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Performing Arts at the Wexner Center for the Arts

Oct 6, 2017 · 38 min

How do cultural art centers decide what’s worthy of presentation? I sat down with Lane Czaplinski, the Wexner Center for the Arts’ new director of performing arts to talk about his journey from literature student to art curator, his impressions of Columbus, and some of the exciting shows coming up in the Wexner Center’s fall performing arts season.

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This Confluence Cast episode is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art,  featuring stories about our city’s incredible artists — stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events and an artist directory visit ColumbusMakesArt.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, I sat down with Lane Kaplinsky, the Wexner Center for the Arts' new director of performing arts. I spoke with Lane about his journey from literature student to arts curator, his impressions of Columbus, and some of the exciting shows coming up in the Wexner Center's fall performing arts season. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Lane Kaplinsky, the incoming director of performing arts here at the Wexner Center for the Arts. Lane, how are you? I'm great. It's great to be here. Yeah, no, thank you so much. First of all, welcome to Columbus. Welcome to the Wexner Center. What's your background? What brings you to us? I somehow, as a washed up English major from the University of Kansas, ended up in the world of performance a few years after graduating. I, um, through a unlikely set of circumstances, met the woman who was the presenter at the University of Kansas who presented the shows Laurie Anderson, Miami City Ballet, all the things that I saw when I was in school. And when I met her-

Mm-hmm ... I realized that all the shows I had seen when I was on campus hadn't just magically materialized, that there was actually an industry behind that. There was a process behind it, right? Yes. So I really entered the arts administration field, as I call it, as an enthusiast. I w- had a, was offered a front of house position. It was my first job, and quickly moved into the box office as an assistant box office manager, and then was promoted to box office manager. And one of the breakthroughs for me was the fact that I, um... Well, there were two actually. One was that as a literature major, I could read and write, and so I was started proofreading grants. And-

Okay ... once you start- That is always the person who moves up a little bit quicker. Yeah. So once you start proofreading grants, you do what? You start writing the grants.

You start writing them, right. Which starts getting you dangerously into program design. 'Cause you gotta figure out what people will pay for. Exactly.

Right. And so that really, that led to me becoming an education director, and then eventually from there, I was hired to go to the Brooklyn Academy of Music. But, you know, the other thing that happened in Kansas, because the woman Jackie Davis, who ran the program, was a really, really great at her job, was she brought in a really high caliber program. So, you know, I was in a situation where I'm sitting as a young 20-something s- you know, sitting next to Philip Glass asking him about how he felt about being labeled a minimalist. Wow. That was, that was the question I was able to drum up and ask Phil at the time. Or, or, you know, sitting there talking to Merce about John's macrobiotic diet, or-

This is Merce Cunningham. Yeah. Okay. Or, you know, sitting there with Ohad Naharin in a master class and watching him talk about baby hands and Gaga technique, or walking outside with, with Bill T. Jones to confront the minister Fred Phelps and his, uh, bigoted protesting. You know, so-

This was all in Kansas? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And it, it had a lot of that sort of Peter Sellers being there feel to it.

Right. And definitely on the job training. But, you know, I would say that on the job training and then the ability to begin thinking and articulating in print programs or ideas or community engagement thoughts, that really led to, I think, my continuation and, and ultimately into the job that I have, which everyone always asks, "What qualifies you to be an artistic director?" And- Okay ... I'm, I don't think there's anything that qualifies me to be an artistic director. But I do think that that sort of training, that writing grants while I was looking at shows and trying to figure them out-

Right ... kinda got me into a mode of, uh, even if naively, considering what I thought about something and then being maybe just naive enough to put it in print or to articulate it outward. Right. Which-

Well, and that, here's the time during this episode where I give my full disclosure that I used to work at the Wexner Center for the Arts, and I was in the marketing department. And the thing that always surprised and impressed me was the ability of the programming staff to articulate the work and to write about whether it be dance or whether it be a film or visual art, which in my head is a lot more difficult depending on how much material you have to work on. It's quite a talent. So there's your kudos right there. From there, from BAM, you went over to the West Coast- Yeah ... over to Seattle on the boards, right? Yeah. I was in New York from, uh, '99 to 2002. September 11 happened, and kind of just after that, the position at, on the boards became available, and they did a national search. And because I worked, worked at a prestigious institution, kind of had a ... a good foothold in trying to go for that job. And-

And c- and I'm sorry, can I ask, September 11th was sort of an impetus for you to wanna get out of the city? Well, it was, it was more than that. I mean, I think my, my job at... A lot of cultural institutions at that time felt like there was gonna be a shrinking of, of their budgets. Right. And so my, my job was gonna be in jeopardy. And so it just so happened that on the boards job and the opportunity to actually k- keep evolving in my career opened up, and so I was able to kinda jump lily pads and-

Got it. And so what was your role there? At BAM? Yeah. My first gig-

No, I'm sorry. At On the Boards. Oh, at On the Boards my, my role was artistic director. Okay. I had never been an artistic director and wasn't sure what that was, but yeah, I was hired and, and moved there in 2002, and that's where I've been for the last 15 years.

Gotcha. And so now that you're here at the Wexner Center replacing Chuck Helm, the former director of performing arts, who was here for 26 years- Mm-hmm ... almost the entire history of the Wexner Center, can you sort of give the outsider's perspective outside of Columbus, Ohio, of the Wexner Center? 'Cause On the Boards worked with the Wexner Center. Mm-hmm.

Can you talk about sort of... I think that frankly in Columbus the Wexner Center is slightly underappreciated in sort of the caliber of work that it brings here. Can you just talk about how the Wexner Center is perceived outside of Columbus? Yeah. I mean, it's a legendary institution. I remember when I was working at the Lied Center at the University of Kansas and seeing one of the, the little books, little brochure booklets that the Wexner Center put out and- Oh, the calendar? Yeah.

