Muralist Adam Hernandez

Tim Fulton 0:12Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week I sat down with artist and muralist Adam Hernandez to talk about his work, making time for your passion, the importance of mentors, being a real person while conducting business, the virtue of Columbus, and then we wrap things up by arguing about what the Short North needs. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up to the minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with muralist and painter Adam Hernandez. Adam, how are you?

Adam Hernandez 1:39I'm good. How are you?

Tim Fulton 1:40I'm great. Thanks for sitting down. So tell us about your work. What's the-

Adam Hernandez 1:44Mm

Tim Fulton 1:44... what's the elevator pitch?

Adam Hernandez 1:46Um, well, before I get into that, I wanna ask a question.

Tim Fulton 1:49Okay.

Adam Hernandez 1:49Your theme music for the podcast- ... is super awesome.

Tim Fulton 1:52Thank you.

Adam Hernandez 1:53Um, where is that from?

Tim Fulton 1:54Uh, so it was commissioned actually. It's funny 'cause I just released an episode, uh, sort of about-

Adam Hernandez 2:01Mm

Tim Fulton 2:01... the Confluence Cast.

Adam Hernandez 2:02Okay.

Tim Fulton 2:02And we actually go into why, where, what is the theme music, and where did it come from.

Adam Hernandez 2:07Okay.

Tim Fulton 2:07It's a friend of mine, and I commissioned it, and I literally said to him, "Can you, uh, uh, d- I really like the Night Court theme song."

Adam Hernandez 2:16Okay.

Tim Fulton 2:17"And I really like the, uh, second iteration of Law & Order."

Adam Hernandez 2:21Okay.

Tim Fulton 2:21"So can you combine that and make it fun?"

Adam Hernandez 2:24Nice.

Tim Fulton 2:25Uh, so yeah.

Adam Hernandez 2:26Nailed it. It's perfect.

Tim Fulton 2:27He-

Adam Hernandez 2:27It's sweet.

Tim Fulton 2:28Benji's awesome.

Adam Hernandez 2:29Nice.

Tim Fulton 2:29So Benji gets in the show notes again this week.

Adam Hernandez 2:31Sweet. Okay.

Tim Fulton 2:31So.

Adam Hernandez 2:32Sorry. Uh, to a-

Tim Fulton 2:33No, it's all right. Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 2:34Uh, to answer your question, um, I kinda take influence from a lot of different places, um, graffiti being one of them, and then I would say ancient mythology/ancient hieroglyphics-

Tim Fulton 2:46Okay

Adam Hernandez 2:46... being the other. Um, I know those are two, like, for most people, a lot of people would be, like, opposite ends of the spectrum. For me, they're kind of very similar in that they're people who are leaving a mark on a wall that you've encountered.

Tim Fulton 2:58Yeah, from an art history perspective, they are the same.

Adam Hernandez 3:01Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:01Right. They're people communicating something on a, in a public space.

Adam Hernandez 3:05Mm.

Tim Fulton 3:06Right.

Adam Hernandez 3:07So yeah, so for me it was kinda like how can I blend these two things and make my own style out of it, and that's how I would describe my artwork.

Tim Fulton 3:13Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 3:13Modern hieroglyphics, I guess.

Tim Fulton 3:15Okay. A lot of animals represented in your work, a lot of geometric shapes.

Adam Hernandez 3:19Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 3:19Um, and sort of, uh, you know, mirroring two sides of things.

Adam Hernandez 3:24Mm.

Tim Fulton 3:24In addition to the, you grew up in Brooklyn, is that right?

Adam Hernandez 3:27The Bronx. The Bronx.

Tim Fulton 3:28In the Bronx.

Adam Hernandez 3:28Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton 3:28Excuse me.

Adam Hernandez 3:29It's okay.

Tim Fulton 3:29I, I can't mess up my boroughs today.

Adam Hernandez 3:31I try, I try not to get, like, salty about it, 'cause there's so many people, like, they think Brooklyn the first time around. But it's like, "It's cool, it's cool. It's the Bronx, a cool borough," but.

Tim Fulton 3:38Right. Uh, the, uh, the yet to be cool.

Adam Hernandez 3:42Yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:42Not, yet, yeah. I'm not gonna-

Adam Hernandez 3:44People just don't know about how cool it is yet, you know.

Tim Fulton 3:46I like the Bronx a lot.

Adam Hernandez 3:47Mm.

Tim Fulton 3:47I've s- I've spent more time in, frankly, if I had to choose a borough, it would be Queens.

Adam Hernandez 3:52Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 3:52But like, you know, that's just, you know.

Adam Hernandez 3:55I went to high school in Queens, actually, so.

Tim Fulton 3:57Okay.

Adam Hernandez 3:57Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton 3:57So there you go.

Adam Hernandez 3:58Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton 3:58So you did some growing up there.

Adam Hernandez 4:00Yeah.

Tim Fulton 4:00Yeah. Astoria's awesome.

Adam Hernandez 4:01Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 4:01Grew up in an artistically inclined family.

Adam Hernandez 4:04Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 4:05Right? Um, talk about sort of how you got started in art. Is it something where you were drawing and sketching as a kid, or, you know, talk through that.

Adam Hernandez 4:14Yeah, totally. Oh, I mean, I don't remember the first time I, like, had crayons and-

Tim Fulton 4:19Okay

Adam Hernandez 4:19... drew some. My mom jokes that when I was little she would always try to get me to color in the lines in coloring books, but I would always, like, go outside the lines and, like, draw my own little characters and doodles-

Tim Fulton 4:28Okay

Adam Hernandez 4:28... in the coloring books, which I think is kinda funny to think about.

Tim Fulton 4:31D- yeah.

Adam Hernandez 4:31Um, b- one, one of my, like, earliest, like, I guess definitive memories of, like, art in my life was my grandpa was an oil painter.

Tim Fulton 4:39Okay.

Adam Hernandez 4:39Like a, like badass, like proper realism type stuff. And, uh, I remember being like, having a Spider-Man coloring book and not being able to, like, get the color of bricks right, and he took, he t- took like, I don't remember what two, I don't even remember what two colors, but he taught me how to blend colors with crayons.

Tim Fulton 4:55Oh, wow.

Adam Hernandez 4:55And that like blew my mind. And like ever since then I just, like, was able to see, like, artistic tools, like, as more, like they can be used for so many more different things, and I was probably like, I don't know, six or seven years old.

Tim Fulton 5:07Right.

Adam Hernandez 5:07But it really was a formative thing of, like, being, like the tools that you have, how can you use them to create something more than what it just, like, is.

Tim Fulton 5:14Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 5:15I don't, yeah, I don't know. Does that make sense? Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton 5:16No, absolutely. That, absolutely that makes sense.

Adam Hernandez 5:19Mm.

Tim Fulton 5:19So you're primarily known, or you put yourself out primarily as a muralist.

Adam Hernandez 5:23Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 5:23You do other work as well.

Adam Hernandez 5:26Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 5:26Right? Like, basically designs. You have some apparel on your website I saw.

Adam Hernandez 5:30Yep. Mm.

Tim Fulton 5:30You're, at the time of this airing you just launched a new set of t-

Adam Hernandez 5:35Mm

Tim Fulton 5:35... it's basically T-shirts.

Adam Hernandez 5:37T-shirts. I'm actually, this is the first year I'm doing sweatshirts and-

Tim Fulton 5:39Okay

Adam Hernandez 5:40... clothes for kids, toddlers, and babies, so, you know.

Tim Fulton 5:42All right.

Adam Hernandez 5:42You can get all the little ones some cool God Mask shirts for the holidays.

Tim Fulton 5:46Good. And I'm sorry, you call them God Mask?

Adam Hernandez 5:47Yes. God Masks.

Tim Fulton 5:49God Masks.

Adam Hernandez 5:49Yes.

Tim Fulton 5:50Talk about that.

Adam Hernandez 5:51Um, they're inspired by, like, the masks that maybe, like, a shaman in a sort of, like, ritualistic, uh, practice or something would be wearing.

Tim Fulton 5:59Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 5:59Uh, to me they kind of are like if you're channeling the power, we've mentioned how I use animals a lot in my, so it's like-

Tim Fulton 6:05Yeah

Adam Hernandez 6:05... to me, like, I haven't always been a very self- ... confident or outgoing person. It's something that I've had to teach myself to do as I've gotten older. So it makes me kind of uncomfortable. I don't like talking about myself. So this is, like, kind of a big deal. I'm doing a podcast right now.

Tim Fulton 6:17You're doing just fine.

