Barbara Fant

Tim Fulton 0:11Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, I sat down with poet and performance artist Barbara Fant to talk about the ins and outs of slam poetry, her evolution in the art form, the importance of mentors, the difference between writing and performing that writing, how to deal with burning out, and what it's like to share very personal work on stage. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored this week by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Barbara Fant, performance poet. Barbara, how are you?

Barbara Fant 1:43I'm well, thank you. How are you?

Tim Fulton 1:44I'm great. I'm great.

Barbara Fant 1:46Awesome.

Tim Fulton 1:46Barbara, how did you become a performance poet?

Barbara Fant 1:49Sure. So I've always written. Um, I grew up writing poetry.

Tim Fulton 1:54Mm-hmm.

Barbara Fant 1:55When I was about 15, I always say that, um, you know, I found poetry when I was younger, but when I was 15, poetry found me.

Tim Fulton 2:03Okay.

Barbara Fant 2:03I lost my mother when I was 15, and I also lost a brother-in-law. When I was 17, my father was diagnosed with a mental illness. So I experienced a lot of trauma, especially growing up in Youngstown, Ohio.

Tim Fulton 2:15Okay.

Barbara Fant 2:15You grow up in a lot of trauma. So I experienced a lot of trauma. I was an angry teenager. I didn't know how to talk about it. Um, I wanted to go to counseling and my dad said, "Nope, you're going to church."

Tim Fulton 2:25Okay.

Barbara Fant 2:26So I wrote poetry, um, and that became a way of release for me. It became a way of processing. It became a way of communicating. And, um, when I was in maybe my senior year, I used to watch HBO Def Poetry.

Tim Fulton 2:41Okay.

Barbara Fant 2:42And I saw a poet on there from New Orleans named Sunni Patterson.

Tim Fulton 2:45Okay.

Barbara Fant 2:45And I was like, "Oh my goodness. I wanna do what she does." So when I came to Columbus to go to school, I found an open mic at the Brown Stone. It was called Black Pearl Poetry.

Tim Fulton 2:56Mm-hmm.

Barbara Fant 2:57And, um, I ended up falling in love with that space. I got on the mic, and I haven't left the stage since.

Tim Fulton 3:03Okay. And is that how you discovered it through popular culture? Like, it wasn't a mentor or some educational facility?

Barbara Fant 3:11Right. I... It was definitely through popular culture.

Tim Fulton 3:13Okay.

Barbara Fant 3:13Um, I got heavily into music when I was younger, too.

Tim Fulton 3:17Mm-hmm.

Barbara Fant 3:17And I, I heard of underground rap battles and, you know, a few of my, my sister's friends were interested in music, and so I learned about it there. But it really wasn't until I saw HBO Def Poetry that I realized, like, oh my goodness, like, people get on stage and they perform their hearts out through poetry, and that's really what I wanna do.

Tim Fulton 3:35And so was there a little bit of a scene going on in Youngstown at the time as well?

Barbara Fant 3:39Not poetry-wise.

Tim Fulton 3:40Okay.

Barbara Fant 3:40Really, um, really more m- music.

Tim Fulton 3:43Okay.

Barbara Fant 3:43So rap. And if there was, I didn't know about it. Um, I think they're starting to build a scene now.

Tim Fulton 3:48Really?

Barbara Fant 3:48But it's a lot of younger people. Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:50Okay.

Barbara Fant 3:50They actually do have a, a poetry scene now, but they're younger. Um, but I, but I do know that they have a scene, but they didn't when I was coming up.

Tim Fulton 3:57And as much as I know about your biography, you were doing the performance poetry, and then you actually went to seminary then after your time at college, right?

Barbara Fant 4:08I did. I did. So I studied at, um, Ohio Dominican University, and I did a literature degree there.

Tim Fulton 4:13Okay.