But it, but it was a... At the time they used to put out these thick little dense program books. Yes. Um, they... And the kind that you wanted to kinda sink into a couch and read. And every page sort of privileged, whether it was a particular world premiere or a music act or a new initiative or directions to the restroom- ... everything sort of had equal weight and gravitas in this, in this program. Mm-hmm.

And I think for a lot of people it, it had a certain kind of allure. Like, how was a contemporary mission and vision being pulled off in this particular place? And how was it happening at a university? Right. And how- 'Cause you need sort of a, you need to be sort of independent in order to be able to do stuff like that.

Yeah. And it was so explicitly contemporary, it was so explicitly multidisciplinary- Mm-hmm ... the fact it had visual arts, film, video, and performing arts all apparently on equal footing. Mm-hmm.

So I think that there were a couple other things I think simultaneously that, that occurred. One is that the, the center developed a reputation for investing heavily in the development of new projects. Mm-hmm. And that, that kind of, you know, this notion of presenting. I remember reading, um, a review by Anna Kisselgoff in The New York Times years ago, and she said something along the lines of producers or presenters as they like to call themselves. Mm-hmm.

You know, it's that industry term that no one understands. Right. The notion of presenting. But there are a lot of organizations that invite artists with existing projects to come into a community and show those projects. Right.

The Wex- the Wexner Center is one of them. But, you know, we have all this resource, not just facilities, but we have, you know, pretty ample budgets. And the Wexner very early on figured out that it was important to not just present, but to invest in the development of new projects- Mm-hmm ... and to kinda do their part. And I think over the years helped train a field arguably about the value of that. Mm-hmm.

So you started to see grant programs as well as other institutions emulate that behavior more widely and use facilities that are usually reserved for presentation used all of a sudden for production, and I think that that's really been a fairly new proposition over the last 15 years or so. Mm-hmm. You know, simultaneously Chuck did an amazing job of presenting music. Yes.

And if you think about what that is culturally, you know, you're presenting what I like to call weird art- Mm-hmm ... m- dance and theater. Right.

You know, stuff that's hard to describe. It's, it's abstract. It's... But then on, on the side of that you're presenting, you know, an early show by Cat Power- Mm-hmm ... or Broadcast- Mm-hmm

... or... And suddenly, you know, your street cred- Right. You're not just the artsy fartsy venue, but you're doing stuff that has sort of popular cultural cachet. Right.

And I think that that also added to the allure of, of the joint. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, and it's a testament to the, to the good work that Chuck did over the 26 years that he was here. For those that are familiar with the programming at the Wexner Center, what background do you bring? What sort of changes do you think that people will see? Because while you do sort of own this season, it's pretty much Chuck that booked it, right? No, he programmed. Yeah. Okay.

He, he totally programmed the upcoming season. Okay. That's a real luxury for any producer, curator, programmer to have. Yeah, you get some time to sort of-

Yes ... get your feet wet, right? Yeah. And it's not even, it's not even a lot of time. I mean, people... That's one of the questions people in my field get all the time, like, "Well, how far out do you program?" Right.

And it's usually, you know, a year to two years in advance. One of the neat things about this institution is that there's infrastructure built in to both do long-term planning- Mm-hmm ... where you could get really far out on the development of a new project or the realization of just a complicated project- Right

... as well as be responsive to projects kind of in the short term. Right. An opportunity- Like the, the Next at Wex series where, like, you're gonna be able to bring in an indie rock band, and you've only got a turnaround of two months. And if you can make it work with the schedule of the facilities, absolutely.

Yeah. That's exactly... And that's, that's one of the reasons Chuck was able to, to pull off the, the musical program that he did. Mm-hmm. You know, I- I'm very cautious about getting lulled into the conversation about change. Okay.

And, and here's, here's why. It's not to imply that things will be a carbon copy, and that's even... You know, I don't even know if you wanted to copy Chuck that you could. Right. You know, I like to think that he brings his own skills and his own interests and his own taste to the table, and I don't think you can just emulate those easily. Mm-hmm.

But I also think that some of the biggest ideas sometimes are the ones that are right in front of you. It's the lowest hanging fruit. It's actually doing what's been done before and dusting it off and presenting it differently. Okay. I'll give you a, a, an example of that. You know, the Wexner Center's worked all over the community- Mm-hmm

... in different venues. Mm-hmm. That's... Going off-site is not a new proposition for this organization. Right. Sometimes out of necessity.

Yeah. And yet, going off-site and how you do it- Mm-hmm ... what the experience is around it, what venues you go into, who you partner with when you go off-site-

Mm-hmm ... all those things could potentially be done differently. Yeah. Or they could just be done anew or afresh or, or be done right now, and that will simply look, it'll look different.

Give me an example of what that would look like. I don't know. I was, I, uh, was hanging out with Alex Mandar at the Idea Foundry the other day. Yeah. And, uh, you know, there's a project that I'm looking at from Oslo by a group called Verdens Teatret-

Uh-huh ... that makes these really amazing... It's hard work to describe, but it's kinda sound and light shows that unfurl from these crude sculptures- Okay ... that move and, and sound seems to emanate from them, and there's intense video. Uh, it has a, a real kind of industrial quality about it.

But it's an environmental experience as well. Yeah. And it, and, and it happens in real time even though there's, there's not any... You know, there aren't performers per se. There are people who go out and manipulate objects and occasionally play an instrument. Mm-hmm.

So it does happen kind of in the performance world, but it's just, it's as much an install as it is- Right ... a performance piece. And, you know, I was talking to him about after touring the facility and having- Yeah

... a couple Watershed Bourbons on, uh, next door at Land Grant, how amazing it would be to figure out a way to do that project somewhere in that neighborhood. Yeah, absolutely. Just after being around, you know, people who were dealing with plastics and metal smithing and- Mm-hmm

... all the things that, you know, woodworking and all the things that they're doing down there. So, you know, I, I also think that we're living in an age where curatorship or programming, and this is largely of, I think happens more in the performing arts than it happens in the visual arts, where there's a more of a precedent for lots of different kinds of curators or curatorial visions being realized within one institutional structure. Mm-hmm. In the performing arts, what largely happens is for the sake of efficiency, there's usually a person who ends up determining everything that happens. Right.