Adam Hernandez 6:18But, um, uh, no, but seriously though, um, yeah, so anyway, the, yeah, the god masks, they were like, uh, when you, the characters put them on, it's kind of like they are channeling the... So, like, it's usually, like, some sort of, like, predator animal, like a wolf or a lion-

Tim Fulton 6:33Mm-hmm

Adam Hernandez 6:34... a cougar, a panther. These, like, really fierce, powerful creatures. These ordinary, regular people put them on, and they're able to, like, harness that, and it's kind of like this empowering thing.

Tim Fulton 6:43Okay.

Adam Hernandez 6:44So, like, when you rock it on the shirt, it's kind of like, hey, I can be a badass, too. That's kinda how I look at it.

Tim Fulton 6:49But you are, what's represented on the apparel is just the mask.

Adam Hernandez 6:53Yes.

Tim Fulton 6:53It's not like, um, there aren't, like, legs popping out underneath it.

Adam Hernandez 6:57No, no, no.

Tim Fulton 6:57Got it.

Adam Hernandez 6:58Just, like, the mask, yeah.

Tim Fulton 6:59Cool. Very cool.

Adam Hernandez 6:59'Cause you know you can't really put on a four-eyed tiger mask and go to work, but you can put on a four-eyed tiger T-shirt and go to work, so.

Tim Fulton 7:06Right.

Adam Hernandez 7:06Yeah, it's the modern version of a shaman's mask, I guess.

Tim Fulton 7:09Talk to me a little bit about how you work. Let's talk about, like, this apparel project-

Adam Hernandez 7:15Okay

Tim Fulton 7:15... first of all.

Adam Hernandez 7:16Mm.

Tim Fulton 7:16Is it something where you say, "I really wanna do this," and so you're like, "Okay, I'm gonna come up with 12 designs, use eight of them-

Adam Hernandez 7:24Mm

Tim Fulton 7:25... and put them into production."

Adam Hernandez 7:26Mm.

Tim Fulton 7:26Uh, give yourself a timeline. How does that-

Adam Hernandez 7:29Um, it al- it honestly varies. This year, I've, this is probably the third or fourth year that I've done something like this.

Tim Fulton 7:35Okay.

Adam Hernandez 7:36So I also try to plan out a little further in advance. Um, uh, but yeah, it's pretty much, like, I just drew a design. It's like, what are some new things that I can try this year?

Tim Fulton 7:45Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 7:45Different color palettes. Um, what color is this sh- the actual graphic gonna be on? So, like, if it's gonna be on a gray shirt, what colors am I gonna use? If it's gonna be a black shirt, can it be interchangeable? That's also a different feature. So yeah, so it's pretty much it starts out with me just with my sketch pad drawing a bunch of designs. Then I put them in Photoshop, clean them up, color them, and just see what works, what doesn't work. This year, I probably came up with, like, eight designs, and I think I'm only using four of them.

Tim Fulton 8:09Okay.

Adam Hernandez 8:10Um, but the other four might be turned into paintings or for other concepts or other projects like that. I try not to throw things away.

Tim Fulton 8:16Okay.

Adam Hernandez 8:17Yeah.

Tim Fulton 8:17May become a mural in the future.

Adam Hernandez 8:18Yeah.

Tim Fulton 8:19So what, so then are you getting the T-shirts and stuff all produced yourself, and, you know, your brand-new wife is gonna be pissed off that your basement- ... is full of, full of boxes of T-shirts?

Adam Hernandez 8:31Well, it's funny you ask that, 'cause last year, uh, the launch I did wasn't as big as other years that I've done it. So I s- have, like, 30 or 40 Wolf God Mask T-shirts in inventory.

Tim Fulton 8:40Okay.

Adam Hernandez 8:40So if you are looking for a Wolf God Mask, uh, they're at a discounted price on my website. Um, uh-

Tim Fulton 8:45Gotcha.

Adam Hernandez 8:45But, um, so in years past, I had a, a local guy here, um, Rob Fulton. He's Misterioso Rock Art. He's done the really cool Believe in Local Music tees. I don't know if you've seen-

Tim Fulton 8:57Yeah

Adam Hernandez 8:57... those. Um-

Tim Fulton 8:58By the way, no relation.

Adam Hernandez 8:59Oh, yeah.

Tim Fulton 9:00Just saying.

Adam Hernandez 9:01Yeah. Uh, he, we were next-door neighbors when I first moved to Columb- or after a couple years of me living here in Columbus.

Tim Fulton 9:08Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 9:08And we met, hit it off. He was an artist also. We were both into, like, cool, weird mythology stuff, and, like, really hit it off. And he started his screen printing business. I started, like, kinda getting off the ground as a visual artist, and I was like, "I wanna make T-shirts." He's like, "Hey, let me print them for you."

Tim Fulton 9:22Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 9:22Um, so yeah, he was really badass. He screen printed them. This year is a little different. I'm doing it, doing direct-to-garment printing, which is a little different than screen printing, and I'm doing it through an online service.

Tim Fulton 9:32Okay.

Adam Hernandez 9:33So in that way, I can offer a lot more options, give people, they can, like, kind of more customize it if they want it on a black shirt, gray shirt, red shirt, pink shirt, whatever.

Tim Fulton 9:39So it's basically printed after they order it.

Adam Hernandez 9:41Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 9:42And also you ki- you know, good thing, you don't have to deal with fulfillment.

Adam Hernandez 9:46Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton 9:47Bad thing, I imagine you're, you know, not getting as much of a cut as, as you would-

Adam Hernandez 9:51Yeah, so I mean, it's a tit for tat sort of thing.

Tim Fulton 9:53Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 9:53Um, I have to, like, especially having a full-time job and being an artist, my time is very valuable to me.

Tim Fulton 9:59Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 9:59So just, uh, I mean, even though I'm not, maybe not making as big of a profit margin in some aspects, the time of going to the store, picking up the shirts, p- packaging them-

Tim Fulton 10:09Yeah

Adam Hernandez 10:09... labeling, all that kind of stuff, that's just like, I could be doing something more-

Tim Fulton 10:11Figuring out what to charge for postage.

Adam Hernandez 10:13Yeah.

Tim Fulton 10:13Right.

Adam Hernandez 10:13Exactly, so it's like a tit for tat, and it's a lot easier doing it this way for me, so.

Tim Fulton 10:19Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 10:19Yeah.

Tim Fulton 10:20And we've talked to other artists in the past-

Adam Hernandez 10:22Mm

Tim Fulton 10:22... who are dealing with the same thing, sort of this work/life/art balance.

Adam Hernandez 10:27Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 10:27Do you have to block out time to do your art, or is it sort of just whenever you get time? Are you, you know, every week are you like, "All right. I'm taking time," and on every Tuesday night you're gonna go and draw? How do you, how do you do that? Do you have to block out time?

Adam Hernandez 10:45Honestly, like, it's kind of I work when I can. I j-

Tim Fulton 10:48Okay

Adam Hernandez 10:48... like, I'm lucky that I've found something that, like, a lot of people have passions that they c- can't, that they don't have time for 'cause of whatever work. But, like, for me, the fact that I've gotten such a good response from my art and that people are willing to pay me to do it-

Tim Fulton 11:00Yeah

Adam Hernandez 11:00... so it's just, like, and I, like, legitimately, like, love doing it, so it's, like, pretty much, like, all my free time is that. Not all my free time, obviously, but, um, I don't have, like, a specific schedule from 9:00 to 10:00 on Wednesdays I do it. It's like, "Oh, th- we don't have a shoot at work, so I'm gonna, like, run home and, like, work on this painting commission that I have to work on." Or, like-

Tim Fulton 11:19Right

Adam Hernandez 11:20... on a Fri- I'm kind of a night owl, so when I get home from work, like, me and Molly will hang out, watch TV or whatever, and then when she goes to bed, I'm usually up till, like, 2:00, 3:00 in the morning working on something.

Tim Fulton 11:28Gotcha.

Adam Hernandez 11:28It's kind of my style.

Tim Fulton 11:29And what is your day job?

Adam Hernandez 11:31I am a videographer at Penguin Magic, P3 Studios here in Columbus.

Tim Fulton 11:36Which we referenced with the, the Eric Tate interview.

Adam Hernandez 11:39Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 11:39How did you get involved with... I mean, it seems a little, uh, disparate.

Adam Hernandez 11:45Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton 11:45Uh, you know, doing, there's an art aspect to it-

Adam Hernandez 11:49Mm

Tim Fulton 11:49... but you don't really have a background in magic, right?

Adam Hernandez 11:51Well, it's funny you say that. My dad actually growing up, he w- big inspiration for me, because he always had a 9:00 to 5:00 job, but something that was passionate for him was entertaining children.

Tim Fulton 12:00Okay.

