2017 Year in Review

Tim Fulton 0:09Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week I sat down with Anne and Walker Evans, the owners of Columbus Underground, for our year-end roundup of the top 10 stories on Columbus Underground. We also covered the inside scoop on the latest developments in central Ohio, public life and culture, and some of the great things happening in our city to watch for in 2018. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored this week by Little Rock Bar. Little Rock Bar is located at 944 North Fourth Street in Italian Village. With 30 beers on tap, Little Rock Bar has happy hour from 4:00 to 7:00 every day. Every Tuesday, get $3 draft beers all night while you enjoy Rock Your Cock Off Karaoke. Wednesdays is Everybody's a Comedian, hosted by Travis Haywisher. It's like trivia, but you prove your snark instead of smarts. Info, hours, and upcoming events at littlerockbar.net. Everyone's night should have a little rock. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Anne and Walker Evans, the founders and proprietors of Columbus Underground. How are you guys doing?

Anne Evans 1:50Good. Hi, Tim.

Walker Evans 1:51Really good.

Tim Fulton 1:51Good. We're talking about basically the year in review. We're talking about the biggest stories on Columbus Underground, some other things that happened around Columbus. I wanna punch through this list of the top 10 stories. Up first, the opening of The Juniper, which is the rooftop patio on top of the Smith Brothers Building. Also, the rooftop patio trend happening around Columbus. How did this happen, Walker?

Walker Evans 2:16How did Juniper happen specifically?

Tim Fulton 2:18I mean, how did, like, rooftops is, you know, pretty popular thing in other cities, even, you know, Cincinnati and Cleveland, New York City, there's a lot. That's sort of a function of having a high density area-

Walker Evans 2:32Yeah

Tim Fulton 2:32... is why, why they tend to happen. What do you think inspired Columbus to sorta jump on the bandwagon? 'Cause f- frankly, we're not sort of at that density yet.

Walker Evans 2:41Yeah. Probably there was some inspiration that came from other cities, just having cool restaurant venues-

Tim Fulton 2:46Mm-hmm

Walker Evans 2:46... and bars and ho- hotels that have those kinds of facilities, so.

Tim Fulton 2:50Right.

Walker Evans 2:51Juniper was one of the first kinda large ones in the central part of the city to jump on that bandwagon, get it open, you know, before some of the others that are still in the works right now. But it's also on to-

Tim Fulton 3:00What else is coming at this point?

Walker Evans 3:02The Huntington Center has talked about a rooftop, which would probably be the highest one-

Tim Fulton 3:06Right

Walker Evans 3:06... being about 30 floors up. The Wood Companies office building that is being developed at 711 North High Street-

Tim Fulton 3:12Okay

Walker Evans 3:13... will also have one. I think it'll be a Cameron Mitchell concept on top of that building.

Tim Fulton 3:16Okay.

Walker Evans 3:17And the Short North Moxy Hotel that Crawford Hoying is building on the old Haiku site-

Tim Fulton 3:22Oh, okay

Walker Evans 3:23... will alch- also have a, a bar rooftop. So there are a couple, a couple pretty prominent urban locations. And then of course the smaller ones.

Tim Fulton 3:30Right. Well, we wanna give credit here to, I believe, the first rooftop patio in Columbus.

Walker Evans 3:34The first new one, yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:35From sometimes sponsor of this podcast, Little Rock Bar.

Walker Evans 3:39Yeah. It's a great space up there.

Tim Fulton 3:41It's fun. It's fun. The thing that was exciting to me is when that space opened, people would go up there and they would say, "Oh, it feels like we're in a real city." And that would both, like, make me happy and also I'd be like, "We are in a real fucking city." Like, what are you ta- We're in the 15th largest metropolitan area in the country. What are you talking about?

Walker Evans 4:02Yeah.

Tim Fulton 4:02But-

Anne Evans 4:02I think we'd only ever had in the past a couple fancy restaurants on top of the skyscrapers downtown.

Tim Fulton 4:09Yeah. Well-

Anne Evans 4:10But they went away.

Tim Fulton 4:11And rest in peace. Uh, was it Nationwide One? What did they-

Walker Evans 4:14One, I think it was One Nationwide.

Tim Fulton 4:14One Nationwide.

Anne Evans 4:15Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 4:15The restaurant at the top of the One Nationwide building. Yeah.

Walker Evans 4:19The other really nice one that opened recently is, uh, the, on top of the AC Hotel in Dublin.

Anne Evans 4:24Basso.

Tim Fulton 4:26Really?

Anne Evans 4:26Yeah.

Walker Evans 4:26Yeah.

Anne Evans 4:26It's beautiful.

Walker Evans 4:27Yeah.

Tim Fulton 4:27What does it overlook?

Walker Evans 4:29Uh-

Anne Evans 4:29The river, the roundabout.

Tim Fulton 4:31Yeah.

Anne Evans 4:32It has a beautiful sunset. It overlooks historic downtown Dublin.

Tim Fulton 4:36Okay, cool.

Anne Evans 4:36And the sun sets right into that area. And it has trees.

Tim Fulton 4:41Nice.

Anne Evans 4:41Right now they're all bare and you look at the river, but-

Tim Fulton 4:43Okay

Anne Evans 4:44... with fall and spring, it really hits.

Tim Fulton 4:46And it's a public space, it's open?

Walker Evans 4:48Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 4:48Or is it just an event space?

Anne Evans 4:50It's both. You can rent it out and reserve it, or you can also go up there.

Tim Fulton 4:54And Jun- Juniper does have limited sort of public hours as well.

Walker Evans 4:58Yeah. It's, it's open during the week, I wanna say, like, Tuesday through Thursday-

Tim Fulton 5:02I think that's right

Walker Evans 5:02... it's open to the public, and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday it's an event space.

Tim Fulton 5:06Gotcha.

Walker Evans 5:07Yeah.

Tim Fulton 5:07Gotcha. So get up there for, uh, some cocktails.

Walker Evans 5:09Yeah.

Tim Fulton 5:10Number nine on the list, the final Independence Day. We have talked about Independence Day and my confusion about why it ended, and what's going to happen with the, the resources, both the financial resources and frankly the, the goodwill and the, for lack of a better term, mailing list that they've built up. Any reflections on Independence Day from you?

Walker Evans 5:34I mean, I think people were, you know-

Tim Fulton 5:36I mean, you were there from the beginning. We both were. Like, you weren't really involved. I was involved I think in year two.

Walker Evans 5:42Yeah.

Anne Evans 5:42And then you volunteered, got that T-shirt.

Walker Evans 5:44That's right, yeah.

Tim Fulton 5:45You love that damn T-shirt.

Walker Evans 5:48Yeah. I mean, when it was on Gay Street, our offices were right there.

Tim Fulton 5:50Right.

Walker Evans 5:50So we were pretty excited to see that, that sorta festival, you know, kinda take off and, and start to grow. And then it moved over to Franklinton and kinda took on a, a f- a different life over there. And-

Tim Fulton 5:59Right

Walker Evans 6:00You know, it was bittersweet news. It's understandable, you know, that people wanna move on and do some other things, but a lot of people also-

Tim Fulton 6:05But it's a lot of work.

Walker Evans 6:07Yeah.

Tim Fulton 6:07You know, I think there's s- we were talking beforehand, and I will sort of attribute this statement to myself if no one else wants to own it, that, you know, the folks involved, and I know them all, I think, and I respect them, and they all do really good work. I think that there was some reticence to hand over the keys to the truck, basically, to let somebody else take it on, and they... Nobody was making money.

Walker Evans 6:31Right.

Tim Fulton 6:32Right? No-

Walker Evans 6:32Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 6:32... they weren't able to establish a structure in which people were able to be paid a, a living wage in order to do this, 'cause it was a year-long, at least a six-month-long job every year.

Walker Evans 6:43Right.

Tim Fulton 6:44A- and it did what it intended to do, right?

Walker Evans 6:46Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 6:46Like, it built up the downtown area. It helped Franklinton then, and it sort of ran its course.

Anne Evans 6:54Yeah, perhaps it was just becoming too mainstream.

Tim Fulton 6:57You think so?

Anne Evans 6:58Mm, it was pretty popular.

Tim Fulton 7:00Well-

Anne Evans 7:00Which kind of is not exactly what-

Tim Fulton 7:03So it's, so-

Anne Evans 7:04... the feel is

Tim Fulton 7:04... so what you're saying is, is it wasn't hipster anymore.

Anne Evans 7:07Yeah.

Tim Fulton 7:08And they were like- ... "Mm-mm, don't want people from the burbs here."

Walker Evans 7:12Well, I mean, they were probably looking at at least a temporary relocation for the next year.