And it's not so much, I think, intended to be a power play. It's more like that's the person who's willing to do it and is willing to write all the grants and pick up the artists from the airport and be there. Well, and has an understanding of the calendar. Yeah. Right.

And a- and, and fundraising and board development and strategic planning and all the stuff that goes into it. Mm-hmm. But as a result, you know, if that goes on forever and that person is, is being the only one dictating programs, then, you know, it could have the, the effect of being that kid who always chooses all the toys that, that we play with- Right

... day in and day out. Right. And, you know, and, and so and I'm scrutinizing my own work over my career that way. I'm thinking about, well, what is it- Why wasn't I more like Chuck when I was at, on the boards or...?

Well, actually I, I think it's on all of us, Chuck, myself, and others, I think to figure out as we go forward how to solicit other kinds of experts- Uh-huh ... people from other backgrounds, to actually take the lead, so in fact we create the space, we create the infrastructure, we create the support, but we really use it to invest in others to provide their perspective or to provide their, their curatorial viewpoints. It's not programming by a committee. It's just a way of bringing more people to the table- Right

... and potentially different communities to the table than may feel are currently invited into an institution like this. And I think that that runs concurrent to, you know, President Drake when he talks about kind of town and gown initiatives and trying to provide better access. Mm-hmm. It's not just, uh, something that would happen at this center, but I think everyone increasingly is thinking that way. How has your interaction been with the Columbus arts community since you've been here? I know you, you know, you said you spoke with Alex, but what about the other cultural institutions?

It's still really early. Right. You know, I was able to... I spent two hours with, uh, Javon Collins at the King Arts Complex. Mm-hmm.

I've had, uh, drinks with Doug Kridler- ... who, you know, his Columbus Foundation ran CAPA and restored the theaters. Right. This is that layperson, the outsider's perspective on what the, the movers and shakers of Columbus, uh- Right

... I, uh, just reached out to Mark Lomax to talk about jazz. You know, it, it all takes time. Uh, I've talked to some different choreographers. You know, I'm friends with Bebe Miller- Mm-hmm ... who's a, an emerita professor. I think emerita was the title that she was given. Yes.

But she's a friend and somebody that I'll continue to work with, uh, and she's been a fixture in this community and on this campus, and I consider her to be a real leader in the field. And in fact, she's one of the people that I'm thinking about as a, as an example of how I can pass the ball to Bebe and, and help her, you know, kinda lead the way with a particular aspect of the programming. Mm-hmm. So you just continue to... You don't ever know a community. Right.

You have to, like, be in it, and you have to keep talking to people and- But so far the, the, the feedback and the, your perception of it has been positive? Oh, it's been amazing. I mean, I tell, I tell everyone that it feels like I'm in the right place at the right time. Yeah.

And everyone says, you know, Columbus has been changing a lot over the last 15 years. Mm-hmm. But, like, particularly in the last three to four years, it just feels like a very different city. Yeah.

And so, you know, I moved here with my partner Lauren, and we're living downtown, and it was a real conscious effort to... I just felt like downtown was changing a lot. Mm-hmm. And so from the outside coming in, it just felt like kind of an interesting place, especially if we're always gonna be on campus. Because I work here, it felt like an opportunity to be off campus- Yeah

... and deal with another part of town. Good. Let's talk about the performing arts season. You can get information on everything that we've discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com, also Wexner Center's website, WexArts.org. You guys do have a whole bunch of jazz shows coming up, and again, you can look at the website for a lot of those. I wanna focus today on some of, while they're all performing arts, focus on the dance and a lot of the theater pieces. Talk about Parallel Connections, one of the, the featured performances that you have coming up mid-October. Well, y- I think it's a great... It's a unique opportunity because it is the dance department and Ballet Met along with the Wexner Center. Mm-hmm.

And, uh, it's really- And it goes back to those partnerships that you were talking about. Yeah. And, you know, Ballet Met is really taking the lead to create an evening of four different dance works that'll happen on the bill. One is, uh, James Kudelka. Another is William Forsythe, Merce Cunningham, and Ohad Naharin, so all really interesting choreographers. And then there are different- Those are works by them, I mean-

Yes ... to be clear. That they created. Right.

And that are being set on various configurations of the ballet students from the dance department, and then I believe the final number, the ballet and students from the dance department. That's fantastic. Yeah. And so how are those... I assume the Wexner Center has a hand in sort of the preparation of that.

Much more as a producer- Okay ... but it's really, at this point now going forward, you know, at this point we were kind of the, an organizing agent and bringing people together, but now at this point, as the work is being made, it really is Ballet Met and the dance department- Gotcha

... who are in rehearsals, who are, who are, you know, creating that material to be seen, you know, in the upcoming several weeks. Gotcha. Talk about Squirrel featuring Carter Logan, Jim Jarmusch, and then films by Man Ray that's coming up in early November. Well, that one I honestly... You know, films by Man Ray with music by Jim Jarmusch and Carter Logan- Yeah. Mm-hmm

... I mean, what's that going to be, you know? That's, uh, I think it's gonna be a rock concert to films by Man Ray. Mm-hmm. And I'm... And, but, you know, made obviously by, you know, a noted filmmaker or performed music by a noted filmmaker. So, you know, I... That's one of the... One of my friends who, uh, is a producer, Mark Russell, ran Performance Space 122 for years and is the artistic director of the Radar Festival in New York. Mm-hmm.