Barbara Fant 4:14And I wrote and performed. So I had started competing in what's called slam, if you know about slam. So I started competing, and so I did that for years. I also, um, worked for an organization called Art for a Child Safe America.

Tim Fulton 4:26Okay.

Barbara Fant 4:26It's no longer in existence, but what we did was we took poetry and visual arts into juvenile correctional facilities-

Tim Fulton 4:34Okay

Barbara Fant 4:34... and taught art as a form of healing. And I fell in love with that space. So it was like one of my first jobs. I was, like, 19.

Tim Fulton 4:40Okay.

Barbara Fant 4:40And I was going into, uh, this juvenile correctional facility, and some of the girls were even older than me, right?

Tim Fulton 4:46Right.

Barbara Fant 4:46And, um, and I just, I loved it. I fell in love with the space, and I said, "I wanna, I wanna be able to serve in this way. I feel connected to this space." And so I decided to go to seminary, uh, to become a prison chaplain.

Tim Fulton 4:59Okay.

Barbara Fant 4:59And, uh, my life took a different direction. So that's not exactly what I ended up doing, but all my field study was at a prison.

Tim Fulton 5:06Okay.

Barbara Fant 5:07So yeah.

Tim Fulton 5:07And I wanna get into s- some of the other ways that you use poetry in your current day-to-day, in your w- what I assume is mostly volunteer work.

Barbara Fant 5:15Yeah.

Tim Fulton 5:15I'm gonna invite you just first of all, since we're just getting going, to read us a poem, if you wouldn't mind.

Barbara Fant 5:22Sure. It's called Black Woman Repetition. Black woman, college degree. Black woman, master's. Black woman, student loans. Black woman loaned her life over to student student. Black woman woman full-time job. Single Black woman over 30. Single Black woman, 30? Black woman world calls bitter. Black woman bitten angry. Black Black woman bitter. Black angry broke. Is she the only thing broken? Let's talk about war. Let's talk about Vietnam. Men coming home limbless. Agent Orange where Black souls should be. Let's talk about fathers. Daddy didn't come home. Black woman got daddy issues. Black woman, daddy issues? Black woman, 30, still dealing with daddy issues. Black woman nurse. Black man. Black father. Black boy too afraid of his own insecurities. Black woman, Black hole. Black woman, not whole. Black woman. Black woman, you are more than just a hole your thighs uphold. Woman of Black. Black woman, you are not always the night. You are not always black and blue. Black woman, not Jonah. Black boy, are you Jonah? What do you do? When there's fear inside you the size of a whale's body, Black woman wail. Black woman travail for Black man. Black woman pray. Black woman pray. Black woman don't be another man's prey. She swim. Black woman float woman water. Black woman your face not always an aquarium's explosion.

Tim Fulton 6:35Wow. Um, it should be noted, obviously people can't see what's going on, that literally that, uh, piece of paper that you picked up is just tattered from- ... the, uh, from its continual use. Can you talk about sort of-

Barbara Fant 6:48Indeed

Tim Fulton 6:48... so you have some training in writing, right?

Barbara Fant 6:51Sure, yes.

Tim Fulton 6:52Okay.

Barbara Fant 6:53I do.

Tim Fulton 6:53Can you talk about that?

Barbara Fant 6:54Sure. I, I mean, I studied literature.

Tim Fulton 6:56Okay.

Barbara Fant 6:56So, I mean, I grew up-

Tim Fulton 6:58But that's not necessarily how to write.

Barbara Fant 7:00True.

Tim Fulton 7:00That's much more interpreting writing. But-

Barbara Fant 7:03Right. Right, that's analyzing writing.

Tim Fulton 7:04Right.

Barbara Fant 7:05Absolutely. So I mean, I, I grew up, I had mentors growing up in slam especially. I had coaches.

Tim Fulton 7:11Okay.

Barbara Fant 7:12So I attribute a lot of my success to Will Evans, who mentored me. Um, Is Said, who is a 80-something-year-old poet who's in the city. We call him the godfather of poetry.

