Cartoon Crossroads Columbus

Tim Fulton 0:07Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, I sat down with Columbus-based cartoonist Jeff Smith on the occasion of Cartoon Crossroads Columbus, a week-long series of events throughout the city showcasing cartoonists and their work. It's a free citywide arts festival hosted every year by people and places with a passion for cartoon arts. They connect the global family of cartoon storytellers, comic makers, and animators with the people who love and are inspired by their art. Check out the events all next week, September 22nd through October 1st. A brief bit of housekeeping here. Jeff and I discuss a myriad of artists in our conversation. This was recorded a couple of weeks back. Some of these artists unfortunately may not have been able to make it to the festival. Please check online for the full schedule. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with cartoonist Jeff Smith on the occasion of the upcoming Cartoon Crossroads Columbus coming up September 28th through October 1st. Jeff, how are you, sir?

Jeff Smith 2:14I'm doing great. How you doing, Tim?

Tim Fulton 2:16Doing well, thank you. You are perhaps best known for the Bone series of graphic novels and comic books. You started those when you were five years old? I've seen debate- ... at five years old or nine years old is when sort of Bone started. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Jeff Smith 2:33Yeah, that-- well, th- not the comic books.

Tim Fulton 2:35Right, right.

Jeff Smith 2:35Those started when I was, like, 30. But the character, I made up the Bone characters when I was five, and the nine year old is when I actually-- I still have a few existing comics that I made of those characters that go back to, like, when I was, like, nine or 10.

Tim Fulton 2:49Gotcha. Gotcha. You are a Columbus native, grew up in Worthington, went to Ohio State. You were doing comics for The Lantern at the time, correct?

Jeff Smith 2:58Exactly, yeah.

Tim Fulton 2:58And so you-- why did you d-

Jeff Smith 3:00I am so native.

Tim Fulton 3:01You, you are very native. For those that don't know Jeff, Google him so that you can sort of get a sense of his impact in the cartoon community. Why did you decide to stay?

Jeff Smith 3:16Well, I actually went to California.

Tim Fulton 3:19Okay.

Jeff Smith 3:19I lived in the Bay Area for a few years. I owned an animation studio. We were mostly in Worthington, but we were in Clintonville for a while, and I had a couple of partners. And I wanted to start this comic book. So I sold my animation company.

Tim Fulton 3:31Okay.

Jeff Smith 3:32And right then my wife, who is my business partner now-

Tim Fulton 3:35Okay

Jeff Smith 3:36... she got a job w- in Silicon Valley. So we moved out to the Bay Area for two and a half years.

Tim Fulton 3:42You basically said, "I can do this comic book anywhere."

Jeff Smith 3:45Yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:46Okay.

Jeff Smith 3:46Yeah. And she got this job offer. So I went, and within about two years, the comic book really took off.

Tim Fulton 3:52Okay.

Jeff Smith 3:53And I was able to convince her to quit her job and be my partner full time.

Tim Fulton 3:58Okay.

Jeff Smith 3:58Because I w- it was actually becoming so successful that I couldn't keep up with the non-drawing part of it, like shipping the books and, you know, filling-- sending out invoices and-

Tim Fulton 4:08You're noting an important part here. You are completely self-published.

Jeff Smith 4:12Yes.

Tim Fulton 4:12And are still, correct?

Jeff Smith 4:13Yes.

Tim Fulton 4:14Okay.

Jeff Smith 4:14Well, not completely, yeah, but I still do s- my own book sometime.

Tim Fulton 4:17And so why, why make that choice?

Jeff Smith 4:20My original ambition was to do a comic strip, like in the newspaper, like Calvin and Hobbes.

Tim Fulton 4:24Okay.

Jeff Smith 4:25In fact, I was shopping Bone around to the newspaper syndicates at the same time that Bill was showing them Calvin and Hobbes.

Tim Fulton 4:32Okay.

Jeff Smith 4:33But I couldn't get anybody interested. Nobody wanted it. I mean, I got a lot of meetings. They-- people liked my artwork and my jokes, but they didn't like the ideas of Bone. I had these three cartoon characters that are very traditional American cartoon characters.

Tim Fulton 4:46Right.

Jeff Smith 4:47Big nose, three fingers, big feet. But they were, like, in, like, a Lord of the R- Lord of the Rings universe that had a, an ongoing story.

Tim Fulton 4:55Right.

Jeff Smith 4:55Well, in comic strips, they-- nobody was interested in that. They said, "The-- you can do the Bones. They're great. Just have them, you know, be like a Garfield comic and do a joke every day."

Tim Fulton 5:03Okay.

Jeff Smith 5:04"And have them hate Monday." Well, so when I found out that there were comic book stores where the underground comics are as well as Spider-Man and Batman-

Tim Fulton 5:14Right

Jeff Smith 5:14... I saw really brilliant work being done by the Hernandez brothers or by Peter Bagge or Dave Sim. There were these cartoonists that were-- they weren't drawing Spider-Man. They were drawing their own stories with their own characters. They owned a block, stock, and barrel, and they looked like they were having a hell of a lot of fun.