He often said, you know, "We present shows so we can see what they are." Right. You know, it's not always, it's not always- If I didn't bring this here, I wouldn't get to see it.

Exactly, and I feel like that this is one of those opportunities, so I, I'll get to experience what it is with everyone else. Right. Well, and it should be noted, when do tickets go on sale to the public? I have no idea. So that actually is one, it's gonna be in the film video theater, so a slightly smaller space, so do hop on tickets early for that. Do not wait until even late October to check it out. And then to sort of round out the season, not necessarily in the fall, coming up in mid-January is the world premiere of actually a Wexner Center Artist Residency Award. It's called A Thousand Thoughts, a live documentary by Sam Green and Kronos Quartet. Tell us about... And that's actually in Fulmer Hall, right?

Yes. Talk about that. Well, we were just talking about partnership and, you know, one of the places that partnership can occur obviously is within your institution as well, and I think that one of the neat things about the Wexner Center is how the different departments programmatically can play off of one another. And in this case, a performance project was initiated by the film video department. Mm-hmm.

Which is a really neat thing to, to consider. And so- Well, and listeners of the podcast will remember we just spoke with Jeff Smith, who noted Dave and Chris here at the Wexner Center in the film department, their crossover with comics, and so now evidence that crossing over in performance art for that department as well. Yeah, and then the synergy there, though that's such a squirrely word, but- ... is, is that Kronos already had a relationship to the center, you know, was here just years before- Right

... with Laurie Anderson. Right. And Kronos has, you know, w- organizations like the Wexner all, uh, owe a, a debt to Kronos because they are the avant ensemble that, you know, first played Purple Haze in a chamber music format and- Right

... created a, an opportunity for new composition to be heard in chamber music halls. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, there are a lot of artists who've been inspired by Kronos. And so to, to have a documentary created about them as they're on stage in the way that Sam does, which is to create, uh, a live narration, is really interesting. And I think another example of what we were just talking about even with the Suzanne Bocanegra project- Mm-hmm

... that a different way of entering narrative into a live performance setting that makes it a l- uh, feel like there's a little bit more danger, and as a result, a little bit more... It actually feels more real than something that maybe is a more traditional documentary approach. Right. And so, yeah, I, I think it's, it's another one of the highlights of our season, and it's another one that I think even if you maybe don't go in for experimental new music, I think that this project will have a lot of appeal because not only are the musicians on stage, but a story's being told about them, their history, and I think that'll be real exciting. If there was a theme for this season, would you- Would it be something around like new ways to look at narrative? Or how, how are you thinking about this season?

Well, I think that's a, an interesting idea because I don't even think it's just about the season, but certainly, you know, a lot of the work that's being made right now tries to recombine all the elements that create a reality that we experience on stage. And if you think about how conventional performance is made, you know, a text is written, it's memorized or choreography is made- Mm-hmm ... it's taught and rehearsed, and then it's taken into a theatrical context. Lights are put in the air, they're focused. Their sound cues are made and they're entered into the board. And, you know, costumer is often involved. Maybe a set's used. Videography could be brought into it. They're kind of these systems that are used to create what we experience largely in performance. Right.

And I think that a lot of the people who are making what we call contemporary performance are trying to play with those systems in such a way that kind of upend what that reality feels like on stage and what that expression feels like on stage. I mean, Bebe Miller, who you'll be interviewing as I understand it coming up, her piece does that same thing. Okay. It, it very much is trying to pull apart how a dance work is made and in almost in real time displays or shows you in a slowed down fashion how a work maybe comes together. Okay.

It's called "The Making Room," and in my mind what I saw in the, in the work in progress that she showed here a few weeks ago really displayed a unique approach that i-in my mind it even evoked, uh, Pina Bausch, uh, for me. Okay. It, it, it really kind of deconstructed how a dance is made and kind of put it back together in front of an audience's eyes. That's great.

Yeah. First of all, Lane, thank you for your time. We're gonna wrap up with a piece by Bill Frisell on the occasion that he's gonna be here performing on October 8th. Can you talk about Bill Frisell and the, the piece that he's bringing in October? Yeah. It's a collaboration with The Bad Plus, and it, it's poignant for me because it, it really is-- comes about because of my predecessor, Chuck Helm. Mm-hmm.

And, you know, The Bad Plus talks about being inspired at an early stage of their career watching the, the performances, the music performances at the Walker Arts Center where Chuck was doing the musical programming- Mm-hmm ... with artists like Bill Frisell. And so when he approached them about doing a project, they said they wanted to work with Bill. They wanted... And it, and basically was like, "Yeah, we wanna work with Bill in the way that we used to see him at the Walker Arts Center because those were so inspirational for us." And so just thinking about how Chuck's role in shaping, supporting an artist like Bill, who's- Mm-hmm

... obviously a leader, and then as well as next generation artists like The Bad Plus, and just thinking about his role with those projects and those artists, uh, yeah, it's interesting for me. Great. Well, let's wrap up then with some music by The Bad Plus. Lane, thank you again. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite programmer. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our post-production engineer was Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.

Transcript5,202 words

Tim Fulton Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, I sat down with Lane Kaplinsky, the Wexner Center for the Arts' new director of performing arts. I spoke with Lane about his journey from literature student to arts curator, his impressions of Columbus, and some of the exciting shows coming up in the Wexner Center's fall performing arts season. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Lane Kaplinsky, the incoming director of performing arts here at the Wexner Center for the Arts. Lane, how are you?

Lane Czaplinski I'm great. It's great to be here.

Tim Fulton Yeah, no, thank you so much. First of all, welcome to Columbus. Welcome to the Wexner Center. What's your background? What brings you to us?

Lane Czaplinski I somehow, as a washed up English major from the University of Kansas, ended up in the world of performance a few years after graduating. I, um, through a unlikely set of circumstances, met the woman who was the presenter at the University of Kansas who presented the shows Laurie Anderson, Miami City Ballet, all the things that I saw when I was in school. And when I met her-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... I realized that all the shows I had seen when I was on campus hadn't just magically materialized, that there was actually an industry behind that.