Tim Fulton 7:22And has been mentioned a couple of times on this podcast. Yeah.

Barbara Fant 7:24Oh, really?

Tim Fulton 7:25Yeah.

Barbara Fant 7:25Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, so Is Said and The Advance Party really nurtured me. Um, he was somebody who made me sit down and do writing exercises, but then also thrusted me into performance.

Tim Fulton 7:37Okay.

Barbara Fant 7:37So he was doing a festival. I was coming right along with him and doing a festival with him, and, and getting on stage and, and doing a poem.

Tim Fulton 7:44Well, and that's the juxtaposition that I'm interested in actually-

Barbara Fant 7:46Yeah

Tim Fulton 7:46... is the writing and the performance aspect of it.

Barbara Fant 7:49Yeah.

Tim Fulton 7:50Do you write with the performance in mind?

Barbara Fant 7:55N- no, somet- no. I edit typically with the performance in mind.

Tim Fulton 7:59Got it.

Barbara Fant 7:59Sometimes if a rhythm will come to my head, then I know I need to write it in that way. But more than likely, it's really just the metaphor that I wanna use or the story that I wanna tell.

Tim Fulton 8:10Okay.

Barbara Fant 8:10So the way that I write, um, is really from a space of this is what I wanna say and how can I say this in the best way possible so that people can visualize it the way that I want them to see it. Um, but when I am, when I'm editing, I think about the performance that much more. So I think about my breathing patterns, I think about length, especially in slam.

Tim Fulton 8:31Mm-hmm. Right.

Barbara Fant 8:33Like, you can't go over three minutes, so you better have ... you know?

Tim Fulton 8:35Okay.

Barbara Fant 8:35And if you're doing an individual slam, you got a one-minute, two-minute, a three-minute, and a four-minute.

Tim Fulton 8:39Okay.

Barbara Fant 8:39So, you know, you have to think about those things, too. Um, but yeah, absolutely. I, I edit in, in thinking about performance, but not so much the writing.

Tim Fulton 8:49Got it.

Barbara Fant 8:49A lot of writing my, a lot of my writing won't get performed.

Tim Fulton 8:52And so how much, what is your typical subject matter, then-

Barbara Fant 8:56Yeah

Tim Fulton 8:56... of your po- poetry? Is that indicative of it, what we just heard?

Barbara Fant 9:00Some of it. You know, I, I've changed. I think I shifted over the years.

Tim Fulton 9:03Okay.

Barbara Fant 9:03I think a lot of it i- initially was more about, um, release and about this is what I've gone through, and this is my experience, and kinda that spiritual backing, too. Um, I'm a very spiritual person.

Tim Fulton 9:16Mm.

Barbara Fant 9:16So I talk a lot about God.

Tim Fulton 9:17Well, yeah.

Barbara Fant 9:17Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's a good way. Right?

Tim Fulton 9:19You got some background in it.

Barbara Fant 9:22Um, but a lot of what I write about now is about being a Black woman in America, um, and what that looks like and having to navigate through an all white space day in and day out.

Tim Fulton 9:34Okay.

Barbara Fant 9:34And, um, the trauma that can exist just from that.

Tim Fulton 9:38Okay.

Barbara Fant 9:39So yeah.

Tim Fulton 9:40You mentioned before we got on the microphone that you have been commissioned for pieces as well.

Barbara Fant 9:46Yes.

Tim Fulton 9:46Um, and I wanna talk about that, but I wanna talk about that in the context of how you choose what... Because basically you're-

Barbara Fant 9:54Mm

Tim Fulton 9:54... coming with for lack of a better metaphor, you're coming with weapons, right?

Barbara Fant 9:58Mm.

