ProMusica Chamber Orchestra

Tim Fulton 0:09Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, I sat down with David Danzmayer, music director of ProMusica Chamber Orchestra, for an engaging conversation about his surprising journey from Austrian piano prodigy to American music director, how ProMusica impressed him with its singular focus and commitment, and why musicians should focus on emotional expression and engagement with musical pieces over technical mastery. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored today by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with David Danzmayer, the music director of ProMusica Chamber Orchestra. David, how are you, sir?

David Danzmayr 1:38I'm, I'm good. Thank you.

Tim Fulton 1:39Good. Thank you so much for being here. First of all, for those that aren't familiar, can you tell us about ProMusica?

David Danzmayr 1:46ProMusica is, uh, the chamber orchestra in Columbus, in Columbus, Ohio, and it's a very unique, actually, orchestra because we are flying people in from all over the country. So not everybody who's playing in the orchestra is based in the same city, which is, you know, uh, uh, normally the occurrence that, you know, people who play in an orchestra live in the city where the orchestra is.

Tim Fulton 2:08But it is a resident orchestra, right?

David Danzmayr 2:09It is a resident orchestra.

Tim Fulton 2:10Okay.

David Danzmayr 2:10The orches- so the organization and the orchestra is resident. I mean, I, I personally even live, live in Columbus, which is, for conductors, not at all a requirement-

Tim Fulton 2:18Right

David Danzmayr 2:18... uh, normally. So we've kind of turned it around a little bit. But yeah, it's, it's a pretty, pretty unique... It's not a complete unique proposition, but it's a pretty unique proposition that we have our musicians coming from as far as Los Angeles or, you know, San Diego, Phoenix, and some people drive in Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and some people are obviously locals. So we're not excluding the locals at all. It's just our concept is really to have the musicians that are absolutely the best that we can have, and we help them with travel costs, and we have a great housing program where, where, where people, you know, stay in private accommodations and-

Tim Fulton 2:51That's great

David Danzmayr 2:51... you know, get, get connections. It's really like a family coming together. It's like an extended family coming together from all over the country, like-

Tim Fulton 2:58Every couple months

David Danzmayr 2:58... you know, here for Thanksgiving or so. Ev-

Tim Fulton 3:00Right

David Danzmayr 3:00... every month, actually, yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:01Okay.

David Danzmayr 3:01Once a, once a month, basically, yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:03Who has to deal with those travel arrangements?

David Danzmayr 3:05Well, it's, it's, it's, I would say, I mean, in some ways, Ch- uh, you know, Janet, our executive director-

Tim Fulton 3:10Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 3:10... has to deal with the overall, you know, concept, but it's, it's main- mainly Charlie Marino who has really to, to work it out. It's-

Tim Fulton 3:17Well, there's your shout-out.

David Danzmayr 3:18She's-

Tim Fulton 3:18Yeah.

David Danzmayr 3:18Yeah, there's a shout-out. Oh, there, th- that's not the only shout-out to Janet and Charlie who k- keep, you know... It's, it's really the, the pillars and the heartbeat of this organization. I mean, we have great staff generally, but I mean, you know, everybody in Columbus knows that Janet is brilliant and, and, and, and, you know, uh, Charlie is a fantastic, fantastic operations director who really, you know, keeps the thing running smoothly, which is very important for me to rely on, obviously.

Tim Fulton 3:41And so as the music director, how long have you been in your role?

David Danzmayr 3:44I think it's my fourth season, fifth season. It's fourth or fifth season. I mean, it's difficult for me to tell because before I was music director designate for one season.

Tim Fulton 3:53Okay.

David Danzmayr 3:54And, and it's actually a good sign that I, you know, that, that I don't count the years because you normally count the years if you wanna get out of a contract-

Tim Fulton 4:01Right

David Danzmayr 4:01... or if you panic to renew a contract. And-

Tim Fulton 4:03Okay

David Danzmayr 4:04... if you would ask me now, "How long does your contract go?" I could tell you it's a couple more years on paper, but I mean, we will work as long as we want to work together, and, and we're all very happy at the moment, so.

Tim Fulton 4:14It's an indication that you're comfortable and happy.

David Danzmayr 4:15Yeah, absolutely. I think that that's the way you should work together, you know? If you really have to look at all the details in your contract and exactly the timelines and so on, it means that something is most probably not going exactly like it should.

Tim Fulton 4:26Can you talk about your career? You grew up in Salzburg, studied piano performance-

David Danzmayr 4:31Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 4:31... correct? How did you get here?

David Danzmayr 4:34Um-

Tim Fulton 4:34Talk about that path.

David Danzmayr 4:35Yeah.

Tim Fulton 4:35Not, not, don't go through the CV, but like what, you know-

David Danzmayr 4:37Well, you know, I, I have, I have to go a little bit through the CV to answer-

Tim Fulton 4:40Okay

David Danzmayr 4:41... the question because it, it, it, uh, explains a little bit how crazy life can be. Um, I, I often say to people, everything that I... You know, most things that I planned didn't turn out the way I planned them, and most things that I didn't plan kind of, like, happened in a great fashion.

Tim Fulton 4:56Okay.

David Danzmayr 4:57So I first started in Salzburg. When I was 10, I went to Mozarteum and, and started, you know, started studying piano. And when I was 15, I really had enough of it and I quit.

Tim Fulton 5:06Okay.

David Danzmayr 5:07Didn't really quit playing the piano. I played a lot. You know, I made some money actually playing the piano in that age, but I didn't wanna become a pianist. And then when I was 18, I started studying conducting, first in Salzburg, then went to Helsinki to Sibelius Academy. And then, um, you know, k- kept, kept myself afloat after, you know, when finishing college with, you know, the odd jobs, lots of contemporary music, had a little contemporary music ensemble in Salzburg. And then the real breakthrough point came when I won the audition for, uh, the assistant conductor of the Scottish National Orchestra.

Tim Fulton 5:38Okay.

David Danzmayr 5:38Or actually, you know, official Royal Scottish National Orchestra now because we're all fancy.

Tim Fulton 5:42Right.

David Danzmayr 5:43And I was there three years. Like, moved to Scotland. M- Both my kids born in Scotland. Um-

Tim Fulton 5:48Okay

David Danzmayr 5:50... and then in Scotland, uh, the artistic administrator, she was American, Gail Mahood. Uh-

Tim Fulton 5:55Okay

David Danzmayr 5:55... and she was wonderful to me, like really wanted to help me, believed in me. And she said to me, "Why don't you try, you know, getting some things in the States?" And I said, "Well, you know, I mean, I'm European. I don't know. Will they- Will they want me? I mean, is, is there, is there, is there a possibility even to kind of like, you know, uh, apply for jobs as well?

Tim Fulton 6:11But was that a goal? Was that something you wanted to-

David Danzmayr 6:13I had not really thought it. I mean, like, f- you know, when you're, when you're a young conductor, you, you, you think about where can I do anything, you know?

Tim Fulton 6:22Right.

David Danzmayr 6:22It's, it's, it's really... I, I think it's generally for young musicians. I mean, either you win really a major competition, and that came a little bit later in my life. I mean, the, the weird, the weird fact about competitions and me is that I already had a music director position when I got the real big prizes at-

Tim Fulton 6:38Okay

David Danzmayr 6:39... at, at the big competitions, which is the wrong way around somehow you know?

