Musician Angela Perley

Tim Fulton 0:07Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, on the occasion of their upcoming showcase at South by Southwest, I sat down with Angela Perley of Angela Perley and the Howlin' Moons. We talked about her career trajectory, how she works, the working relationships for the band, and why she chooses Columbus as her home base. You can also hear a couple of tracks from the band. A housekeeping note for you, the Confluence Cast is now on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or go straight on over to patreon.com/confluence. Also, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things art and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Angela Perley of Angela Perley and the Howlin' Moons. Angela, how are you?

Angela Perley 1:34Doing great. How are you doing?

Tim Fulton 1:35Doing good. Thanks for asking. We are sitting down here on the occasion of what is not your first, but your third appearance at South by Southwest coming up here in mid-March. Angela, you were playing on your own. You're, grew up in Hilliard, went to college at Ohio University with a degree in English. Talk about sort of how the Howlin' Moons got together. How did you, you guys start as a band?

Angela Perley 1:58Yeah, my roommate actually at OU, um, I guess it was our senior year, she was interning with Vital Companies in Columbus.

Tim Fulton 2:06Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 2:06Um, and she was doing, like, video production work, and that was what she was doing in college, and I was always a part of her kind of like video experiments and stuff.

Tim Fulton 2:13Okay.

Angela Perley 2:14Um, and but I was recording kind of my own demos just by myself on Pro Tools on my computer.

Tim Fulton 2:19Okay.

Angela Perley 2:20Um, and making a lot of these little CDs I'd put in paper bags. Um, and she brought one to Vital, um, and actually, like, fell out of her purse, and they... Like, Fred Blitzer there w- saw it, and he's like, "What?" You know, "What is that?" He was kind of intrigued and-

Tim Fulton 2:34So it's not that, like, somebody was like, "Hey, you should listen to this."

Angela Perley 2:37She, she actually wasn't, like

Tim Fulton 2:38Okay.

Angela Perley 2:39She, she wasn't gonna, like... It wasn't her plan to, like, be like, "Oh, here." You know, it just kind of, kind of randomly happened, and he was interested. And, um, he was, I think, he was starting his... Like, he has a studio at Vital.

Tim Fulton 2:51Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 2:51And they have, like, a mastering suite, and, um, they do video production. They do a little bit of everything. Um, but he was like, at that time, he was kind of interested in starting some music projects.

Tim Fulton 3:01Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 3:01'Cause he had been in the music industry as, like, an engineer and, like, even doing, like, live sound for bands-

Tim Fulton 3:07Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 3:07... for a long time, and then he got, kinda got away from it, and he wanted to, like, get back into it. So he listened to the songs, and he was actually really good friends with our guitar player, Chris Conner, and, um, our bass player now, Billy Zaino.

Tim Fulton 3:21And they were not part of your band before.

Angela Perley 3:22And they were not, yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:23Okay.

Angela Perley 3:24And I had no idea who they were or anything, but he had a relationship with them. And he was thinking, "Hey, um, maybe I could, like, professionally record this girl's music and, like, have them as studio musicians."

Tim Fulton 3:36Okay.

Angela Perley 3:36So he, like, h- he passed along the music to them and s- you know, asked them if they were interested and-

Tim Fulton 3:41And so you had been playing out before, right?

Angela Perley 3:43Yeah, yeah. I had a, I had a couple different bands in college. Um, there was one called Vintage Green that I actually played electric violin and, like, sang backups for.

Tim Fulton 3:51Okay.

Angela Perley 3:51And it was kind of like a folk rock band. And, and then I had a band, kind of a, a, an acoustic trio called Scarlet and the Yellow Moons.

Tim Fulton 3:59Okay.

Angela Perley 3:59That was kind of like an acoustic band of, like, with my music, a trio.

Tim Fulton 4:04And so now here we are with the Howlin' Moons.

Angela Perley 4:05Yeah. And then that... So that, yeah, it's kinda linked together. I wanted to... I've always, I'm obsessed with the moon, so I wanted to kinda... I don't even know how the band name came, came across, but that's kinda how it all got started.

Tim Fulton 4:17Okay.

Angela Perley 4:17So when everyone started, we had, uh, Jesse Cooper in the studio with us on the EPs at first.

Tim Fulton 4:21Of The Receiver.

Angela Perley 4:22Um, of The Receiver, yeah.

Tim Fulton 4:23Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 4:23So it, it was a great team, and it just ended up kind of all of a sudden turning into some live shows. So then we started playing. You know, we had a great time, and, uh, here we are, whatever, six years, however many years later.

Tim Fulton 4:35Okay.

Angela Perley 4:35It's just the time is going by, so but-

Tim Fulton 4:37Well, and so Fred is still your producer manager, or what, what is his role now?

Angela Perley 4:43Yeah, not, not really manager. I mean, he's m- he definitely is a mentor, and we-

Tim Fulton 4:46Okay

Angela Perley 4:46... whenever, you know, different things come up, come on, you know, we ask kinda Fred for advice and, uh... But he's, he's invested in the band basically. He's done all of our, um, recordings. Our, the music videos are all from Vital.