Anne Evans 7:19Commute's getting tough in Franklinton right now.

Tim Fulton 7:20Okay. If-

Walker Evans 7:21If not permanent

Tim Fulton 7:21... oh, yeah, because of the construction in that area.

Walker Evans 7:23Yeah, yeah. And I mean, the big reason they had to leave Gay Street was because it had kind of outgrown, you know, what it was supposed to do and be there.

Tim Fulton 7:31Right.

Walker Evans 7:32And s- and some of the businesses there didn't like having all the closures and-

Tim Fulton 7:36Yeah

Walker Evans 7:36... and all of that.

Tim Fulton 7:37That's something, too.

Walker Evans 7:37Yeah, so they kinda moved over to Franklinton where it was a little bit of-

Tim Fulton 7:40It was more accommodating to them.

Walker Evans 7:42Yeah, yeah. It was, it was kind of an empty blank slate-

Tim Fulton 7:45Right

Walker Evans 7:45... for them to be able to do things over there. And the existing businesses were there, that were there, like 400 West Rich and Strong Water and Land Grant, were, like, the right kind of partners to be there. But-

Tim Fulton 7:54Right

Walker Evans 7:55... once you start moving in 1,000 new residents and all these new apartment units, you know, they're gonna start grumbling about street closures and all that sorta stuff-

Tim Fulton 8:03Yeah

Walker Evans 8:03... in another year or two, so do they keep moving, you know, and kinda keep outgrowing neighborhoods they're going into, kinda keep getting kicked out? It's almost the story of, like, the artists in the Short North, you know?

Tim Fulton 8:13Right.

Walker Evans 8:13They, they were the early adopters, and then rents went up. The need for them, you know, the galleries were replaced by restaurants.

Tim Fulton 8:19Right.

Walker Evans 8:20They had to move on, so how, how long?

Tim Fulton 8:21The boutiques w- were replaced by bars.

Walker Evans 8:24Yeah.

Tim Fulton 8:24Yeah.

Walker Evans 8:24Yeah.

Tim Fulton 8:24'Cause you just can't afford to do that.

Walker Evans 8:26Right. So you kind of always get... You're getting chased out of an area that you're helping to bring to life.

Tim Fulton 8:31Right.

Walker Evans 8:33That can't feel good.

Tim Fulton 8:34No, but we do salute the founders and the people that ran Independence Day.

Walker Evans 8:39Yeah.

Tim Fulton 8:39It was a fantastic festival.

Walker Evans 8:40Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 8:40I hope that they all continue pursuing their o- other events and stuff like that, making the city a better place and, quote-unquote, "putting Columbus on the map." Number eight on the list, Scioto Peninsula Development. What's going on there, on the peninsula?

Walker Evans 8:56You haven't read the news?

Tim Fulton 8:58I saw the headline. I... These are the most, some of the most popular stories on-

Walker Evans 9:02Yeah

Tim Fulton 9:02... the website, and it's the stuff that I'm like, "Oh, great, another thing."

Walker Evans 9:07Yeah.

Tim Fulton 9:08Where, like, is the development of the, the rest of the area behind Huntington Park, is that on... Did that make the top 10?

Walker Evans 9:16Uh-

Tim Fulton 9:16It was fairly recent that it was announced.

Walker Evans 9:18You're talking about the, uh, the Schottenstein thing?

Tim Fulton 9:20Yeah.

Walker Evans 9:20That was canceled.

Tim Fulton 9:22Well, yeah, it was canceled- ... but the s- the news about it.

Walker Evans 9:24No, I don't think it made the top 10 list. It was pretty high up there b- in terms of development and stuff, but yeah, the, the Scioto Peninsula Development was up there because there were kind of different stages to the announcement, so-

Tim Fulton 9:34Okay

Walker Evans 9:34... it was kind of newsworthy throughout the year when they were kind of announcing that something was coming, when they were looking for different developers, and when, most recently when they solidified the development company, Buckingham, out of Indianapolis-

Tim Fulton 9:46Okay

Walker Evans 9:46... to put together the whole plan for the 21-acre site development, so.

Tim Fulton 9:50And have they finalized that plan, or is it still-

Walker Evans 9:52They unveiled sort of renderings of the first stage-

Tim Fulton 9:54Okay

Walker Evans 9:54... what that's gonna look like. It kinda follows what the Columbus Downtown Development Corporation wanted to see there in terms of numbers of residential units-

Tim Fulton 10:02Okay

Walker Evans 10:03... office space, public spaces, parking garage spaces, all that sorta stuff. So just another large scale, 21-acre kind of chunk of the city being developed.

Tim Fulton 10:14Well, it's g- I don't... It's good that it's happening, I guess, that-

Walker Evans 10:17Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 10:18... they're... You know, we continually talk about surface parking lots, and some of that is getting solved, but we're not having the infill that we truly need to yet.

Walker Evans 10:26Yeah.

Tim Fulton 10:27And we're still, we're developing that. There will be some development of the, you know, for lack of a better term, the Schottenstein site, the old State Pen site, 'cause that's part of what that is, right? It's the State Pen site, or is that fully-

Walker Evans 10:39So I know, 'cause there's a couple big chunks of land over there.

Tim Fulton 10:42Right.

Walker Evans 10:43So, so the old Jaeger Machine site that NRI, Nationwide Realty Investor, owns, which is further down Nationwide Boulevard. It's where the casino was going to be built.

Tim Fulton 10:51That's right. Okay.

Walker Evans 10:51That, that's NRI. They've, they've said that they wanna do something residential over there. They kind of shifted their attention to Granby Yard, I believe-

Tim Fulton 10:58Okay

Walker Evans 10:58... in the local landscape, and so they haven't really announced what they're gonna do there. What Schottenstein was proposing to develop was sort of a triangular chunk of land bounded by some of the railroad tracks-

Tim Fulton 11:08Okay

Walker Evans 11:09... kind of north of Huntington Park.

Tim Fulton 11:10Right.

Walker Evans 11:11Up against, like, the Vine Goodale connector street.

Tim Fulton 11:13Right.

Walker Evans 11:14But then they came back and said that there's too many limitations with that site to do-

Tim Fulton 11:18Okay

Walker Evans 11:18... what, what they wanted to do.

Tim Fulton 11:18'Cause originally they were gonna build, like, an almost insular communi-

Walker Evans 11:23Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 11:23... not like gated, but a community in that you, you've got residential, you've got office, you've got retail-

Walker Evans 11:29Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 11:29... that, like, you could kind of live in this magic Schottenstein world.

Walker Evans 11:34And never leave.

Tim Fulton 11:34Uh, and never leave.

Walker Evans 11:35Yeah.

Tim Fulton 11:36But at some point they will develop it.

Walker Evans 11:39Eventually, yeah. So, so the Scioto Peninsula thing, too, the other piece of that was the, the first phase was the construction of the new park.

Tim Fulton 11:47Uh-huh.

Walker Evans 11:47Right on the other side of COSI.

Tim Fulton 11:48Okay.

Walker Evans 11:49So it was formerly surface parking lots that served COSI. That's all been buried into two floors of underground parking-

Tim Fulton 11:55Right

Walker Evans 11:55... with a new public park on top.

Tim Fulton 11:58Right, and that's great.

Walker Evans 11:59Yeah.

Tim Fulton 11:59And once it's done, the festivals will be able to sort of take advantage of that space as well.

Walker Evans 12:04Yeah. And so it's open to the public now. They've taken down all the construction fencing. They're gonna do a, like, a grand opening ribbon cutting kickoff in the spring once it's nice.

Tim Fulton 12:12Okay.

Walker Evans 12:12But there's a little playground over there. We've taken the kids over.

Tim Fulton 12:15Oh, I haven't seen it.

Walker Evans 12:16Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 12:16Great. Awesome. Number seven of our, on our list of top 10 stories this year. And again, some of these are sort of joined together in the interest of not having to... I don't think I have to talk about much more development even. Number seven of, on the list, coming soon announcements, some of the highlights, Food Hall coming to the Short North. What space is that gonna be in?

Walker Evans 12:39Uh-

Tim Fulton 12:39Oh, that's on the Montecristo cigar site, right? Food Hall?

Walker Evans 12:44No, I believe that, that's something else. It's the, um, it's right n- it's just north of Standard Hall.

Tim Fulton 12:50Just north of Standard Hall?

Walker Evans 12:51Just north of Standard Hall. Yeah, I think it was maybe a, uh, like a blood plasma donation-

Tim Fulton 12:54Well, it was a bloo-

Walker Evans 12:55Yeah

Tim Fulton 12:55... it was a plasma bank, and then there was a, a pop-up MLS shop when there were playoffs-

Walker Evans 13:00Yes

Tim Fulton 13:00... here in town.