Adam Hernandez 12:00So he found in his spare time he was a magic clown, and that's how he made extra money for our family.

Tim Fulton 12:05Oh, wow.

Adam Hernandez 12:05And, uh, so yeah, I definitely actually do come from a background in that. It's one of the artistic backgrounds of my childhood is my dad was an entertainer.

Tim Fulton 12:12Okay.

Adam Hernandez 12:13And he just had that, like, hustler mentality just, like, when he had spare time it was like, "How could I be providing more for my family?" So, like, to me that's kinda like- Even though it's like fun and I am passionate about art, it's like how is a way to make money off of this as well. Um, anyway, yeah, so my, uh, one of my first friends when I moved here to Columbus, his, uh, his sister owns, uh, Penguin Magic.

Tim Fulton 12:33Okay.

Adam Hernandez 12:33Or she's like one of the like, uh, operating managers of the company. And anyway, it was like before they were like as big as they are now, but they needed help building magic gimmicks, like doing something with like playing cards and manipulating them for a trick.

Tim Fulton 12:46Right.

Adam Hernandez 12:46They were like really backed up and they asked me if I could help out. So I went over there, drank some beers with them, got in cool with them. And, um, as the years have progressed since then, I've taken on more and more responsibility from them.

Tim Fulton 12:57Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 12:57And it got to a point where they were just like, "Do you wanna come on full-time as a videographer?" So now, yeah, like I sh- do a bunch of our video shoots.

Tim Fulton 13:04That's great.

Adam Hernandez 13:05There's some shoots every now and then where I'm like the tech director, which is kinda cool. I don't even know if it's the proper title, but I like to say it 'cause it makes me sound cool. But I'm the guy who tells every- make sure all the cameras are running and make sure everybody's in their place.

Tim Fulton 13:15And you've got all the equipment you need and-

Adam Hernandez 13:16Yeah, yeah

Tim Fulton 13:16... right. Cool.

Adam Hernandez 13:18Um-

Tim Fulton 13:18And then you're doing some editing as well.

Adam Hernandez 13:19Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 13:19But did you do that before or-

Adam Hernandez 13:21No, I didn't. I kinda learned on the job, so.

Tim Fulton 13:23That's awesome.

Adam Hernandez 13:24Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 13:24That's awesome.

Adam Hernandez 13:25Yeah.

Tim Fulton 13:25So how did you get from the Bronx to Columbus?

Adam Hernandez 13:30Um, I f- came out here for the weather. I just love how- ... inconsistent it is.

Tim Fulton 13:34Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 13:34Just kidding. I followed my ex out here.

Tim Fulton 13:36Okay. That happens.

Adam Hernandez 13:38Yeah.

Tim Fulton 13:38That happens.

Adam Hernandez 13:40Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton 13:40Uh, do you have any formal schooling in art?

Adam Hernandez 13:43School of hard knocks. Sorry, I'm trying to be funny. No, um- ... literally just a lot of time alone and practicing-

Tim Fulton 13:49Okay

Adam Hernandez 13:49... over and over. Um, and, and also just like picking the brains of more established artists.

Tim Fulton 13:54Okay.

Adam Hernandez 13:54Columbus has been really awesome in that way, that people are like really open here and willing to like get coffee with you. So like from the like actual like technical standpoint of like making artwork, I've been able to like just hit up people and be like, "Hey, I'm trying to do this thing. I don't know how to do it."

Tim Fulton 14:09Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 14:09They'll help me like, with some murals, like were really big. I didn't know how to paint big murals at first, so I like asked, "Who are some big muralists in Columbus?"

Tim Fulton 14:15Right.

Adam Hernandez 14:15I was like, "Hey, can I get coffee with you? I'm trying to do this thing. How do you do it?"

Tim Fulton 14:18Right.

Adam Hernandez 14:18And there's been, people have been really awesome and have helped me out. A lot of times you just gotta k- kinda gotta figure it out yourself. Uh, and then also from the business side of it, not going to art school, I've also just like hit people up and been like, "Hey, like I know I'm gonna, I've made some money off of art this year. How do I pay my taxes on that?" And-

Tim Fulton 14:33Yeah

Adam Hernandez 14:34... you know, stuff like that. And it's been really, I just, I love that sense of community that this city has, that people are just willing to kinda pass on information to help each other out.

Tim Fulton 14:42Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 14:43And now that I've been in the game for a little while, it's been cool too, 'cause I've been able to help some other people. And people will ask me like, "How do you do it?" I'm like, "Dude, honestly, I don't know. I just kinda figure it out."

Tim Fulton 14:51Right.

Adam Hernandez 14:51But I think it's important too, just like you can, uh, you can like sit back and just like think of all the things that'll be hard about it or difficult or how it won't work out, but like honestly, the, things usually do. You're gonna have some fumbles or hit some roadblocks on the way, but-

Tim Fulton 15:06Right

Adam Hernandez 15:06... just, you gotta, you gotta take the chance and take the leap.

Tim Fulton 15:10Yeah. And I imagine, so a lot of visual artists, they're not, you know, they're not collecting a 1099 when they-

Adam Hernandez 15:17Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 15:17... uh, sell a piece-

Adam Hernandez 15:18Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 15:18... of work. But for you, when you get a commission for a mural, for example-

Adam Hernandez 15:23Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 15:23... you're, they're gonna 1099 you.

Adam Hernandez 15:26Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 15:26'Cause it's a corporation.

Adam Hernandez 15:27Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 15:27And they, you know-

Adam Hernandez 15:28Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 15:28... they have a-

Adam Hernandez 15:28Well, not all the time. Some pe- that's, that's another funny thing, is like I, when I was started getting big commissions like that, I assumed that that might be the case.

Tim Fulton 15:35Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 15:35But people like, some people-

Tim Fulton 15:37Some are fine with it. They'll just-

Adam Hernandez 15:38Yeah, and some people just also don't e- like some, a lot of business, new businesses, they've never commissioned an artist before, so they don't know how it goes either. Like-

Tim Fulton 15:44Okay

Adam Hernandez 15:45... I'll be intimidated sometimes approaching people in these meetings and being like, "Oh, how do you..." Like wondering like, how am I gonna ask them for the money? Like financial, being so awkward about it. And it's like they don't know either. So just-

Tim Fulton 15:55Hmm

Adam Hernandez 15:55... kinda like-

Tim Fulton 15:55Gotcha

Adam Hernandez 15:56... a fake it till you make it, or just be confident, or just be honest.

Tim Fulton 15:58So you're not in there saying, "Well, what is your procurement process?"

Adam Hernandez 16:01Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 16:01Or-

Adam Hernandez 16:01No, just being real, just being a real person. I think people connect with that.

Tim Fulton 16:05Good.

Adam Hernandez 16:05Maybe not in all settings, but here in Columbus I think people appreciate a, a genuine attitude.

Tim Fulton 16:10Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 16:11Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton 16:11Absolutely. And so how do you tr- like let's say I came to you, I'm a small or medium sized business.

Adam Hernandez 16:16Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:16I've got a big wall.

Adam Hernandez 16:17Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:18And I'm, I say I wanna, "Hey, I wanna commission a piece."

Adam Hernandez 16:21Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:21You charge per like square foot, right?

Adam Hernandez 16:23Yeah.

Tim Fulton 16:24Okay.

Adam Hernandez 16:24Um-

Tim Fulton 16:24And then do you, do you walk through an iterative design process?

Adam Hernandez 16:28Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:29How much are you willing to let... Here's, here's where sort of the commercial and the, um, artistic license-

Adam Hernandez 16:37Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 16:37... part of it comes into it.

Adam Hernandez 16:39Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:39If I said to you, "Hey, I want a mural and I want you to do your type of art, but I want cows."

Adam Hernandez 16:46Yeah.

Tim Fulton 16:47Would you say like, "Yeah, I can do that. That's fine."

Adam Hernandez 16:49Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:49"But you gotta realize it's still gonna be my kinda thing."

Adam Hernandez 16:52Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:52And you, I assume, give the client the ability to ask for revisions before-

Adam Hernandez 16:57Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 16:57... you start putting stuff up.

Adam Hernandez 16:58Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 16:58How does that work?

Adam Hernandez 16:59So, I mean, again, something that I learned as I've been doing it.

Tim Fulton 17:03Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 17:03Because, um, so like now I've kinda have a formula. I mean, I'm still open to changing it or finding things that work better, but right now the kinda, uh, process for me is somebody approaches me, I just kinda get to know them, like get to know their vibe, what they're looking for.

Tim Fulton 17:17Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 17:18I mean, I've got to a point of, like if you go to my website, you can tell I have a pretty distinctive style.