Tim Fulton 4:59Okay.

Angela Perley 5:00Um, so he's been a huge part. If anything, it's, and, and it's been kind of like a label that does, like, artist development.

Tim Fulton 5:08Okay.

Angela Perley 5:08'Cause he was kinda willing to w- we had four EPs that we kind of started, and I had, had never been into a professional studio, and I was, like, learning how to... I w- wasn't even really a singer. Um-

Tim Fulton 5:19Okay

Angela Perley 5:20I just liked writing songs and I liked performing, but I like hadn't really found my voice yet.

Tim Fulton 5:25Okay.

Angela Perley 5:26So he was like really patient, and by just putting me with a really good, good musicians like Chris and Billy, it just kind of started developing slowly over time, so.

Tim Fulton 5:34And so does that sort of build your confidence to hear sort of almost this more professional sound that you've, than you've heard before, and that allows you to sort of come out of your shell-

Angela Perley 5:43Yeah

Tim Fulton 5:43... and feel confident that what you guys are putting out is good?

Angela Perley 5:46Yeah. It did, you know, and it did even with the EPs, um, just having that team and-

Tim Fulton 5:51And so those were produced by Vital as well, right?

Angela Perley 5:53Yeah.

Tim Fulton 5:53Okay.

Angela Perley 5:54Yeah. And, and what happened was, so the EPs, all the EPs, which we started in 2010, I think was the first one.

Tim Fulton 6:02Okay.

Angela Perley 6:02Um, we tried to do like one each year. There was a couple times, I think one year we did two in a, two in a year.

Tim Fulton 6:08Okay.

Angela Perley 6:09Um, you know, six songs on each EP. Fred, he recorded, engineered, and produced those.

Tim Fulton 6:14Okay.

Angela Perley 6:14And then our last, our first full-length record, he brought in Michael Landolt to produce, and Jared Dipizzo from OAR.

Tim Fulton 6:22Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 6:22So then that, that was like a trio team, and then he was doing some producing too. So that for Hey Kid, that was our 2014 album.

Tim Fulton 6:30Okay.

Angela Perley 6:30Um, and then 2016, Homemade Vision, we had Michael Landolt produce that.

Tim Fulton 6:36And I'm sure this is a question that you get from people who don't interview musicians all the time, but how would you properly describe your music?

Angela Perley 6:44Yeah. Uh, it, you know, it's, it's a hard one lately where we've been.

Tim Fulton 6:49Would someone say alt country? They wouldn't say rockabilly. They wouldn't say rock and roll.

Angela Perley 6:54Right.

Tim Fulton 6:54They wouldn't say hip hop.

Angela Perley 6:56Yeah. Honestly, we've just been saying, lately we've just been saying it's rock and roll music, um, but it has, you know, country and blues influences.

Tim Fulton 7:05So female-fronted rock and roll, country and blues influenced band.

Angela Perley 7:10Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 7:10Got it. With that, let's give a sampling to the audience. Let's take a listen to White Doves. Can you tell us about the song real quick before the audience hears it?

Angela Perley 7:19Yeah. White Doves is kind of a, a song that it, it wasn't going to make it on the album. We were ki- it was kind of a brand new a- um, song that we were just kind of last minute working on, and it's kind of, it's very dreamy. Um, yeah.

Tim Fulton 7:32Great. Here is White Doves off of Homemade Vision.

Angela Perley 7:43Everything is falling. All I hear 'em calling. White doves in the sinking sand. Everything is falling. All I hear 'em calling. White doves in the sinking sand. It's true, I don't believe in nothing real. It's all a kind of perception, yeah. I wanna live just how I feel. I want a heart of a Cadillac. Hey you, with your dark sunglasses on. You're like a homemade vision. How about you show me what you got? I wanna breathe you in. Everything is falling. All I hear 'em calling. White doves in the sinking sand. Everything is falling. All I hear 'em calling. White doves in the sinking sand. You're good, you're sleeping all alone. Take comfort in your thoughts. You're wild and born to roam. He lives in the smallest places light, like a feather on my nose. His memory keeps me warm. Shine on you like a stone. He gave me a light in the dark and it kept on glowing. I planted a rose in the earth and it kept on growing. Yeah, it just don't break. Everything is falling. All I hear 'em calling. White doves in the sinking sand. Everything is falling. All I hear 'em calling. White doves in the sinking sand. Everything is falling. All I hear 'em calling. White doves in the sinking sand. Everything is falling. All I hear 'em calling. White doves in the sinking sand.

Tim Fulton 11:27Again, that was White Doves off of Homemade Vision, sitting down here with Angela Pearle of Angela Pearle and the Howlin' Moons. We were talking about sort of how you started working with Fred Blitzer and the band he put together for you. I'm curious why you g- 'cause you released four EPs and you've done two full lengths since then.

Angela Perley 11:46Yeah.

Tim Fulton 11:46I'm curious why that decision was made to put out the EPs before the full length. It wasn't for a lack of content, right?