Walker Evans 13:01Yes. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 13:02So they'll be developing that area.

Walker Evans 13:03Yeah.

Tim Fulton 13:04Apparently, we're getting Chick-fil-A.

Walker Evans 13:06Mm-hmm. Some urban Chick-fil-A for the first time. Anne can talk about this one.

Anne Evans 13:12I mean, urban, I suppose, but with a suburban feel in Grandview Yard.

Walker Evans 13:16Yeah.

Anne Evans 13:17Right across from the market district.

Tim Fulton 13:19I, for one, will not be enjoying their delicious chicken sandwiches just because of their politics.

Walker Evans 13:24Yeah.

Tim Fulton 13:25Um-

Anne Evans 13:25Well, and they got rid of coleslaw, so.

Tim Fulton 13:28Oh.

Anne Evans 13:28Yeah.

Tim Fulton 13:30Then there's l- no reason to go there.

Walker Evans 13:32Yeah. That's a real political statement.

Anne Evans 13:34They were just- ... yeah, saying it's unhealthy, but why are you eating any of it really?

Tim Fulton 13:38Right.

Anne Evans 13:38Come on.

Tim Fulton 13:38It's fried chicken, folks.

Walker Evans 13:40Yeah. Well, the other location on campus will be very urban. It's going in the, um-

Anne Evans 13:45Mm, true

Walker Evans 13:46... the Wellington building.

Tim Fulton 13:47Oh, okay.

Walker Evans 13:48Yeah.

Tim Fulton 13:49Brewdog bars, where are those gonna be?

Walker Evans 13:51One is going in the Short North, kinda close to the Garden Theatre.

Tim Fulton 13:54Okay.

Walker Evans 13:54The other is going in Franklinton, just almost right across the street from Rehab Tavern.

Tim Fulton 13:58And are those gonna have to be, what's the word? Are those gonna have to be, like, brewery bars? Like, where they gonna have to do some brewing on site in order to get around, like, the liquor laws?

Walker Evans 14:10I don't know.

Tim Fulton 14:12So what I'm talking about here is there's, there's a reason why you don't see Budweiser bars-

Walker Evans 14:17Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 14:17... on every corner, 'cause you can't be a manufacturer and a sell direct to customer-

Walker Evans 14:23Gotcha

Tim Fulton 14:23... in, in the state of Ohio, in most states, I believe. And so that would mean that similar to Land Grant, Seventh Son-

Walker Evans 14:32Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 14:32... and places like that, it is s- it'll have to be, like, a mini brewery bar.

Walker Evans 14:36Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:36So that'll be fun.

Walker Evans 14:38Yeah, probably then they'll, they'll have some sort of small batch on site.

Tim Fulton 14:42I would assume.

Walker Evans 14:42Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:43Yeah. Any other coming soon announcements to mention?

Walker Evans 14:46Well, I, I should also tie in too that the Brewdog in Franklinton will also have a rooftop patio.

Tim Fulton 14:50Okay.

Walker Evans 14:51So that's, that's another one coming soon. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:52Great.

Walker Evans 14:53Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:54Anne, your favorite, rounding up number six on our list of top 10 stories of the year, the Chinese Lantern Festival returns.

Anne Evans 15:01It is my favorite, and some people were wondering, "Is this gonna be kinda the same?" 'Cause they were here last year.

Tim Fulton 15:07Okay.

Anne Evans 15:08And so when it returns, like, how much are they really changing? But they pretty much changed all of it.

Tim Fulton 15:13Okay.

Anne Evans 15:14Different lanterns. They brought back the large dragon. That's open through January 7th, I think.

Tim Fulton 15:19Okay.

Anne Evans 15:20Yeah. I really like that. And then-

Tim Fulton 15:22Kids like it.

Anne Evans 15:23Yeah, kids do like it. We just had the entire school of Hubbard Mastery School-

Tim Fulton 15:28Mm-hmm

Anne Evans 15:28... got to go over there and enjoy a field trip, and that's a partnership we have with Columbus Underground and then the Chinese Lantern Festival.

Tim Fulton 15:36And it's-

Anne Evans 15:36So they enjoyed it.

Tim Fulton 15:38And it's cool both during the day and at night. Is that right?

Anne Evans 15:41I think it's just open at night.

Tim Fulton 15:42Okay. Got it. Got it.

Anne Evans 15:44'Cause they have everything lit up and on, and then they move the performers inside, so none of those got rained out.

Tim Fulton 15:50Okay. Cool.

Walker Evans 15:51Yeah, and with the sun setting at 4:30, I mean, you can enjoy it, uh-

Tim Fulton 15:56Right

Walker Evans 15:56... early in the-

Anne Evans 15:57Yeah

Walker Evans 15:57... evening.

Tim Fulton 15:57It could be a, an evening affair.

Walker Evans 15:58Yeah.

Anne Evans 15:59It's a new, it's still new, different light event happening in the city.

Tim Fulton 16:04Yeah.

Anne Evans 16:04I mean, there's a lot of others going on, but it's cool.

Tim Fulton 16:07Yeah, and popular among readers.

Anne Evans 16:08Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:09Number five on the list, the new Quarry Metro Park announced. Where are they in terms of timing of... First of all, tell me the location of it.

Walker Evans 16:19It is north of Trebeaux between 33 and, like, the river, I guess, would be on the eastern boundary, and then Dublin Road on the western boundary.

Tim Fulton 16:28And the activities that they intend to offer there, there's gonna be some, like, rock climbing. There's gonna be bike trail.

Walker Evans 16:37Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:37What else are they offering?

Walker Evans 16:38Yeah, the, uh, I don't think they're using the word extreme sports, but kind of the more active, more, more than you see in a lot of other metro parks.

Anne Evans 16:46Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:46It's not for old ladies to walk around at lunch.

Anne Evans 16:48Well, you can also do birding and chilling out.

Tim Fulton 16:50You can also be an old lady-

Anne Evans 16:52Grilling and chilling out

Tim Fulton 16:52... walking around at lunch.

Walker Evans 16:54Right.

Anne Evans 16:54If you want.

Walker Evans 16:54Shout out to the old ladies.

Anne Evans 16:55But I think there's the hope that it'll bring some maybe larger extreme sports here.

Tim Fulton 17:02Okay.

Anne Evans 17:03Like-

Tim Fulton 17:03Oh, that it, that they could, like, actually accommodate-

Anne Evans 17:07Yeah

Tim Fulton 17:07... environmental extreme sports-

Anne Evans 17:09Yeah

Tim Fulton 17:09... like mountain biking.

Walker Evans 17:11Yeah.

Anne Evans 17:11And-

Tim Fulton 17:11There's not gonna be, like, what are they called?

Anne Evans 17:14Dirt bikes.

Walker Evans 17:14Like motocross or something?

Tim Fulton 17:15Like motocross or stuff like that?

Walker Evans 17:17No. No, no, no.

Anne Evans 17:18No, but the quarry-

Tim Fulton 17:19Or ATVs is what I was thinking of.

Anne Evans 17:21The quarry had a special composition of dirt-

Tim Fulton 17:26Okay. Yeah

Anne Evans 17:26... that really lends itself to building those sorts of courses.

Tim Fulton 17:30Okay.

Walker Evans 17:31Mm-hmm.

Anne Evans 17:31So it's kinda cool-

Tim Fulton 17:33Great

Anne Evans 17:33... that we can get that here.

Walker Evans 17:34Almost like a clay type.

Anne Evans 17:35Mm-hmm.

Walker Evans 17:35Yeah.

Tim Fulton 17:36And when are they slated to open?

Anne Evans 17:37It's a little while.

Walker Evans 17:39Two years or so? Yeah.

Anne Evans 17:40Yeah.

Tim Fulton 17:40Okay.

Walker Evans 17:41There's still a lot... I mean, even though it's a natural space, they have to build the infrastructure for it.

Tim Fulton 17:46Right.

Walker Evans 17:46There's no, there's no road access. There's no electric-

Tim Fulton 17:49Okay

Walker Evans 17:49... or plumbing. The, the kinda things that they need to install on the site, but they do wanna have some sort of facility, and I know they're looking to partner with different people, so none of this is completely set in stone, but partner with someone where you could go there and rent a bike, or you could go there and rent a kayak. And so you can take part in, like, lessons or classes or kinda go out on the water and do your thing.

Tim Fulton 18:08Cool.

Walker Evans 18:08Um, yeah, make it really engaging. The whole land is sort of being divided, too, into, like, a public-private partnership.

Tim Fulton 18:13Okay.