Tim Fulton 5:34Well, and they had complete control over it too.

Jeff Smith 5:36Had complete control-

Tim Fulton 5:37There was no editorial-

Jeff Smith 5:37... over their own schedule.

Tim Fulton 5:38Right.

Jeff Smith 5:38Yeah, over editorial. Their covers. You gotta do everything from the covers all the way through. So, um, I just figured out how to do that, did a little research, got my first book together.

Tim Fulton 5:51Okay.

Jeff Smith 5:51And there it was.

Tim Fulton 5:51So how does the distribution of that work in order to, like, ramp up? Was there a time where you were just calling comic book shops and saying, "Would you guys like to take 15 of these?"

Jeff Smith 6:01No, it wasn't quite that.

Tim Fulton 6:03Okay.

Jeff Smith 6:03It wasn't quite that self-published.

Tim Fulton 6:05Okay.

Jeff Smith 6:06That I was, what I did is I went and I talked to some of the comic book stores, and they explained that they get their comics out of these catalogs.

Tim Fulton 6:14Right.

Jeff Smith 6:15Like, so there's like diamond comic distributors.

Tim Fulton 6:17Okay.

Jeff Smith 6:18And they have like a giant, fat catalog that's like three inches thick or two inches thick or something. And you just have to submit it to 'em.

Tim Fulton 6:25Gotcha.

Jeff Smith 6:26And if they accept it, they'll put it in there, and, you know, it's about three months ahead of time. And then you, however many orders you get, you-

Tim Fulton 6:34You gotta be ready to do it

Jeff Smith 6:35... you gotta be ready to do it. And that's, the, and you kind of have to kind of agreed to get the book done and-

Tim Fulton 6:41In a certain amount of time

Jeff Smith 6:41... to the printers in, in there.

Tim Fulton 6:42Okay.

Jeff Smith 6:43Yeah. You've got a, like a, you now have a contract with the distributor who has made a c- deal with all the, the stores.

Tim Fulton 6:49Okay. What, and so bringing your wife on was a necessity at that point to, like, you were like, "I'm not gonna be able to make this happen."

Jeff Smith 6:57Yeah. No, I could tell something good was happening. It was starting to, Bone was getting really good reviews-

Tim Fulton 7:02Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 7:02... and it was getting talked about and starting to win awards.

Tim Fulton 7:05Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 7:05And I was going to comic book shows and meeting people that I just adored, like, like Frank Miller or Neil Gaiman, and they would be patting me on the back and-

Tim Fulton 7:13Wow

Jeff Smith 7:13... giving me encouragement. And the sales were starting to go up. And I was, like I said, I was falling behind. I wasn't making comics. I was selling comic books to every comic book store in America, you know?

Tim Fulton 7:26Right.

Jeff Smith 7:27If, if they wanted three copies of number four or one copy of number one, I would pick 'em out of the boxes in my closet.

Tim Fulton 7:32Oh, so you had to do that?

Jeff Smith 7:33I was l- yeah.

Tim Fulton 7:34Okay.

Jeff Smith 7:34Literally put 'em in boxes or envelopes, putting 'em on a UPS truck, invoicing 'em.

Tim Fulton 7:39So it was that complicated. You know-

Jeff Smith 7:41It was very complicated.

Tim Fulton 7:42Yeah.

Jeff Smith 7:43It was complicated. And back then we didn't have photo- I wasn't using Photoshop. That had not been invented yet. This is in '91.

Tim Fulton 7:49Okay.

Jeff Smith 7:49So it, you had to actually do overlays and use Ruby Lith and, you know, X-Acto knives and chart pack lettering. It's kind of hard to believe.

Tim Fulton 7:58Some- sometimes the fun stuff, you know?

Jeff Smith 8:00Mm.

Tim Fulton 8:00But-

Jeff Smith 8:01Yeah

Tim Fulton 8:01... are you totally not doing that anymore?

Jeff Smith 8:02It was fun. It was, oh, God, no, it's all Photoshop.

Tim Fulton 8:04Okay.

Jeff Smith 8:05Which still requires, you know, it takes skill.

Tim Fulton 8:08Right.

Jeff Smith 8:08And time.

Tim Fulton 8:08But it's not as meticulous.

Jeff Smith 8:10No, no.

Tim Fulton 8:10Like-

Jeff Smith 8:10I, I look back on that and I just don't even know how that was, how that was even possible.

Tim Fulton 8:15So back to the, the Columbus question, what ins- you guys came back, but what has inspired you to stay? I mean, there's, there's not a whole lot. We do have the Billy Ireland Cartoon Research Library at Ohio State. That wasn't here at that point. What inspired you to stay in Columbus, Ohio? Was it simply your roots, your family?

Jeff Smith 8:36Yeah, a lot of it. I mean, we were in the Bay Area, and Bone was taking off.

Tim Fulton 8:40Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 8:40We started to look around for a place out there, and it just seemed really horribly expensive.

Tim Fulton 8:45Okay.

Jeff Smith 8:45And also, I can't stand stucco.

Tim Fulton 8:47Okay.

