this year there will be... So we're, we're in one of those, as Adam said, sort of an odd growing phase. So we have four primary stages, a handful of secondary stages, some soapbox stages. Uh, so there's ultimately, I think, eight different areas where you'll see live performances.

Tim Fulton 23:21Okay. And food?

Patrick Losey 23:23In terms of food, we will have many of your favorite food trucks represented. Um, we're working with Chaz Kaplan this year, too, again. Uh, Chaz, with his experience with the Food Truck Festival and a number of different other organizations-

Tim Fulton 23:36Mm

Patrick Losey 23:36... was willing to step in and say, "Look, there are better ways to do some of these things." And again, it's been... This is our third year in Franklinton. The first year it was, "Well, let's park some food trucks and run some really noisy generators and put them right in the middle of the street." Last year we relocated them. It was a better experience. This year we're changing things again. Uh, so 17 food trucks, six or seven mobile carts, everything from- Uh, ice cream to cupcakes and all the other things that you sort of want to see and expect to see. And it's just been some vendors that we've had great working relationships with that have almost grown with us from Gay Street and some that are brand new to Columbus.

Tim Fulton 24:12And there are artists selling wares, there are craftspeople selling wares.

Patrick Losey 24:16Correct. Yeah, the marketplace is one of those things that, uh, Adam and I have actually focused really heavily on this year in another way of bringing in new people to the community. You'll certainly see some familiar faces. Craft & Outlaws is going to have a huge presence, and Columbus Handmade. Um, organizations that have had a very long connection with the festival, but this year we're also partnering with the African Village Festival and with the city of Columbus for a Little Columbus area, um, bringing in vendors that really touch all of these different areas that make our community cool. So we're making a micro community in Franklinton for those two days. Uh, last year we had, I think it was 146 total vendors in our marketplace. This year we'll probably eclipse that.

Tim Fulton 24:53That's awesome. The zones are new this year, right?

Patrick Losey 24:56They are. The zones are, uh, as Adam had said, you know, really with those planning meetings, we went out to a cabin in the Hocking Hills and tried to understand how do we effectively organize so many people with so many skillsets that wanna do so many different things? We had a larger physical footprint. We had more to do. We also had more challenges to solve, more pieces to put together. Uh, and the zones were sort of a natural response to that. And this is the first year. It is very much an experiment, and there have been upsides and there have been significant challenges that we recognize that when we are now throwing each of those zones is probably larger than the first couple years of the festival.

Tim Fulton 25:29So to be clear what we're talking about when we say zones, there is a Sideshow Zone, a Kids Zone, a Gritty City Zone, a Retropolis, the Play Big Zone, the Fantasy & Folklore Zone. The Idea Foundry has its own zone.

Patrick Losey 25:44Yeah, it's, it's a way to... It started as how can we organize this just from a physical footprint? You get this area, I get this area. You take that area. So yeah, the zones were a response to we have all of this area, we have all these things we want to do. Uh, how do we accomplish this, and how do we organize it, and how do we bring in more people? So again, you know, the first couple of years, because it is sort of helpful to look back as we look forward, we had probably an equal number of people that were working to produce the entire festival as we now have working on these zones. And that structure is a zone commander who is paired with an art lead, and in some cases it's a handful of art leads. Some cases the zone commander is the art lead. Um, there's really no particular focus. But what we've found is by really giving one person the authority to own that area, to use the, the Gritty City, we've already talked about Josh Miller a little bit and the 2x2 Fest. Gritty City is Josh, uh, partnering with some really incredible artists that he has worked with during his time here in town to build a- an homage to 1970s New York City. So if you think about The Warriors and then pulled all of the warriors out and just kept the background.

Tim Fulton 26:49Okay.

Patrick Losey 26:49That is what Josh is producing. Um, so his focus came-

Tim Fulton 26:53And so to be clear, at any point that you're in the festival, are you in one of those areas and so everything sort of falls within a zone, you know?

Adam Burlett 27:02Think of it like Epcot Center.

Tim Fulton 27:04Okay.

Adam Burlett 27:04You walk from one area to the other. Each one has its own artistic look and feel, different bands that are playing on the stage.

Tim Fulton 27:11But each has bands, each has food, each has... You know, they're not all going to have-

Adam Burlett 27:17It's like a bunch of mini festivals all happening within one festival.