Tim Fulton 9:59You're coming to either a slam or a performance, and people aren't dictating to you what the subject matter needs to be, but you're certainly, uh, preemptively reacting to your audience of, I know this is it, you're doing it. You know, you're performing at the Ohio Art League's annual event coming up. You've performed with other organizations or in front of other esteemed individuals. And I imagine that you're picking the pieces based on who your audience is and to an extent what you wanna say to them.

Barbara Fant 10:35When I'm doing my own shows, yes.

Tim Fulton 10:37Okay.

Barbara Fant 10:37If I'm doing a commission piece-

Tim Fulton 10:39Okay

Barbara Fant 10:39... I'm not choosing the subject matter.

Tim Fulton 10:41Okay.

Barbara Fant 10:41They are. Um, so-

Tim Fulton 10:43So what's the, remind me what the commission piece that you have coming up.

Barbara Fant 10:46Yeah. So I'll be at, um, Ohio Environmental Council's annual gala.

Tim Fulton 10:50Okay.

Barbara Fant 10:50And so they really wanted me to write something about my own experience and, and how I understand the environmental issues that have impacted my life.

Tim Fulton 11:00Okay.

Barbara Fant 11:00Right. So they wanted me to come from this, um, space of, uh, being from Youngstown and what that looks like and how the land has impact- impacted my life personally. Right?

Tim Fulton 11:13Okay.

Barbara Fant 11:14In addition to they wanted me to use the theme of the white oak. So a lot of that is in the poem as well.

Tim Fulton 11:21Okay.

Barbara Fant 11:21I'm also right before the pitch, right, to ask for money. So there's that part of it, too. So might wanna edit that one out.

Tim Fulton 11:29No, no, no, no, no. No, that's interesting-

Barbara Fant 11:31But, um, yeah

Tim Fulton 11:31... actually, right? That they would inform you of that, of like, "Hey, we..." You know, they may even have said to you, like, "We don't mind if you're super controversial, but maybe we do mind a bit because this is where it falls in, in our program." Right?

Barbara Fant 11:45Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 11:45And so it's not like you're tempering yourself. It's just that's not what this performance is about.

Barbara Fant 11:52Absolutely.

Tim Fulton 11:53Right.

Barbara Fant 11:53Absolutely. If people are commissioning me, they're paying me for a specific job.

Tim Fulton 11:57Right.

Barbara Fant 11:57And I want to get the job done. And so-

Tim Fulton 11:59It's almost like commercial art to an extent, right?

Barbara Fant 12:01It is.

Tim Fulton 12:01Like-

Barbara Fant 12:02In, in a way.

Tim Fulton 12:03Yeah.

Barbara Fant 12:03Yeah. I mean, um, and because I, going back to that training piece, because I'm trained as a writer-

Tim Fulton 12:08Right

Barbara Fant 12:09... I know how to do it.

Tim Fulton 12:10Right.

Barbara Fant 12:11I can do it.

Tim Fulton 12:12Right.

Barbara Fant 12:12You know, I know the tools and the, the s- I have the skill. I've trained myself to do it. Um, and I've- ... grown up through that training, so I can get it done. Um, and I can take what you have, your, what you want me to draw on, or your subject matter, and I can pull it into a piece that manifests into something-

Tim Fulton 12:31Right

Barbara Fant 12:31... that's beautiful.

Tim Fulton 12:32So have you produced your own shows then as well?

Barbara Fant 12:35Um, produced? I don't, well, I put, I put on my own shows, yes.

Tim Fulton 12:39Yes.

Barbara Fant 12:39I've performed in, in spaces, yes, where I do my own shows. So a lot of times too, when you tour or you, you do the, um, slam circuit-

Tim Fulton 12:47Okay

Barbara Fant 12:47... so to speak, then there's spaces. People will bring you in for features.

Tim Fulton 12:51Okay.

Barbara Fant 12:52So, um, yeah, where have I been recently? Um, was in Cleveland-

Tim Fulton 12:56Okay

Barbara Fant 12:57... um, for a show at their slam venue. Um, I've done the Nuyorican in New York. I've done the Bowery in New York, so shows like that.