Tim Fulton 6:42Okay.

David Danzmayr 6:42It's like normally you do it the other way around, but-

Tim Fulton 6:44So that's what the... A- and I'm not familiar with-

David Danzmayr 6:46Yeah

Tim Fulton 6:46... this path. Normally, let's say you get to be, you train, you start training-

David Danzmayr 6:51Yeah

Tim Fulton 6:51... at that age-

David Danzmayr 6:52Yeah

Tim Fulton 6:52... at 10.

David Danzmayr 6:53Yeah.

Tim Fulton 6:53Um, because that's the time when you're-

David Danzmayr 6:55Well, you start even, I mean, you start learning an instrument, you know, maybe at, I started at six-

Tim Fulton 7:00Okay

David Danzmayr 7:00... some people start at eight or so.

Tim Fulton 7:01I'm trying to figure out when my daughter-

David Danzmayr 7:03Four

Tim Fulton 7:03... yeah.

David Danzmayr 7:03It, yeah, that's exactly. So if you have a, if, if, if you have a very, very young daughter, you, you, you drill her immediately, and you don't give her any free time, and you d- destroy her life by making her practice-

Tim Fulton 7:11So let's walk through-

David Danzmayr 7:11... all the time, right?

Tim Fulton 7:11... how I'm gonna destroy my daughter's life. So she's, she's two right now.

David Danzmayr 7:15Yeah, immediately. Like g- g- get her-

Tim Fulton 7:18I can put a viol-

David Danzmayr 7:18... the strictest, uh, g- give her a violin-

Tim Fulton 7:20... a violin in her hand

David Danzmayr 7:20... give her the strictest teacher-

Tim Fulton 7:21Okay

David Danzmayr 7:21... and make her miserable, you know? It's like, no.

Tim Fulton 7:23Okay.

David Danzmayr 7:23I, I really don't... I mean, some people, you know, the way I'm, I'm, I'm saying that, you know, unfortunately some people still really believe in that. I, I mean, you know, some people, I know some people who are actually happy musicians who started very young, you know?

Tim Fulton 7:36Uh-huh.

David Danzmayr 7:36I mean, you can start, but I think the child really needs to show-

Tim Fulton 7:41Interest

David Danzmayr 7:41... the motivation.

Tim Fulton 7:42Right.

David Danzmayr 7:43For, for me it was actually the, the opposite way around. When I was four years old, I really wanted to start learning the piano, and my father-

Tim Fulton 7:49Okay

David Danzmayr 7:49... actually forbid me until I was nearly six. And-

Tim Fulton 7:53Why?

David Danzmayr 7:54I, I think it was a very smart thing. I, I'm, I'm still a very active person. As a kid, I mean, nowadays they would just like say that I'm hyperactive or something.

Tim Fulton 8:02Okay.

David Danzmayr 8:02At that time it was just like I was a slightly annoying child, very loud, throwing things around, throwing tantrums, but also being very kind of like personable and, and, and, and happy.

Tim Fulton 8:12Okay.

David Danzmayr 8:12So I think my father saw that, you know, sitting, a, a- an instrument requires discipline and sitting still, and I was absolutely not able to sit still. I w- you know what I mean? Like physically I could not sit still as a kid.

Tim Fulton 8:24Okay.

David Danzmayr 8:25And so he was worried that I would start with the piano but getting frustrated and not having the-

Tim Fulton 8:32Discipline.

David Danzmayr 8:32Yeah.

Tim Fulton 8:33Yeah.

David Danzmayr 8:33Just, just, just, just not seeing that it not only takes, you know, musicality and, and love for music, but it really also takes discipline, you know? I was, I was clearly also at four years old talented enough to like do something, but six was a good age because I still had problems sitting still, and I got, I can tell you like, I mean, f- thankfully my mother was very patient with me on the piano because I would throw, I mean, li- literally every day when I was practicing I would at least throw one or two tantrums on the piano.

Tim Fulton 8:58And so was 10 when you started formal training, or was 10 when you started performing?

David Danzmayr 9:02Well, basically before I was at the music school, you know?

Tim Fulton 9:05Okay.

David Danzmayr 9:06And I had a great teacher. I mean, she was fantastic. The only reason why I changed to Mo- well, there was two, two reasons why I changed to Mozarteum. First, my, my piano teacher at that time that I had, she was going through a pretty, you know, rough part of her life, and, and my parents were kind of friends with her, you know?

Tim Fulton 9:23Okay.

David Danzmayr 9:23They, they just had the feeling that she, at that time, she didn't quite have her head together enough to really give, you know, solid weekly lessons to me, you know?

Tim Fulton 9:32Okay.

David Danzmayr 9:32I, I don't, you know, that's just a story I heard from my parents, so I can't, I, I was a little bit too young to really-

Tim Fulton 9:37Right

David Danzmayr 9:37... judge that. But, you know, you know, I mean, I, I c- I can imagine somehow, you know, she was a very interesting person. Um-

Tim Fulton 9:43Well, it's interesting you bring it up now, and I don't, like, we can go way down this psychological-

David Danzmayr 9:48Oh, no, absolutely

Tim Fulton 9:48... path, but like does it-

David Danzmayr 9:49We can go, we can go down the rabbit hole as far as you want. That's-

Tim Fulton 9:52Do-

David Danzmayr 9:52... uh, that's all fine with me, you know? It's-

Tim Fulton 9:53Well, let's talk about that a little bit then.

David Danzmayr 9:55Yeah.

Tim Fulton 9:55Does the disruptions in that teacher's life translate to your current work?

David Danzmayr 10:00Actually not. Uh, like, like for me she was one of the most positive experiences in my life, you know?

Tim Fulton 10:06Okay.

David Danzmayr 10:06I think the only thing that I noticed as a child was that my piano lessons got a little bit more irregular-

Tim Fulton 10:13Right

David Danzmayr 10:13... in a kind of way.

Tim Fulton 10:14Okay.

David Danzmayr 10:15And, um-

Tim Fulton 10:15So it wasn't like erratic during the-

David Danzmayr 10:18Oh, sh- she was, I-

Tim Fulton 10:19... during the rehearsals or whatever

David Danzmayr 10:20... I think she was, she was like, she was always somehow erratic, but in the most, for me, in the most delightful way, you know? I mean-

Tim Fulton 10:27She was Mary Poppins.

David Danzmayr 10:28She was, yeah, yeah, in some ways. I mean, she was really able to put up with the rubbish that I would bring into the lessons, you know?

Tim Fulton 10:35Okay.

David Danzmayr 10:35I mean, like I, I was-

Tim Fulton 10:36I see.

David Danzmayr 10:37I think in some ways I was a joy to work with because I was progressing extremely fast. I mean, I started piano with six. With eight I played my first full Beethoven sonata, so you know-

Tim Fulton 10:46Wow

David Danzmayr 10:46... the progress was fairly quick. And I did practice. I didn't practice as much as, you know, other kids from like drilling families, but I practiced regularly. I practiced, you know, at that age an hour a, a day or so.