Walker Evans 18:13So some of the area will be developed into homes.

Tim Fulton 18:15Okay.

Walker Evans 18:16And then the other side will be metro park.

Tim Fulton 18:18Very expensive homes.

Walker Evans 18:20Probably. Yeah. They're new.

Tim Fulton 18:22Number four on the list of top 10 stories this year, the big closures. Notably, the Giant Eagle in Victorian Village, the closing of Salt and Pine downtown, the Anderson's leaving the market, or did they close all of them?

Walker Evans 18:36They closed all of them.

Tim Fulton 18:37Okay.

Walker Evans 18:37Yeah.

Tim Fulton 18:38Movie Tavern, Dirty Frank's in Westgate, and, you know, innumerably more.

Anne Evans 18:44We also saw the original Max & Erma's close.

Tim Fulton 18:47Okay.

Anne Evans 18:48Robert Mason-

Tim Fulton 18:49Yep

Anne Evans 18:49... closed. After celebrating 10 years, Rivet decided to stop having their actual brick and mortar store and move-

Tim Fulton 18:58They're just going online

Anne Evans 19:00... online, and some pop-ups, and doing festivals.

Tim Fulton 19:04Yeah.

Anne Evans 19:04And What The Rock had just moved in January of earlier this year to Clintonville, and they decided to close up shop.

Tim Fulton 19:12Which was a great store. I never quite understood how they were able to, you know, keep it going for as long as they did.

Anne Evans 19:21They're also moving to online too.

Tim Fulton 19:23Right, so-

Anne Evans 19:24So maybe it-

Tim Fulton 19:25It's a less expense. It's, you know-

Anne Evans 19:27Yeah

Tim Fulton 19:27... it's good for them, I hope.

Anne Evans 19:29Yeah, and we also had Double Happiness close up-

Tim Fulton 19:32Mm-hmm

Anne Evans 19:33... earlier, a couple weeks ago. The highly applauded Rooks Tavern unfortunately closed.

Tim Fulton 19:40Now, where was that?

Anne Evans 19:41It was on campus on Chittenden.

Walker Evans 19:44Chittenden, I think.

Tim Fulton 19:44Okay.

Anne Evans 19:45Yeah.

Tim Fulton 19:46Oh, that was-

Anne Evans 19:47It had a-

Tim Fulton 19:47... the barbecue place.

Walker Evans 19:48Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 19:48Yeah.

Anne Evans 19:48Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 19:49Bad location.

Walker Evans 19:51Yeah, I think that-

Anne Evans 19:51Possibly, yeah

Walker Evans 19:52... had a lot to do with it.

Anne Evans 19:53Um-

Tim Fulton 19:53'Cause it was up by Summit, right?

Walker Evans 19:55Yes, like almost-

Anne Evans 19:56Mm-hmm

Walker Evans 19:56... on the corner there.

Tim Fulton 19:57Yeah.

Walker Evans 19:57Yeah.

Tim Fulton 19:57So by necessity it ends up being a destination, 'cause kids aren't walking-

Walker Evans 20:03Right

Tim Fulton 20:03... you know, right past it constantly and-

Walker Evans 20:05Yeah.

Tim Fulton 20:06Yeah.

Walker Evans 20:06It wasn't priced for students either.

Tim Fulton 20:08Right.

Walker Evans 20:09I don't think they took Buck ID.

Tim Fulton 20:10Oh, no.

Walker Evans 20:11So

Tim Fulton 20:12That's a whole market you're losing out on.

Walker Evans 20:14Right.

Tim Fulton 20:15Anything else on big closures?

Walker Evans 20:18We covered a lot of large scale retail news this year-

Tim Fulton 20:23Okay

Walker Evans 20:23... which a lot of other publications, uh, all across the country were, were covering and kind of dubbing the retailpocalypse-

Tim Fulton 20:29Okay

Walker Evans 20:29... of 2017. We generally only covered it when it affected, like, local store closures and things like that, but-

Tim Fulton 20:35Okay

Walker Evans 20:35... the list was disturbingly large this year.

Tim Fulton 20:38Okay.

Walker Evans 20:39The, the biggest local contributor to that would've been The Limited, which closed all of their retail stores this year.

Tim Fulton 20:44Okay.

Walker Evans 20:45American Apparel closed everything up.

Anne Evans 20:47Yeah.

Walker Evans 20:47So that-

Anne Evans 20:47Yeah, it was sad to see that, as kinda like the flagship, uh, north end of Short North.

Tim Fulton 20:52Right.

Walker Evans 20:53Yeah.

Anne Evans 20:53But-

Walker Evans 20:54Yeah, one of the big chains

Anne Evans 20:54... it went away.

Walker Evans 20:55Wet Seal closed everything. RadioShack closed everything. Gander Mountain closed everything.

Tim Fulton 21:00Okay.

Walker Evans 21:01There were a lot of other stores that just closed a lot of locations, so not entirely. Like, Toys "R" Us filed for bankruptcy.

Tim Fulton 21:07Right.

Walker Evans 21:08Gymboree, Ann Taylor, Dress Barn, Lane Bryant, Sears, Michael Kors, Payless Shoes.

Tim Fulton 21:13Jesus.

Walker Evans 21:14Rue21, GameStop, H.H. Gregg, and JCPenney's. All-

Tim Fulton 21:17So-

Walker Evans 21:18... all each closed hundreds of stores per each one that I just mentioned.

Tim Fulton 21:22Give me your hot take then. W- Is this simply just-

Walker Evans 21:25Starts with an A.

Anne Evans 21:26Amazon opened their small pickup-

Walker Evans 21:29Starts with an A.

Anne Evans 21:29Pickup location.

Tim Fulton 21:30Ends with an N.

Walker Evans 21:31Yeah. Yeah.

Anne Evans 21:33It's tough.

Walker Evans 21:33A, a lot of them specifically said online competition is just chipping away at brick and mortar.

Tim Fulton 21:39Well, and it's why you see so much investment being given to, or being done by Target and Walmart specifically-

Walker Evans 21:46Yeah, yeah

Tim Fulton 21:47... to enter into that online marketplace.

Walker Evans 21:49Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 21:50'Cause otherwise you're gonna, you know...

Walker Evans 21:52Yeah.

Tim Fulton 21:52We need brick and mortar to an extent.

Walker Evans 21:54Right.

Tim Fulton 21:54We don't... It's gonna end up being survival of the fittest in terms of we don't need three different mid-price department stores in a market.

Walker Evans 22:05Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:05We need a-

Anne Evans 22:06Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 22:07... you know, a Target, and we need a Walmart. Please do not bring a Walmart into the urban core of Columbus.

Walker Evans 22:13Well, some, some of it too is commodity based realtors are not-

Tim Fulton 22:17Okay

Walker Evans 22:18... like, they, they need to reinvent themselves to be experiential. You need to give me-

Tim Fulton 22:21You're talking about the malls.

Walker Evans 22:22The malls, yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:23Yeah.

Walker Evans 22:23You know, I mentioned Sears and JCPenney's as two of the big, you know, major closures.

Tim Fulton 22:27Well, 'cause the old model was this, this anchor store-

Walker Evans 22:30Right

Tim Fulton 22:30... like a Sears, or a JCPenney, or a Macy's.

Walker Evans 22:33Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:33You know, they call it an anchor 'cause it's holding down that spot for-

Walker Evans 22:37Mm

Tim Fulton 22:37... all the other smaller stores.

Walker Evans 22:38Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:38Like, you know, the, what is it, Rue21? Is that what-

Walker Evans 22:42Rue21, yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:42Like, Rue21, Wet Seal.

Walker Evans 22:45Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 22:45You know, thank God Hot Topic's still going strong.

Walker Evans 22:47Yeah. Well, some of that's probably due to changing consumer behaviors for younger people too. They're more inclined to shop online than maybe their older counterparts, and so those, those places really need to change a lot faster.

Anne Evans 22:59They do, and I think we're seeing success still in the boutiques-

Tim Fulton 23:04Mm-hmm

Anne Evans 23:04... by people, shopkeepers who really have a vision, and they curate-

Tim Fulton 23:11Right

Anne Evans 23:11... a really awesome assortment. So-

Tim Fulton 23:13Mm-hmm

Anne Evans 23:13... if you are like, "I just love going into Tiger Tree because I know I always find something cool-"

Tim Fulton 23:19Right

Anne Evans 23:20... that's something that is, I think, helping that group survive.

Tim Fulton 23:25Yeah. Well, and this sort of gets into our, our next story on the list, number three, big openings, but I've seen a whole lot, and I haven't had the opportunity to patronize them yet, but a lot of men's boutiques.