Jeff Smith 8:48And there's no brick. 'Cause of the earthquakes, they literally can't have brick-

Tim Fulton 8:51Okay

Jeff Smith 8:52... 'cause then I guess the mortar in between just crumbles.

Tim Fulton 8:54Okay.

Jeff Smith 8:55So we th- we said, "Well, let, I, now that we have this book that's doing all right, we could go back to German Village and actually buy a house." And 'cause I love German Village.

Tim Fulton 9:05Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 9:05I lived there when I was going to college. And so that's what we did. We came back, and the Billy Ireland was there. The Billy Ireland's been there since like 1979.

Tim Fulton 9:12Oh, okay.

Jeff Smith 9:13And I'd known Lucy since I was doing the comic strip in The Lantern. And she-

Tim Fulton 9:17Lucy, the founder.

Jeff Smith 9:18Lucy Caswell, who was the curator.

Tim Fulton 9:20Right.

Jeff Smith 9:20Uh, she's now semi-retired.

Tim Fulton 9:22Okay.

Jeff Smith 9:22But, uh, now Jenny Raab is, is, uh, is running it.

Tim Fulton 9:25Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 9:26They have a great staff there.

Tim Fulton 9:27Yeah.

Jeff Smith 9:27And I've always gotten along with them. I've always felt like part of the, the family.

Tim Fulton 9:31Well, and I imagine you were interacting with them to an extent 'cause you were doing comics for The Lantern.

Jeff Smith 9:35Exactly.

Tim Fulton 9:36Okay.

Jeff Smith 9:36And I would hang out there. I mean, especially in the early days when it was just Lucy and she had like one assistant, and it was just like two rooms at the bottom of the J building, the journalism building.

Tim Fulton 9:44Right.

Jeff Smith 9:45And, but I would go in, like, at lunch and just read whole runs of, like, Popeye or, or Pogo or s- or Milton Caniff's Terry and the Pirates. Damn.

Tim Fulton 9:54Okay. So but it was much m- less a public space then. It wasn't sort of-

Jeff Smith 9:58No, it was definitely-

Tim Fulton 9:59Like it was like two research rooms

Jeff Smith 10:00... uh, e- exactly.

Tim Fulton 10:01Okay.

Jeff Smith 10:01It was a specialty library.

Tim Fulton 10:03Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 10:03People, hardly anybody, I mean, hardly anybody even knew about it.

Tim Fulton 10:06Right.

Jeff Smith 10:06So-

Tim Fulton 10:06Well, I made the assumption it didn't exist until-

Jeff Smith 10:08Exactly

Tim Fulton 10:09... the 2000s, right.

Jeff Smith 10:10Well, I watched Lucy Caswell, I- her vision and her ambition and for this concept of a library of original art-

Tim Fulton 10:19Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 10:20... and, and treating comics as art. I watched it grow. It moved from the two little rooms over to a fairly nice place over by the Wexner Center.

Tim Fulton 10:28Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 10:29Although it was still kind of in the basement.

Tim Fulton 10:30Right.

Jeff Smith 10:31And then to have it go to the, to the gateway of campus-

Tim Fulton 10:35Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 10:35... 15th and High in the Solomon building is, it's, is, is absolutely unbelievable what a beautiful place that is.

Tim Fulton 10:40Well, it's a testament to the, first of all, to the collection, but also to the work that she has done and, and the staff there has done to, to build it up.

Jeff Smith 10:47Yeah. She has cultivated quite a good relationship with cartoonists-

Tim Fulton 10:53Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 10:53... in this country. I mean, uh, like I met Art Spiegelman. I met Will Eisner. I met Jim Davis. I met all the, I met Bill Watterson. I met all these cartoonists when I was still an undergrad-

Tim Fulton 11:05Okay

Jeff Smith 11:05... because they came to her classroom to talk because they loved her.

Tim Fulton 11:09Wow.

Jeff Smith 11:10So it was a, so there wa- there was more stuff going around down here too. When I left for s- the Bay Area, the, the Short North was just this gray-

Tim Fulton 11:19Yes

Jeff Smith 11:20... no man's land.

Tim Fulton 11:21Right.

Jeff Smith 11:21I mean, the only thing in there was, like, the Burlesque Garden Place.

Tim Fulton 11:24Right.

Jeff Smith 11:26And when I came back, the Short North was there.

Tim Fulton 11:29Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 11:29I mean, you had, you had restaurants and galleries and, and over the la- and I came back about 25 years ago. So those 25 years I have seen this town go really from just a little town where, you know, they turn the lights off at 6:00 and-

Tim Fulton 11:43Right

Jeff Smith 11:44... and they, and the, the stoplights used to go on blink at 10:00. Do you remember that?

Tim Fulton 11:48I, I do not.

Jeff Smith 11:49Okay. To a, it's, it's a really happening, hip little town now.

Tim Fulton 11:53Yeah.

Jeff Smith 11:54Stop me if I'm just rambling.

Tim Fulton 11:55No, I love it.