Tim Fulton 10:57Okay.

David Danzmayr 10:57You, you know, which, which is not, which is not unbelievable, but which is not too bad.

Tim Fulton 11:01Right.

David Danzmayr 11:02And I made progress, so I think, you know, she really loved working with me. And, and interestingly later when I studied for conducting, I managed to get a special permission to continue piano lessons with her, because when you, you know, when you get trained as a conductor in Europe you, you have to do piano as well.

Tim Fulton 11:17Okay.

David Danzmayr 11:17And I actually managed to get an exchange program inside of my own university so that I could get lessons with her again.

Tim Fulton 11:23And so that was at age?

David Danzmayr 11:2518 then.

Tim Fulton 11:26Okay.

David Danzmayr 11:26From age 18 to age 23 or so I took piano lessons with her again, you know?

Tim Fulton 11:30So you took piano lessons with her for 15 years.

David Danzmayr 11:33Uh, well, in, in, in the, in, in between not. So I took piano lessons-

Tim Fulton 11:35Oh, okay

David Danzmayr 11:35... with her from six to 10.

Tim Fulton 11:37Okay.

David Danzmayr 11:37And then when I was 15 I just took very sporadic private lessons with her just to, you know, brush up some things, and then when I was 18 I took regular piano lessons with her again. I mean, to this day she is one of the most biggest inspirations I had. I mean, you know, she was... I was just recently talking with somebody about like different types of training and how some teachers just wanna teach you some technique or so.

Tim Fulton 11:59Mm-hmm.

David Danzmayr 12:00I, I, I did barely know how to play, you know, a, a melody on the piano, and she was starting to talk with me about making music and phrasing and thinking about what it means and why a composer wrote something, and so there was like- Uh, it, it, it's, it's a general, you know, somewhat, you know, Central European thing, this, this obsession with the background of the music, which I think is, is very important.

Tim Fulton 12:20Right.

David Danzmayr 12:20But, um, it's very interesting in my memories, and I talked, I think it was actually Bram Van Sambeek, the bassoon player I worked with two weeks ago, who said, like, his bassoon teacher just never taught him anything about technique. He was just, like, talking about life and the music and about expressing your inner emotions. And so it's like, you know, when, when you get, like-

Tim Fulton 12:37Well, and that's what, once, once the technique is there, that seems to me what it should be about.

David Danzmayr 12:41Well, that's absolutely.

Tim Fulton 12:42Right?

David Danzmayr 12:42That's what, what I mean, technique should be just a- an ability to tran- translate that into-

Tim Fulton 12:45Right

David Danzmayr 12:46... reality, you know? But I think for, for me it was great and it was very important, and it was, like, a great training ground, like, from a very young kid age on to be confronted permanently with why are you sitting there, you know? What are you trying to express? And it-

Tim Fulton 13:01Right

David Danzmayr 13:01... it, it really opens you up for a complete different world of, you know, you're, you're not playing the notes because-

Tim Fulton 13:06Well, and not to-

David Danzmayr 13:07... the teacher's not happy with you just playing the notes, right?

Tim Fulton 13:09Right. And not to give a simplistic metaphor, but it's the difference between knowing a language and communicating with it.

David Danzmayr 13:13Oh, absolutely. No, it's-

Tim Fulton 13:14Yeah

David Danzmayr 13:14... it's not a simplistic metaphor. It's exactly like that. I mean, if you get trained to be a poet-

Tim Fulton 13:19Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 13:19... you need to think about... You, you, you don't just learn to rhyme. And, and-

Tim Fulton 13:23Right

David Danzmayr 13:23... to, to, to learn the different techniques about poetry, you need to, you need to be confronted immediately with why are you sitting down and writing a poem.

Tim Fulton 13:29Right.

David Danzmayr 13:30You can write a book. You can write a, a, a nonfiction book or something, or you can just not write at all, right? Why would you sit down and try to create a, a poetic work of art expressing something? You have to have a reason. You have to, to have an inner reason to do that, you know?

Tim Fulton 13:44Right.

David Danzmayr 13:44Don't, don't just... Or, or if you would sit on that, on the other end of kind of like expressing some poet's poetry and reading that, you wouldn't just read it sentence by sentence and just without any ex- expression, and you just learn how to read the words. You should immediately start to be confronted with why would somebody write that, you know, what it's about.

Tim Fulton 14:03Talk me through a little bit more about how, what the traditional career path is-

David Danzmayr 14:08Yeah

Tim Fulton 14:08... in your field and how yours differed.

David Danzmayr 14:11I think there is no traditional career path anymore. I th- you know, I mean, there is, in German, uh, it, it depends very much on the country, I would say.

Tim Fulton 14:16Okay.

David Danzmayr 14:18Where I'm from, Austria, Germany, what is considered the traditional career path is called the Ochstour, which means you go through to the theater and you become a repetiteur, and then you become a second kapellmeister, which means second staff conductor. Then you become-

Tim Fulton 14:32Okay

David Danzmayr 14:32... a first kapellmeister, first staff conductor. Then you find a music director that really likes you, and then you kind of, like, take over some, some theater as a general music director. First a smaller theater, then a bigger theater pr- pretty much.

Tim Fulton 14:46And, and are you a-

David Danzmayr 14:47You know, pretty much. But-

Tim Fulton 14:47And so as a music director, my background's in theater, and so what I'm-

David Danzmayr 14:51Yeah

Tim Fulton 14:51... familiar with is the artistic director of a theater company may direct some shows-

David Danzmayr 14:57Yeah

Tim Fulton 14:57... but not necessarily all of them. Is it similar in that as the music director, you're sort of laying out the season-

David Danzmayr 15:03Yeah

Tim Fulton 15:03... and you insert yourself where either it makes sense, frankly, where you want to-

David Danzmayr 15:08Yeah. That's-

Tim Fulton 15:08... where some, the work is interesting to you

David Danzmayr 15:10... that, that's what normally happens. Right.

Tim Fulton 15:10Okay. That's, so that's how that goes.

David Danzmayr 15:12So the, the ideal would be that, you know, music directors insert themselves where it makes sense.

Tim Fulton 15:18Mm-hmm.

David Danzmayr 15:18But, you know, yeah, obviously the ego dictates that you insert yourself also where you just want to.

Tim Fulton 15:25Then that's good. That's good. So how did you then get drawn to Columbus? Back to that, the-

David Danzmayr 15:30Yeah

Tim Fulton 15:30... the woman you were working with.

David Danzmayr 15:31So basically, you know, a- a- after Scotland... And, and, and, like, my path is not very common path, I think, nowadays because after Scotland, again, I moved back to Austria and I was guest conducting. You know, I was doing a fair share of work. It was not bad at all. I could, you know, my family could live off that.

Tim Fulton 15:49Mm-hmm.

David Danzmayr 15:49Uh, my wife was also singing at that time. So we, you know, we had enough money to, to survive decently. But of course it's a lifestyle. You know, particularly when you have family, I mean, you, you, you really look for something more, you know-

Tim Fulton 16:00Stable

David Danzmayr 16:00... that can give some stability as well.

Tim Fulton 16:02Right.