Tim Fulton There was a process behind it, right?

Lane Czaplinski Yes. So I really entered the arts administration field, as I call it, as an enthusiast. I w- had a, was offered a front of house position. It was my first job, and quickly moved into the box office as an assistant box office manager, and then was promoted to box office manager. And one of the breakthroughs for me was the fact that I, um... Well, there were two actually. One was that as a literature major, I could read and write, and so I was started proofreading grants. And-

Tim Fulton Okay

Lane Czaplinski ... once you start-

Tim Fulton That is always the person who moves up a little bit quicker.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah. So once you start proofreading grants, you do what? You start writing the grants.

Tim Fulton You start writing them, right.

Lane Czaplinski Which starts getting you dangerously into program design.

Tim Fulton 'Cause you gotta figure out what people will pay for.

Lane Czaplinski Exactly.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And so that really, that led to me becoming an education director, and then eventually from there, I was hired to go to the Brooklyn Academy of Music. But, you know, the other thing that happened in Kansas, because the woman Jackie Davis, who ran the program, was a really, really great at her job, was she brought in a really high caliber program. So, you know, I was in a situation where I'm sitting as a young 20-something s- you know, sitting next to Philip Glass asking him about how he felt about being labeled a minimalist.

Tim Fulton Wow.

Lane Czaplinski That was, that was the question I was able to drum up and ask Phil at the time. Or, or, you know, sitting there talking to Merce about John's macrobiotic diet, or-

Tim Fulton This is Merce Cunningham.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski Or, you know, sitting there with Ohad Naharin in a master class and watching him talk about baby hands and Gaga technique, or walking outside with, with Bill T. Jones to confront the minister Fred Phelps and his, uh, bigoted protesting. You know, so-

Tim Fulton This was all in Kansas?

Lane Czaplinski Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski And it, it had a lot of that sort of Peter Sellers being there feel to it.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And definitely on the job training. But, you know, I would say that on the job training and then the ability to begin thinking and articulating in print programs or ideas or community engagement thoughts, that really led to, I think, my continuation and, and ultimately into the job that I have, which everyone always asks, "What qualifies you to be an artistic director?" And-

Tim Fulton Okay

Lane Czaplinski ... I'm, I don't think there's anything that qualifies me to be an artistic director. But I do think that that sort of training, that writing grants while I was looking at shows and trying to figure them out-

Tim Fulton Right

Lane Czaplinski ... kinda got me into a mode of, uh, even if naively, considering what I thought about something and then being maybe just naive enough to put it in print or to articulate it outward.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski Which-

Tim Fulton Well, and that, here's the time during this episode where I give my full disclosure that I used to work at the Wexner Center for the Arts, and I was in the marketing department. And the thing that always surprised and impressed me was the ability of the programming staff to articulate the work and to write about whether it be dance or whether it be a film or visual art, which in my head is a lot more difficult depending on how much material you have to work on. It's quite a talent. So there's your kudos right there. From there, from BAM, you went over to the West Coast-

Lane Czaplinski Yeah

Tim Fulton ... over to Seattle on the boards, right?

Lane Czaplinski Yeah. I was in New York from, uh, '99 to 2002. September 11 happened, and kind of just after that, the position at, on the boards became available, and they did a national search. And because I worked, worked at a prestigious institution, kind of had a ... a good foothold in trying to go for that job. And-

Tim Fulton And c- and I'm sorry, can I ask, September 11th was sort of an impetus for you to wanna get out of the city?

Lane Czaplinski Well, it was, it was more than that. I mean, I think my, my job at... A lot of cultural institutions at that time felt like there was gonna be a shrinking of, of their budgets.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And so my, my job was gonna be in jeopardy. And so it just so happened that on the boards job and the opportunity to actually k- keep evolving in my career opened up, and so I was able to kinda jump lily pads and-

Tim Fulton Got it. And so what was your role there?

Lane Czaplinski At BAM?

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Lane Czaplinski My first gig-

Tim Fulton No, I'm sorry. At On the Boards.

Lane Czaplinski Oh, at On the Boards my, my role was artistic director.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski I had never been an artistic director and wasn't sure what that was, but yeah, I was hired and, and moved there in 2002, and that's where I've been for the last 15 years.

Tim Fulton Gotcha. And so now that you're here at the Wexner Center replacing Chuck Helm, the former director of performing arts, who was here for 26 years-

Lane Czaplinski Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton ... almost the entire history of the Wexner Center, can you sort of give the outsider's perspective outside of Columbus, Ohio, of the Wexner Center? 'Cause On the Boards worked with the Wexner Center.

Lane Czaplinski Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton Can you talk about sort of... I think that frankly in Columbus the Wexner Center is slightly underappreciated in sort of the caliber of work that it brings here. Can you just talk about how the Wexner Center is perceived outside of Columbus?

Lane Czaplinski Yeah. I mean, it's a legendary institution. I remember when I was working at the Lied Center at the University of Kansas and seeing one of the, the little books, little brochure booklets that the Wexner Center put out and-

Tim Fulton Oh, the calendar?

Lane Czaplinski Yeah.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Lane Czaplinski But it, but it was a... At the time they used to put out these thick little dense program books.

Tim Fulton Yes.

Lane Czaplinski Um, they... And the kind that you wanted to kinda sink into a couch and read. And every page sort of privileged, whether it was a particular world premiere or a music act or a new initiative or directions to the restroom- ... everything sort of had equal weight and gravitas in this, in this program.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski And I think for a lot of people it, it had a certain kind of allure. Like, how was a contemporary mission and vision being pulled off in this particular place? And how was it happening at a university?