Tim Fulton 13:04And so are those competitions all, like, invites or people are competing in order to get to do these shows, and then you're just sort of, like, the, y- not sort of, you are the headliner?

Barbara Fant 13:17Yeah, so they're, so you're the feature.

Tim Fulton 13:18Okay.

Barbara Fant 13:18So they bring you in for, like, a feature.

Tim Fulton 13:19And I'm sorry. I guess maybe I'm misinterpreting.

Barbara Fant 13:21No, it's okay.

Tim Fulton 13:22All slams are competitions, right?

Barbara Fant 13:24Um, so slams are competitions.

Tim Fulton 13:26Right, okay.

Barbara Fant 13:26So a slam is, if you think of a slam, then you're competing for something.

Tim Fulton 13:30Got it.

Barbara Fant 13:30Um, however, like, when you compete, so every city pretty much has a slam venue, a qualified slam venue, right? So you compete locally to get to a national slam. One of the cool things about that is once you get to a national slam, you have exposure to the rest of the-

Tim Fulton 13:47All the others

Barbara Fant 13:47... the others.

Tim Fulton 13:48Right.

Barbara Fant 13:48The best of the best, right? So a lot of times they'll see you, and they'll be like, "Hey, can you come and feature at my show-

Tim Fulton 13:53Right

Barbara Fant 13:54... in November?" And then you get to come and be the feature for that evening of their open mic.

Tim Fulton 13:59And you get paid out pretty good for, you know, better than you would get paid for your local slam.

Barbara Fant 14:03Right.

Tim Fulton 14:04And is there money involved normally with, like, with the competition aspect of it?

Barbara Fant 14:08There is, but it's not enough to pay for how much you have to, you know-

Tim Fulton 14:13Well, but it's similar to, like, a band who's super passionate, and, like, that money's kinda just paying for gas to get there.

Barbara Fant 14:19Exactly.

Tim Fulton 14:19Okay.

Barbara Fant 14:19That's exactly what it pays for.

Tim Fulton 14:20Yeah.

Barbara Fant 14:21It's about the gas to get there, you know. That's, that's the-

Tim Fulton 14:22That is the extent of it.

Barbara Fant 14:24Yeah. Right. You can sell books and, and product if you have CDs or something like that too, so that's a, that's a cool thing.

Tim Fulton 14:30Okay.

Barbara Fant 14:30You have a new audience to sell to, so that's great.

Tim Fulton 14:32And do you have, I know you've done some published work, right?

Barbara Fant 14:36Yeah. Yep.

Tim Fulton 14:37And then you, so do you manage all that yourself?

Barbara Fant 14:41I do. I do. So I was, um, I won an award in 2010.

Tim Fulton 14:46Okay.

Barbara Fant 14:46Um, from the Cor- it was the Cora Craig Award for young authors off Penmanship Books out of New York City.

Tim Fulton 14:51Yes.

Barbara Fant 14:51So they gave me an award, and I published a book-

Tim Fulton 14:53Okay

Barbara Fant 14:54... uh, through them. And so they helped manage that for a while. Uh, because it's been so many years-

Tim Fulton 14:59Right

Barbara Fant 14:59... it kinda just slid off, and I kind of been doing my own thing.

Tim Fulton 15:02Okay.

Barbara Fant 15:02So I don't really sell that book anymore. It was in Gramercy Books in Bexley for a while.

Tim Fulton 15:06Okay.

Barbara Fant 15:06Um, but I did the feature there and sold out, and I haven't, I've just kinda put it at out of print.

Tim Fulton 15:11Okay.

Barbara Fant 15:11So I don't really use that anymore. Um, and then I came out with two chapbooks in 2017.

Tim Fulton 15:16Okay. And you mentioned, again, this was before we got on the microphone-

Barbara Fant 15:19Sure

Tim Fulton 15:19... but I had to ask you to spell it. It's, uh, C-H-A-P.