David Danzmayr 16:02And I, and, and generally also from my inner view of how I like to work, I really wanted to have a fixed ensemble that I can try help to shape, where I have, uh, lasting relationships, where I, I really know the people that I work with. It's, it's important for me. And, you know, like I said, Gail Mahot, the artistic administrator in Scotland, she was American and she's thought, she just said to me she thinks that I would do well in America. You know, she, she knew me three years long, so-

Tim Fulton 16:27Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 16:28... honestly, she made a couple of phone calls and helped to unlock doors. I mean, when you think about the music director search in Columbus, they actually did a very, they did a very, very, very time intensive and, and wonderful way of doing a music director search. They actually looked at all the videos, all the DVDs that they got sent-

Tim Fulton 16:44Okay

David Danzmayr 16:45... and everything. And it was actually surprising because I remember when I applied for the job, it said, "Send DVD of your conducting immediately." And most organizations are like, "Just please don't send any video, anything. We don't have time for that."

Tim Fulton 16:55Right.

David Danzmayr 16:55"Just send something, cover letter or whatever," and, you know-

Tim Fulton 16:58Send your CV, right

David Danzmayr 16:59... "Let us basically throw it away before, before we can, you know, deal with the amount of work." And, and in Pro Musica it was very surprising. Uh, it, it made me confident because I was really believing in my DVD.

Tim Fulton 17:11Okay.

David Danzmayr 17:11So, uh, I was happy to apply and then-

Tim Fulton 17:14In terms of level of expe- and I'm just, again-

David Danzmayr 17:16Yeah, sure

Tim Fulton 17:16... trying to understand the field. In terms of level of experience, were you maybe not as experienced as someone else that may be submitting, but you were very confident in your performance ability?

David Danzmayr 17:26Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

Tim Fulton 17:26Is that what you're saying?

David Danzmayr 17:27I mean, that's something most probably you would, you would have to ask the people who were on the search committee because-

Tim Fulton 17:31Okay

David Danzmayr 17:31... they have the ex- exact, you know-

Tim Fulton 17:33The matri- the, the metric

David Danzmayr 17:34... well, they knew the CVs of-

Tim Fulton 17:35Right

David Danzmayr 17:35... all the candidates. Um, uh, I mean, there must have been some people applying who had some other music director jobs and so-

Tim Fulton 17:42Okay

David Danzmayr 17:42... that, the background that I didn't have. And obviously I was completely inexperienced in the kind of like landscape of, you know, American, I mean, you know, it's-

Tim Fulton 17:51Well, and the Midwest, right?

David Danzmayr 17:52M- making music is making music on one hand, but at the same time, I didn't have, you know, particularly strong, uh, contacts to American agencies or these kind of things that might, you know... It, it may be-

Tim Fulton 18:03Did, did-

David Danzmayr 18:03... something you can talk about in the interview and, and m- kind of like talk to make you look good.

Tim Fulton 18:08Right.

David Danzmayr 18:08And so I, I didn't, you know, I didn't, didn't feel that.

Tim Fulton 18:11And did you, did it give you any pause that it was Columbus, Ohio, that it wasn't, you know- ... somewhere on the coast or a, a metropolitan area better known for its cultural institutions?

David Danzmayr 18:22Honestly, I didn't care too much about that for two reasons. One of the reasons was that at the same time, uh, starting one year early but, you know, going through the process at the same time, I was becoming music director of the Illinois Philharmonic Orchestra in Chicago.

Tim Fulton 18:35Okay.

David Danzmayr 18:35So it, it, it was basically, it was, it was complementing each other somewhat perfectly. First of all, Chicago and Columbus is not too far from each other-

Tim Fulton 18:42Right

David Danzmayr 18:42... so that, that certainly helps. But even at that, I didn't look too much. It was just, like, when I looked at the, at the job description of, of ProMusica, it was different. Uh, and, and that kind of, like, is a theme that goes through ProMusica's history, but it's still kind of, like, such a strength in the organization, that things are just done the right way, which is often very different from the usual way.

Tim Fulton 19:05From the way they're normally done.

David Danzmayr 19:06Yeah. And like I said, like with the-

Tim Fulton 19:08Talk about the, those differences

David Danzmayr 19:09... well, th- th- that's, for example, are different when you look at a, at a music director search. You know? That ProMusica really takes the time, and they looked at all... I mean, I, I, I talked with, you know, Todd Schwarzler, who was heading the, uh, music director search, and I was like, "Come on, Todd. I mean, you, you didn't watch all these DVDs." He's like, "No, we did, actually." And they got, like, whatever, 150 candidates or so. I mean, they watched-

Tim Fulton 19:25Okay

David Danzmayr 19:25... 150 videos. I mean, nobody else is do- make... Honestly, that's really-

Tim Fulton 19:31No one would take the time

David Danzmayr 19:31... it, it, it really, that, most people just wouldn't take the time.

Tim Fulton 19:33Right.

David Danzmayr 19:33They wouldn't be interested in that, you know? It's, it's, it's really also a, a, a, a matter of interest. And you see that everywhere in ProMusica. Everywhere. W- whatever we do, and I just grew into this organization. I think I was a very good fit from the beginning because I... You know, I, I think there are, you know, uh, different, different talents out there and so, but I think o- one thing that I bring with me is, is, is de- determination, you know?

Tim Fulton 20:00Okay.

David Danzmayr 20:00I mean, I always had that. I was determined as a kid. I, I was always determined. I, I, I don't like to do things like, you know, some- somehow. I, I... It just doesn't really interest in me, you know? It's not that I wanna work particularly hard or so that that drives me. It's just determination is somewhere in my character. When I take something on, I wanna do it as good as possible. Just, just simply like that. And-

Tim Fulton 20:20And so now that you're here-

David Danzmayr 20:21Yeah

Tim Fulton 20:22... what are your reflections while you're, you know, primarily working for ProMusica, what are your reflections on the Columbus arts community as a whole?

David Danzmayr 20:30Well-

Tim Fulton 20:30Or the city in general

David Danzmayr 20:31... you know, I mean, I, i- in generally, I think it's, it's a good time for us, for us to be there. I just, I just, you know, wa- wa- wanted to elaborate, like, you know, g- a second on-

Tim Fulton 20:39Yeah

David Danzmayr 20:39... on the dete- determination of the whole organization, you know-

Tim Fulton 20:42Please

David Danzmayr 20:42... and how that kind of, like, made me extremely happy from the beginning. Like, that, you know, when you, when you think about Janet, for example, our executive director, Janet Chen, who also, like, I mean-

Tim Fulton 20:50Who is sitting in the room right now, by the way

David Danzmayr 20:51... well, she's, she's sitting in the room right now, so I've like, like- ... I've somewhat a gun to my head, you know, so I need to say now nice things. You know, normally we could speak more freely, obviously.

Tim Fulton 20:59Right.