Tim Fulton 17:22Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 17:22So if somebody wants like a realistic looking cow, for example- ... like I'm not your guy. And like I'm clear with that, and I just like tell them, it's like, "Look, like I can do a cow. It's gonna look in my style, whatever." Um-

Tim Fulton 17:32Right.

Adam Hernandez 17:33But yeah, so pretty much like if we, we'll get into talks, and like if you're interested, I ask for a deposit, which is something that I've been burned by in the past. People will ask for all these designs, revisions and stuff. Then when it comes down to it, they'll like back out, and it's like I did all this work. Again-

Tim Fulton 17:45Right

Adam Hernandez 17:45... going back to time being valuable. So like just asking for a deposit, one, I think it makes you look really professional. It lets them know that you're serious, and it also makes you know that they're serious too.

Tim Fulton 17:54Right.

Adam Hernandez 17:55'Cause it's like we're not wasting each other's time. Like let's make something happen. And it's us- and also that deposit goes towards the final cost of-

Tim Fulton 18:01Right

Adam Hernandez 18:01... the finished product. So yeah, and I us- and I'm also specific about like I'll give you a concept sketch, or I'll give you a couple. And they're like usually really rough, like pencil drawings.

Tim Fulton 18:09Right.

Adam Hernandez 18:09Pick one that you like. I'll do like a couple revisions on it. And it's usually like I'll tell them, it's like, "I'll give you up to three revisions. After that I'll charge X amount of dollars per revision."

Tim Fulton 18:18Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 18:18It just also helps both parties get to the point and like let's make this happen.

Tim Fulton 18:23Right.

Adam Hernandez 18:23We don't wanna be sitting down-

Tim Fulton 18:24Well, and so that they're not- You know, muddling around a whole lot-

Adam Hernandez 18:28Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 18:28... and saying, "Well, I really li- I got you to this point."

Adam Hernandez 18:31Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 18:31And then they had to show it to a decision-maker.

Adam Hernandez 18:33Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 18:33And the decision-maker was like, "Well, I thought we wanted chickens."

Adam Hernandez 18:37Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 18:37And so yeah, you're gonna end up charging more for that.

Adam Hernandez 18:40Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton 18:41But also, I imagine if you're in a situation where there's additional decision-makers, they hopefully have a little bit more of a budget-

Adam Hernandez 18:47Yeah, yeah

Tim Fulton 18:47... to work with.

Adam Hernandez 18:48Yeah, yeah. And I mean, also, and most people, and I just try to be sp- that's why, like, I like to just g- get to know people first because that helps me. It's like we don't have to go through all those things.

Tim Fulton 18:57Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 18:57It's like if they tell me what they're looking for, and again, like, I have a pretty distinctive style, so they kind of are gonna know what m- my version of a cow's gonna look like or whatever.

Tim Fulton 19:07Right.

Adam Hernandez 19:07So it, it, it's for the most part usually kind of first sketch I send them, it works, and then we get to work.

Tim Fulton 19:14What about the community or collaborative works that you've worked on in the past?

Adam Hernandez 19:19Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 19:19I know that you- I've seen work of yours that is obviously not all yours.

Adam Hernandez 19:23Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 19:23It's like your piece is supplanted on more of an abstract piece, um, or abstract words.

Adam Hernandez 19:30Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 19:30Is that a donation of your time? Is that, um, just, "Hey, I wanted to work with this person"?

Adam Hernandez 19:36Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 19:36How does that, how has that worked for you in the past?

Adam Hernandez 19:38Okay. I think when you're referring to those gr- like the graffiti abstract stuff-

Tim Fulton 19:42Mm-hmm

Adam Hernandez 19:42... though that's actually also me as well.

Tim Fulton 19:45Oh, okay.

Adam Hernandez 19:45And that's, and, and I can, I'll answer your question, and I can go into that 'cause that's kind of what I was talking about with the, like, ancient mythology and graffiti tying in.

Tim Fulton 19:52Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 19:52That's my way of doing it. We can get into that. But, like, for example, um, uh, like so Stephanie Ront, who's been a guest-

Tim Fulton 20:00Yeah

Adam Hernandez 20:00... on the show a couple times-

Tim Fulton 20:02I think my only two-time guest.

Adam Hernandez 20:04Oh, nice.

Tim Fulton 20:04Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 20:04So, uh, Stephanie's super awesome. Um, we, uh, we did a, was that earlier this year or last year? But we did bl- a restaurant called Blunch in Clintonville together.

Tim Fulton 20:14Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 20:14And that one worked out where she got approached by the business owner, and they asked her to do the artwork for it. She was in a really busy time, so she wanted to have, or have somebody to work on it with. She hit me up.

Tim Fulton 20:24Okay.

Adam Hernandez 20:24And our styles are, like, pretty aesthetically different, so we just met up and, uh, sat down, did some sketches, mock-ups, and, like, found ways. Like, she has a distinctive, like, characters and elements that she incorporates a- as do I.

Tim Fulton 20:38Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 20:39So we were like, "So, like, what if we did one of your characters on my background and-

Tim Fulton 20:42Mm-hmm

Adam Hernandez 20:42... one of mine on yours, vice versa?" And we showed it to the business owner, and they loved it, and we made it work, so yeah.

Tim Fulton 20:48That's basically a split commission, then.

Adam Hernandez 20:49Yeah, basically.

Tim Fulton 20:50That's how that works.

Adam Hernandez 20:50Yeah.

Tim Fulton 20:51Cool.

Adam Hernandez 20:51And then in other situations with, like, collaborations, I mean, it's honestly, it goes back to Columbus, like people trying to help build each other up.

Tim Fulton 20:57Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 20:57Like, uh, I don't know, like-

Tim Fulton 21:00Like, have you done Urban Scrawl?

Adam Hernandez 21:02I have done Urban Scrawl.

Tim Fulton 21:02Okay.

Adam Hernandez 21:03A couple times. The last, I didn't do it this last year 'cause I was actually in Pittsburgh painting in a similar street festival-

Tim Fulton 21:10Okay

Adam Hernandez 21:10... which was a collaborative thing, which Adam Roulet of Block Fort-

Tim Fulton 21:14Yeah

Adam Hernandez 21:14... he hit me up about. He was bringing a team of people from Columbus to paint out there. And, uh, it was like that s- like similar thing. It was just, like, s- an artist had an opportunity. They hit some people up in their circle, and we're like, "Hey, let's work on this together." We met up, kinda came up with a concept, and made it happen.

Tim Fulton 21:29That's great.

Adam Hernandez 21:29Yeah, it's a lot of fun. And I think it's, like, really sweet too 'cause it kinda pushes you when you work with somebody who you've never worked before or who doesn't have the same, uh, style or process of doing it. So you have to kinda think outside the box and maybe be in a little bit of an uncomfortable situation.

Tim Fulton 21:44Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 21:44But I think in those kind of things though it kind of makes you realize, like, "Wow, I'm capable of doing that." It's a little empowering, you know?

Tim Fulton 21:50Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 21:50Mm.

Tim Fulton 21:51And so for work like that where, like at the Pittsburgh festival you were talking about-

Adam Hernandez 21:56Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 21:56... or even Urban Scrawl-

Adam Hernandez 21:57Mm

Tim Fulton 21:57... are you planning that stuff out ahead of time?

Adam Hernandez 21:59Mm.

Tim Fulton 22:00Like, you, you're coming with a sketch, and you're, um, it's not just like, "Oh, I don't know. I literally don't know what I'm gonna paint today."

Adam Hernandez 22:08Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 22:08Like, you do have a plan, right?

Adam Hernandez 22:10Um, yeah. Uh, for the first years that I painted outside-

Tim Fulton 22:13'Cause I, like, Adam for example I know is super, super planful-

Adam Hernandez 22:17Mm

Tim Fulton 22:17... about his work.

Adam Hernandez 22:18Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 22:18Like, he knows exactly what-

Adam Hernandez 22:20Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 22:20... is gonna go up on a thing.

Adam Hernandez 22:22Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 22:22And when, for live painting, he's literally letting people watch his process-

Adam Hernandez 22:27Mm

Tim Fulton 22:27... more than his inspiration-

Adam Hernandez 22:31Yeah, yeah, yeah

Tim Fulton 22:31... if you will.

Adam Hernandez 22:31For spon- being spontaneous.

Tim Fulton 22:33Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 22:33Uh, I mean, so, like, it dep- it honestly depends on kinda how I'm feeling. I usually do have, like, a little bit of a con- like, mental concept. It's not always sketched out. Um, but I also allow, like, for the Pittsburgh one for example, I wanted to do this, like, owl goddess lady.

Tim Fulton 22:48Okay.