Jeff Smith 11:56I noticed that, like, the Columbus Museum of Art-

Tim Fulton 11:59Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 12:00... was the first museum in the country to display Robert Crumb's Genesis, all the original art. Robert Crumb, the-

Tim Fulton 12:08Yeah, yeah

Jeff Smith 12:08... the famous underground sex, drug, and rock and roll-

Tim Fulton 12:11Right

Jeff Smith 12:11... guy.

Tim Fulton 12:12And there will be links to all these names in the show notes for this episode

Jeff Smith 12:16He did good. Good for you. And go look at them. You will not be sad. He did the Book of Genesis.

Tim Fulton 12:22Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 12:22Literally. He didn't... He wasn't making a joke. I mean, he really drew it out straight for real, which is a trip because you don't really... I don't think you really read it unless you see the pictures-

Tim Fulton 12:33Right

Jeff Smith 12:33... and you're like, "This is crazy."

Tim Fulton 12:35Yeah.

Jeff Smith 12:35There's some really crazy stuff in there. 300 pages. The Columbus Museum of Art displayed all 300 pages in consecutive order around five galleries.

Tim Fulton 12:46The original work.

Jeff Smith 12:47The original artwork.

Tim Fulton 12:48Okay.

Jeff Smith 12:48And there, there was f- it was, like I said, the first in the country, I-

Tim Fulton 12:51When was that?

Jeff Smith 12:53... can't believe it. It had to be 10 years ago now-

Tim Fulton 12:54Okay

Jeff Smith 12:55... or so.

Tim Fulton 12:55Okay.

Jeff Smith 12:57I started noticing other things like that, like CCAD was bringing in Chris Ware-

Tim Fulton 13:02Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 13:02... who's, like, one of the most respected New York Times bestselling cartoonists, to speak to the, to the students. They also brought in Marjane Satrapi, who did Persepolis.

Tim Fulton 13:13Okay.

Jeff Smith 13:13The Wexner Center did shows with me and with Dan Clowes.

Tim Fulton 13:18Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 13:18Again, the, Dan Clowes is, he's, like, one of those alternative comic rocks, you know?

Tim Fulton 13:23Yeah.

Jeff Smith 13:24And of course, the Billy was bringing in everybody for, like, 20 years. They've been bringing Will Eisner and, as I said, Bill Watterson, everybody. Sergio Aragones, the guy who does those little tiny silent drawings in the margins of Mad Magazine.

Tim Fulton 13:35Yes, yes.

Jeff Smith 13:36I mean, there's just, just all these cartoonists.

Tim Fulton 13:37Well, and it's great that all those people are coming in here, and I think it's a evidence of the continued success of Cartoon Crossroads Columbus, but none of those other people live here.

Jeff Smith 13:48Right.

Tim Fulton 13:48You haven't convinced any of them to come-

Jeff Smith 13:51Um-

Tim Fulton 13:51Yet

Jeff Smith 13:51... well, I don't-

Tim Fulton 13:52Or, and come and stay

Jeff Smith 13:53... there, we've, we've g- Noah Van Sciver has moved here.

Tim Fulton 13:56Okay.

Jeff Smith 13:56And he's a very good cartoonist.

Tim Fulton 13:57There you go.

Jeff Smith 13:58He's got a new book out. But yeah, well, I like it because I'm from here.

Tim Fulton 14:02Right, okay.

Jeff Smith 14:03But part of our idea with Cartoon Crossroads Columbus, or CXC-

Tim Fulton 14:07Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 14:07... is to get people to enjoy the city. Because it's a four-day festival with two days on campus, two days downtown-

Tim Fulton 14:14Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 14:14... with the art museum, and the library, and the art college, CCAD.

Tim Fulton 14:18And again, events sort of at various places at the university.

Jeff Smith 14:22Yeah, at the Wexner.

Tim Fulton 14:23And then at-

Jeff Smith 14:23It's at the Wexner Center for the Arts, and at the Billy Ireland Cartoon Library & Museum. And there's another one that Pop Culture puts on called SolCon.

Tim Fulton 14:32Okay.

Jeff Smith 14:32And that's, uh, the, the subtitle is The Black and Brown Comics Expo.

Tim Fulton 14:36Okay.

Jeff Smith 14:37And we're, we've, we are working together with them, and that's actually pretty fun.

Tim Fulton 14:40And then what are the venues downtown?

Jeff Smith 14:43The venues downtown are the, on Saturday and Sunday, we have a m- typical place where people are tabling-

Tim Fulton 14:49Okay

Jeff Smith 14:49... the Comics Ex- Exhibit Hall. You'll see cartoonists. They're signing books. They're selling copies of their stuff. That's in the main library downtown. It's-

Tim Fulton 14:57Are you going to be tabling at that?

Jeff Smith 14:58I'll be, yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:59Okay.

Jeff Smith 14:59I'll be tabling. We're, it's, it's curated, and we, we aim more towards cartoonists that are authors-

Tim Fulton 15:07Okay

Jeff Smith 15:07... who have their own voice. I prefer artists who write and draw their own material.

Tim Fulton 15:11Okay.

Jeff Smith 15:12I don't care if they're self-published. I just care that they, it's their voice.