David Danzmayr 21:00But no. But no, but this is something, and everybody knows it about Janet. I mean, I'm not telling anybody something new who knows her. You know, that she always would go the extra mile, the extra 20 miles at least, to, to make things happen properly-

Tim Fulton 21:12Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 21:12... you know, the right way. And I think we have... And, and, and it's, it's, it's very much how the orchestra goes, you know? I mean, we had situation in rehearsals where I thought, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's going extremely well, but, you know, the, the, the last shine we will get, like, next rehearsal or in the concert or whatever and, and, you know, I'm like, "You know, I think it's, I think we're good." And, you know, o- one person or some persons i- i- in a group just r- like some, some random orchestra member will be like, "Uh, would you mind we do this place again? Just, like, you know, to, you know, I, I, I just have to feel, you know-"

Tim Fulton 21:42I'm not there yet, right

David Danzmayr 21:42... yeah, I'm... Exactly, right. Like that. And it's just everybody's like that. We... It's, it's an organization where everybody strives for excellence, and that's how you create excellence, I think. You know, first you need to have the people really wanting to achieve it. If you, if you don't wanna achieve excellence, you will never get even close, I think.

Tim Fulton 21:58Well, and I think it speaks a lot to the organization, that that's sort of in the DNA.

David Danzmayr 22:04Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:04Right?

David Danzmayr 22:04That, yeah. It's, it's really-

Tim Fulton 22:05That that continues.

David Danzmayr 22:06Yeah. And it's like, you know, our, our, uh, principal guest artist, Vadim Gluzman, who is obviously, you know, one of the top violin players in the world, but he feels the same. You know? He said, like, even 10 years ago, I think, when he came the first time to the orchestra, he said, like, that there were a lot of things that needed to be addressed, but he said the spark was absolutely there.

Tim Fulton 22:24Okay.

David Danzmayr 22:24He said he fell in love immediately. He said, like, he said, like, oh, there was some flaws and some problems. But he said, like, the, the absolute spark, this creative-driven, determined spark of doing things the right way was, was absolutely there. He said, like, it was... It's... As an artist, to come to work with an organization like that, it's a, it's addicting, you know? Because you... We sometimes don't even recognize it so much more internally, you know? Because for us, that's the way-

Tim Fulton 22:51It's normal. Right

David Danzmayr 22:52... we work. It has become a certain normality. Then when you go outside or when you look at, at other... And, you know, I'm, I'm saying internationally at some-

Tim Fulton 22:59Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 22:59... other organizations, you, you realize this is not normal. This is, this is wonderful. It's, it's something that should really make us smile when we work with all, you know, kind of like day-to-day frustrations you sometimes have, but it's still, it's, it's rare. It's rare. Some people-

Tim Fulton 23:13Why do you think that is?

David Danzmayr 23:14I don't even know. I think it's, it's, it's, it's-

Tim Fulton 23:17It's obviously fantastic that you guys have it, but why isn't that, why aren't people striving for excellence?

David Danzmayr 23:23I, I think it really starts with the people. Like, I can't remember. It was some book. I, I can't remember which book it was, but it was some book about excellence written by kind of like a manager in another field, not about musical-

Tim Fulton 23:33Uh-huh

David Danzmayr 23:33... but generally about excellence. And that, that person made the claim it always starts with the people.

Tim Fulton 23:37Mm-hmm.

David Danzmayr 23:37So he said, like, the problem is we always talk about what can we do and so on. He's like, "No, no, no, the first question always needs to be who can you do it with. First get the right people, and then everything will go by itself." And I think actually working with ProMusica, I, I'm starting to look more and more as this about the truth. You know, if you have the right musicians in the orchestra, it will sound great.

Tim Fulton 23:56Mm-hmm.

David Danzmayr 23:56Of course, you need the right conductor, you need the right inspiration. But if you have great musicians sitting in an orchestra, there's a very high likelihood that it will sound very good, you know? And it's all aga- a- about the mindset as well, you know?

Tim Fulton 24:08Right.

David Danzmayr 24:08Not just people who can play the instruments, people who are absolutely determined to let their fingers and their hearts bleed for the music. And, and, and then you look at the organization and- It starts obviously with the executive director, with the staff, because, you know, you know, Janet also chooses the people that she works with. And now when I look at our staff, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's just wonderful people. And then you can f- f- I think from there on, you really... Y- you can, you can make things so... I mean, like, when I think about our Players Forward project, okay-

Tim Fulton 24:36Okay

David Danzmayr 24:36... which is the project with the charter schools where we, you know, fundraised to get close to 100 instruments now into, into kids' hands that would normally not have access to that.

Tim Fulton 24:44Okay.

David Danzmayr 24:45That started in a meeting with... where I was sitting, and Janet, and, and a board member of ours, and, and, uh, the heads of the charter schools, and we were just, like, having a nice conversation about what, what can we do, like, how can Pro Musica help. And I just couldn't shut my mouth.

Tim Fulton 24:59Hmm.

David Danzmayr 24:59It's very typical for me, you know. It's, it's, it... I, I was just sitting there, and people were discussing we could send some musicians in the schools, and I was like-

Tim Fulton 25:06Right

David Danzmayr 25:07... w- w- what about we just get mu- instruments into these kids' hands, and what about we find a teacher, and what about we kind of like... I'm just used to think out loud sometimes-

Tim Fulton 25:15Right

David Danzmayr 25:15... you know, and I didn't really kind of think about it in a way of real- realism. I was just like-

Tim Fulton 25:18Or what are the logistics of this and-

David Danzmayr 25:19... really we should, I was just like-

Tim Fulton 25:20Right

David Danzmayr 25:20... what we really should do is get these kids to play instruments, right? That's really what we need to do. It's not kind of like giving them access to listening, just to play. It will change their lives, you know? And we were starting to discuss it, and half a year later, it was there. I mean, that, that, uh, I couldn't believe it, honestly. I couldn't believe it, and I can't claim to anything else than kind of like giving the initial idea, to be honest.

Tim Fulton 25:41You planted a seed, though.

David Danzmayr 25:42And so, well, I, I planted the seed, but, like, you know, it's then the whole organization, I mean, like, also determined board members and so. I mean, we have s- we have board members who kind of, like, work around the clock for this organization, basically. It's, it's crazy, right? But I mean, six months later, we had, I think at that point, 60 violins-

Tim Fulton 26:00Wow

David Danzmayr 26:00... and, and a teacher, and the kids, and, uh, the schools, and, um, it was there.

Tim Fulton 26:06And it was a funded project, right?

David Danzmayr 26:06And, and that's what I mean. And, and it was, it, it was happening. It was literally happening. And, and, and a couple of months more later, these kids played with us on stage at one of our concerts, like, couple of tunes for the opening of our, of our concert. It's, it's incredibly rewarding, you know-

Tim Fulton 26:22Yeah

David Danzmayr 26:23... to work in Pro Musica, that these things really can happen, you know?

Tim Fulton 26:25Well, and that's a testament, one, to the organization, which I think is what you're emphasizing-

David Danzmayr 26:30Yeah

Tim Fulton 26:30... but also to have, having an engaged board-

David Danzmayr 26:33Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Tim Fulton 26:34For an-

David Danzmayr 26:34Oh, yeah

Tim Fulton 26:35... for an artistic organization-

David Danzmayr 26:36Oh, absolutely

Tim Fulton 26:36... especially that's not just sort of checking the boxes and approving things.

David Danzmayr 26:40Henry Fogel, the, the former executive director of the Chicago Symphony for 18 years and then the president of the American Symphony League, who I'm, uh, thankfully very close-

Tim Fulton 26:49Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 26:49... he said one time to me that the health of an organization, of an arts organization stands and falls with the board.