Adam Hernandez 22:48Um, she was wearing, like, an owl god mask on her head, and, um, she was, like, kinda surrounded by some plants and stuff like that. I had the concept, and I had, like, a rough sketch of it, but when I was on the wall and talking to the other artists, meeting people walking by, talking, like, it kind of, it, I don't know, just, like, hate to use the word vibing off of the event, but, um-

Tim Fulton 23:06Right. Well, it evolved, right?

Adam Hernandez 23:08Yeah, yeah. And, like, so just talking to people and seeing the colors the artists on either side of me were using influenced the colors that I chose to use. I wanted it to kind of flow. It's like I had this vision of what it was gonna look like, but I was like, yeah, I can be, like, really specific on what I want, but it's not gonna work for the overall piece. There's 10 other artists painting on this wall. I want it to be a cohesive-

Tim Fulton 23:26Right

Adam Hernandez 23:26... cool looking thing, so I was able to kinda work it so that it flowed with everybody else.

Tim Fulton 23:30And this was a permanent installation, not like Urban Scrawl where it's just individual panels, right?

Adam Hernandez 23:35Mm. Yeah, and I don't know how long it'll be there. I think it'll be up there for at least the next year or so.

Tim Fulton 23:39Okay.

Adam Hernandez 23:40But it's on a huge wall on the side of a place called Spirit in Pittsburgh, which is a really cool-

Tim Fulton 23:44Cool

Adam Hernandez 23:45... bar venue pizzeria.

Tim Fulton 23:46Yeah, and we'll link to that in the show notes as well.

Adam Hernandez 23:49Their white, uh, Sicilian pizza, if anybody's in Pittsburgh-

Tim Fulton 23:53Okay

Adam Hernandez 23:53... I would definitely suggest checking it out. It's really good.

Tim Fulton 23:55Good. Good. I'll make sure I tag that as well. When did you come to Columbus?

Adam Hernandez 24:00Uh, 10 years ago, about.

Tim Fulton 24:02Okay.

Adam Hernandez 24:0310, 11 years ago.

Tim Fulton 24:03And were you painting in the Bronx before that?

Adam Hernandez 24:06Um, not really. I mean, I was making art, doodling, and just stuff in notebooks, but not at, like, at the level that I was-

Tim Fulton 24:13Okay

Adam Hernandez 24:13... until maybe I would say maybe seven or eight years ago is when I, like, really got into painting.

Tim Fulton 24:19Okay.

Adam Hernandez 24:19And I was probably painting for about a year, kinda developing a style. Honestly, my first couple paintings really sucked.

Tim Fulton 24:25Okay.

Adam Hernandez 24:25But, um-

Tim Fulton 24:26You're, like murals?

Adam Hernandez 24:27No, no, no.

Tim Fulton 24:28Oh, okay.

Adam Hernandez 24:28Like just painting, painting.

Tim Fulton 24:29Got it.

Adam Hernandez 24:29Um, and, uh- There was a place, I don't know if you're familiar with the 83 Gallery-

Tim Fulton 24:35Yeah

Adam Hernandez 24:35... used to be in the Short North.

Tim Fulton 24:36Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 24:36The dudes that ran that, like I feel eternally indebted to them because they provided a space where any artist of any skill level could showcase artwork for like, I think they charged like $25 a month, and they took like 20% commission.

Tim Fulton 24:50Okay.

Adam Hernandez 24:50Literally just to keep the lights on. They didn't make any money off of it.

Tim Fulton 24:53Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 24:54And like I had my first art show there, and somebody bought a painting, and it was like the coolest feeling. Like something that-

Tim Fulton 25:01Yeah

Adam Hernandez 25:01... I painted in my kitchen, somebody wants to spend, I think it was like 150 bucks or something. But it's like that meant so much to me. And like that was like really the spark that got me, it's like, I could actually do this. 'Cause I mean, I think I had always entertained the idea. I'm like super into comic books and stuff like that.

Tim Fulton 25:15Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 25:15And I was always thought like it would be cool to be a comic book artist or a cartoonist or something, but it didn't seem realistic-

Tim Fulton 25:22Right

Adam Hernandez 25:22... until like that moment where I was like, people are willing to invest in this, that kinda encouraged me to keep trying it, and I kept showing with them. And the guys in there, uh, they just, they helped me kinda hone in on my skill and clean my stuff up a little bit more, how to present myself, be more professional.

Tim Fulton 25:38Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 25:38And from there, just kind of learning as I've gone along.

Tim Fulton 25:42Gotcha.

Adam Hernandez 25:43Yeah.

Tim Fulton 25:43For somebody who is interested in sort of involving themselves in the art scene a little bit more-

Adam Hernandez 25:49Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 25:49... are there groups that you reached out to, or was it really just hitting people up on Facebook, like, you know, folks like Adam-

Adam Hernandez 25:57Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 25:57... who do both small scale and large scale work?

Adam Hernandez 26:01Mm.

Tim Fulton 26:01How did you, how did you find your way into that?

Adam Hernandez 26:05Um, yeah. Well, there's like a really awesome Facebook group called The Art and Artists of 614.

Tim Fulton 26:10Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 26:10I've gotten a lot of leads through that. Um, and it's a sweet place because like, say somebody posts a lead or like an event or something, it's cool 'cause it's like the community-

Tim Fulton 26:20Yeah

Adam Hernandez 26:20... of artists helps curate it, so like up and comers who are kinda green, don't really know, they can ... People who are a little more like veterans in the scene can kind of be like, "Don't do it. Not worth your time."

Tim Fulton 26:30Right.

Adam Hernandez 26:30Or they'll be like, "Hey, for up and comers, it's a great opportunity. You should definitely go for it." First couple like quote, unquote shows I had were in, other than 83 Gallery, were like in restaurants and stuff like that.

Tim Fulton 26:40Okay.

Adam Hernandez 26:40So that kinda helped me learn how to like create a cohesive body of work in a space, instead of just having a bunch of random paintings.

Tim Fulton 26:45Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 26:46Being like, maybe I should use same color c- palette or be thematic in some way.

Tim Fulton 26:49Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 26:50And then from there, people seeing it, just, I don't know, going to other art shows. Uh, just honestly, like sometimes cold calling people. Um, the first time I met Adam Brouillette was because, do you know Brent Foley?

Tim Fulton 27:03Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 27:03I had a show-

Tim Fulton 27:03The architect?

Adam Hernandez 27:04Yeah, I had a show-

Tim Fulton 27:05Yeah

Adam Hernandez 27:05... at Gallery Denmark, and I was kind of in a slow patch on the art side of s- things, and I hit him up and I was like, "Hey, I know you guys are involved in development and architecture. Um, if you have any new projects coming up and you need an artist involved, please..." And he was super, he's like, he's like, "I might not directly be able to help you with that, but I can connect you with some people who could."

Tim Fulton 27:24Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 27:25He suggested Adam Brouillette. We went and had lunch together, and Adam's definitely like helped me develop and grow. Um-

Tim Fulton 27:32Yeah

Adam Hernandez 27:32... trying to think of some of the other people. Brent Foley's been like super helpful, Adam Brouillette. Jeremy Jarvis, uh, who's a super badass. Uh, he doesn't have like as, like a buzzy name in the Columbus art scene. He's a super badass painter, but he's in a lot of stuff with like, um, he's done a lot of stuff with the Harmony Project. He leads a lot of their community-based murals, and he's brought me-

Tim Fulton 27:51Okay

Adam Hernandez 27:51... on some projects. There's, a lot of the stuff he does, it's not as much, um, of the like, I guess, I don't know how to say, like fine art, artistic murals. Sometimes a little more-

Tim Fulton 28:00Yeah

Adam Hernandez 28:00... corporate, but-

Tim Fulton 28:01Okay

Adam Hernandez 28:02... one thing that I've learned from Jeremy was that I used to have a big hangup about like having to only be able to paint my style. Like I only want to paint my Thunderbirds or my graffiti inspired stuff like that.

Tim Fulton 28:11Okay.

Adam Hernandez 28:12But he supports a f- his family, he has four kids, like solely off of artwork.

Tim Fulton 28:17Okay.

Adam Hernandez 28:17And it kind of made me realize, like he devel- he designs these murals and stuff, and like maybe, I'm sure he m- I don't, I don't know like what stuff he might traditionally wanna paint or-

Tim Fulton 28:26Right

Adam Hernandez 28:27... but he's like found a way to like, he still gets to make art and make money off of it.

Tim Fulton 28:31Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 28:31It's really awesome.

Tim Fulton 28:31I mean, there's so ... I mean, even in my own work, I'm like-

Adam Hernandez 28:34Mm

Tim Fulton 28:34... God, I hate doing this.