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And how-

Tim Fulton 'Cause you need sort of a, you need to be sort of independent in order to be able to do stuff like that.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah. And it was so explicitly contemporary, it was so explicitly multidisciplinary-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... the fact it had visual arts, film, video, and performing arts all apparently on equal footing.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski So I think that there were a couple other things I think simultaneously that, that occurred. One is that the, the center developed a reputation for investing heavily in the development of new projects.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski And that, that kind of, you know, this notion of presenting. I remember reading, um, a review by Anna Kisselgoff in The New York Times years ago, and she said something along the lines of producers or presenters as they like to call themselves.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski You know, it's that industry term that no one understands.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski The notion of presenting. But there are a lot of organizations that invite artists with existing projects to come into a community and show those projects.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski The Wex- the Wexner Center is one of them. But, you know, we have all this resource, not just facilities, but we have, you know, pretty ample budgets. And the Wexner very early on figured out that it was important to not just present, but to invest in the development of new projects-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... and to kinda do their part. And I think over the years helped train a field arguably about the value of that.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski So you started to see grant programs as well as other institutions emulate that behavior more widely and use facilities that are usually reserved for presentation used all of a sudden for production, and I think that that's really been a fairly new proposition over the last 15 years or so.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski You know, simultaneously Chuck did an amazing job of presenting music.

Tim Fulton Yes.

Lane Czaplinski And if you think about what that is culturally, you know, you're presenting what I like to call weird art-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... m- dance and theater.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski You know, stuff that's hard to describe. It's, it's abstract. It's... But then on, on the side of that you're presenting, you know, an early show by Cat Power-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... or Broadcast-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... or... And suddenly, you know, your street cred-

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski You're not just the artsy fartsy venue, but you're doing stuff that has sort of popular cultural cachet.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And I think that that also added to the allure of, of the joint.

Tim Fulton Yeah. Absolutely. Well, and it's a testament to the, to the good work that Chuck did over the 26 years that he was here. For those that are familiar with the programming at the Wexner Center, what background do you bring? What sort of changes do you think that people will see? Because while you do sort of own this season, it's pretty much Chuck that booked it, right?

Lane Czaplinski No, he programmed. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski He, he totally programmed the upcoming season.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski That's a real luxury for any producer, curator, programmer to have.

Tim Fulton Yeah, you get some time to sort of-

Lane Czaplinski Yes

Tim Fulton ... get your feet wet, right?

Lane Czaplinski Yeah. And it's not even, it's not even a lot of time. I mean, people... That's one of the questions people in my field get all the time, like, "Well, how far out do you program?"

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And it's usually, you know, a year to two years in advance. One of the neat things about this institution is that there's infrastructure built in to both do long-term planning-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... where you could get really far out on the development of a new project or the realization of just a complicated project-

Tim Fulton Right

Lane Czaplinski ... as well as be responsive to projects kind of in the short term.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski An opportunity-

Tim Fulton Like the, the Next at Wex series where, like, you're gonna be able to bring in an indie rock band, and you've only got a turnaround of two months. And if you can make it work with the schedule of the facilities, absolutely.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah. That's exactly... And that's, that's one of the reasons Chuck was able to, to pull off the, the musical program that he did.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski You know, I- I'm very cautious about getting lulled into the conversation about change.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski And, and here's, here's why. It's not to imply that things will be a carbon copy, and that's even... You know, I don't even know if you wanted to copy Chuck that you could.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski You know, I like to think that he brings his own skills and his own interests and his own taste to the table, and I don't think you can just emulate those easily.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski But I also think that some of the biggest ideas sometimes are the ones that are right in front of you. It's the lowest hanging fruit. It's actually doing what's been done before and dusting it off and presenting it differently.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski I'll give you a, a, an example of that. You know, the Wexner Center's worked all over the community-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... in different venues.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski That's... Going off-site is not a new proposition for this organization.

Tim Fulton Right. Sometimes out of necessity.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Lane Czaplinski And yet, going off-site and how you do it-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... what the experience is around it, what venues you go into, who you partner with when you go off-site-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... all those things could potentially be done differently.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Lane Czaplinski Or they could just be done anew or afresh or, or be done right now, and that will simply look, it'll look different.

Tim Fulton Give me an example of what that would look like.

Lane Czaplinski I don't know. I was, I, uh, was hanging out with Alex Mandar at the Idea Foundry the other day.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Lane Czaplinski And, uh, you know, there's a project that I'm looking at from Oslo by a group called Verdens Teatret-

Tim Fulton Uh-huh

Lane Czaplinski ... that makes these really amazing... It's hard work to describe, but it's kinda sound and light shows that unfurl from these crude sculptures-

Tim Fulton Okay

Lane Czaplinski ... that move and, and sound seems to emanate from them, and there's intense video. Uh, it has a, a real kind of industrial quality about it.

Tim Fulton But it's an environmental experience as well.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Lane Czaplinski And it, and, and it happens in real time even though there's, there's not any... You know, there aren't performers per se. There are people who go out and manipulate objects and occasionally play an instrument.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski So it does happen kind of in the performance world, but it's just, it's as much an install as it is-

Tim Fulton Right

Lane Czaplinski ... a performance piece. And, you know, I was talking to him about after touring the facility and having-

Tim Fulton Yeah

Lane Czaplinski ... a couple Watershed Bourbons on, uh, next door at Land Grant, how amazing it would be to figure out a way to do that project somewhere in that neighborhood.

Tim Fulton Yeah, absolutely.

Lane Czaplinski Just after being around, you know, people who were dealing with plastics and metal smithing and-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... all the things that, you know, woodworking and all the things that they're doing down there. So, you know, I, I also think that we're living in an age where curatorship or programming, and this is largely of, I think happens more in the performing arts than it happens in the visual arts, where there's a more of a precedent for lots of different kinds of curators or curatorial visions being realized within one institutional structure.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski In the performing arts, what largely happens is for the sake of efficiency, there's usually a person who ends up determining everything that happens.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And it's not so much, I think, intended to be a power play. It's more like that's the person who's willing to do it and is willing to write all the grants and pick up the artists from the airport and be there.