Tim Fulton 26:57Absolutely.

David Danzmayr 26:57He said it's very simplest, that he says, like, you know, you talk about the executive directors and about the decisions, but he's like, "The, the, the basic health of the organization is with the board, and our board is extremely strong." That-

Tim Fulton 27:07That's fantastic

David Danzmayr 27:08... that, that is of course. And it, it's also backup. It gives you, you know, it gives you kind of like the, the, the backup that you need for visions, you know, if you have a board who is not kind of like trying to hold you back or whatever, but who is like, you know, like-

Tim Fulton 27:20Who's empowering you

David Danzmayr 27:21... yeah, let's do it.

Tim Fulton 27:21Right.

David Danzmayr 27:22Exactly. Yeah. They, they are kind of getting excited, you know, about, about all these ideas.

Tim Fulton 27:25Yeah.

David Danzmayr 27:26You know, that's, that's good.

Tim Fulton 27:27Let me circle back. Talk more about Columbus-

David Danzmayr 27:29Yeah, yeah

Tim Fulton 27:29... the community as a whole.

David Danzmayr 27:30Yeah. No, no, absolutely. Uh, happily. I think it's a great time for me to be here and, and for us as an organization because, I mean, I know Columbus, you know, just for five years, but-

Tim Fulton 27:40Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 27:40... even in these five years, I mean, the city has changed quite a bit, and I think-

Tim Fulton 27:46Where do you guys live?

David Danzmayr 27:47I live in Worthington.

Tim Fulton 27:48Okay.

David Danzmayr 27:48Yeah, yeah. But wherever, I mean, if you look at the center or... 'Cause when I came here, the Short North was already pretty cool. But it just goes into a direction that's, I think, very good. You know, you, you can, you can look online, and on every single day of the week, you c- you have some events that you can go to.

Tim Fulton 28:06Right.

David Danzmayr 28:06And I think it's a city that is really trying, and it's not just trying in a way like, yeah, you know, we're really trying. I mean, every city is trying, but it's-

Tim Fulton 28:15Right

David Danzmayr 28:15... it's, it's, it's really seriously trying. I think there are a lot of people in Columbus who are seriously interested into making this city as good as it can be. And I just read, like, you know, two weeks ago, I mean, it's the 14th biggest city in, in, in Amer- in, in America.

Tim Fulton 28:29Yeah.

David Danzmayr 28:29It's about time, I think, that Columbus sheds this picture of, yeah, it's this kind of like nice, you know, lovely place or so, and I think it's that really, this perception really starts to change-

Tim Fulton 28:39Yeah

David Danzmayr 28:40... you know, from, yeah, it's this kind of nice, lovely place where people are friendly, and people are friendly. I mean, no question-

Tim Fulton 28:45Right

David Danzmayr 28:45... Mid- Midwest is an incredibly friendly place generally, to, yeah, this is a metropolis. I mean, this is a properly big city which needs to have high-level arts which, you know, kind of like has obviously, you know, one of the biggest universities-

Tim Fulton 28:58Right

David Danzmayr 28:58... there is, uh, which is an incredible, uh, happy and, and, and, and outgoing young population, which has diversity, which, which has a size that is st- I mean, and which is the capital of Ohio, which, you know-

Tim Fulton 29:10Right

David Danzmayr 29:10... there are so many things that I think now are at the forefront. I mean, I, I just read about this, you know, i- i- idea that they're kind of trying to push for this... Is it, is it like these independent car things, you know, as a, as a kind of fantastic-

Tim Fulton 29:22Yeah, smart, the smart cities initiative

David Danzmayr 29:23... smart car, smart city and thing. I mean, yeah, all of these things I think are incredibly exciting, incredibly important actually-

Tim Fulton 29:30Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 29:30... for an arts organization to be in a kind of like outgoing city, to be in a city that wants to be, you know, at the center of things, that wants to be in the forefront of things, that wants to be hip in the best ways. So, so th- that is good for arts because arts, and I think people realize that more and more here in Columbus-

Tim Fulton 29:47Yeah

David Danzmayr 29:48... is that arts have to be in the forefront, you know? If, if you wanna excite people, if you wanna, you know, hire, you know, highest, you know, quality people. And so it's, it's really, it's really essential to have all kinds of arts offering, all kinds of offering in general, you know? It's, it's y- you need to have a diverse offering for different types of people to come to move to this city and to, to show interest in this city, and I think Columbus really, really starts to, to promote that. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 30:14For someone who has not been to the orchestra or to the symphony-

David Danzmayr 30:20Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 30:20... that's interested in checking it out, what sort of- Let's say they do no research ahead of time.

David Danzmayr 30:27Yeah.

Tim Fulton 30:27You know, there's, there's the opportunity to research the, the conductor, the musicians, the piece of work that they're about to experience. Let's say they don't do that.

David Danzmayr 30:35Yep. Yep.

Tim Fulton 30:36What do you... What advice would you give them in order to be able to enjoy the work? Is it just sort of being open to it? Is it being in tune with watching what's happening on stage and how interactions are happening? Give a quick primer on how to experience this work.

David Danzmayr 30:57I think, you know, it, it, it, it's in, in general with, with any type of music, it's like just come and, you know, it's, it's-

Tim Fulton 31:04Take it in

David Danzmayr 31:05... if you feel, you know, I mean, if, if, if somebody feels a little bit apprehensive about classical music, what helps is, you know, w- you know, you can buy wine right at our venue- ... and take it in a, in a plastic cup into the venue. Just have a kind of like big glass of wine if, you know, if that makes you happy or-

Tim Fulton 31:19That's good advice

David Danzmayr 31:20... come with friends, you know, come, come in a group or... I mean, you know, I- it's, it's whatever, but I think you don't need to know anything to enjoy, uh, the music. I think actually it's very much our job to make sure, to ensure that you have a good time and that you enjoy your concert. So y- y- you shouldn't have to put in any work.

Tim Fulton 31:38Okay.

David Danzmayr 31:38I mean, obviously we have, we have a concert series targeted to that. It's called Naked Classics.

Tim Fulton 31:42Okay.

David Danzmayr 31:43And we have Paul Rissmann exclusively here in the US with us. Uh, he's the, you know, um, presenter for the London Symphony, and he's, he's a guru. I mean, he's one of the best presenters in the world for classical music, no question about that. He's extremely entertaining and fun. So if you say, "I'd rather have some kind of introduction," I would just say come to the Naked Classics concert. The next one is in April-

Tim Fulton 32:04Okay

David Danzmayr 32:04... with us, with Paul. He will, he will guide you through the whole thing and at the same time make you laugh constantly.

Tim Fulton 32:09And is, so is he literally addressing the audience-

David Danzmayr 32:11Yeah

Tim Fulton 32:11... and saying-

David Danzmayr 32:11He's, he's-

Tim Fulton 32:12Okay

David Danzmayr 32:12... he's addressing the work. He's basically giving you a very in-depth, actually-

Tim Fulton 32:15Okay

David Danzmayr 32:15... introduction to the work that is gonna play, gonna be played. But at the same time he will make you laugh at least once a minute. And, and that's a really kind of like very conservative e- estimate. He will make you laugh actually all the time.