Angela Perley 11:53Right. No, yeah, I had a, a ton of songs at that time, but, you know, I was definitely still finding my voice, and then obviously being paired with different musicians that I had just met.

Tim Fulton 12:04Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 12:04Um, it, you know, just finding that chemistry and figuring out what I wanted to be as an artist.

Tim Fulton 12:09Okay. So r- is it basically rather than, not waste, but rather, rather than spend a whole lot of time on something when it may go in a completely different direction-

Angela Perley 12:19Right.

Tim Fulton 12:19Okay.

Angela Perley 12:19No, yeah, I think that was the whole point, like Fred's idea of doing the EPs was, "Okay, she's not ready for, like, a full length album," which takes a lot of work-

Tim Fulton 12:27Okay

Angela Perley 12:27... a lot of dedication to, like, get it out there. Um, the EPs are a way to, like, professionally record songs, but you're kind of experimenting-

Tim Fulton 12:36Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 12:36... and kind of just being, kinda getting used to, "Okay, this is how it works in the studio."

Tim Fulton 12:42Well, and you were touring from the get-go, right? Or pretty close to the get-go.

Angela Perley 12:46Yeah, kind of. I think, yeah, we definitely... I just, I loved playing live and, and I was playing live at OU and doing, like, solo shows and shows with bands, so I had that kind of itch to... So as soon as I kind of got the Columbus band together and I was like, "Hey, you guy-," I started, like, booking some shows and-

Tim Fulton 13:01Right

Angela Perley 13:01... um, Fred actually booked us our first show, um, at-

Tim Fulton 13:04What was that?

Angela Perley 13:05It was, like, at the Rumba and it was for our, like-

Tim Fulton 13:07EP release

Angela Perley 13:08... I think it was for an EP release or something.

Tim Fulton 13:10Okay.

Angela Perley 13:10And, um, so that was kinda the first one, and then after that, then it's like we started, then I was, like, booking, like, uh, The Purple Fiddle in Thomas, West Virginia. I was, like-

Tim Fulton 13:19Okay

Angela Perley 13:19... booking some out-of-state stuff kinda, like, off the bat and-

Tim Fulton 13:22Well, and I had mentioned to someone that I was interviewing you today, and their primary thing was, "Have you seen how much she tours?" And, like-

Angela Perley 13:30Yeah

Tim Fulton 13:30... the kinds of pla- like, she will go and play anywhere.

Angela Perley 13:34Yes.

Tim Fulton 13:35And the EP, I imagine, lends itself a little bit to be able to send out ahead and say, "This is the kinda music I play."

Angela Perley 13:40Right.

Tim Fulton 13:41"This is who I am." You like touring, obviously.

Angela Perley 13:44Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I like touring, and then, you know, obviously, like, just from being an independent band, um, it's kind of the only way that we can, like, make money and have any kind of income is-

Tim Fulton 13:56Okay

Angela Perley 13:56... is, you know, touring.

Tim Fulton 13:57'Cause this is your job.

Angela Perley 13:58Yeah.

Tim Fulton 13:58Yeah.

Angela Perley 13:59Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:00Um-

Angela Perley 14:00So that's why there's so many gigs.

Tim Fulton 14:02Okay. And trying to line up things in between.

Angela Perley 14:05Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:05So, like, when you go, again, you're gonna go down to South by Southwest here in mid-March.

Angela Perley 14:09Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:09Have you lined up sort of your route?

Angela Perley 14:12Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We have... Well, we're kicking it off in Columbus. We're going to Cincinnati, Nashville, Memphis, Fort Worth, Texas, Dallas, Austin, Houston. Gosh, I'm missing some-

Tim Fulton 14:26So how long will you-

Angela Perley 14:27Yeah

Tim Fulton 14:27... be out from when you leave for South by Southwest till, till you make it back home?

Angela Perley 14:31Yeah. It's, um, it's a two-week tour.

Tim Fulton 14:33Okay.

Angela Perley 14:33So.

Tim Fulton 14:33So that's not bad.

Angela Perley 14:34Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:35Okay. So how did you get into music in the first place?

Angela Perley 14:38Uh, yeah, I just have always loved music, listening to music. As a kid, you know, I just, that was, like, kind of my highlight was, like, going to the, you know, back then, like the CD stores and-

Tim Fulton 14:48Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 14:48... just, you know, diving into music, and at the library, um, finding music. And my dad is an avid concert goer, so-

Tim Fulton 14:56Okay

Angela Perley 14:57... he was always taking me to concerts when I was really young, and I just loved the, um, live, live shows. It's definitely what I feed off of, so.

Tim Fulton 15:05Okay.

Angela Perley 15:05That got me hooked.

Tim Fulton 15:06Any formal training or just sort of you taught yourself?

Angela Perley 15:09Yeah. No, as far as, um, I did, I took, um, piano lessons and I was in orchestra, like, growing up, so that kinda gave me a foundation of, of just music theory to kinda go off of. But other than that, it wasn't, you know, I didn't go to college for music or anything, and no really singing experience other than just kind of like s- you know, for fun, singing in the shower and stuff. So I-

Tim Fulton 15:33Well, and in college-

Angela Perley 15:34Not formal training or anything.