Tim Fulton 27:20Gotcha.

Patrick Losey 27:21Yeah. Most of our, most of our majors... So when we're looking at Gritty City, Retropolis, which, uh, last year was the Town Street stage, still the same location, different focus. Sideshow is right outside Strong Water's front door. So some of our major stages and some of our side stages, still in roughly the same spot, but now with, uh, to Adam's point, it is kind of the Epcot approach because there's a visual aesthetic that maintains. So at any point as you're walking through the festival footprint going block to block, the environment changes around you. They're building into it. They're doing some really cool things to, um, make it a more immersive experience. Probably a month ago we started to think about will it be incredibly jarring when you walk from KID, the, uh, Moon Ranch area that's powered by, uh, the Shazbots and a bunch of really great volunteers into Josh's Gritty City. So you go from bright and happy and cartoon rhinos on the moon to 1970s New York. So we're figuring out how can we even create those transitions so that it is clear that some of these things are intentional and very much, uh, a part of the plan. But the music is something that we did. Um, Derek DuPont led the music team this year, and one of the early challenges we gave Derek was not only we need you to schedule like 100 performances, no big deal, but also we would like you to work with all of these very unique areas to try and find music that makes the most sense for those. Um, so again, to use Josh's zone with the Gritty City, he took a really good look at what makes sense. And so we did end up with a lot more hip hop on that stage, and that's again, as we learn things, we've learned from year to year that it makes sense to, to circulate some of the performances to make sure that we're not just putting one genre on one stage and leaving it, um, but to be able to really put that across the entire festival so no matter where you're at you have part of that experience. But we did when we had an opportunity sort of place performances, bands, installations in areas that make sense so it all builds towards one collective theme.

Adam Burlett 29:05I was gonna say I love the fact that I got on Instagram the other day and Dan the Witch Siren said, "Yay, we're at Independence Day on the Fantasy & Folklore stage. Duh."

Patrick Losey 29:13Yeah. Yeah, there are some really natural fits that, uh, some of them intentional, uh, many of them intentional I think, again, to give credit to the music team, but some of them that just sort of fell together and we went, "That, that feels right." So when we're looking at... One of the things that I think when we talk about the festival always comes up in the early conversation we always sort of forget to highlight is just the physical art that is a part of that experience. And in talking to people, that's probably what half the people show up for. There are a lot of festivals in Columbus that put music on a stage or that sell beer or that bring food trucks in. Uh, there are very few festivals that bring in 250 artists to do 250 or 300 projects over the course of two blocks. And that's one of the things that I think is really cool about this year was we gave even more license to do bigger things or to truly own an area. And so in some cases, uh, with the Retropolis theme, which I feel like you particularly are... You are a target audience for this particular zone. Um, Flash Gordon during the day and sort of a Back to Future Tron audience at night.

Tim Fulton 30:13Hmm.

Patrick Losey 30:14Interesting.

Tim Fulton 30:15You're speaking my language.

Patrick Losey 30:16They are even taking to the extent of not just some interactive things, like a giant Lite-Brite that Adam and I saw a portion of, and it is a giant Lite-Brite, but constructed in a very unique way. Um, some of the things that you'll be able to really get your hands on, but also the stage installation is amazing, and I can't wait for people to see it. And so this has been an opportunity for a lot of the artists that have always been a part of the festival to not only, "Hey, this is a cool thing," but to build it from a particular focus. And so there is a little bit more of a cohesive feel to how those zones work together.

Tim Fulton 30:49'Cause you guys have done a great job of the backdrops that-

Patrick Losey 30:52Yeah

Tim Fulton 30:52... have been constructed for the stages. But what you're saying is, not only is it a backdrop on a stage, but it's an environment.

Patrick Losey 30:58Correct.

Adam Burlett 30:59Yes. And- and also, it kind of extends into the people, too. Like, the kids that worked the first year in Franklinton, the kids that worked on the stage, Chris Blaine, Max McAvoy, Mandy Caskey, Jacob Tanner, like, these- these were just kids that were getting out of school and looking for something fun to do, and had no idea what it was. You know, s- basically slaved away, like, making these things. Uh, you know, got excited when we gave them burritos. And- and then every year we, like, give them a little bit more responsibility, and then all of a sudden they're in charge of a stage. And now they're the leaders. You know, Max McAvoy is leading Retropolis. He is designing all the artwork, and he's got a team working for him. So it's not just about teaching somebody, "Hey, let's go make this fun thing for a stage." It's teaching them, like, how to lead an art team, how to apply that to practical, uh, you know, organizational skills and-

Tim Fulton 31:51Well, and it's empowering them.