Adam Hernandez 28:36Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 28:36Like, you know, whether it's putting together Facebook ads or, you know, a market validation study-

Adam Hernandez 28:46Mm

Tim Fulton 28:46... for s- for something that I just do not have any interest in.

Adam Hernandez 28:51Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 28:51And I have to remind myself a little bit, like this is what I'm getting paid to do.

Adam Hernandez 28:55Yeah.

Tim Fulton 28:55Like this is, there's a reason why they call it work.

Adam Hernandez 28:58Yeah.

Tim Fulton 28:59I know that sounds a little silly-

Adam Hernandez 29:02Mm

Tim Fulton 29:02... but it's important to me to c- to, uh, retain agency over-

Adam Hernandez 29:08Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 29:08... uh, the work that I do.

Adam Hernandez 29:10Mm.

Tim Fulton 29:10It's not, you know, I'm not a visual artist.

Adam Hernandez 29:12Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 29:13I'm not an artist, but that's super important. And if you want me to step outside of that-

Adam Hernandez 29:18Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 29:19... you're gonna compensate me for it.

Adam Hernandez 29:20Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 29:20So-

Adam Hernandez 29:21Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 29:21... yeah, absolutely. So is the goal for you to get to a point where this is what you're doing full time? I know thankfully your, your day job allows for a little bit of artistic expression as well.

Adam Hernandez 29:32Mm. Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 29:33Um, but is that the end goal to-

Adam Hernandez 29:34Oh, one, yeah, 100%. Um, yeah, s- simply like-

Tim Fulton 29:38How close are you?

Adam Hernandez 29:40Um-

Tim Fulton 29:40Is it come to ... I, I guess I think about like, hey, if I wanna take another step in my career, I may need to go back to school, or-

Adam Hernandez 29:48Mm

Tim Fulton 29:48... I may need to set goals for doing this many-

Adam Hernandez 29:51Mm

Tim Fulton 29:51... projects or these kind of projects. Is it, are you able to set out like a five-year plan for yourself?

Adam Hernandez 29:56It's, it's funny you ask that. It's something that I think about all the time, and it sh- like stresses me out. Um-

Tim Fulton 30:01Okay.

Adam Hernandez 30:02But I mean, like not necessarily in a bad way, but it's def- definitely something I n- just need to think about and be smart about, like especially of having just gotten married and like wanting to start a family and have kids. It's like-

Tim Fulton 30:10Yeah

Adam Hernandez 30:11... right now, like I can't quit my full-time job and solely do art.

Tim Fulton 30:15Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 30:15There are moments that I'm so busy and so overwhelmed, I just like sometimes like hate that I have a job, but then, and it's like I'm making like really good commissions, have a couple murals on lock. But then like that, that busy period passes and it's like, all right, well, there's a couple months without any artwork coming in. So-

Tim Fulton 30:31Right

Adam Hernandez 30:32... when I get to a point where it's like, I literally have no time to stop and there's like constantly art coming in, then I can evaluate that and see if it's worth it.

Tim Fulton 30:40Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 30:40But, um-

Tim Fulton 30:41Or have a little bit of savings set aside-

Adam Hernandez 30:43Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 30:44... so that like, hey, the slow times aren't gonna be that bad.

Adam Hernandez 30:46Yeah, yeah, yeah. One thing that I'm trying to like learn and teach myself is like even having like a little bit of like a cushion of savings is like, yeah, it might get me through a couple month, but like having to think about like 10 years down the road, 15 years down the road-

Tim Fulton 30:58Yeah

Adam Hernandez 30:58... having kids like-

Tim Fulton 30:59Retirement.

Adam Hernandez 31:00Yeah

Tim Fulton 31:00... 529 plans.

Adam Hernandez 31:01Which is like, I'm like 30, dude. Why am I thinking about this stuff? But-

Tim Fulton 31:04This is exactly when you should be thinking about it.

Adam Hernandez 31:06Yeah, yeah. So it's like, I mean, it's like really cool to think about just quitting your job and going off and doing it, and I did that for about a year. It was awesome. It was also nerve-wracking. And like-

Tim Fulton 31:15Right

Adam Hernandez 31:16... I, I didn't even enjoy making art 'cause I was constantly worried about like, "When's the next job c- coming in? When am I going to get this next commission? When am I gonna do, doing this thing?" or whatever.

Tim Fulton 31:24Can I pay rent?

Adam Hernandez 31:25Yeah.

Tim Fulton 31:26Right.

Adam Hernandez 31:26So like what's been awesome, one of the advantages, and it's just like a mental mindset that I've just changed, like having a job provides like this really cool freedom in that, which would seem like it doesn't provide freedom. It seems like some people might view it as more restraining. But to me it's like I don't have to take every, like at a, at a point I was taking every art job that I could get. I was like designing logos for, like I'm not a graphic designer but I was like taking these jobs on, and I wasn't very good at it.

Tim Fulton 31:50Okay.

Adam Hernandez 31:50But I was like desperate just to make work. Now I can be a little more particular and specific about what jobs I take on that are gonna help me build my brand and name.

Tim Fulton 32:00Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 32:00And, uh, just things are gonna be a little more lucrative for me. So like going back to like time being very important, it's like if I say yes to something, it's like something that I know it's gonna be valuable.

Tim Fulton 32:10Right.

Adam Hernandez 32:10Not that it's all about money, but I have to, like if I wanna be a profess- like a full-time professional artist-

Tim Fulton 32:15Right

Adam Hernandez 32:15... I have to think in that way, you know?

Tim Fulton 32:17Absolutely.

Adam Hernandez 32:17So.

Tim Fulton 32:18And you just did a piece actually along those lines on the new Gravity Project site in Franklinton-

Adam Hernandez 32:23Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 32:23... um, which also has a world-renowned muralist, Kobra, on it. Did you get to interact with, how was that proj- 'cause there were multiple local muralists-

Adam Hernandez 32:31Yeah, yeah

Tim Fulton 32:32... on that project, right?

Adam Hernandez 32:33Oh, yeah. Um, I think that they did an awesome job of curating that, bringing in out of s- uh, international talent. Kobra's literally one of the f- most famous muralists in the world.

Tim Fulton 32:42Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 32:42And, uh, and providing opportunity for up-and-comers like myself. Um, it was just a lot of fun. They were really cool, um-

Tim Fulton 32:49Did they curate that internally? Like it was just one of their staff people that sort of did the outreach and figured it out?

Adam Hernandez 32:55Yeah, a little bit. Um, I was, uh, a little bit-

Tim Fulton 32:59And to be clear, this is Kaufman Development that, that-

Adam Hernandez 33:01Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 33:01... would've been the one curating it.

Adam Hernandez 33:03Mm-hmm. I did, it was a little bit, I don't know how it worked for all, I know they did put out a call for artists. Um-

Tim Fulton 33:08Okay

Adam Hernandez 33:08... I was a little bit, like preemptive or like one thing that I've done is sometimes I'll just like read the Columbus Underground and-

Tim Fulton 33:16Yeah

Adam Hernandez 33:16... see what new restaurants, businesses, developments are going up, and finding the people running them and reaching out to them.

Tim Fulton 33:23Who may be making that decision, right.

Adam Hernandez 33:25That's that. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 33:25Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 33:25And it's like, so I would suggest, well, maybe I shouldn't be saying this. Like other people can steal-

Tim Fulton 33:29Don't steal-

Adam Hernandez 33:29... my trade secret.

Tim Fulton 33:30Right.

Adam Hernandez 33:31I'm just kidding. But, uh, so yeah, I reached out to them a, like a long time, and I think like serendipitously they ha- were just starting the conversation about artists-

Tim Fulton 33:40Right

Adam Hernandez 33:40... when I reached out to them about being an artist. So it worked out really well. So I kinda got in from like the ground up and started talking to them, and it was like a long process. Obviously it needs to go through, uh, a lot of approval, and like they were trying to create this thing to be cohesive throughout the space. Even though there's like a lot of different individual styles, I think they still-

Tim Fulton 33:57Right

Adam Hernandez 33:57... kinda wanted kind of like a s- certain aesthetic, if you will.

Tim Fulton 34:00Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 34:01So, um, yeah, and I'll give a-

Tim Fulton 34:03No, they cer- they certainly curate their spaces to an extent.

Adam Hernandez 34:06Yeah, yes.

Tim Fulton 34:06So.

Adam Hernandez 34:06Um, so yeah, I, I sent 'em, and it was like similar to what we were talking about earlier. I s- gave them a couple concept sketches. They found one that they really wanted. I refined it, and then I just executed it on the wall. Executed, that makes it sound like I killed it, but-

Tim Fulton 34:20No, that's, that's exactly what you did.