Tim Fulton Well, and has an understanding of the calendar.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And a- and, and fundraising and board development and strategic planning and all the stuff that goes into it.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski But as a result, you know, if that goes on forever and that person is, is being the only one dictating programs, then, you know, it could have the, the effect of being that kid who always chooses all the toys that, that we play with-

Tim Fulton Right

Lane Czaplinski ... day in and day out.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And, you know, and, and so and I'm scrutinizing my own work over my career that way. I'm thinking about, well, what is it-

Tim Fulton Why wasn't I more like Chuck when I was at, on the boards or...?

Lane Czaplinski Well, actually I, I think it's on all of us, Chuck, myself, and others, I think to figure out as we go forward how to solicit other kinds of experts-

Tim Fulton Uh-huh

Lane Czaplinski ... people from other backgrounds, to actually take the lead, so in fact we create the space, we create the infrastructure, we create the support, but we really use it to invest in others to provide their perspective or to provide their, their curatorial viewpoints. It's not programming by a committee. It's just a way of bringing more people to the table-

Tim Fulton Right

Lane Czaplinski ... and potentially different communities to the table than may feel are currently invited into an institution like this. And I think that that runs concurrent to, you know, President Drake when he talks about kind of town and gown initiatives and trying to provide better access.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski It's not just, uh, something that would happen at this center, but I think everyone increasingly is thinking that way.

Tim Fulton How has your interaction been with the Columbus arts community since you've been here? I know you, you know, you said you spoke with Alex, but what about the other cultural institutions?

Lane Czaplinski It's still really early.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski You know, I was able to... I spent two hours with, uh, Javon Collins at the King Arts Complex.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski I've had, uh, drinks with Doug Kridler- ... who, you know, his Columbus Foundation ran CAPA and restored the theaters.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski This is that layperson, the outsider's perspective on what the, the movers and shakers of Columbus, uh-

Tim Fulton Right

Lane Czaplinski ... I, uh, just reached out to Mark Lomax to talk about jazz. You know, it, it all takes time. Uh, I've talked to some different choreographers. You know, I'm friends with Bebe Miller-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... who's a, an emerita professor. I think emerita was the title that she was given.

Tim Fulton Yes.

Lane Czaplinski But she's a friend and somebody that I'll continue to work with, uh, and she's been a fixture in this community and on this campus, and I consider her to be a real leader in the field. And in fact, she's one of the people that I'm thinking about as a, as an example of how I can pass the ball to Bebe and, and help her, you know, kinda lead the way with a particular aspect of the programming.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski So you just continue to... You don't ever know a community.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski You have to, like, be in it, and you have to keep talking to people and-

Tim Fulton But so far the, the, the feedback and the, your perception of it has been positive?

Lane Czaplinski Oh, it's been amazing. I mean, I tell, I tell everyone that it feels like I'm in the right place at the right time.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Lane Czaplinski And everyone says, you know, Columbus has been changing a lot over the last 15 years.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski But, like, particularly in the last three to four years, it just feels like a very different city.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Lane Czaplinski And so, you know, I moved here with my partner Lauren, and we're living downtown, and it was a real conscious effort to... I just felt like downtown was changing a lot.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski And so from the outside coming in, it just felt like kind of an interesting place, especially if we're always gonna be on campus. Because I work here, it felt like an opportunity to be off campus-

Tim Fulton Yeah

Lane Czaplinski ... and deal with another part of town.

Tim Fulton Good. Let's talk about the performing arts season. You can get information on everything that we've discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com, also Wexner Center's website, WexArts.org. You guys do have a whole bunch of jazz shows coming up, and again, you can look at the website for a lot of those. I wanna focus today on some of, while they're all performing arts, focus on the dance and a lot of the theater pieces. Talk about Parallel Connections, one of the, the featured performances that you have coming up mid-October.

Lane Czaplinski Well, y- I think it's a great... It's a unique opportunity because it is the dance department and Ballet Met along with the Wexner Center.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski And, uh, it's really-

Tim Fulton And it goes back to those partnerships that you were talking about.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah. And, you know, Ballet Met is really taking the lead to create an evening of four different dance works that'll happen on the bill. One is, uh, James Kudelka. Another is William Forsythe, Merce Cunningham, and Ohad Naharin, so all really interesting choreographers. And then there are different-

Tim Fulton Those are works by them, I mean-

Lane Czaplinski Yes

Tim Fulton ... to be clear.

Lane Czaplinski That they created.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And that are being set on various configurations of the ballet students from the dance department, and then I believe the final number, the ballet and students from the dance department.

Tim Fulton That's fantastic.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah.

Tim Fulton And so how are those... I assume the Wexner Center has a hand in sort of the preparation of that.

Lane Czaplinski Much more as a producer-

Tim Fulton Okay

Lane Czaplinski ... but it's really, at this point now going forward, you know, at this point we were kind of the, an organizing agent and bringing people together, but now at this point, as the work is being made, it really is Ballet Met and the dance department-

Tim Fulton Gotcha

Lane Czaplinski ... who are in rehearsals, who are, who are, you know, creating that material to be seen, you know, in the upcoming several weeks.

Tim Fulton Gotcha. Talk about Squirrel featuring Carter Logan, Jim Jarmusch, and then films by Man Ray that's coming up in early November.