Tim Fulton 15:16Got it.

Jeff Smith 15:17That it's not a, you know, corporate character like, you know, Spider-Man or something.

Tim Fulton 15:21Got it. Spider-Man will just-

Jeff Smith 15:22I don't mind that

Tim Fulton 15:22... right. Spider-Man's fine, but it will forever in this episode be thought of as the, the example of a corporate character that's been-

Jeff Smith 15:31Yeah

Tim Fulton 15:31... written by group think-

Jeff Smith 15:32Exactly

Tim Fulton 15:32... and then executed by others.

Jeff Smith 15:33Yeah. There's an editor, there's a writer, there's a-

Tim Fulton 15:36Right

Jeff Smith 15:36... penciler, there's an inker, there's a letterer. It's all, it's an assembly line. And-

Tim Fulton 15:39Have you worked in that environment before?

Jeff Smith 15:41A little, yeah.

Tim Fulton 15:42Okay.

Jeff Smith 15:42A little bit.

Tim Fulton 15:43What don't you like about it? It's simply because it's not your voice?

Jeff Smith 15:46Yes.

Tim Fulton 15:47Okay.

Jeff Smith 15:47That's all. I don't have a problem with it, and there are, there have been geniuses that work in comics like Jack Kirby or-

Tim Fulton 15:52Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 15:53... or Joe Kubert or Neal Adams. I mean, these guys are monsters. I mean, they're just so good. But I just would rather read, um, Raina Telgemeier, who does books for teenagers.

Tim Fulton 16:05Okay.

Jeff Smith 16:05She does Smile, and Drama, and Ghosts.

Tim Fulton 16:08Okay.

Jeff Smith 16:08And she came out last year. She's telling her story, and that's what's interesting. You're gonna get a point of view. You're gonna hear an author's voice.

Tim Fulton 16:16Right. For those that sort of discount comics as a children's medium, do you have a good stump speech of, this is the virtue of comics and graphic novels?

Jeff Smith 16:28For, that they're for everybody?

Tim Fulton 16:31Yes.

Jeff Smith 16:32Uh, I mean, I don't have a good st-

Tim Fulton 16:32Well, and that they're both high art and low art and, you know-

Jeff Smith 16:35Yeah

Tim Fulton 16:35... and can be a lot of different things. It's a, it's a narrative format that is able to be presented in a different way.

Jeff Smith 16:42Yeah. It's, it's, it's kind of blends cinema and n- novel-

Tim Fulton 16:48Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 16:49... or, or writing, prose writing.

Tim Fulton 16:50Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 16:50You've got the best of both worlds. You have to, you have visual images that give you cues as to how fast to read or where to take your eye.

Tim Fulton 16:59Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 16:59You got the word balloons that have the actual text of what people are saying. But you don't always have to say everything that's going on, and a lot of the story's taking place in the drawings-

Tim Fulton 17:10Right

Jeff Smith 17:10... in the artwork, and that's kind of the crucial thing. It's that jump over from one box to the next box that's the whole art. Because how far the characters have changed, that's what tells you what's going on, and you as the reader have to really engage and be much more active about it than, say, when you're watching a movie. It's a very passive experience where the director is, is washing this story over you, and you just, you enjoy it-

Tim Fulton 17:38Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 17:38... 'cause it's, 'cause you got a good director. But you have to be a little bit more engaged with a comic.

Tim Fulton 17:43Uh-

Jeff Smith 17:43And if that's interesting, then check it out.

Tim Fulton 17:46And if it's not, fine.

Jeff Smith 17:48Right.

Tim Fulton 17:48But that's not, you know-

Jeff Smith 17:49Yeah, I don't care.

Tim Fulton 17:50You

Jeff Smith 17:51Come back. Come, you'll come. People will come. People do come.

Tim Fulton 17:54You and I are talking, I think, the week after San Diego Comic-Con.

Jeff Smith 17:58Yeah.

Tim Fulton 17:58First of all, you have a good time this year?

Jeff Smith 18:00I had a fantastic time. I just got back two d- I got back Monday night.

Tim Fulton 18:05Okay. And so w- we were talking as we were walking in here today, you don't mind it. That's sort of, you know, the promo- the self-promotion is, you realize it's part of the business. You like meeting fans. What are some of the aspects of the business that people don't think about that, you know, you're talking to aspiring comic book artists at this point.

Jeff Smith 18:25Right.

Tim Fulton 18:26What are the aspects of the b- what's the hard part?

Jeff Smith 18:29Well, well, the hard part obviously is getting people to order your book.

Tim Fulton 18:33Okay. 'Cause it's still distributed essentially the same way.

Jeff Smith 18:37Yeah, it is essentially.

Tim Fulton 18:38There are distributors.

Jeff Smith 18:38It's, the industry has grown up since the time I got into it.

Tim Fulton 18:43Okay.

Jeff Smith 18:43At that time, it was only in comic book stores.

Tim Fulton 18:46Okay.

Jeff Smith 18:47Now, it is in comic book stores, it's online-

Tim Fulton 18:50Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 18:50... it's on Amazon, it's digital in Comixology, it's in Barnes & Noble, it's in, you know, the libraries.