Walker Evans 23:36Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 23:36Like The Kiln. There's the place right here. What's the place at Gay and High?

Walker Evans 23:41Uh, Flying Gent.

Tim Fulton 23:42Yeah.

Walker Evans 23:42Mm-hmm. Samson in the Short North.

Tim Fulton 23:44Samson in the Short North.

Walker Evans 23:45Yeah.

Tim Fulton 23:46And they're all, like, independently owned-

Walker Evans 23:49Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 23:49... independently curated. Some of them even have some of their own, like, mini label stuff-

Walker Evans 23:53Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 23:54... similar to what Robert Mason was doing with leather goods.

Walker Evans 23:57Yeah.

Tim Fulton 23:58We sort of, like, gleaned over it, but, like, I think the loss of Robert Mason is, is big.

Walker Evans 24:02Yeah.

Tim Fulton 24:03We will link to his interview that I did with him, I think, two years ago. It was well before the closure. That was not due to lack of success.

Walker Evans 24:13Right.

Tim Fulton 24:13It was due to an ongoing litigation involving the fire that closed the original store.

Walker Evans 24:19Right.

Tim Fulton 24:20And I really do hope that, Robert Griffith, if you're listening, I really do hope that they're able to find their, see their way to get it back together-

Walker Evans 24:29Yeah

Tim Fulton 24:29... 'cause it's great.

Anne Evans 24:30Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 24:30Be- and I think that it really is- ... a model that can work, that people do want, like, curated nice office supplies.

Walker Evans 24:38Yeah.

Tim Fulton 24:38As silly as that sounds, I love a good fountain pen.

Walker Evans 24:41Yeah.

Tim Fulton 24:41You know?

Anne Evans 24:42Well, it's true, and you want to have that stuff in your city because those are the sorts of experiences when people go somewhere, they're always like, "Oh, I found this really awesome little shop, and I got this thing."

Tim Fulton 24:52Right.

Anne Evans 24:52"And it just made my visit here so cool."

Tim Fulton 24:55Yeah. Yeah.

Anne Evans 24:55And if that all goes away-

Tim Fulton 24:57If it's just, like, a couple of sports bars or bro bars- ... it's just, like, "Ugh, Columbus." It's just like Cleveland.

Walker Evans 25:06Yeah. It, it'll be interesting to see what the long tail of this sort of larger chain closure, what that effect that's gonna have on some of our suburban communities as well, because I know specifically the Eastland Mall, which a lot of people don't even realize is still open, just lost both of their two remaining anchors. I think that mall has four anchor locations.

Tim Fulton 25:24Okay.

Walker Evans 25:24And so with the closure of Sears and I think Macy's earlier this year, uh, over there.

Tim Fulton 25:28It's still open?

Walker Evans 25:29Eastland is open. It has zero out of four anchors occupied.

Tim Fulton 25:32Okay.

Anne Evans 25:33Well, I guess how long-

Tim Fulton 25:34And, and Westland is closed, though.

Walker Evans 25:36The Westland Sears just closed, like, within the past-

Anne Evans 25:39And that was it

Walker Evans 25:39... month or two.

Tim Fulton 25:39But there's nothing else there now.

Walker Evans 25:41That is 100% vacant now.

Tim Fulton 25:42And, but Southland is still open, right?

Walker Evans 25:45Uh, I thought it closed a long time ago.

Anne Evans 25:47I thought it just had the school in there.

Tim Fulton 25:49Oh, okay.

Anne Evans 25:50But I'm not sure.

Tim Fulton 25:50Yeah.

Walker Evans 25:51Yeah.

Anne Evans 25:51I guess the Japanese arcade can just take over the old- ... Macy's at Eastland.

Tim Fulton 25:56Right. For-

Anne Evans 25:56Expand into that

Walker Evans 25:57... expand.

Tim Fulton 25:57For those that aren't familiar, yes, there was indeed a Northland at some point.

Walker Evans 26:01Right.

Tim Fulton 26:02It has been closed for, like, 15 years.

Walker Evans 26:04Yeah.

Anne Evans 26:05Yeah.

Tim Fulton 26:05Let's transition that into the big openings we saw. We finally got our IKEA.

Walker Evans 26:10Right.

Tim Fulton 26:10Light of Seven Matches, which is a speakeasy that's attached to-

Walker Evans 26:15Natalie's Coal Fired Pizza?

Tim Fulton 26:16Natalie's Coal Fired Pizza. Biscuit & Branch opened, Fiordono's-

Anne Evans 26:21And already rebranded to just Branch.

Tim Fulton 26:24Oh, Biscuit & Branch is no longer... It's just Branch.

Walker Evans 26:26It's just Branch.

Tim Fulton 26:27Okay.

Anne Evans 26:28To clarify that, it is Branch. It's not just Branch.

Tim Fulton 26:35Branch. It's not the branch. It is not a branch, it is Branch.

Anne Evans 26:39Mm-hmm.

Walker Evans 26:39Branch.

Tim Fulton 26:40Branch. Anything to say there about the big openings? The IKEA's pretty cool.

Walker Evans 26:45Oh, yeah.

Tim Fulton 26:45I gotta admit, it's nice not to have to drive to Cincinnati if I, you know, wanna buy a new bed for my kid.

Walker Evans 26:51Mm-hmm.

Anne Evans 26:51Right. Good for kids stuff.

Tim Fulton 26:54It is-

Anne Evans 26:54Other stuff, too, I'm sure.

Walker Evans 26:57But it's a great example of, like, a large scale retailer that knows how to build an experience into their store.

Tim Fulton 27:01Yeah.

Anne Evans 27:02Mm-hmm.

Walker Evans 27:02You know, it's, it's a... People make a day trip to go to IKEA.

Tim Fulton 27:05Yeah.

Walker Evans 27:05And something like Walmart, they just wanna get in and get out as fast as possible.

Tim Fulton 27:08'Cause it's the worst. Yes.

Anne Evans 27:11Yeah.

Tim Fulton 27:11Again, no Walmart in the center city.

Walker Evans 27:14Yeah.

Anne Evans 27:14We saw Trism open.

Tim Fulton 27:16Mm-hmm.

Anne Evans 27:16People always wonder, "What is that? Is it for me?" But it's a lot of things.

Tim Fulton 27:20What is that? Is it for me?

Anne Evans 27:21It's a lot of things.

Tim Fulton 27:22This is the spa- this is the bar opened by the ANR Group-

Anne Evans 27:27Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 27:27... that also does Crest and a couple other places. This opened in the former Eddie George's space on campus. Have you guys been there?

Walker Evans 27:37Mm-hmm.

Anne Evans 27:37Yeah, we've been there to have meetings and-

Tim Fulton 27:39Okay

Anne Evans 27:40... check it out.

Tim Fulton 27:40'Cause it is an event space, it is a restaurant, it is a bar.

Walker Evans 27:44It's kinda coffee shop-ish-

Anne Evans 27:45Yeah

Walker Evans 27:45... during the day.

Tim Fulton 27:46Really?

Walker Evans 27:47Yeah.

Anne Evans 27:47Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 27:47Okay. Does it-

Walker Evans 27:49Dance club at night.

Anne Evans 27:51Yeah.

Tim Fulton 27:51Does it fill out the... Really?

Anne Evans 27:53Yeah.

Walker Evans 27:53Yeah.

Tim Fulton 27:53Does it fill out the space well?

Walker Evans 27:56The photos I've seen, and, like, videos and stuff on Instagram of it as a dance club at night, it's packed.

Tim Fulton 28:01Okay.

Walker Evans 28:02It looks impressive, yeah.

Tim Fulton 28:03Cool. And it doesn't feel like you're drinking coffee and, like-

Anne Evans 28:08Well, they have a bar.

Tim Fulton 28:09Okay. Well, but, like, if-

Walker Evans 28:11Dur- during the day

Tim Fulton 28:11... you can go there-

Anne Evans 28:12Yeah

Tim Fulton 28:12... have, you know, have a coffee. I assume it doesn't smell like stale beer on the floor.

Anne Evans 28:17I think so.

Tim Fulton 28:18It-

Anne Evans 28:18It's just really open and clean.

Tim Fulton 28:21Okay.

Walker Evans 28:21Yeah.

Anne Evans 28:21It's got this, like, a cement floor.

Walker Evans 28:23It's kind of a flex space the way that it's built.

Tim Fulton 28:25Gotcha.

Anne Evans 28:26Yeah.

Walker Evans 28:26Yeah.

Anne Evans 28:26It's kinda cool.

Tim Fulton 28:27I'll have to go check it out.

Anne Evans 28:29Yeah. Um, we had lots of things expand.