Lane Czaplinski Well, that one I honestly... You know, films by Man Ray with music by Jim Jarmusch and Carter Logan-

Tim Fulton Yeah. Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... I mean, what's that going to be, you know? That's, uh, I think it's gonna be a rock concert to films by Man Ray.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski And I'm... And, but, you know, made obviously by, you know, a noted filmmaker or performed music by a noted filmmaker. So, you know, I... That's one of the... One of my friends who, uh, is a producer, Mark Russell, ran Performance Space 122 for years and is the artistic director of the Radar Festival in New York.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski He often said, you know, "We present shows so we can see what they are."

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski You know, it's not always, it's not always-

Tim Fulton If I didn't bring this here, I wouldn't get to see it.

Lane Czaplinski Exactly, and I feel like that this is one of those opportunities, so I, I'll get to experience what it is with everyone else.

Tim Fulton Right. Well, and it should be noted, when do tickets go on sale to the public?

Lane Czaplinski I have no idea.

Tim Fulton So that actually is one, it's gonna be in the film video theater, so a slightly smaller space, so do hop on tickets early for that. Do not wait until even late October to check it out. And then to sort of round out the season, not necessarily in the fall, coming up in mid-January is the world premiere of actually a Wexner Center Artist Residency Award. It's called A Thousand Thoughts, a live documentary by Sam Green and Kronos Quartet. Tell us about... And that's actually in Fulmer Hall, right?

Lane Czaplinski Yes.

Tim Fulton Talk about that.

Lane Czaplinski Well, we were just talking about partnership and, you know, one of the places that partnership can occur obviously is within your institution as well, and I think that one of the neat things about the Wexner Center is how the different departments programmatically can play off of one another. And in this case, a performance project was initiated by the film video department.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski Which is a really neat thing to, to consider. And so-

Tim Fulton Well, and listeners of the podcast will remember we just spoke with Jeff Smith, who noted Dave and Chris here at the Wexner Center in the film department, their crossover with comics, and so now evidence that crossing over in performance art for that department as well.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah, and then the synergy there, though that's such a squirrely word, but- ... is, is that Kronos already had a relationship to the center, you know, was here just years before-

Tim Fulton Right

Lane Czaplinski ... with Laurie Anderson.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And Kronos has, you know, w- organizations like the Wexner all, uh, owe a, a debt to Kronos because they are the avant ensemble that, you know, first played Purple Haze in a chamber music format and-

Tim Fulton Right

Lane Czaplinski ... created a, an opportunity for new composition to be heard in chamber music halls.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski And so, you know, there are a lot of artists who've been inspired by Kronos. And so to, to have a documentary created about them as they're on stage in the way that Sam does, which is to create, uh, a live narration, is really interesting. And I think another example of what we were just talking about even with the Suzanne Bocanegra project-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... that a different way of entering narrative into a live performance setting that makes it a l- uh, feel like there's a little bit more danger, and as a result, a little bit more... It actually feels more real than something that maybe is a more traditional documentary approach.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And so, yeah, I, I think it's, it's another one of the highlights of our season, and it's another one that I think even if you maybe don't go in for experimental new music, I think that this project will have a lot of appeal because not only are the musicians on stage, but a story's being told about them, their history, and I think that'll be real exciting.

Tim Fulton If there was a theme for this season, would you- Would it be something around like new ways to look at narrative? Or how, how are you thinking about this season?

Lane Czaplinski Well, I think that's a, an interesting idea because I don't even think it's just about the season, but certainly, you know, a lot of the work that's being made right now tries to recombine all the elements that create a reality that we experience on stage. And if you think about how conventional performance is made, you know, a text is written, it's memorized or choreography is made-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... it's taught and rehearsed, and then it's taken into a theatrical context. Lights are put in the air, they're focused. Their sound cues are made and they're entered into the board. And, you know, costumer is often involved. Maybe a set's used. Videography could be brought into it. They're kind of these systems that are used to create what we experience largely in performance.

Tim Fulton Right.

Lane Czaplinski And I think that a lot of the people who are making what we call contemporary performance are trying to play with those systems in such a way that kind of upend what that reality feels like on stage and what that expression feels like on stage. I mean, Bebe Miller, who you'll be interviewing as I understand it coming up, her piece does that same thing.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski It, it very much is trying to pull apart how a dance work is made and in almost in real time displays or shows you in a slowed down fashion how a work maybe comes together.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski It's called "The Making Room," and in my mind what I saw in the, in the work in progress that she showed here a few weeks ago really displayed a unique approach that i-in my mind it even evoked, uh, Pina Bausch, uh, for me.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Lane Czaplinski It, it, it really kind of deconstructed how a dance is made and kind of put it back together in front of an audience's eyes.

Tim Fulton That's great.

Lane Czaplinski Yeah.

Tim Fulton First of all, Lane, thank you for your time. We're gonna wrap up with a piece by Bill Frisell on the occasion that he's gonna be here performing on October 8th. Can you talk about Bill Frisell and the, the piece that he's bringing in October?

Lane Czaplinski Yeah. It's a collaboration with The Bad Plus, and it, it's poignant for me because it, it really is-- comes about because of my predecessor, Chuck Helm.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Lane Czaplinski And, you know, The Bad Plus talks about being inspired at an early stage of their career watching the, the performances, the music performances at the Walker Arts Center where Chuck was doing the musical programming-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... with artists like Bill Frisell. And so when he approached them about doing a project, they said they wanted to work with Bill. They wanted... And it, and basically was like, "Yeah, we wanna work with Bill in the way that we used to see him at the Walker Arts Center because those were so inspirational for us." And so just thinking about how Chuck's role in shaping, supporting an artist like Bill, who's-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Lane Czaplinski ... obviously a leader, and then as well as next generation artists like The Bad Plus, and just thinking about his role with those projects and those artists, uh, yeah, it's interesting for me.

Tim Fulton Great. Well, let's wrap up then with some music by The Bad Plus. Lane, thank you again.

Lane Czaplinski Thank you.

Tim Fulton Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite programmer. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our post-production engineer was Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.