Tim Fulton 32:27Gotcha.

David Danzmayr 32:28Um, he's, so he's this perfect person who, who is extremely entertaining and at the same time you really learn, l- I mean, I even learn from him, you know? So you really learn a lot. So if that's something that concerns you where you say, you know, "I'd, I'd rather have a little bit more understanding before I go"-

Tim Fulton 32:43Right

David Danzmayr 32:43... just come to the Naked Classics and it's all in one package. You just come to the door, you go into the hall, you get everything in one go, and, and hopefully you leave very happy. But generally, I think really I, I, I, I wanna tell this to everybody, like it's, it's good that we talk about it because you don't need to know anything about classical music. Look, when, when, when Beethoven wrote his symphonies, the counts or the people from the streets or whoever went to his concerts-

Tim Fulton 33:08Right

David Danzmayr 33:08... they, they, they didn't know anything about, you know, the music. It's, it's like wh- when, when I go, when you think about rock bands or so, you know, I mean, you know, some people are into, you know, the band totally and they read all these fan magazines-

Tim Fulton 33:21Right

David Danzmayr 33:21... and, and whatever. They know exactly what kind of-

Tim Fulton 33:23But most people don't

David Danzmayr 33:24... his favorite food and how much-

Tim Fulton 33:24Right

David Danzmayr 33:25... this kind of like guy drinks, whatever. But- ... h- honestly, I personally was never particularly interested in these kind of things, so I sometimes would w- when I bought a CD, I would read the CD-

Tim Fulton 33:34The liner notes, right

David Danzmayr 33:35... da, da, da, like that. But, but nowadays there are no CDs anymore anyway, so even that is completely gone in a kind of way. So, you know, but, but you wouldn't say, well, you really have to study the works and so before you can go and attend a rock concert because you assume it's, it's the job of the rock band to entertain you. You pay-

Tim Fulton 33:53Right

David Danzmayr 33:53... they entertain you, right? And it's the same, and I don't know there is some of this kind of like sometimes elitist thinking in some classical organizations-

Tim Fulton 34:00Well, it's considered a high art

David Danzmayr 34:01... that I don't get it. Yeah, but it's the same, for me it's the same principle. For wh- it, it- but it never was a high art, you know? Wh- wh- when it was written, when Beethoven wrote his symphonies-

Tim Fulton 34:08That's fair

David Danzmayr 34:08... you know, he had to survive. He wrote to get paid, you know?

Tim Fulton 34:12Right.

David Danzmayr 34:12And it, it, it is a high art in any way, but it's for me, h- high art is the one who makes the art, you know? High art means that the performers evoke emotions in you and, and make the night unforgettable. But I think we, we really, really need to understand as performers that people come to our concerts, they pay, they, they give us their time-

Tim Fulton 34:35Right

David Danzmayr 34:35... you know? And they want us to make their evening unforgettable. That's, that's-

Tim Fulton 34:40And that's your role

David Danzmayr 34:41... our job on stage. That's my role. You know, that, that's-

Tim Fulton 34:43Right

David Danzmayr 34:43... really what I and the orchestra need to do. I, I cannot go on stage and be like, "Oh, the audience needs to be educated about this so that they can understand it." No. It's, it's, it's my role to make their evening unforgettable and, and to make an experience.

Tim Fulton 34:57Can you talk a little bit more about the role of a conductor? I think that that's, for people that even who have experienced this work-

David Danzmayr 35:05Yeah

Tim Fulton 35:05... but haven't studied it much, it's a little nebulous in that you are, you're cuing musicians. It seems to the outside eye that, that they may be able to frankly handle that themselves-

David Danzmayr 35:18Yeah

Tim Fulton 35:18... to an extent.

David Danzmayr 35:18Well, you know, yeah.

Tim Fulton 35:19W- you know, somebody listening to what's going on.

David Danzmayr 35:21Yeah.

Tim Fulton 35:22What is, what's the role of a conductor? What, what are you doing besides simply cuing people?

David Danzmayr 35:27Well, well, well, it is, it is very nebulous obviously. That, that was one thing that I struggled initially when I was studying conducting and-

Tim Fulton 35:35Okay

David Danzmayr 35:35... uh, it was actually my teacher in Helsinki who broke through that wall because he told me every week, and I'm not overdoing that, like he t- I was studying, he told me every week how rubbish I am, how disappointed he is, how terrible everything is. I mean, it was not only me.

Tim Fulton 35:49So that's how he motivated pe-

David Danzmayr 35:50It was ba- well, it was basically his system. He told all of us that we are terrible and that he's kind of like, you know, can't watch us without getting, you know, sick and so, so it was, you know, it was basically his method. Um-

Tim Fulton 36:00Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 36:00... he was brilliant though. I mean, he was-

Tim Fulton 36:01Okay

David Danzmayr 36:02... absolutely brilliant himself. And week after week I would go to him and I would ask him, you know, "Wh- wh- what this and what that and so on." He was like, "You, you just don't get it, you know. You just don't get it." And after a couple of months I was so desperate that I f- f- something switched in my brain and I broke through this wall of goodness gracious, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm asking him to give me a recipe book-

Tim Fulton 36:29Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 36:29... for a job- Where recipe books don't exist.

Tim Fulton 36:33Okay.

David Danzmayr 36:34You know, I mean, it, it's generally I guess in high art forms. I mean, you know, when, when, when you think about, like, you know, highest level cooks, you know, e- e- eventually they, they, they will really need to be able to cook themselves and invent things and get creative and just, like, leave this comfort zone-

Tim Fulton 36:48Right

David Danzmayr 36:49... and just, just do it and, and, and just make mistakes-

Tim Fulton 36:52Right

David Danzmayr 36:52... on your own and, and just, like, make it work somehow. And that's very much with, with conducting, you know? And I, I was, you know, looking for a while when I was a student for somebody to tell me, "Okay, if you do this, then it will have this result," and so on. It is not like that. It is very nebulous. You-

Tim Fulton 37:06Okay

David Danzmayr 37:07... you have to be... You have to grow up and be an adult and, and lead people.

Tim Fulton 37:14Okay.

David Danzmayr 37:14And, you know, with always when you lead people you make mistakes, and you, you make mistakes very publicly and in front of a lot of people, and you gotta own it up and, like, go with it and, and learn and hopefully not repeat the mistake. Or if you repeat it a second time, then, you know, beat yourself up and say, "Not a third time," you know?

Tim Fulton 37:31Right.

David Danzmayr 37:31"I gotta, I gotta learn from this." And so basically the, the, the basic job of a conductor, you know, apart from waving your arms like a madman- ... is, is, is, is really motivate- motivating people to give their best. An orchestra when you... W- Let, let's, let's keep with the example of a Beethoven symphony since we're playing a Beethoven cycle this season.

Tim Fulton 37:49Yeah.

David Danzmayr 37:49I mean, an orchestra of the quality of ProMusica obviously is very easily able to play a Beethoven symphony from the beginning to the end without the help of a conductor.

Tim Fulton 38:00Right.