Tim Fulton 28:33Okay.

Anne Evans 28:33Hot Chicken Takeover-

Tim Fulton 28:34Yep

Anne Evans 28:35... opened two more locations.

Walker Evans 28:37Yep.

Anne Evans 28:38Balanced Yoga just opened in German Village.

Tim Fulton 28:40Mm-hmm.

Anne Evans 28:41Acre.

Tim Fulton 28:42System of Strength opened a new location up in Clintonville.

Walker Evans 28:45Mm-hmm.

Anne Evans 28:45Mm-hmm. Si Senor opened two new spots. Stump, Pins just opened their new location in Dublin.

Tim Fulton 28:55Mm-hmm.

Anne Evans 28:56Ray Ray's, they, uh, expanded to Land Grant, and then they also have their other drive-through. Condado, that's going everywhere.

Walker Evans 29:04Yeah, they opened their Pittsburgh location, Easton, and Clintonville, and added catering this year.

Anne Evans 29:10Yeah.

Tim Fulton 29:10Really?

Anne Evans 29:10So lots of stuff happening there.

Walker Evans 29:11Condado's on fire this year.

Anne Evans 29:12Stauf's.

Tim Fulton 29:12We're a taco town, ladies and gentlemen.

Walker Evans 29:14Well, yeah.

Anne Evans 29:15It is good.

Tim Fulton 29:16Yeah.

Anne Evans 29:16Stauf's opened another spot inside of the Idea Foundry, and then Cub Shrub, they opened a second store in Grandview.

Tim Fulton 29:25Yes.

Walker Evans 29:26The other kind of interesting opening this year, both of our distilleries each opened sort of bar restaurants on site, kind of bookending the year. Watershed opened theirs right at the beginning, back in January, and then the Service Bar inside MiddleWest Spirits opened just maybe a month ago.

Tim Fulton 29:42Awesome.

Walker Evans 29:43Yeah.

Tim Fulton 29:44Number two on the roundup of top 10 stories is the Columbus Crew news.

Walker Evans 29:49Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 29:50We all sat down when, in the middle of this and said, "How," you know, "Should the podcast cover it? Like, what do you wanna do?"

Walker Evans 29:56Yeah.

Tim Fulton 29:58I frankly didn't wanna do it until it was, like, done, and it's still not done.

Walker Evans 30:03Right.

Tim Fulton 30:04And you guys have done some great reporting. The Alive has done some great reporting on, like, as it goes on and, like, things should know. I'm sorry, I wanna give a shout-out to 614 Magazine for their sort of, like, here's the overview-

Walker Evans 30:18Mm

Tim Fulton 30:18... and the funniest cover of the year, the, the 86 badge on their cover. What is gonna happen? Like-

Walker Evans 30:28It's gonna move.

Tim Fulton 30:29It is gonna move.

Walker Evans 30:29Uh, yeah. I mean, it seems like that's the direction it's heading.

Tim Fulton 30:32'Cause the MLS is also sort of being more supportive of- ... the owner then of the town

Anne Evans 30:38Yeah, but isn't it in litigation now too?

Tim Fulton 30:40I think DeWine is threatening to-

Anne Evans 30:43Trying

Tim Fulton 30:43... but he's also running for governor, and so, like, I-

Anne Evans 30:45As is everyone else in Ohio.

Tim Fulton 30:47That's... I am not running for... I have not announced. The deadline is not until the end of February, but I'll tell you, I, I am declaring right now-

Walker Evans 30:54Breaking news

Tim Fulton 30:55... I will not be running for governor-

Walker Evans 30:57Aw

Tim Fulton 30:57... of the state of Ohio next year.

Walker Evans 31:00Ooh.

Tim Fulton 31:01So.

Walker Evans 31:01Leave that door open.

Tim Fulton 31:03Yeah. I do, actually, let's give a preview for January. I expect to be able to break news of a gubernatorial candidate on this podcast in the month of January.

Walker Evans 31:15All right.

Anne Evans 31:16Ooh.

Tim Fulton 31:16Stay tuned. So at this point, I mean, it's gonna end up going back and forth. There is definitely going to be another full season in Columbus.

Walker Evans 31:26Yes.

Tim Fulton 31:26What's interesting to me at this point is because you do sort of have to just say, "Well, we tried. We did our best." I think that Ginther, the folks at the partnership, the ill-advised announcement from the foundation, I think everybody sort of, like, put in their, you know, their best effort to get it done. They've been pretty open and transparent about it. That's great. And so we sort of need to... If it's c- if it's inevitable, that's what happens. But what's interesting now is, you know, what do you do with that site?

Walker Evans 31:58Right.

Tim Fulton 31:59The county owns it, right? Or no. The-

Walker Evans 32:01Uh, I think it's the state

Tim Fulton 32:02The state owns it.

Anne Evans 32:03State.

Walker Evans 32:03Yeah.

Tim Fulton 32:03The city rents the land from the state, 'cause again, it's adjacent to the-

Walker Evans 32:08Fairgrounds

Tim Fulton 32:09... fairgrounds.

Anne Evans 32:10Yeah. My bet is it just rolls into the fairgrounds.

Tim Fulton 32:13And they just tear it down? Or maybe they make-

Anne Evans 32:14Well, they have an event venue.

Tim Fulton 32:16Yeah.

Anne Evans 32:16They have concerts there.

Tim Fulton 32:17Yeah. True. So if they can maintain it and, you know-

Walker Evans 32:22Yeah

Tim Fulton 32:22... oh, maybe we'll get a rugby team- ... or maybe we'll get, uh, you know, there are lower tier football and, you know, there are other things that could go there.

Anne Evans 32:33Yeah.

Walker Evans 32:33Right.

Anne Evans 32:33Practice fields.

Tim Fulton 32:34Yeah.

Anne Evans 32:35We had our taco event there. So it's an event venue too.

Tim Fulton 32:38Yeah.

Walker Evans 32:38Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Rock on the Range does really well there.

Anne Evans 32:42Yeah. It does.

Tim Fulton 32:42Sells out every year.

Walker Evans 32:42So I mean, if they can bring other-

Anne Evans 32:44Mm-hmm

Walker Evans 32:44... other types of events like that-

Tim Fulton 32:45Yeah

Walker Evans 32:46... you know, could, could keep it going. But it, it's a bummer. And, and the news, the reason this was so high up on the list is just because there was different ongoing pieces, you know?

Tim Fulton 32:54Right.

Walker Evans 32:54A- as the announcement first broke and then as people tried to, to continue to make it happen, but just the, the, the reaction that it's seen out of the community, you know, everyone's really rallied around this team.

Tim Fulton 33:05From a coverage standpoint, and this has always sort of interested me, at what point do you, in an evolving story like that where it's somebody said this thing and then they canceled it and then you do, like, a moratorium, at what point do you stop updating one individual story and, like, move to the next one? Does that question make sense?

Walker Evans 33:29Yeah, no, I, I know what you mean.

Tim Fulton 33:30'Cause it's not like... And that's, uh, the virtue of things being online, right?

Walker Evans 33:35Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 33:35It's not like when you put out a newspaper in the morning, it's like, yeah, we'll issue corrections or updates-

Walker Evans 33:40Right

Tim Fulton 33:40... but we can't, you know, there is no, quote-unquote, "earlier version" of this story at that point.

Walker Evans 33:46Yeah.

Tim Fulton 33:46So at what point with, again, with an ongoing story like this, do you just sort of like, "Okay, this is now a new story"?

Walker Evans 33:56I think we play it by ear a little bit. I mean, if, if it's a correction or a, an update-

Tim Fulton 34:00Uh-huh

Walker Evans 34:00... then it's definitely a part of the existing story.

Tim Fulton 34:02Okay.

Walker Evans 34:03Then you, you add and you update. If it's some, some sort of new... If there's a new piece to it, a new, a new story-

Tim Fulton 34:10Okay

Walker Evans 34:10... then we would, we would change. So, like, specifically with regard to the foundation making the big announcement-

Tim Fulton 34:15Right

Walker Evans 34:16... the fact that they canceled it, we thought that was a whole different story on its own. Instead of just-

Tim Fulton 34:19The fact that they basically retracted their proposal.

Walker Evans 34:21Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 34:22Okay.

Walker Evans 34:22They decided, yeah, to go that route, so.

Tim Fulton 34:25Gotcha. Cool. Number one story this year on columbusunderground.com, the changes on Park Street/the North Market area with the bar closures and the, and the development planned. Why do you think that was such a big story that people were so upset that the Park Street bars closed? Or...

Walker Evans 34:46That was a really big one on its own, surprisingly.

Tim Fulton 34:49Okay.