Tim Fulton 15:35Gotcha. And in college you studied English, and I think it speaks a little bit to your songwriting, at least from what I've read. It starts with the words, right?

Angela Perley 15:44Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 15:44Can you walk us through that process? Is it you literally writing things out and showing it to the musicians that you're working with, or how does that work?

Angela Perley 15:51Yeah, I, yeah, I usually write the songs, um, y- mostly with an acoustic guitar.

Tim Fulton 15:58Okay.

Angela Perley 15:58Um, so I'll kinda be fiddling along with that, and then kind of songs will come, and very similar to, like, poetry. It's more, um, little glimpses of things put together that, and then I kind of-

Tim Fulton 16:09And some amount of stream of consciousness.

Angela Perley 16:10Yeah, it's more a stream of consciousness. Like, I don't really work that long on songs. Um, it depends, though. I'm ch- I, I'm always kind of changing how I write, um-

Tim Fulton 16:19Okay

Angela Perley 16:20... and so, like, you know, this recent album, there were... So there's been songs where I'm just, I have the, the words and the melody, um, and not really the composition of the song that I've had, and then I bring it to the band. Um, but usually I have basically everything. I have in mind what I want, and then I bring it to the guys, and then they make it, um, come alive with the composition, basically, and help with the arrangement.

Tim Fulton 16:44Great. And you guys do play out, uh, most of your work before you ever record it.

Angela Perley 16:49Yeah. We, we've tried to do that. Um, what was kinda cool about this last record, the Homemade Vision that we released in 2016, is that we didn't play any of the songs out, 'cause we were just playing so much. Um, and it used to be where we would test songs out live-

Tim Fulton 17:05Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 17:06... and we'd already ha- we'd been playing songs for years, and we finally recorded them, you know?

Tim Fulton 17:09Okay.

Angela Perley 17:09Um, but yeah, the, the Homemade Vision was the only record so far where, um, I just, I had all the songs, just their shells, you know? Just, like, kind of the bare bones of them, and then we went in the studio, and w- then we kind of worked it out in there, which was really fun. Um, but it, mainly that was because-

Tim Fulton 17:28Is that better, worse, diff- just different?

Angela Perley 17:30Yeah, it was different, but I, you know what, I kind of, um, enjoyed it because I feel like, um, then we had the, these exact kind of- ... things to go off of with the studio. Um-

Tim Fulton 17:41Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 17:41... and then so the-

Tim Fulton 17:42One with the bigger production team, too.

Angela Perley 17:43Yeah, and I feel like the songs actually sound, um... There's, there's not really much, I don't know, am- ambiguity or like y- the like, their songs are the songs. So like, when we play them live, like, that's the version we play. Like, there might be, there's maybe a couple that we're, like, extending or doing something different.

Tim Fulton 18:00Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 18:00But we're not... It's pretty close to the album.

Tim Fulton 18:03Okay.

Angela Perley 18:03Um, whereas a lot of times if we're playing a song out live a lot, you know, it just keeps changing over the years or whatever, and-

Tim Fulton 18:11It evolves, right

Angela Perley 18:12... it evolves and it's like, "Oh man, I wish we recorded that version," so.

Tim Fulton 18:16Okay.

Angela Perley 18:16Um, but somehow in not playing it live, it s- retains its, the recorded version. I don't know. So.

Tim Fulton 18:22Huh, that's interesting.

Angela Perley 18:24It's been, it was a good ex- I don't know if it's gonna be like that every time, but-

Tim Fulton 18:27Okay

Angela Perley 18:27... we actually had a, I had a lot of fun doing it that way this time.

Tim Fulton 18:30Gotcha. As we talk to artists, we, I want to focus on a lot on sort of, like, how you work. Obviously, you know, you book studio time, and those are hours that you need to take advantage of. When you're working outside the studio, when you're-

Angela Perley 18:43Right

Tim Fulton 18:44... writing, in fact, when you're doing some of the creative aspect of your work-

Angela Perley 18:48Yeah

Tim Fulton 18:48... how do you prefer to work?

Angela Perley 18:49Yeah.

Tim Fulton 18:50And then we'll get to the non-creative aspect in a second.

Angela Perley 18:52Right. I-

Tim Fulton 18:53Or does it just come?

Angela Perley 18:54It, it, yeah, it just comes and, you know, like I said, I, I'm definitely kind of a solo... Like, I like to kind of at least get most of the c- songs done kind of ahead of time and then-

Tim Fulton 19:05Okay

Angela Perley 19:05... and then bring it to the band. Um, but as far as, like, recording, we would do, before we went into the studio, we'd have, like... We would go into the studio, like, the week before for pre-production, and then that would be kind of a way that we could all kind of get closer to an idea of, like, okay, next week this is how these songs are gonna, like-

Tim Fulton 19:22Right, you're rehearsing basically.

Angela Perley 19:23Yeah. We're basically rehearsing before we go in.

Tim Fulton 19:25Okay.

Angela Perley 19:25So that's definitely essential. I think that's, like, super important to at least have... I, and I feel like a full week is, like, a great amount of time.