Tim Fulton 18:57But much more limited there.

Jeff Smith 18:58Hmm?

Tim Fulton 18:59Much more limited there. Well, the graphic novels I guess aren't-

Jeff Smith 19:02Right. Well, and the graphic novels, that to me is-

Tim Fulton 19:04Okay

Jeff Smith 19:04... a big step up, and that was a big part of what my kind of wave of cartoonists was all about.

Tim Fulton 19:11Okay.

Jeff Smith 19:12Creating your own stuff, owning and controlling it, and then graphic novels because two reasons. One, they have a higher profit margin-

Tim Fulton 19:21Right

Jeff Smith 19:21... than a little flimsy book.

Tim Fulton 19:22Right.

Jeff Smith 19:23Two, it, your book can stay in print. Comic books don't stay in print. They just-

Tim Fulton 19:26Gotcha

Jeff Smith 19:27... they just come down off the shelf and go into a long box in a plastic bag, right?

Tim Fulton 19:31Right.

Jeff Smith 19:31And they're gone. A good, good trade book like Watchmen or-

Tim Fulton 19:35Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 19:36... Maus or Persepolis or whatever, those, uh, those get restocked-

Tim Fulton 19:41Right

Jeff Smith 19:41... and they sell perennially, and that's something any artist wants. You know, you want your art out there.

Tim Fulton 19:45Well, it's an ongoing revenue stream. It allows you to continue making work, or, I mean, frankly, there is some point that you could probably just say, "I have enough ongoing revenue and I'm gonna stop-

Jeff Smith 19:56Yeah

Tim Fulton 19:56... and just go to-"

Jeff Smith 19:57I d- you're not gonna find too many comic book artists that are gonna say that.

Tim Fulton 20:00I would hope, I would hope not. You're, 'cause you're not in it for, you know, the wealth and fame. You're, you're in it because you like doing the work.

Jeff Smith 20:06Yeah, that is very true. Y- there's, cartoonists, I mean, they're, you know, they're pretty far down on the ladder of... Graphic novels have kind of raised up our, our, our, I don't know, our, I don't know what to call it, our ladder rung we're on.

Tim Fulton 20:22Okay.

Jeff Smith 20:24Yeah, if you, somebody who's a cartoonist is doing it because they have to. They just-

Tim Fulton 20:28Right

Jeff Smith 20:28... can't not do it. Well, you're not gonna get a lot of girls and fast cars being a comic book guy.

Tim Fulton 20:33That's fair. That's fair. You've chosen to, you know, be self-published, control your own work, but there are certainly other aspects of the business you don't have a problem with. I think you just signed, someone optioned a, a children's book that you're doing.

Jeff Smith 20:50Yes, right.

Tim Fulton 20:51And so you don't mind interacting with that world. It's sort of-

Jeff Smith 20:55No. No, not at all. I mean, there are some people that are very purist about w- anything.

Tim Fulton 21:00Okay.

Jeff Smith 21:01And I am purist about, like, I want to own and do my own stuff and kinda control my schedule and all that kind of stuff.

Tim Fulton 21:08Right.

Jeff Smith 21:08But I'm not offended by somebody who works at Marvel or DC. I mean, people have to make a living, right?

Tim Fulton 21:14Right.

Jeff Smith 21:14And may- and some people really love Spider-Man.

Tim Fulton 21:18Right.

Jeff Smith 21:18I guess that's who we're stick, that's who we're picking on.

Tim Fulton 21:19Right, that's our default.

Jeff Smith 21:20No, but what I mean, like-

Tim Fulton 21:20And also movies are-

Jeff Smith 21:22... you have, I guess the example that I was trying to make, Bone has been optioned for a movie, and so that's gonna be, they're working on that. That's gonna come out at some point. Bone is also, there are vinyl dolls of the cousin, they're cousins, right?

Tim Fulton 21:34Yeah, yeah. Right.

Jeff Smith 21:35Of the cousins. Um-

Tim Fulton 21:36And they're all orphans. I don't know.

Jeff Smith 21:37Right. And but-

Tim Fulton 21:37There must've been some terrible family disaster that I don't know about.

Jeff Smith 21:40But th- they're yours.

Tim Fulton 21:43But you don't have a problem with, I mean, you didn't mold Bone, right, into, like, the vinyl figurine and then-

Jeff Smith 21:50No, no, no. We-

Tim Fulton 21:51... send it off to a shop to-

Jeff Smith 21:52No. We license it. That's a-

Tim Fulton 21:53Okay

Jeff Smith 21:54... that's a, that's like a big part of our business model is, Vijaya, I write and draw the comics, and I promote them.

Tim Fulton 22:00Okay.

Jeff Smith 22:00Vijaya runs the, the business, so she deals with lawyers, and she deals with, uh, the, the printers-

Tim Fulton 22:07Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 22:08... and shipping and deals with the distributors, and she licenses to foreign publishers, for example.

Tim Fulton 22:13Okay.

Jeff Smith 22:14Like, Bone's like in 33 languages, I believe right now.