Barbara Fant 15:23Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 15:23As in chapter book.

Barbara Fant 15:25Yeah.

Tim Fulton 15:25Can you just sort of define what that is?

Barbara Fant 15:28Sure. So it, it's short for a chapter book.

Tim Fulton 15:30Okay.

Barbara Fant 15:30Um, but it's, it's actually like a, it's like a preview to a full collection.

Tim Fulton 15:34I would think of it e- almost as it's a chapter of a future book.

Barbara Fant 15:39That's a great way to think of it.

Tim Fulton 15:40Okay.

Barbara Fant 15:41Yeah. It's like a, I always think about it being a mixtape.

Tim Fulton 15:43Right.

Barbara Fant 15:43It's like a mixtape. It's for an emcee to put out a, a mixtape or a EP.

Tim Fulton 15:47Right.

Barbara Fant 15:47Right? Like, say you're putting out an EP.

Tim Fulton 15:48Well, and the comparison I made, because it's all, I can't imagine that it's, uh, professionally produced.

Barbara Fant 15:54Right.

Tim Fulton 15:55It's something you're putting together yourself.

Barbara Fant 15:56Exactly.

Tim Fulton 15:56So it's almost like a zine of poetry.

Barbara Fant 15:58Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 15:58Yeah.

Barbara Fant 15:59I mean, now because, um, especially with performance poetry, it's kind of blown up everywhere if you think about, like, Button Poetry or Slam Find.

Tim Fulton 16:07Mm-hmm.

Barbara Fant 16:07So there's a lot of different publishing companies that will do competitions for you to get a chapbook published.

Tim Fulton 16:13Really?

Barbara Fant 16:13So a lot of, yeah. So there's a lot of competitions out there where you can submit your work.

Tim Fulton 16:17Okay.

Barbara Fant 16:17And get, uh, a, a actual chapbook published, and they'll publish it for you, and it looks really, really nice.

Tim Fulton 16:23What's distribution look like for that? Like, I guess I just haven't come across it in, like, even alternative bookstores that, you know, finding that.

Barbara Fant 16:32Right. That's a good question. So typically, when you win a chapbook, um, cont- contest-

Tim Fulton 16:36Mm-hmm

Barbara Fant 16:37... there's not a lot of distribution behind it unless, um-

Tim Fulton 16:42Are they just sending you a couple of boxes of your book?

Barbara Fant 16:44You, yeah.

Tim Fulton 16:45Okay.

Barbara Fant 16:45You kinda win an award, basically.

Tim Fulton 16:47Got it.

Barbara Fant 16:47Right? And you get so many books, and usually that's outlined in, in the guidelines-

Tim Fulton 16:52Mm-hmm

Barbara Fant 16:52... when you are submitting to the competition. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 16:54And I'm sure you have the option to buy more if you want.

Barbara Fant 16:57Yeah.

Tim Fulton 16:57And then, you know.

Barbara Fant 16:57You can do, yeah, you could probably buy more if you want later. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 17:00Talk about your volunteer work with Transit Arts.

Barbara Fant 17:03Yeah.

Tim Fulton 17:03First of all, just what is Transit Arts?

Barbara Fant 17:04Yeah. So Transit Arts is a, it's a group. It's an artist collective-

Tim Fulton 17:09Mm-hmm

Barbara Fant 17:09... um, that is comprised of, um, visual artists, painters, sketchers, dancers, singers, poets, emcees, and we're housed out of Central Community House.

Tim Fulton 17:19Mm-hmm.

Barbara Fant 17:19So that's our base. And we provide free workshops to kids in the community.

Tim Fulton 17:25Okay.

Barbara Fant 17:25So, um, teenagers. And so what I do is I, um, teach a poetry workshop weekly.

Tim Fulton 17:30Oh, okay.