Adam Burlett 31:53Correct.

Tim Fulton 31:53Right.

Adam Burlett 31:54And- and so if part of the empowerment is using their creative desire... When we created the zones, we didn't say, like, "Hey, these are the... This is what we wanna do for the zones." We said, "You guys come up with ideas and tell us what you want your zone to be." So-

Patrick Losey 32:06We did spend one night brainstorming themes- ... which fortunately none of them made it through.

Adam Burlett 32:11Yeah.

Patrick Losey 32:11Although I would like to go on the record as saying that the Wild West zone-

Adam Burlett 32:14Yeah.

Patrick Losey 32:15I- I- yeah, I'm a little sad that that never came to be. It- it has a soft spot in my heart only because it was the example that Adam started using- ... and then recognized, "I have probably said it out loud too many times. People are just gonna think this is a real thing."

Adam Burlett 32:28Yeah.

Tim Fulton 32:28Right.

Patrick Losey 32:28"So I'm gonna say it out loud one more time just in case people show up and go, 'Where's the Wild West zone?'"

Adam Burlett 32:33But it- but it was fun to watch all the artists, like, say, "Hey, I wa- we wanna do this gritty city thing." And then Chris Blaine and, uh, Josh Miller get together and they start brainstorming. And it's like you got one guy that's really into hip hop and one guy that's really into, like, metal and punk, you know, bands, and then they start blending that into this, like, whole environment, and they're building storefronts, and there's a subway car that's gonna run down the road, and they're doing graffiti and dunk competitions and break dancing, and there's, like, fences and, uh, you know, construction materials all around, and it feels like a gritty city. And then the music that's on the stage is hip hop and metal and punk bands. And it- it's fun to watch them h- have to fight over it and brainstorm, and we give them, like, a ridiculously small budget. We're like, "Hey, do all this stuff for $1,000," and they're, like, building this entire environment for nothing. So people digging stuff out of trash to use and, you know, recycling as much as possible. It's- it's really exciting to watch.

Tim Fulton 33:26And there is a full explanation of all the zones on, uh, Independence Day website, thisisindependent.com. Talk about sort of some of the logistical concerns. When do you guys shut down the street and start setting up for Independence Day?

Patrick Losey 33:40Yeah, that's always one of those interesting conversations to have, because it does change every year, um, as you know, so-

Tim Fulton 33:46Well, and I imagine, like, somebody comes to you and says, "I wanna build a temporary building," and you're like, "Well, that's a fantastic idea, but we can't do that in f- 72 hours."

Patrick Losey 33:56Mm-hmm. Or to use last year as an example, last year our command center, our central home base, was a three-story tall constructed-from-scaffolding art installation. So to put it up, easier to take it down, because the festival on Sunday closed around 8:30. We had to open the street back up by midnight going into Monday. So we had a bunch of artists very, very quickly, and as safely as one can potentially quickly deconstruct a three-story scaffolding structure, um, tearing that thing down, because it was part of our responsibility to at least get those things off the side streets and into an open space. So every year it does change a little bit, because you're right, it's- it's, uh, driven by what are we trying to do and where are we trying to do it, and how do we have to facilitate some of these things? We have been fortunate that there have been a number of really great partners in the neighborhood that are letting us use their spaces so that we can get in and start building things on Wednesday or Thursday. Um, sort of doing temporary prep for those sorts of things. The Idea Foundry has always been terrific with letting us use their big lots.

Adam Burlett 34:58400 West Rich.

Patrick Losey 34:59Yeah, 400 West Rich.

Adam Burlett 35:00Strong Water.

Patrick Losey 35:01Strong Water.

Adam Burlett 35:01Land Grant.