Walker Evans 34:49Like, everyone and their brother was sharing that story. I-

Tim Fulton 34:51'Cause the North Market was originally announced in 2016.

Walker Evans 34:55I believe so, yeah.

Tim Fulton 34:55I remember us talk-

Walker Evans 34:56Yep

Tim Fulton 34:56... us talking about it in last year's-

Walker Evans 34:58Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 34:58... wrap-up.

Walker Evans 34:59Yeah. There have been continual updates on that project throughout the year.

Tim Fulton 35:03Okay.

Walker Evans 35:03This year.

Anne Evans 35:04I think the Park Street bars is just something that everyone had an opinion about. Whether they went 10 years ago or yesterday-

Tim Fulton 35:12Right.

Anne Evans 35:12... they just all, something-

Tim Fulton 35:14They wanted to, like, I'm sure-

Anne Evans 35:16... chime in

Tim Fulton 35:16... some commenters were, you know, saying good riddance and some were-

Walker Evans 35:21Yep

Tim Fulton 35:21... bemoaning its loss.

Walker Evans 35:22Yeah.

Tim Fulton 35:23Did you have more comments on that story, those stories?

Walker Evans 35:26Um, I, I don't think we really measured specifically on that. And the-

Tim Fulton 35:29Okay

Walker Evans 35:29... this list was, you know, kind of by eyeballs and readers specifically.

Tim Fulton 35:33Okay.

Walker Evans 35:33But, um, yeah, I mean, like Anne said, they've been around for so long that even if you're, you know, in your 30s now, you might have-

Tim Fulton 35:39Right

Walker Evans 35:39... been there in your 20s and had a great time, and so even if you hadn't been there in a long time-

Tim Fulton 35:42Or had a terrible time.

Walker Evans 35:43Yeah. Right.

Tim Fulton 35:44Depending.

Walker Evans 35:44Yeah.

Tim Fulton 35:44Right.

Walker Evans 35:46But it, it certainly represents a shift. And even if you saw them as, as some sort of a nuisance because of, you know, people getting drunk and-

Tim Fulton 35:54Drunk college kids, right

Walker Evans 35:55... right, it's still small businesses closing.

Tim Fulton 35:58True.

Walker Evans 35:59You know? So it, it represents a change in the structure of the neighborhood, you know? And even though it's local developers proposing to build the new hotel that's gonna go in there, and I'm sure there will be some sort of bar or restaurant component to that hotel-

Tim Fulton 36:09Right

Walker Evans 36:10... you know, people like to cling to what they know and is familiar and comforting-

Tim Fulton 36:14Right

Walker Evans 36:14... even if, even if it's something they don't go in. We, we saw a lot of the same sort of thing, and I, I think this aligns a lot with, like, the closure of Bernie's-

Tim Fulton 36:22Okay

Walker Evans 36:22... and the development of the Wellington building that's going in there.

Tim Fulton 36:24Yeah.

Walker Evans 36:25So many people upset that Bernie's was closing and being replaced, but if you individually ask people, "When was the last time you were in Bernie's?"

Tim Fulton 36:31Right.

Walker Evans 36:32I'm sure most of them will say, "Oh, five years ago, 10 years ago."

Tim Fulton 36:34Well, and let's be clear, though, Bernie's didn't close because it was- Its business was going down.

Walker Evans 36:39Right.

Tim Fulton 36:39Bernie's closed because they just developed that piece of land.

Walker Evans 36:42Well, the same with this too.

Tim Fulton 36:43Okay.

Walker Evans 36:44These, these three Park Street bars are being demolished-

Tim Fulton 36:47Right

Walker Evans 36:47... for a new development.

Tim Fulton 36:48Right.

Walker Evans 36:49So. And then-

Tim Fulton 36:51Rest in peace, Bernie's.

Walker Evans 36:53So directly across the street with the North Market development, it's, it's kind of the, the same piece of ongoing story, how rapidly that area's changing. And some people question, you know, how it's moving for something that's for locals to something that's for con-

Tim Fulton 37:07Travelers

Walker Evans 37:08... c- convention goers and-

Tim Fulton 37:09Right

Walker Evans 37:09... visitors, and how do you maintain that balance and keep it for everyone?

Tim Fulton 37:12Well, and my, you know, I have bemoaned the number of, you know, apartment rental units and asked multiple times, like, when do we sort of hit that saturation point with that market? But in terms of hotel rooms, we're not there yet.

Walker Evans 37:27Yeah.

Tim Fulton 37:27Like, we lose conventions because we don't have enough beds.

Walker Evans 37:31Yeah. I don't think we're there yet on either, either one. There's still some capacity for new apartments.

Tim Fulton 37:36Really?

Walker Evans 37:36Yeah.

Tim Fulton 37:37Okay.

Walker Evans 37:38Drive by a big suburban apartment development that's u- under construction right now. Where were we? Just-

Tim Fulton 37:45Hilliard.

Walker Evans 37:45Hilliard.

Tim Fulton 37:45Okay.

Walker Evans 37:46The other day, right off of what, 70 and Rum Hilliard Road.

Tim Fulton 37:49Mm-hmm. Okay.

Walker Evans 37:50Hundreds of new-

Tim Fulton 37:51Huge one

Walker Evans 37:51... apartment units-

Tim Fulton 37:52Yeah

Walker Evans 37:52... going up. And so people will complain when a new 100-unit building gets built in the Short North, saying it's too much.

Tim Fulton 37:58Right.

Walker Evans 37:58But you look at something like that where it's, like, 500 new units popping up out in the suburbs.

Tim Fulton 38:03Right.

Walker Evans 38:03And no one even knows it's happening, but-

Tim Fulton 38:04Mm-hmm

Walker Evans 38:05... the, the capacity for that is there.

Tim Fulton 38:06I guess my, my thought is the price point too, right? Like, these-

Walker Evans 38:09Yeah

Tim Fulton 38:10... are apartments that are going for, like, double what people pay for a mortgage in a reas- you know, in a reasonable-

Walker Evans 38:15Yeah

Tim Fulton 38:16... neighborhood.

Walker Evans 38:16Right.

Tim Fulton 38:17And a reasonable sized house.

Walker Evans 38:18Yeah.

Tim Fulton 38:19Talk to me about predictions for, for next year, and what, what are the big things that you guys are looking forward to?

Walker Evans 38:26Well, there are a couple of things that have been announced that'll be coming next year.

Tim Fulton 38:29Okay.

Walker Evans 38:30Um, I mean, we mentioned a few of them earlier, like food hall in the Short North. There's some of those types of announcements.

Tim Fulton 38:34Right.

Walker Evans 38:34We have another distillery that's coming in Grandview, High Bank Distillery.

Tim Fulton 38:38Okay.

Walker Evans 38:38Kind of close to Grandview Yard on, uh, Goodale.

Tim Fulton 38:41Locally owned?

Walker Evans 38:42Yep.

Tim Fulton 38:43Great.

Walker Evans 38:43Yep. So there, there are some, you know, individual sort of pieces like that. It'll probably be a, a politically charged year next year with the Ohio gubernatorial race kind of getting into full swing.

Tim Fulton 38:55Right.

Walker Evans 38:56I don't know if you had any-

Tim Fulton 38:56And Brown's up next year too, right?

Walker Evans 38:59Maybe.

Tim Fulton 39:00She, she-

Walker Evans 39:00Yeah, I think so.

Tim Fulton 39:01Yeah.

Walker Evans 39:02Yeah.

Tim Fulton 39:02And council's gonna get interesting again because Jai Ze page has announced that she's running for judge.

Walker Evans 39:07Yep.

Tim Fulton 39:07Mm-hmm.

Walker Evans 39:08So the, the Klein seat will be filled.

Tim Fulton 39:11Right.

Walker Evans 39:11And, and then her seat will be, need to be filled.

Tim Fulton 39:14Right.

Walker Evans 39:14I, I'm not sure when she would leave. Would that be, like, next fall?

Tim Fulton 39:16She would leave next fall, yeah.

Walker Evans 39:18Yeah. So-

Tim Fulton 39:18So they... And it would be the same thing that they did this year, that she would maintain the seat.

Walker Evans 39:23Right.

Tim Fulton 39:23They wouldn't put up somebody new 'cause she just... No, she didn't just-

Walker Evans 39:26It's been, like, two years.

Tim Fulton 39:27It's been... When does she have to run again for council?

Walker Evans 39:30It's every four.

Tim Fulton 39:31Okay.

Walker Evans 39:32So yeah. So someone would be appointed to fill the seat.

Tim Fulton 39:34Right.

Walker Evans 39:35Yeah.