Tim Fulton 19:33Okay.

Angela Perley 19:33To like, to not... where, like, you have an idea of where you're going, but it's not too much, where you're not gonna like overthink things and, like, change things too much. Um, that's basically what we've been doing creatively-wise, like, before we go in.

Tim Fulton 19:45Gotcha. And then you do the booking for the band as well, right?

Angela Perley 19:49Um, the last year or so we actually d- have had a booking agent that's helped.

Tim Fulton 19:53Okay.

Angela Perley 19:54Um, so but I, yeah, have basically since 2009 up to, like, two years ago I was doing all the booking. Um, and that caught attention from a booking agency, Atomic Music Group. So, um, Trey Newman from there has been, um, booking for us for the last, like, two years.

Tim Fulton 20:13And Atomic Music Group, they are the ones bringing you down to South by Southwest as well?

Angela Perley 20:16Yeah, yeah. We'll be playing their, their day showcase on March 17th.

Tim Fulton 20:21How does that feel to sort of give up a little bit of that control, given that you had done it for so long and that you sort of knew-

Angela Perley 20:27Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 20:27... okay, here are the things I need to ask for from a venue. Here's how tightly I wanna book myself in terms of giving yourself time to drive a place if something happens.

Angela Perley 20:36Right. Oh, it was definitely an adjustment, and there's a lot of, um, even though I'm not booking, it's like I feel like I'm definitely, we're a team. We're, I'm constantly in communication with Trey and just figuring out, like, you know, 'cause he wants to, like, "Where do you guys wanna go? How did the show go? Do you wanna go there again?" You know, there's just a lot of coordinating, um, "When do you wanna do your next hometown show?" Like-

Tim Fulton 21:00Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 21:00... and sometimes things will just, like, appear. Like, they'll be like, "Oh, there's a, you know, Colorado date." And we're like, "I guess we're going out there," you know?

Tim Fulton 21:06Right.

Angela Perley 21:06So it's like, um-

Tim Fulton 21:07Well, and is it one of those things where it's like if there's a C- Colorado date, it's like, "Yeah, we'll do it, but you need to support us on our way there-

Angela Perley 21:14Right

Tim Fulton 21:14... and our way back"?

Angela Perley 21:15That's the big thing, is just, like, um, sometimes be- being a band like us too, it, we're still, you know, pretty under the radar, so-

Tim Fulton 21:23Okay

Angela Perley 21:23... even if we get, you know, a sweet show somewhere, you know, out of state, um, yeah, we do need, financially we need, you know, a couple shows to help link up to it-

Tim Fulton 21:32You gotta pay for the gas

Angela Perley 21:33... to just make it. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 21:34Right.

Angela Perley 21:34You know? And, you know, just pay the band members and, um, just to keep everyone happy you gotta, like, keep it, keep it rolling. So yeah, we try to get those link-ups. As soon as I see something that's, like, on the calendar that's like, you know, more than, you know, nine hours away somewhere, then I'm like, "Hey, what are your ideas?" And he, you know, he kinda balances those off, and we just try to... And you know, sometimes you can't fill something.

Tim Fulton 21:58Right.

Angela Perley 21:58Like, whether, you know... But most of the time you can. But, um-

Tim Fulton 22:02So for musicians who are sort of looking to take that step, they've done touring, they've booked it on their own, you see it as certainly worthwhile to have somebody sort of take that off of your plate?

Angela Perley 22:13Yeah, I definitely think so. But I, I do think that, I know a lot of bands are like, "Oh," like, you know, "It'd be nice to be on a booking agent," you know-

Tim Fulton 22:20Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 22:20... "a booking agency" and like, you know, "How'd you get your booking agent?" And I think the key is, you know, you kinda have to do everything yourself-

Tim Fulton 22:27Right

Angela Perley 22:27... for a long, for a while. A- and it makes you appreciate, and then you understand more of, like, how it works and-

Tim Fulton 22:32Well, and it's good to know-

Angela Perley 22:34Um

Tim Fulton 22:34... what that person's doing for you-

Angela Perley 22:35Right

Tim Fulton 22:36... so that, frankly so they're not screwing you.

Angela Perley 22:38Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:38You know?

Angela Perley 22:39Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:39'Cause I imagine it is one of those businesses that it's pretty easy to just say, "I'm a booking agent."

Angela Perley 22:45Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:45I imagine. And, you know, you do work for people, and then you're like, you know, you're not getting the rate of return, right? 'Cause they get paid based on sort of the success of their work, right? It's not just, like, a flat fee.

Angela Perley 22:57Right.

Tim Fulton 22:57Or is it?

Angela Perley 22:58Well, so I, if you're having your, I guess if you're-

Tim Fulton 23:01Here's where I go down the rabbit hole of-

Angela Perley 23:02Yeah

Tim Fulton 23:02... how does this business work?

Angela Perley 23:03I think it depends. I mean, if you're, like, with Atomic, like, our agent, he's on a salary, so necess- it doesn't really, the amount of gigs he books doesn't necessarily, like, up his, it's not, like, commission-based or whatever.