Adam Hernandez 34:22You know what I mean? Yeah.

Tim Fulton 34:22You did.

Adam Hernandez 34:22I killed it, yo.

Tim Fulton 34:22You did. Um, what, uh, we, we've, you know, I'm not gonna call it name-dropping, but we've referenced a couple other artists and organizations. Anybody else that, for, uh, consumers of art-

Adam Hernandez 34:38Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 34:38... uh, anybody else that folks should, uh, and apologies to anybody you forget-

Adam Hernandez 34:43Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 34:43... but anything else or things that folks should check out?

Adam Hernandez 34:47There are a ton of, uh, really talented, really cool people here in Columbus. Um, again, like you said, forgive, like forgive me for not mentioning certain people.

Tim Fulton 34:55Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 34:56But, um, names that come to the, my mind, like dudes like Paul Jovis-

Tim Fulton 35:01Mm-hmm

Adam Hernandez 35:02... Patrick Wayner. Uh, Patrick Wayner is dope. He like, we did a show, I don't know, probably like five years together, this thing called Worst Keep Secret Fest.

Tim Fulton 35:11Okay.

Adam Hernandez 35:11It used to do at, they used to do it at The Dude Locker, and both of us were kind of like starting off showing work out there. Just, it was really cool to see, we both have like grown and branched out in different ways, so it's really cool to see where his style has gone. Doing like these crazy three-dimensional pieces, uh, with like found objects and like cut wood. Um, huge inspiration for me. I really dig his stuff a lot. Um, Covert Number One, the street artist.

Tim Fulton 35:36Okay.

Adam Hernandez 35:36Uh, I love what he does. It's all about positivity, and like h- what's really cool about him, he's like, he's not-

Tim Fulton 35:43Is that the rainbow guy?

Adam Hernandez 35:44Yeah, he does like the love bombs with the rainbows-

Tim Fulton 35:46Yeah. Okay

Adam Hernandez 35:46... and stuff like that. Um, I'm sure you've seen it all over Columbus.

Tim Fulton 35:49Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 35:49What's really cool, what I love about Covert so much is that the work, he, he's not doing it for money. He's like creating all this artwork, so prolific, and is like literally doing it just to like brighten people's days. And so like the-

Tim Fulton 36:01Well, and like Stephanie and I talked a lot about the difference between a street artist and a, and a muralist.

Adam Hernandez 36:06Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 36:06You know? And that, you know, that's a street artist.

Adam Hernandez 36:10Yeah.

Tim Fulton 36:10Totally. I mean, not asking for permission where to put your work.

Adam Hernandez 36:13Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 36:14So yeah. Who else?

Adam Hernandez 36:16I'm trying to think of more folks. Um, Nick Stull, super badass painter. He's one of the guys who ran 83 Gallery.

Tim Fulton 36:22Okay.

Adam Hernandez 36:22Now he's one of the preparators at The Wexner Center.

Tim Fulton 36:24Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 36:25Um, which actually I had the opportunity of when I was doing like full-time art stuff, I was able to actually help out on an install there, which was super awesome.

Tim Fulton 36:32Which show?

Adam Hernandez 36:33Uh, the Gray Matter show.

Tim Fulton 36:35Oh, great.

Adam Hernandez 36:35So it was the first one that Michael curated. Uh, other folks, somebody who doesn't, not a painter but who's a super badass artist, Dana Lynn Harper. She just had a show-

Tim Fulton 36:45Yeah

Adam Hernandez 36:45... at 934 Gallery. Huge fan of her work. Super cool, super immersive. I felt like when I walked into, I don't know if you got to see that show in person.

Tim Fulton 36:52I did not.

Adam Hernandez 36:53But when you walk into the front room, it, it was like, "Oh, I'm literally like in another dimension," in like the best way possible.

Tim Fulton 36:58Okay.

Adam Hernandez 36:59It was super cool. Um- A good friend of mine who's a talented visual artist and musician, Kayleigh Featherstone.

Tim Fulton 37:05Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 37:06She plays with St. Seneca. We actually used to be in a band together with Mike Hepburn and Alfie Ciccone-

Tim Fulton 37:12Okay

Adam Hernandez 37:12... dudes who are still playing in bands in Columbus. Kayleigh's an inspiration to me in that she just kinda t- got an opportunity to go on tour with St. Seneca, and took the leap and did it, and she's making moves and making it happen.

Tim Fulton 37:24Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 37:24I'm like, I really admire people who are just willing to take that leap and go for it. Um, there's so many more people. Those are the ones that come. Natalia Sanchez, another one. She's also a Block 4 artist.

Tim Fulton 37:34Okay.

Adam Hernandez 37:35Uh, super cool. We did a, going back to c- collaboration, we did a collaboration-

Tim Fulton 37:39Yeah

Adam Hernandez 37:39... a collaborative show together. Um, Logan Schmidt, he's also out of Block 4, really cool, talented guy. So a lot of those folks like, like guys like Logan Schmidt and Paul Jovis, like don't, I don't have a similar style to them at all, but like, what I admire and respect about them is that when you see one of their pieces, you know it's them.

Tim Fulton 37:58Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 37:58And like that's something that I like really strive for, is that like having a, like a really distinctive voice. And like when people see it, it's like, "Oh, this is an Adam Hernandez piece. Oh, this is a so-and-so piece."

Tim Fulton 38:08Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 38:09I think as an artist that's kind of important to have that.

Tim Fulton 38:12No, absolutely.

Adam Hernandez 38:13Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 38:13Well, and to, it, it holds you up a lot, you know, when folks are able to say, "That's an Adam Hernandez."

Adam Hernandez 38:20Mm.

Tim Fulton 38:20Or at least, "That's looks like an Adam Hernandez."

Adam Hernandez 38:23Mm.

Tim Fulton 38:24Um, anything that you see sort of, given, you know, that you're from the Bronx and, uh, you know, you've been here for 10 years or so-

Adam Hernandez 38:32Mm

Tim Fulton 38:32... anything that Columbus is missing or not necessarily doing well right now?

Adam Hernandez 38:36Um, I don't wanna talk too much shit, 'cause Columbus has been really good to me.

Tim Fulton 38:40Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 38:41Um, some things that are like a little frustrating sometimes is that I feel like we talk a big game about wanting to have more art here.

Tim Fulton 38:50Mm-hmm.

Adam Hernandez 38:50And we have a lot of art. It's a growing art scene, but there's like a lot of hindrances to that.

Tim Fulton 38:55Okay.

Adam Hernandez 38:55And I think, and I d- I'm not gonna call names or name drop anybody or anything like that, but I feel like sometimes, uh, certain powers that be who are, they'll say they're trying to help, but like, it's like the poop's in the pudding, dude. Like try to make some moves on that.

Tim Fulton 39:08Meaning, so are you talking about like not wanting to pay for it or not wanting to-

Adam Hernandez 39:12Yeah. I mean, it come, it comes down to money. It's like, I mean, I hate to, like I hate to make it about that, but I mean, it is like if we value, if we say we value art so much, it's like this is people's time, their energy, they're really pouring their heart and soul into this.

Tim Fulton 39:24Right.

Adam Hernandez 39:24Like if you have a leaky roof and you have somebody come and fix it, like-

Tim Fulton 39:27You're not gonna ask them to donate their time

Adam Hernandez 39:29... exactly, for exposure. Like, "I'll tell everybody how good you are at fixing a leaky roof."

Tim Fulton 39:34Well, are these pr- I mean, because one of the things that I have-

Adam Hernandez 39:37Mm

Tim Fulton 39:37... touted GCAC for in the past is they will not even let, they will not provide an introduction to their artists if you're not willing to at least pay them an honorarium, even to, for like speaking or something like that. GCAC has done a really good job at that.

Adam Hernandez 39:54Mm.

Tim Fulton 39:55They're obviously trying to find more money for-

Adam Hernandez 39:58Mm

Tim Fulton 39:58... um, public art.

Adam Hernandez 39:59Mm.

Tim Fulton 39:59And I think that they're, that's a good process.

Adam Hernandez 40:02Mm.

Tim Fulton 40:02Or excuse me, I think that that's an, I think that that's an admirable process-

Adam Hernandez 40:08Mm

Tim Fulton 40:08... that they're going through. Um, and I think that we need more public art.

Adam Hernandez 40:12Mm.

Tim Fulton 40:12I think every time I travel to even a smaller city and I see really cool shit, I'm like, "God, why don't we have, you know, more than a deer on a bridge?"

Adam Hernandez 40:23And that's, yeah, and that's kind, that's more specifically about like if I'm bitching about something, it's that.

Tim Fulton 40:28Right.