Tim Fulton 22:17Wow, okay.

Jeff Smith 22:18And that's all, that's what she does. And she also does, if somebody wants to do a toy or something. And, and I don't mind if, if it's something I kinda want, like a little figurine or a little-

Tim Fulton 22:27That's awesome.

Jeff Smith 22:27I like that.

Tim Fulton 22:27Right.

Jeff Smith 22:27That's awesome. I have a lunchbox, you know. That kind of stuff's cool. So yeah, no, I don't have any problem with that.

Tim Fulton 22:32So you-

Jeff Smith 22:32And the book is by Scholastic, the children's book. And Scholastic actually does a version. We licensed Bone in color-

Tim Fulton 22:39Okay

Jeff Smith 22:40... to Scholastic for North America.

Tim Fulton 22:42Okay.

Jeff Smith 22:42And so they pu- print that, and it's in, like, the little catalogs you used to get when you were a kid-

Tim Fulton 22:46Yeah

Jeff Smith 22:46... in school. You know, you get the little Scholastic thing and-

Tim Fulton 22:49They guilt you and your parents into buying you five-

Jeff Smith 22:51Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Tim Fulton 22:51... five books every fiscal quarter.

Jeff Smith 22:53Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:53Right?

Jeff Smith 22:53Yeah, buy, yeah, buy five Bone books, kids. And so, but we still self-publish the 1,400-page black and white-

Tim Fulton 23:01Oh, okay

Jeff Smith 23:01... paperback. We publish that ourselves.

Tim Fulton 23:03Okay.

Jeff Smith 23:03But they, they publish the color ones and, and have pretty much all the market on the color.

Tim Fulton 23:10Back to Cartoon Crossroads Columbus, again, coming up September 28th through October 4th. Talk about some of the, again, it's at multiple venues, both on campus for the first two days and then downtown for two days. Talk about some of the experiences people can have. They're mostly talks, I assume, panel discussions.

Jeff Smith 23:30Well, it really runs-

Tim Fulton 23:30What, what sort of programming can people expect?

Jeff Smith 23:31It really runs the gamut from, like, if, you know, people that are interested in cartooning or people that wanna be a cartoonist.

Tim Fulton 23:38Okay.

Jeff Smith 23:38There's a whole range of portfolio reviews or actual workshops.

Tim Fulton 23:42Wow, okay.

Jeff Smith 23:42They have these things called, uh, teach-in talks, which are really, these are really talented cartoonists, and they'll get up and give just a really quick 20-minute discussion with a slideshow.

Tim Fulton 23:54Okay.

Jeff Smith 23:54And those are usually really, really good 'cause that, the, that 20 minutes is concise. And-

Tim Fulton 23:59And these are people that haven't, quote unquote, "made it" yet.

Jeff Smith 24:02No, no. They're mo-

Tim Fulton 24:03Oh, okay.

Jeff Smith 24:03Yeah. Most of the people there are, are, have made it or are just w- you know, in our view-

Tim Fulton 24:09They're not, they're not pitching their stuff.

Jeff Smith 24:11No.

Tim Fulton 24:11They are just talking about how they work.

Jeff Smith 24:12They're, yeah. They're, like, we had Lalo Alcaraz, who's-

Tim Fulton 24:14Okay

Jeff Smith 24:15... editorial cartoonist in, in LA.

Tim Fulton 24:18Okay.

Jeff Smith 24:18And he came, and he's, I mean, he's very famous and, but he gave one of these talks, and it's just, it's wonderful to hear- You know, his stories about, you know, the, the kind of hate mail he gets or whatever.

Tim Fulton 24:29Okay.

Jeff Smith 24:31Um-

Tim Fulton 24:31Well, and it should be noted, that's a lot of the work that... or at least my understanding is the Billy Ireland Cartoon Research Library has a whole lot of political cartoons.

Jeff Smith 24:42Yes, they do. And that's... I should say that CXC completely covers the entire cartooning range of disciplines.

Tim Fulton 24:49Oh, okay.

Jeff Smith 24:50They do animation, uh, do comic books, do graphic novels. We do comic strips.

Tim Fulton 24:56Okay.

Jeff Smith 24:56And it's all cartoons. So, um, the Wexner Center, they have a great film department.

Tim Fulton 25:00Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 25:01Dave Philippie is actually on our, uh, advisory board.

Tim Fulton 25:04Okay.

Jeff Smith 25:05And he brings in great animators. Last year he had Mark Osborne, who had just done The Little Prince. He originally did-

Tim Fulton 25:12Oh, okay

Jeff Smith 25:12... and that was, like, a big... That was kind of a big deal because-

Tim Fulton 25:16Yeah

Jeff Smith 25:16... um, you, he... I don't know. I, I thought it was a pretty good movie. And he also did Kung Fu Panda-

Tim Fulton 25:21Okay

Jeff Smith 25:21... originally. And this year he's got two experimental artists, a- and I'm really looking forward to them. Uh, but it's like that.

Tim Fulton 25:28Okay.