Tim Fulton 23:16Right.

Angela Perley 23:16But y- if you're just, like, a lone agent, then it is commission-based. So-

Tim Fulton 23:19Okay

Angela Perley 23:20... um-

Tim Fulton 23:20But you're not paying him a set fee.

Angela Perley 23:22Yeah.

Tim Fulton 23:22You're, the-

Angela Perley 23:23The-

Tim Fulton 23:23... Atomic Mu- Music Group

Angela Perley 23:25... the agent. Right.

Tim Fulton 23:25Right.

Angela Perley 23:26The agency, yeah. Yeah, it's a, it's just usually a certain, like, percentage of each gig, you know, goes to the booking agency.

Tim Fulton 23:32Gotcha.

Angela Perley 23:32It's been interesting experience, yeah. We've never, I mean, we were, I was always, like, emailing booking agencies, and no one was ever interested and-

Tim Fulton 23:40Okay

Angela Perley 23:40... but I think when then people kinda started to see that, oh, okay, this band, like, started to kinda come up in the newsfeed and they saw how hard we were working, then they're like, "Okay, we can put them on the road." 'Cause it, there's-

Tim Fulton 23:51Yeah, and I was gonna ask, like, what is that moment? Is it when you're drawing out of town and when you're garnering local press or garnering national press? What do you think that moment is, is when, I don't wanna say you weren't legitimate before, because you certainly had a producer and a backer and you were recording professionally. What was that moment that people outside your sphere started paying attention?

Angela Perley 24:12Right. Uh, yeah, maybe just kind of if you start kinda hitting people's newsfeed a little bit in different towns of, you know, you start to kinda get a little bit of a buzz in different places, word kinda gets around about bands. Um, but then also I think when people can see, like, oh wow, you know, they're- They're, like, not stopping. Like, they're pretty determined. They're hard workers.

Tim Fulton 24:34Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 24:35I think, like, nowadays that's kind of, like, what people are looking at because it is really hard. It's a hard business. Um, but to know that a band is, like, fully in, at least you have that, 'cause it seems like... I don't know. With bands it's... I think it's really tough, and it's tough to keep a band together, like, especially when you're traveling on the road. So if you see someone that's been... Like, we've been doing it since 2009-

Tim Fulton 24:59Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 24:59... then they're like, "Okay, I guess they're not going away" like maybe.

Tim Fulton 25:01Right. Let's take a quick break and take a listen to the track Athens off of Hey Kid from 2014.

Angela Perley and the Howlin' Moons (song performance) 25:16Run around in Ohio with familiar faces I used to know. Try and get high as the clouds. Midwest kids with Midwest charm. Jumping fences, breaking arms. Laughing like the good times will never stop. Lovers come and lovers go. I knew a few down the road, but they flicker in and out of my mind. Take the right, take the left. Take the path you love best, but I'm footing the pale life. Like a train, I don't know if I'm coming back this way. You think you know me well, but everything fades. Picking pumpkins, dancing bars. Feeling the sunlight on our arms. Reading poetry in bed. I tell you if you tell me. I got more secrets than a girl could keep. As good a memory as just a kiss in the dark. Like a train, I don't know if I'm coming back this way. You think you know me well, but everything fades. Like a train, I don't know if I'm coming back this way. You think you know me well, but everything fades. You think you know me well, but everything fades. Running around in Ohio. Athens County, I hope you know how you changed my soul and unchained my heart. You made me crazy. You made me sad. You're the best damn friend a girl could have with your ghost-lit hymns and untuned guitars. Like a train, I don't know if I'm coming back this way. You think you know me well, but everything fades. Like a train, I don't know if I'm coming back this way. You think you know me well, but everything fades. You think you know me well, but everything fades.

Tim Fulton 29:46Again, that was Athens off of Hey Kid from 2014, sitting down here with Angela Pearle from Angela Pearle and the Howlin' Moons. Angela, can you talk about sort of why you do this, why you're a, a songwriter and, and a performer?

Angela Perley 30:00Yeah. It's hard to explain, but, uh, it's a great, it's a great creative release for me, and I, I love performing live. It's a challenge. It's scary, but it's also kind of, like, freeing, um-

Tim Fulton 30:11And is it performing live or is it performing live and touring?

Angela Perley 30:15It, yeah-

Tim Fulton 30:15Like, is it all of that?

Angela Perley 30:16It's a part of the experience touring too. I love, um... I've always loved to travel, and it's a way... Although we're not, like... It's not like we're, like, tourists going... You know, we're, we don't really get to see that much. Um, but if anything, you know-

Tim Fulton 30:27Well, you get to have some dinner somewhere and-

Angela Perley 30:29Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like we definitely make it a part of, like, okay, you know, hitting up the local, like, the most, you know, local restaurant, coffee shops, that kinda thing. Um, and you feel like you're... Y- you just get, like, a feel for people-

Tim Fulton 30:44Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 30:44... in these cities and towns. Um, so it, it starts to feel, especially when you come back, like, we... we're always trying to come back to a place, you know, every three months.