Patrick Losey 35:01We have been able to get into it. So there are our terrific partners that we should recognize, and they make it so much easier, because if we had to do all the setup from midnight until 8:00 AM on Saturday, uh, it would be a really interesting festival, because none of the organizers would be there because everybody would be home and sleeping. So we get in on Friday, and- and Adam and I'll be there Friday at 6:00 AM, I'm sure. And it starts with what can we do that's not on a primary street? And then we close the streets down in the afternoon, we start building, and that's when the stages get dropped, and we carry in... Thankfully, we have a really great team on Saturday morning that helps with all of the load in, because we've talked about, you know, 20-plus food vendors and a whole bunch of beer vendors. I think we have 25 fish craft beer vendors from not only Columbus, but from Toledo, and from Cleveland, and from Cincinnati, and many of them are bringing teams in to help support some of these things. Uh, all of the marketplace vendors, and getting 150 people into 10 or 12 different tents, and all in the right place, and powered, and set up. So the logistical aspect of it changes just based on what we're trying to do. There is always that core, and I think as a, a group of organizers between, uh, Independence Day, and then from some of our other involvements, we're getting a little better at it, a little more efficient. We learned some lessons, like don't build a three-story scaffolding structure in the middle of a street.

Adam Burlett 36:15If everybody's going to be drunk.

Patrick Losey 36:17That certainly also is a... It's, you know, you start learning what you do need to plan for, and what... It's not always, "All right, so do we have the right tools?" It's even, "At what time do we have to do this, and how early or how late, or..." So there's-

Adam Burlett 36:31Or how the artists-

Patrick Losey 36:31... there's so many questions to answer

Adam Burlett 36:32... how the artists have learned. Like the first year in Franklinton, we built everything out of like moving pallets, and we had like, I think it was 88 pallets that we built all these backdrops, and they were heavy, and everybody was tired and exhausted. And then the next year we rented scaffold, and that made it easier, but everybody was still tired. So like this year they're building stuff out of foam and like everything.

Tim Fulton 36:53Literally just make it lighter.

Adam Burlett 36:54Yes.

Patrick Losey 36:54Can you make it easy to move? Now everybody thinks about what happens Sunday night when the festival's over.

Tim Fulton 37:00Right.

Patrick Losey 37:00It was always driven by how is this gonna look? Now it's a combination of this will look great. I have to carry this.

Tim Fulton 37:05How quickly can we set this up? How will it look? And how can we get rid of it?

Patrick Losey 37:09Yeah. As you were talking about that, I was reminded of the first year we were in Strongwater trying to... All of the stage signs were just supported by pallets, and they had been zip-tied to telephone poles. So it worked for two days, but to get it down was one of those moments where we all just sort of like crossed our fingers and went, "Well, hopefully we get through this."

Tim Fulton 37:26Right.

Patrick Losey 37:26So yeah, that does change things, and it's, again, it's an experience for everybody to do. I'm starting to learn from, uh, this particular position and seeing everybody with their hands in things that the festival is both the two days that people show up and have a great time, but it's the rest of the time leading into it, and it's the opportunities to learn some of those, in some cases, really useful lessons. In some cases just if it's gonna be heavy, maybe make it lighter. Um, so practical applications. But seeing that year over year, as Adam has sort of talked about with the artists that continue forward, they end up leading another group and being able to, "Well, we did try that," or, "We gave this a shot," or, you know. The, the focus is always year over year, how can we do this, but do it a little smarter, a little better? Um, some cases it's how can we do it without spending so much money on something that doesn't pay off, or that didn't work the way we thought it did? But that's always really, really fun, and seeing the conversations and seeing the, you know, from my seat right now, that is almost as equally impressive, if not more so. What happens in the third weekend in September is a great way to show off all of these amazing things and people working in our community, but the sort of invisible work that they do leading into it is so much more impressive.

Adam Burlett 38:35I 100% agree with that statement. There are many people that work basically full-time job, uh, you know, like they're working a normal job, and then they come and they work on Independence Day for months out of the year to make this happen. And I think that that's something y- you know, it's not easy for somebody that's a general festival-goer. They may have a complaint about this or that. It's really hard to see how much work people are putting into this. It's a, it's a nonstop effort year-round. The, the festival ends, and two weeks later we're having a debrief and talking about planning for the next year. You know, m- maybe some of us are crazy and we are, you know, doing this for free because we love to do it kinda thing, but, um-

Tim Fulton 39:13Well, you love the payoff.