David Danzmayr 38:01They can read the notes. They can listen to each other. They can play together. But now you're dealing with the fact that you have, let's say, 40 individuals on stage who all have their own ideas. I mean, how fast should it be played?

Tim Fulton 38:13Right.

David Danzmayr 38:13How loud should this place be played? How lou- h- how should I fit into the puzzle? Because you're dealing here with people who are trained on their instruments to a very high standard, but obviously-

Tim Fulton 38:23Have their own opinions then

David Danzmayr 38:24... have their own opi- That's what I mean, and, and musicians are trained. If they are trained well, then they are trained to have an own opinion and to have a strong opinion and to have-

Tim Fulton 38:31Right

David Danzmayr 38:31... ideas, right? But these opinions don't necessarily match and mix and, you know-

Tim Fulton 38:36Right

David Danzmayr 38:36... there are stylistically questions. So in comes the conductor and basically molds this kind of, like, group of people with all their own opinions into one cohesive whole. And you deal with the same-

Tim Fulton 38:49And I, I think I know the answer to this, but is your role to dictate to them, "Here's how fast. Here's the emotion. Here's, here's the volume," or is it to take these high, this highly skilled group and blend it?

David Danzmayr 39:02It's very tough to answer that because it's a bit of both.

Tim Fulton 39:05Okay.

David Danzmayr 39:05You know? In, in, in some... I mean, and, and there are different approaches. I mean, there are very different styles of conducting, very different ways that people-

Tim Fulton 39:11Just like different ways of cooking.

David Danzmayr 39:12Uh, it's, it's the same. It's-

Tim Fulton 39:13Right

David Danzmayr 39:13... it's basically that. I mean, some conductors come in and they are dictators, and some conductors who are dictators are very successful and very good at what they are doing. Um-

Tim Fulton 39:20How do you work?

David Danzmayr 39:21I work a little bit, particularly with ProMusica, I work I think more collaboratively, and, and we can discuss everything bet- betw- in- after rehearsals as well. I mean, some discussions. You know, it's, it's a very different way that we do things.

Tim Fulton 39:31They approach you and say, "Hey, I-"

David Danzmayr 39:32We c- Yeah, exactly.

Tim Fulton 39:34Okay.

David Danzmayr 39:34Somebody approaches me and is like, "Well, this place, I mean, I understand why you want it so fast, for example, but we basically have the feeling that we have to fake ourselves our way through."

Tim Fulton 39:43Right.

David Danzmayr 39:43"So, I mean, we just want to let you know that. Can we have a conversation about that if the, you know, w- what happens?" And then I can, you know, make up my mind.

Tim Fulton 39:49Well, it's similar to theater in that way, right? That-

David Danzmayr 39:51It's very similar

Tim Fulton 39:52... a, a different actor on stage-

David Danzmayr 39:53Yes

Tim Fulton 39:54... they're not the lead, and yet they're overpowering a scene, and so what, what is sup-

David Danzmayr 39:58It's, that's the thing

Tim Fulton 39:59... supposed to be conveyed?

David Danzmayr 39:59How do you deal with that, right?

Tim Fulton 40:00Right.

David Danzmayr 40:00And, and I think that's also the different styles of directors in theater. Some directors just scream at people-

Tim Fulton 40:05Mm-hmm

David Danzmayr 40:05... and are very dictatorial, have... But, you know, some of them have great vision.

Tim Fulton 40:08Right.

David Danzmayr 40:08You know, some directors I guess come in with this vision, it has to be like that, and everybody is a, a marionette, like, in, in their hands-

Tim Fulton 40:15Right

David Danzmayr 40:15... who are kind of like a, a puppet who they kind of, like, basically lead. And every movement and every way of delivery has to be exactly like the director envisions it, and they pull it off. And some directors come in and they work with w- who they have and what they have, and they form that into a coesi- cohesive whole, and that can work as well very good. So it, it really depends on what you want to achieve. I'm trying not to dictate everything, but I'm trying to, to have a strong enough will so that people definitely can have an orientation from me, and that they know exactly what I'm, how I'm guiding them through, through the process. But without taking at least... It's very, it's, it's generally with leadership. Like, when you look at a coach of a football team or so, you know, you-

Tim Fulton 40:57Uh-huh

David Danzmayr 40:57... I guess you're dealing also with strong personalities, and everybody-

Tim Fulton 41:00Yeah

David Danzmayr 41:00... wants to be a star. But as the coach, the only thing you're interested in is that your team wins.

Tim Fulton 41:05Right.

David Danzmayr 41:06You know?

Tim Fulton 41:06That's the job.

David Danzmayr 41:06If it looks ugly, if that person can be the star or that person, or who in the end makes the touchdown, you know, if you win, you're a successful coach. And I think as a conductor it's, it's not unsimilar, you know? As long as the concert sounds great and, and you have the feeling you really represent the composer well and the audience has a great experience, I think that's really the way you're trying to go. And-

Tim Fulton 41:29It doesn't matter if you're incorporating every single opinion-

David Danzmayr 41:32It, it, that's absolutely

Tim Fulton 41:33... of every musician

David Danzmayr 41:33... that's absolutely.

Tim Fulton 41:34Right?

David Danzmayr 41:34And also, also from yourself, from your own perspective. It's, and it's tough, you know?

Tim Fulton 41:38Yeah.

David Danzmayr 41:38It's a touch and go. You have to be, you have to know-

Tim Fulton 41:41Well, it's, it's leadership

David Danzmayr 41:41... when is it worth to really push-

Tim Fulton 41:43Right

David Danzmayr 41:43... you know, for your idea because you have really the belief that that idea is the way to unlock it and, and to make it work. Or when do you have the feeling now you're just frustrating your colleagues for actually very little return. Is that worth it, you know? Because you're-

Tim Fulton 42:00Right

David Danzmayr 42:00... sacrificing, sacrificing something. I mean, sometimes it's a, it's a live thing, you know?

Tim Fulton 42:06Yeah.

David Danzmayr 42:06Also in rehearsal you, you, you make decisions on the spot. It's a live thing. But I think still the most important thing, and I think that's in many leadership jobs, is if people believe, if, if you can make people believe, you know, and can make people believe in themselves and perform to their highest strength, I still think that's the most important thing. Like, it's unbelievable just to hear the difference of an orchestra of people who are very good but just play-

Tim Fulton 42:35Right

David Danzmayr 42:36... and to hear an orchestra who has people who are very good and play to the best of their ability.

Tim Fulton 42:42And are working together.

David Danzmayr 42:43You know, and working together, and, and, and everybody just gives everything and, and contributes. To achieve that with ProMusica is fortunately not, uh, particularly hard because people are extremely self-motivated. But still, you know, still there is, you, you, you, you-

Tim Fulton 42:58There's still work to do

David Danzmayr 42:59... you still... Well, you know-

Tim Fulton 42:59Right

David Danzmayr 42:59... motivating people and reminding them of, sometimes subconsciously reminding them to give everything, you know, in, in the moment is, is, is, is really very much what, what you need to do as a conductor.

Tim Fulton 43:11Yeah. Great. David, thank you so much for your time.

David Danzmayr 43:14Thank you. No, thank you. It's awesome talking to you. Thank you.

Tim Fulton 43:26Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite musician. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.