Tim Fulton 30:52Okay.

Angela Perley 30:52You know, come back to the same city, kinda keep it, keep it going. Um, and I think the coolest thing is w- we're starting to... You know, everywhere we go, there... I don't think there's been a show in the past couple years where we've gone and, like, I don't know anyone in the audience. It's like you actually start to get to know people that keep coming to the shows-

Tim Fulton 31:11Right

Angela Perley 31:11... and, um-

Tim Fulton 31:12And even though you may be three states away, it's almost like-

Angela Perley 31:15Yeah, it's this big community

Tim Fulton 31:16... that bar in Columbus that you played.

Angela Perley 31:18Yeah.

Tim Fulton 31:19Right.

Angela Perley 31:20So it's this feeling of, um, home and community, uh, kind of wherever you go. Um, and it's just, um, just getting to connect with people and just knowing in any way that the music, if people care about it and it affects their lives and, you know, they're, they're listening to it, um, it's just really cool. It's just a kind of a crazy concept. And so that's what I, I just, I love about it. I can't get enough of it, so.

Tim Fulton 31:43And this may be sort of a too wide of a question, but how do you feel about where you're at right now? You guys have been doing this for six or seven years.

Angela Perley 31:52Yeah.

Tim Fulton 31:52And st- and you're... Thankfully you've maintained, you know, that relationship with Fred and with Vital. What's next, and how do you see yourself on the trajectory?

Angela Perley 32:02Yeah. Well, w- we're definitely feeling like things keep getting... Like, the mo- there's momentum.

Tim Fulton 32:07Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 32:07Things keep getting, keep getting better and better. Um, so that's a good sign.

Tim Fulton 32:11Yeah.

Angela Perley 32:12Um, 'cause that's one thing that I've always felt like, okay, if it gets to a point... 'Cause it's, it is really hard, and sometimes it's hard to tell what's going on or to objectively look at yourself and be like, "What are we-"

Tim Fulton 32:23And say, "Is this... Am I successful?"

Angela Perley 32:25Right.

Tim Fulton 32:25Like, right.

Angela Perley 32:26Right. It's, like, you know, the constant question. Um, so I, I think, um, when thing, good things keep happening and, you know, there's definitely kind of just... it seems like it just naturally keeps growing and evolving, then, then, you know, we don't question as much, and we're like, "Okay, well, we're still in this."

Tim Fulton 32:43Right.

Angela Perley 32:44"Let's, let's keep it going," and, um-

Tim Fulton 32:45And so are the things that you sort of hang your hat on or things that you see as milestones, are they, like, the, you know, the full-length albums or getting a booking agent-

Angela Perley 32:54Yeah

Tim Fulton 32:54... or being invited to... Well, it's not an of- and let's not get into what's the difference between an official- ... and unofficial showcase at South by Southwest.

Angela Perley 33:02Yeah.

Tim Fulton 33:03It is interesting, but kind of only if you have gone.

Angela Perley 33:06Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 33:07Are there other milestones that you look to and say, "Okay, we did that. We're okay for a little bit to keep this going"?

Angela Perley 33:13Yeah. I think, I think definitely, um, with the recording, it's, I think, just b- been getting really exciting. Um, I'm very proud of Homemade Vision.

Tim Fulton 33:24Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 33:24Um, so for us, basically, we're, we're kind of already... I have a lot of new songs, and we're putting a couple in the shows this year. But I don't wanna do too much of it 'cause I kind of liked how Homemade Vision turned out with, um-

Tim Fulton 33:37That process

Angela Perley 33:38... kind of... Yeah, kind of, like, springing it on the guys kinda last minute and then, like, you know-

Tim Fulton 33:41You mean the band?

Angela Perley 33:42Yeah.

Tim Fulton 33:43Okay. There you go, guys.

Angela Perley 33:44Like, in the studio, like, yeah, like, a we- I mean, you know, it wasn't... We weren't playing it out forever and ever. It's just, like, it was exciting. Like, when you first write a song, you have this energy there that-

Tim Fulton 33:55Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 33:55... is hard to get back to. Um, so-

Tim Fulton 33:57I was gonna ask earlier if once you've played this song out so many times and then you go into the studio, is it just like you're sort of going through the motions?

Angela Perley 34:05It's hard to say. A- a- and it, it just depends on the song. Um, and there's a lot of our songs where I feel like, yeah, we've played it so many times-

Tim Fulton 34:14Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 34:15... that we end up kind of, you know, we're going in double time now. We're like start, we start messing with it too much, you know?

Tim Fulton 34:19Well, you're playing.

Angela Perley 34:20Because you're playing it.

Tim Fulton 34:21Right, literally.

Angela Perley 34:21Yeah, and you're playing it live. But, um, for the studio, um, I don't know, it's just, like, I feel... Even when I, like, when I'm recording, like, little demos, and, and a lot of times that would happen where you'd listen to a demo or, like, "Gosh," like, "can we capture that, like, just what the demo had?"

Tim Fulton 34:36Right.

Angela Perley 34:37But that was, like, right when the song was made.

Tim Fulton 34:39Right.