Jeff Smith 25:28So we... there's every two years there's an academic conference that's legit. I mean-

Tim Fulton 25:33Okay

Jeff Smith 25:34... people are, you know, doing pr- papers and stuff.

Tim Fulton 25:36But that is not this year, though.

Jeff Smith 25:38That's not this year.

Tim Fulton 25:38Okay.

Jeff Smith 25:38But last year it was really amazing, and it was very... I c- I couldn't believe how crowded that was.

Tim Fulton 25:43Okay.

Jeff Smith 25:44It was really good. There's also just, you know, just talks, spotlights. Raina Telgemeier, who I mentioned earlier, did Smile.

Tim Fulton 25:51Okay.

Jeff Smith 25:51She's, she's massively popular, especially with, like, you know, young, you know, YA girls.

Tim Fulton 25:58Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 25:59You know, just... So we, we do-- I interviewed her in front of a room just filled with young, young girls.

Tim Fulton 26:05Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 26:05And I, at one point, I even asked, "How many of you want to be a cartoonist when you grow up?" All of them put up their hand.

Tim Fulton 26:11Just hands right up.

Jeff Smith 26:11Yeah, and that's 'cause of Raina. I mean-

Tim Fulton 26:13Okay

Jeff Smith 26:13... so but it was... so that was more like just like a let's talk about Raina, talk to her, and sh- you know, let the... take questions from the, the audience. And then every night we have like one big event.

Tim Fulton 26:23Okay.

Jeff Smith 26:23You know, that's like the, the capper. Like, last year it was Garry Trudeau, and this year, yeah, we've got, like, uh, Derf, Backderf.

Tim Fulton 26:31Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 26:31Who's a cartoonist at OSU. Just right before I was, we were doing comics there, he was doing editorial cartoons.

Tim Fulton 26:37Okay.

Jeff Smith 26:37He's got a new book out. Well, it's not, the book's not new. It was called My Friend Dahmer.

Tim Fulton 26:41Yes.

Jeff Smith 26:42He went to high school with Dahmer. The book is brilliant, but he got-- but a movie was made of it.

Tim Fulton 26:48Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 26:48And we're gonna be one of the first places to show it.

Tim Fulton 26:51Oh, that's great.

Jeff Smith 26:52So that's gonna be, like, Friday night. Just go to the website.

Tim Fulton 26:55Right.

Jeff Smith 26:55CartoonCrossroadsColumbus.com. So there's just, there's something every... That's a big event.

Tim Fulton 27:01That's great. That's great. And it should be noted, the event, some of the events are ticketed individually, but the, the conference as a whole is free.

Jeff Smith 27:10Yes, it's a free citywide festival.

Tim Fulton 27:12That's great. I just wanna wrap up with sort of, again, we've talked about why you stayed in Columbus, but can you talk about the Columbus art scene specifically, what good things you see happening here, what things could Columbus do better at, or even Columbus in general, not just the Columbus art scene, could do better at?

Jeff Smith 27:28Actually, the Columbus art scene is partly why we came back here.

Tim Fulton 27:32Okay.

Jeff Smith 27:33Uh, it's... Uh, uh, though I was kind of alluding to it with the museums-

Tim Fulton 27:37Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 27:37... doing things and ha- bringing the cartoonists. There's a real cartoon-friendly-

Tim Fulton 27:42Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 27:42... supportive atmosphere in this city. And the art scene in general is, seems really hip. A lot of pop-up events.

Tim Fulton 27:50Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 27:50There's a lot of places like The j- the Junction used to be, and-

Tim Fulton 27:53Junction City Studios

Jeff Smith 27:54... Idea Foundry.

Tim Fulton 27:55Yep.

Jeff Smith 27:55There's a lot of... I mean, there's a lot of good energy, and it's, uh, very young-

Tim Fulton 28:00Yeah

Jeff Smith 28:00... for the most part. So I, I think there's a lot going on that's good. I'm part of GCAC's, uh, Columbus Makes Art, and that's been a really good experience for me, and I've seen the way they work with the cartoonists, and they kind of get them out into the city, and that's-- and the city really is, seems very supportive.

Tim Fulton 28:17Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 28:18The Dispatch has been really very... and all their papers, like Alive and-

Tim Fulton 28:21Mm-hmm

Jeff Smith 28:22... they've been really, really, really good, not just to us, but to, like, they have... you know, there's a lot of art sections in them.

Tim Fulton 28:29Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 28:30So I, I'm, I think it's a pretty good town for this.

Tim Fulton 28:33Any, uh, opportunities for improvement?

Jeff Smith 28:36Oh, well, I'm not gonna cut off my nose to spite my face. No, I actually can't think of a single thing.

Tim Fulton 28:40That's fair.

Jeff Smith 28:41I mean, I mean, I was, I was here at an event at the Idea Foundry not that long ago, and Mayor Coleman walks in.

Tim Fulton 28:48Mm-hmm.

Jeff Smith 28:48I mean, this town has a, has its heart in the right place when it comes to art.

Tim Fulton 28:52Yeah, absolutely. Great. Jeff, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite cartoonist. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our post-production engineer was Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.