Adam Hernandez 40:28It's like why don't we have... We have so many talented people here with so many great ideas, and it's like we aren't providing opportunities for them. Like, um, one-

Tim Fulton 40:36So are, I guess I-

Adam Hernandez 40:37... I think one, like thing that r- really bugs me a lot-

Tim Fulton 40:39Yeah

Adam Hernandez 40:40... I don't know if, I don't wanna like make myself look like an asshole.

Tim Fulton 40:42Say it.

Adam Hernandez 40:43All right.

Tim Fulton 40:43Well, I'll call you on it if I think you are.

Adam Hernandez 40:44Well, one thing in particular, and I don't, like I'm not trying to like burn any bridges or like talk-

Tim Fulton 40:48No

Adam Hernandez 40:48... too much shit, but like for example, like the Short North Arts District.

Tim Fulton 40:51Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 40:51Um, it's called the Arts District. Where's the art?

Tim Fulton 40:54Well-

Adam Hernandez 40:55And like-

Tim Fulton 40:56As, as the guy who, uh, signed off on the grants program for small murals there-

Adam Hernandez 41:02Mm

Tim Fulton 41:02... yeah, they, I think they're trying, you know?

Adam Hernandez 41:05Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 41:05But they also have to accept the, there's a whole lot at play there.

Adam Hernandez 41:11Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 41:11Um, there's, you know, the city trying to come up with a parking plan. There's, um, private developers putting up things that are, quote-unquote, "art," but are really just advertisements for their building.

Adam Hernandez 41:24Yeah.

Tim Fulton 41:25Um, and there's, I worry a lot about, you know, I think the Kobra piece is great.

Adam Hernandez 41:31Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 41:32Um, there was some criticism when it was announced that it was happening-

Adam Hernandez 41:36Yeah

Tim Fulton 41:36... that that, that's not a local artist.

Adam Hernandez 41:38Mm.

Tim Fulton 41:38And I'm like, you th- literally, what are you talking about?

Adam Hernandez 41:43Yeah.

Tim Fulton 41:43Like, this is a international artist that comes here and, you know, that's a rising tide-

Adam Hernandez 41:49Yeah

Tim Fulton 41:49... for all artists here.

Adam Hernandez 41:50I agree. And like, and like somebody firsthand who was like, "I have a mural around the corner from Kobra."

Tim Fulton 41:55Mm.

Adam Hernandez 41:55Like how cool is that for somebody like me? And like I can say that now.

Tim Fulton 41:57Technically it's the same building.

Adam Hernandez 41:59Yeah.

Tim Fulton 41:59You know? Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 41:59Like it's super cool. And like, and it brings up, it brings up the whole, the scene as a whole, the artists as a whole around it, and it like, it puts a little ping on Columbus. Like now other international like muralists will be like look, like, "Oh, Kobra has a piece there. Like, is that a city that I need to put work in?"

Tim Fulton 42:14I mean, it should be noted that people will come here to see that.

Adam Hernandez 42:17Yes, exactly.

Tim Fulton 42:18Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 42:18And like, I think it just, yeah, I don't know. I didn't understand the, uh, why people were so upset about that. I-

Tim Fulton 42:25Well, I think you see the headline and it's like international muralist Kobra, and they don't do, they... Well, I'm not gonna require people to do research before they start criticizing things, but like be open to the idea that like, yeah, there's an international muralist, but also all these local muralists-

Adam Hernandez 42:43Mm

Tim Fulton 42:43... that are there. Um, I guess my question is, you know, for example, the Short North or, or any other-

Adam Hernandez 42:52Mm

Tim Fulton 42:52... um, center district-

Adam Hernandez 42:53Mm

Tim Fulton 42:54... what, uh, what do you think it needs? Do you think it needs more investment? Do you think it needs more building owners and developers open and wanting these things?

Adam Hernandez 43:03Yeah. Okay. I think that like-

Tim Fulton 43:05Have you hit a wall? Like what?

Adam Hernandez 43:06Yeah. Well, like in particular, I've met with some folks in the Short North. I had some ideas, and I was like, "If I contacted a business and they were willing to pay me for a mural, like could I do that?" And they've like straight up said no. And they're like they're ... And I was like, "Well, you have these vinyl murals there," and their reasoning for-

Tim Fulton 43:21Well, so there you're dealing with some interesting things too, right? The vinyl murals are, I don't know this for a fact.

Adam Hernandez 43:28Mm.

Tim Fulton 43:28But knowing, having worked with, uh, the historic area commissions on both sides of High Street.

Adam Hernandez 43:34Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 43:34Just for folks that don't know, one side of High Street is dictated by the Victorian Village Commission.

Adam Hernandez 43:38Mm.

Tim Fulton 43:38And the other side's dictated by the Italian Village Commission.

Adam Hernandez 43:43Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 43:43Um, those vinyl murals are technically temporary.

Adam Hernandez 43:46Yeah.

Tim Fulton 43:46They can be removed.

Adam Hernandez 43:47Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 43:48And so you have to get approval for-

Adam Hernandez 43:50Mm

Tim Fulton 43:51... every aspect of that before you put it up. You have to get approval for the design, everything like that.

Adam Hernandez 43:58Mm.

Tim Fulton 43:58It's not like SoHuD-

Adam Hernandez 44:00Mm

Tim Fulton 44:01... where there, you know, it's-

Adam Hernandez 44:02Yeah

Tim Fulton 44:02... the University Area Commission-

Adam Hernandez 44:04Mm

Tim Fulton 44:04... that isn't tasked with maintaining the historic aspects of the district.

Adam Hernandez 44:08Yeah. And here's my thing ab- okay, so one, like I'm not trying to knock it too much. I'm not trying-

Tim Fulton 44:12Yeah

Adam Hernandez 44:12... to sound like an asshole. Again, I've had great opportunities here. Um, the vinyl mural, and like those vinyl murals are dope. Like there's a lot of cool artists, and like it's cool they've showcased different like styles of art throughout them.

Tim Fulton 44:23Yeah.

Adam Hernandez 44:23And it adds something like to the neighborhood. To me it's like, okay, yeah, under- like preserving the historic brick, but like are we gonna like keep living in the past or are we gonna create our own history so that people-

Tim Fulton 44:34Mm-hmm

Adam Hernandez 44:35... can, 20 years from now, can like look back. I mean, it's like the, the, uh, the Mona Lisa mural, which a lot of people don't even know about, which is like that huge mural. I think it's on Pearl-

Tim Fulton 44:43Uh-huh

Adam Hernandez 44:44... Alley, like next to ... Like that's been there for years. Like I'm sure that building has historic value as well. You know what I mean? Maybe not.

Tim Fulton 44:49That was-

Adam Hernandez 44:50I don't know. I'm pulling that out of my ass, but.

Tim Fulton 44:51Well, that's also before the historic area commissions had much power in the neighborhood.

Adam Hernandez 44:56Yeah.

Tim Fulton 44:56I mean, the Short North was very different 20 years ago.

Adam Hernandez 44:59Yeah.

Tim Fulton 44:59Um, you know, not trying to talk like an old guy.

Adam Hernandez 45:02Yeah.

Tim Fulton 45:02But I understand. I'm not saying the limitations are right.

Adam Hernandez 45:07Uh-uh.

Tim Fulton 45:08I'm saying that there are limitations.

Adam Hernandez 45:10Yeah.

Tim Fulton 45:10That's it.

Adam Hernandez 45:11And maybe it's something I just need to like get over and do other projects.

Tim Fulton 45:14No. I wouldn't s-

Adam Hernandez 45:15Uh.

Tim Fulton 45:15I would suggest that you continue to push.

Adam Hernandez 45:16Uh.

Tim Fulton 45:17I think that it's looking for the opportunities.

Adam Hernandez 45:22Mm.

Tim Fulton 45:22And frankly, um, I don't know that that neighborhood needs it, you know?

Adam Hernandez 45:28Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 45:28We, I think that it's gonna continue being known as the, as the Short North Arts District, and it's gonna continue having, um, tourists come through town. But I would, I mean, I would look at the development that's gonna be happening on Park Street just north of-

Adam Hernandez 45:41Yeah

Tim Fulton 45:41... Arena District.

Adam Hernandez 45:42Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 45:42And what the opportunities are, um, before there's too much institutional influence-

Adam Hernandez 45:52Yeah

Tim Fulton 45:52... over what happens.

Adam Hernandez 45:53Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 45:54So yeah, I think there's tons of opportunities.

Adam Hernandez 45:57Okay.

Tim Fulton 45:57But Adam, thank you so much for your time today.

Adam Hernandez 46:00Uh, thanks for having me, man. Really appreciate it.

Tim Fulton 46:11Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite muralist. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.