Angela Perley 34:39It was, like, that magic of the first. So it kind of-

Tim Fulton 34:41But it's almost crisper, and, like, people aren't overly confident in what they're doing.

Angela Perley 34:45Yeah, it's like-

Tim Fulton 34:46Yeah

Angela Perley 34:46... pure. So getting to that, so that's what I kinda liked about the, the last record. So, so I don't wanna, like, start playing too many of the songs out live.

Tim Fulton 34:55Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 34:55Uh, but, but it is fun too. It's like we have been playing, like, the Hey Kid and Homemade Vision for, you know, a while now. And we play so many shows that it's like we're always itching to play new songs. So, um, that's our next step is to, to g- probably record in, like, November.

Tim Fulton 35:12Okay.

Angela Perley 35:12Like, kind of get a game plan together. We have a management team that kinda reached out to us now that's, um, really trying to kinda make some cool connections to, like, do something else for our next recording.

Tim Fulton 35:23Okay.

Angela Perley 35:24Um, but-

Tim Fulton 35:24So maybe record outside of Columbus?

Angela Perley 35:26Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 35:27Okay.

Angela Perley 35:27And actually, so our, um, our relationship with, with Vital- Um, it's, you know, they've basically, artist developed us the whole way.

Tim Fulton 35:37Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 35:37But our, our contract ended at the beginning of this year, so-

Tim Fulton 35:41Okay

Angela Perley 35:41... we're still lifelong partners in all of our-

Tim Fulton 35:42Great

Angela Perley 35:43... our music, but we're gonna try something different with this re- with our next record. And so, but yeah, that's still kinda up in the air, and we're still kinda gonna see what happens.

Tim Fulton 35:52Great. I sort of wanna wrap up with, you know, kind of the reason that you're here. Why do you choose to stay in Columbus?

Angela Perley 35:58Well, um, it's a really creative city. There's a lot of great musicians, studio. I mean, just, just the fact that, um, with Vital and Fred, you know, having, taking the chance on us and-

Tim Fulton 36:11Mm-hmm

Angela Perley 36:11... obviously, um, being there for our whole development as a band, um, is pretty cool. I don't think you could would get that, um, in any other, like, big, you know, city. Like, this is, this is a community that cares, and we have a lot of support here. Um, it's affordable to live in Columbus.

Tim Fulton 36:30Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 36:30And we love touring out of Columbus. Like, it's pretty easy. Like, we do, we play-

Tim Fulton 36:35It's central.

Angela Perley 36:35Yeah, we-

Tim Fulton 36:36Yeah

Angela Perley 36:36... we play, um, pretty much anywhere within, like, a nine-hour radius, like, pretty regularly of Ohio, and that's a l- lot of places.

Tim Fulton 36:44Mm-hmm.

Angela Perley 36:44You know, you could go to Chicago, New York, Nashville. All these, all these places are pretty close to us, so. The only thing that's, like, super far away is, like, LA, California. Like, that's-

Tim Fulton 36:54Right

Angela Perley 36:54... that's, we don't hit that up really.

Tim Fulton 36:56That's-

Angela Perley 36:56We've never been there, but

Tim Fulton 36:57... far for a lot of people though.

Angela Perley 36:58Yeah, yeah, yeah. But East Coast, South, you know, North, West, pretty far you can, you know. It's just a great, um, place to live, and it just keeps getting better. And, like, the, the music scene here, the art scene is just really cool, and it, it's, it's, it's homey. Everyone knows each other. Everyone's really supportive of each other. And I don't know, yeah, I just don't think you, you are getting that in some of these bigger cities, um, where things are kind of, like, cutthroat, and people aren't really, you know, that supportive of each other, so.

Tim Fulton 37:31Great. Angela, thank you so much for your time.

Angela Perley 37:33Thank you.

Tim Fulton 37:34Uh, we're gonna go out today on Electric Flame, what you called, uh, the focus track of- Is it from one of the EPs?

Angela Perley 37:42Yeah. Oh, so this is from Homemade Vision as well.

Tim Fulton 37:44Oh, excuse me.

Angela Perley 37:45So-

Tim Fulton 37:45Everything's from Homemade Vision-

Angela Perley 37:46This is a-

Tim Fulton 37:46... except for Athens.

Angela Perley 37:48Yeah.

Tim Fulton 37:48So this is Electric Flame, one of the tracks off of Homemade Vision. Again, Angela, thank you so much.

Angela Perley 37:53Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Angela Perley and the Howlin' Moons (song performance) 38:10She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. From the mountains of California to the streets of LA. Smoky bars and blue guitars, dancing in the rain. She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. Since she was a young child, sweet 17. Psyched as young Dion flies, All-American queen. She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. Ooh, she burns, she burns. Ooh, she burns, she burns, she burns. She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. She's got the way to move. She's got electric flame. Suntan and beach blonde hair, West Coast delight. Palm tree hips and je- She's got electric frying. She's got the ways to rule you. She's got electric frying.

Tim Fulton 42:27Thank you for listening to The Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite musician. If you're interested in sponsoring The Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info at theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.