Tim Fulton 39:36Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's gonna be interesting. Even years are always-

Walker Evans 39:39Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 39:40... interesting.

Walker Evans 39:41It, it'll be interesting on the development side of things too because, like you said, eventually we'll hit the saturation point on the luxury side of the apartment buildings.

Tim Fulton 39:47Right.

Walker Evans 39:47So does that mean we'll continue to see new development announced at the same rate at a more moderate price point?

Tim Fulton 39:53Well, and the moderate price point isn't happening in Short North, Italian Village.

Walker Evans 39:59Or any city in the United States.

Tim Fulton 40:01Really?

Walker Evans 40:01This is the same story in every city right now.

Tim Fulton 40:03Okay.

Walker Evans 40:03Yeah.

Tim Fulton 40:03Mm-hmm.

Walker Evans 40:04I was at, in Phoenix for a conference two months ago in October.

Tim Fulton 40:08Mm-hmm.

Walker Evans 40:08And we did a tour, it was the arts district tour, and I'm like, "Oh, I'm, I'm interested in this. I'm gonna-"

Tim Fulton 40:13Right

Walker Evans 40:13"... go on this-"

Tim Fulton 40:13We have one of those

Walker Evans 40:14... arts district tour. Yeah. We looked at, like, two galleries, and then we looked at, like, 12 apartment and condo developments. So it's the same-

Tim Fulton 40:21And the price point is also-

Walker Evans 40:23Oh, of course

Tim Fulton 40:23... higher for the market.

Walker Evans 40:24Yeah. Yeah. So-

Tim Fulton 40:26I mean, it's cool to live in a nice place. Mm-hmm. But yeah, we're gonna hit... My prediction is we hit, probably not next year, but we hit a saturation point in luxury apartments. We hit a saturation point in tacos. We hit a saturation-

Walker Evans 40:41Never. Never.

Tim Fulton 40:44I hate cilantro. We hit- So do I. We- It tastes like soap. You're one of us. Yep. You know, we hit a saturation point in, I don't think we're gonna get there in terms of, like, craft beer because the... This is think, something that I think is good, is the larger institutions like Nationwide Arena have been super supportive of the local breweries that are-

Walker Evans 41:07Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 41:07... able to, you know, put out the volume of beer. You know, Seventh Son isn't quite there yet in terms of production, but Land Grant and Four String are killing it.

Walker Evans 41:18Yeah.

Tim Fulton 41:18Which is great. Yeah.

Walker Evans 41:21I think we'll keep seeing some more suburban brewers-

Tim Fulton 41:24Okay

Walker Evans 41:25... cont- continue to grow.

Tim Fulton 41:26But is it gonna be any good?

Walker Evans 41:28Yeah.

Tim Fulton 41:29Okay.

Walker Evans 41:30I don't, I don't think it-

Tim Fulton 41:31I don't-

Walker Evans 41:31The, the closer you are to Broad and High, the better your beer tastes. Is that what you're saying?

Tim Fulton 41:35No. I j- I guess I'm thinking about there's a distiller in town that I'm just like, "That is not good." And I'm not gonna say, you know, who they are, but it's just really not good.

Walker Evans 41:46Mm.

Tim Fulton 41:46And I think that there's... We interviewed the head brewer from Wolf's Ridge, which Wolf's Ridge, I wish they were able to do more capacity, but their beer is, they create really drinkable craft beer.

Walker Evans 42:00They are expanding a bit.

Tim Fulton 42:02Oh yeah?

Walker Evans 42:03Yeah.

Tim Fulton 42:04With what?

Walker Evans 42:05They're working on kinda the other side of their building.

Tim Fulton 42:07Just a larger production facility?

Walker Evans 42:08Yeah. A lot more space, yeah.

Tim Fulton 42:09Good. Well, there you go.

Walker Evans 42:10And I, I don't know what of that is gonna be production and what's gonna be maybe restaurant or event space, but-

Tim Fulton 42:15Okay

Walker Evans 42:15... yeah, they've continued to grow.

Tim Fulton 42:17Well, and when we were talking earlier this year, the head brewer was talking a lot about how folks sorta wanna get into this game, um, but don't really know anything about it, and so they make this, you know, shitty hoppy beer.

Walker Evans 42:30Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 42:31And I just wanna make sure we're still making good and interesting stuff, and that people, uh, at, that we're making things similar To the way that Wolf's Ridge does in that we're making interesting beer.

Walker Evans 42:45Yeah.

Tim Fulton 42:45You know? So...

Walker Evans 42:46We're not really beer drinkers, so it's kind of all-

Tim Fulton 42:48So there you go

Walker Evans 42:49... over our heads.

Tim Fulton 42:50Well, and frankly I'm a PBR drinker. And so there you go.

Walker Evans 42:54But, but there are, there are some spaces like, uh, Combustion in Pickerington. We did an event down there.

Tim Fulton 42:58Okay.

Walker Evans 42:58Really cool facility. From what I've heard, good beer.

Tim Fulton 43:01Okay.

Walker Evans 43:02I didn't, I didn't drink it myself, but-

Anne Evans 43:03It is a cool facility. They took over an old creamery.

Tim Fulton 43:06Oh, wow.

Anne Evans 43:07So it's a pretty neat reuse, and they're doing a good job with it.

Tim Fulton 43:11Good.

Walker Evans 43:11Yeah. So I can see more of those kinds of things popping up in kind of those, you know, Circleville or Granville-

Tim Fulton 43:18Right

Walker Evans 43:18... Delaware. I think there's-

Anne Evans 43:19Mm-hmm

Walker Evans 43:19... there's room in those communities.

Tim Fulton 43:21Cool.

Anne Evans 43:21Just wanted to mention some other things we thought-

Tim Fulton 43:23Yeah, please

Anne Evans 43:23... were cool through 2017. The convention center got a pretty neat piece of public art.

Tim Fulton 43:30Yeah.

Anne Evans 43:30Matthew Moore's As We Are.

Tim Fulton 43:32The head.

Anne Evans 43:32That we... Yeah.

Tim Fulton 43:33Yeah.

Anne Evans 43:33New selfie and profile photos for a little while.

Tim Fulton 43:37It's awesome.

Anne Evans 43:37There was a lot of public art installed throughout Pearl Alley.

Tim Fulton 43:41Mm-hmm.

Anne Evans 43:42So even though that Pearl Market's gonna be moving to the state house next year-

Tim Fulton 43:47Okay

Anne Evans 43:47... for construction reasons, you can still check out cool artwork throughout Pearl Alley. And we got dinosaurs. It's pretty cool.

Tim Fulton 43:56At COSI.

Anne Evans 43:57Yeah. Downtown got a new car wash. They had one that was closed over on Main Street, and it was kinda the only one in the area.

Tim Fulton 44:07Yeah.

Anne Evans 44:07And now there's one on Long Street. So that's pretty neat.

Walker Evans 44:10It's back.

Anne Evans 44:11Yeah.

Tim Fulton 44:11Awesome.

Anne Evans 44:12Car washes are back. Grandview Heights opened their pool after a really nice remodel.

Tim Fulton 44:18Uh-huh.

Anne Evans 44:18So that was pretty neat for the summer. And Grandview Mercantile, they moved back over into Grandview area.

Tim Fulton 44:28Uh-huh.

Walker Evans 44:28Not quite Grandview.

Anne Evans 44:30But that was a pretty big, um, I think felt as a kind of a big loss in the Short North, but it was nice that they actually did move, 'cause I think it was a little bit up in the air whether they-

Tim Fulton 44:41Right

Anne Evans 44:41... were closing for good-

Walker Evans 44:42Mm-hmm

Anne Evans 44:42... or what they were gonna do. So it's nice to see them come back. And we saw the Lazarus Santa came back.

Tim Fulton 44:49Yes.

Anne Evans 44:50That was pretty cool. Like two-hour line. But it was nice.

Tim Fulton 44:55It was worth it.

Walker Evans 44:56Yeah.

Anne Evans 44:56It was worth it. And Parsons Avenue had a lot of investment with the East Public announcement-

Tim Fulton 45:03Mm-hmm

Anne Evans 45:03... and Two Dollar Radio. And then even farther on the south side, the Fortner Upholstery-

Tim Fulton 45:09Yeah

Anne Evans 45:09... moved down there and overtook an old building that needed some love.

Tim Fulton 45:14Well, that's good that we're getting development in those, those old buildings.

Walker Evans 45:18Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 45:19Cool. Well, guys, thank you so much for coming in, and, uh, cheers to a good 2018.

Anne Evans 45:24Thanks for having us, Tim.

Walker Evans 45:26See you in 2018.

Tim Fulton 45:37Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite reporter. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great new year.