Adam Burlett 39:14Yeah. The, and the, the payoff isn't monetary.

Tim Fulton 39:17Right.

Adam Burlett 39:17You know, it's, it's hard to explain to a bank like why would you spend 40 hours a week doing all this work and not get any money for it? But the payoff has more to do with like look at the changes in the city of Columbus since the festival started. And again, not that we're taking full credit for that, but if you could have a moment, a weekend where people can with pride celebrate all the interesting things that are going on, and all those interesting things can get to know each other and start collaborating, and audiences that are maybe on the outer belt that come in for the weekend to see all this stuff start recognizing, and then they wanna come back down on a, another weekend to come to a brewery or d- go see a performance or come to an art exhibition. It changes the landscape of how people view Columbus. It changes the landscape of the type of city pride that we have. It changes the, the way the people that interact in the festival over the course of the year, it changes their lives. It f- helps them find jobs. It helps them gain prominence and get articles written about the artwork that they're making now, or, you know, makes connections with partnerships that end up, you know, turning into new businesses. And for me it's like, uh, I'll gladly work 40 hours a week if I could make something cool happen rather than just sitting and, you know, playing video games and having status quo and, and no knock against video games. But I, I would rather do something with the time that I'm given to make some sort of an impact, and I think that that's the really great thing about the Independence Day team, the core team, the, the lieutenants, the board members, the art directors, the zone commanders. Those people are all doing it because they want to see something happen, because they wanna make something happen. You know, when you see somebody like Josh Miller again going and doing 2x2 Fest, I'll give him all the support he could possibly ask for to whatever limit I have available to help him make that happen. Because again, it's, it, maybe, maybe I'm not like the biggest hip hop fan, but I'd rather see people doing things than not doing things. And I, I think that that's kinda what this festival inspires.

Patrick Losey 41:13It's also really, I was s- as you were talking about that, thinking through the groups that lead these things. I mean, there's certainly been sort of a core that has grown and evolved, and you can see it just in KID, our kids festival within a festival because at- Birthday eight for the festival. Uh, we sort of looked around and went, "Some of us are getting a little older."

Tim Fulton 41:34Some of us have kids.

Patrick Losey 41:35Some of us have some kids. What should we do about that? Uh, and Independence Day has always been a family-friendly event, but we never specifically went after how can we make this a great experience whether you're two, 22 or, you know, us. And at this point, that's been a response and the idea that last year we were able to do it for the first time and, you know, actually Baker gets a lot of credit for being the one that said, "Hmm, what would I bring my son to?"

Tim Fulton 42:00Right.

Patrick Losey 42:00And effectively use that as an opportunity to introduce it, and this year it's huge and it's so much bigger, uh, and will continue to evolve and that almost becomes its own wing of the festival. But even thinking, uh, through the background of the different people that are leading some of these. We do have Josh that is a videographer and throws a great hip hop festival. We've got Susie that next week is going to California to pitch a $30 million investment deal in a very important tech sector. Um, Varun and his background across arts and tattoo culture and all sorts of different... And you know, if you made your sort of lineup of, all right everybody stand against the wall and guess what these people do, it's also pretty impressive when you look and realize that nobody really has their hands in the same thing on a day-to-day basis, but somehow all of these people have come together, volunteered their time and worked toward this big goal. And that is, it is really impressive when you start to think about it. Uh, a couple weeks ago I went down to Nelsonville and met with, uh, Tim Peacock who I did not know but now really adore. Tim is the organizer of the Nelsonville Music Festival. So if there's ever a good example of somebody that does something right and puts together a great festival, he is certainly one of them. And we had a variation of that same conversation and his takeaway was, "How, how did you get so many people to commit and care so much?" And I don't know that we have an answer for it, but it is always impressive to see how it goes. And every year there are people that really get excited and then sort of fade away for one reason or another. You know, we talked about in January what we say we're gonna do and in September what actually happens, usually radically different. But the number of people that not only stay with it for the year but year after year after year and, you know, five years from now when we look at what Independence Day '14 will be like, it's people that probably attend the festival this year that will be steering the ship at that point.

Tim Fulton 43:40How can people help?

Patrick Losey 43:42There are all sorts of opportunities and thank you for asking that question because after having talked about how it is a volunteer driven festival, volunteering is really a great way to get involved whether it's just in supporting a cool community festival, it's a good way to randomly meet your neighbors or make a new friend. Uh, we have a couple really funny Independence Day couple stories where like, "Yep, we volunteered for the beer tent and now we're married." So you have to be careful because sometimes you just wanna pour beer and you end up in that situation. We take no responsibility for that. But thisisindependent.com there is an option to volunteer and we've got volunteer shifts that are a couple hours to pour beer. We've got shifts that are in support of stages, helping work with artists, run some of the interactive installations. Uh, really there is a focus for just about anyone. And it can be a very small time commitment or if somebody's really excited, you know, it is an open festival and every year it's the output of every single person's input and we figure out what that looks like. So if it's come and pour beer this year and then next year show up to one of those first planning meetings. Um, this year in March we brought a couple hundred people together inside Strong Waters event space and talked about what we thought it was going to be. And I'm kind of amazed because our zone concept that we had just started to build out actually lived through it. And so I think that's a testament to, oh, we kinda got that one right. Um, but every year there's always that open call and it's a great way to jump in and do something whether it's on a very low level where you're just there for the weekend or if you've got a really great big project, Adam has lots of, uh, ideas as to how we can probably facilitate that.

Adam Burlett 45:14Yeah and I think there's also an opportunity the Independence Day group tends to be pretty open to discontent. So if somebody comes to the festival and they don't see themselves at it or they wish this would've happened this way or, you know, "Hey you could do this so much better," or whatever, we're willing to listen to that. And when I say we're willing to listen to that I don't mean like get on the internet and complain and then it's gonna change. I mean if somebody shows up to a meeting and says, "Hey, I don't see any of this going on. I'd like to change that or I'd like to help you change that," our group is very willing to listen to those things and adapt and adjust and, and every year it does, it changes. And it, and a lot of times some of the best positive changes that we have are when somebody from a certain community or a certain discipline or a whatever comes and says like, "Hey, I don't really see this happening there." Like we had last year the, um, video game community came in and they said, "Hey, we don't really see a representation of our video game community." And so they came in and they, they designed a whole video game inside a shipping container. This year they're doing a whole, uh, VR experience and video games inside Strong Water. And like that ends up being a really strong partnership because we like learn how they work and they learn how we work and then we figure out like what will work together. And that happens all the time like w- with, with people that wanna stand up, um, and, and actually make something happen. I think that's really important to, to foster people that aren't happy with what they see.

Tim Fulton 46:39Great. Anything else you guys wanted to touch on?

Adam Burlett 46:42I know it sounds like a, a sponsor plug or something like that but it, every year all these people do all this work and the festival costs money and yes we make money from beer and sales and stuff like that but we have, we're very fortunate in the city of Columbus to have sponsors that have started getting why doing this sort of thing is valuable to spend their money on, to support in the ways that they do. And you see, you know, great community companies that are growing with the festival. Uh, you know a, a Kaufman Development or an Orange Barrel or a Cover My Meds, a Jeni's Ice Cream that like as they grow they're willing to support us a little bit more and they're willing to let us take the risks of making a pinata Thunderdome or a p- you know, a corrugated Grand Prix or all these s- silly things that we do because they understand the value of how that affects the community. And every year we grow in the number of sponsors and supporters and those, those people are also unsung heroes. You know they're, uh, we, we s- put their logos on our shirts and w- we encourage people to pay attention to who these companies are but they're the, they're not just the people that are giving us money but they're the people attending the festival. You know, employees of these companies are, are the ones that we're supporting. They're the people that live in our neighborhoods, they're, uh, the people that we're creating it for. I, I think it's really important for us to recognize like you don't have to do the corporate sellout sort of thing to be able to work with a corporation or, or a company. It's nice to know that the companies in Columbus understand why it's beneficial to work with something like this.

Tim Fulton 48:16Great. Patrick, Adam, thank you so much for your time.

Patrick Losey 48:19Thanks, Tim.

Adam Burlett 48:19Thanks a lot.

Tim Fulton 48:28Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on Independence Day and the other things that we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Big thank you to Patrick and Adam for taking the time out of their crazy schedules getting ready for Independence Day. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, your family, your contacts, your enemies, your favorite festival-goer. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a good week.