Barbara Fant 17:31Um, on Thursday nights for Transit Arts, for the kids at Transit Arts. So-

Tim Fulton 17:34And what's the age range of the kids that participate?

Barbara Fant 17:37Yeah. Typically, I think my youngest is 13. I think my oldest is, like, 22.

Tim Fulton 17:41Okay.

Barbara Fant 17:42So it's a good age range.

Tim Fulton 17:42Is there a limit there for what the, you know, I can't go, uh-

Barbara Fant 17:48There's not really a limit. I mean, I, I have actually had parents sit in.

Tim Fulton 17:53Okay.

Barbara Fant 17:53But typically it's for youth. We really want to be able to expose youth to the arts in a way they may not get in school.

Tim Fulton 18:01Okay. And how do they structure their programming? Is it sort of quarterly? Is it, you know-

Barbara Fant 18:07No

Tim Fulton 18:07... every a half, six months of a class?

Barbara Fant 18:10R- It's weekly.

Tim Fulton 18:11Okay.

Barbara Fant 18:11Yeah. So, so every week, um, there are workshops. So if you-

Tim Fulton 18:14I guess what I'm asking is, is when somebody start ... 'Cause it tries to build on itself, right? Like, "Hey, last week we did this, and now we're gonna take that same work and we're gonna edit it."

Barbara Fant 18:23Yeah.

Tim Fulton 18:24Or-

Barbara Fant 18:24Yeah. And we try to, but there's no actual, like, curriculum outlined because we get new kids all the time.

Tim Fulton 18:30Okay. Awesome.

Barbara Fant 18:31So especially, like, on Thursdays, that's our open studio.

Tim Fulton 18:34Okay.

Barbara Fant 18:34So we have kids drop in all the time. They have friends who've never been to a space like that who wanna come.

Tim Fulton 18:39Okay.

Barbara Fant 18:40And they drop in, and you just start working on something. And we're always there, so we can work with the kids at any time. Um, it- I structured mine a little bit more this past year-

Tim Fulton 18:51Okay

Barbara Fant 18:51... because I wanted the kids to produce something.

Tim Fulton 18:53Okay.

Barbara Fant 18:53So they are coming out with a chapbook.

Tim Fulton 18:55Great.

Barbara Fant 18:55Um, it's gonna be released this Thursday.

Tim Fulton 18:57That's great.

Barbara Fant 18:58Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 18:58That's great. And where, where would folks be able to pick that up at, if, you know, if by chance this episode doesn't come out before this Thursday ?

Barbara Fant 19:07Yeah. They, so they can reach us at transitarts.com.

Tim Fulton 19:10Okay. Cool.

Barbara Fant 19:10Yeah. Or they can contact me personally. That's-

Tim Fulton 19:13Great

Barbara Fant 19:13... cool too. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 19:14I'll make sure your website and everything's in the show notes for the episode.

Barbara Fant 19:17Yes. Thank you.

Tim Fulton 19:17Um, so how many f- kids are you dealing with every week, every Thursday?

Barbara Fant 19:21Yeah. So, um, my class is probably anywhere between five to eight.

Tim Fulton 19:27Okay.

Barbara Fant 19:28Um, so not a huge class, and it fluctuates. It's up and down. So-

Tim Fulton 19:32And is it free for-

Barbara Fant 19:33It's free

Tim Fulton 19:33... youth to participate?

Barbara Fant 19:35That's ... It's free. Yep. It's free for them to participate. Yep.

Tim Fulton 19:37All the classes there?

Barbara Fant 19:38All the classes are free for all the kids to participate.

Tim Fulton 19:41That's awesome.

Barbara Fant 19:42Yeah.

Tim Fulton 19:42That's awesome.

Barbara Fant 19:42It's pretty cool, right?

Tim Fulton 19:44And they refer to you there as a, as a master artist.

Barbara Fant 19:47This is true. This is what they call me, a master artist. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 19:50How do you feel about that title?

Barbara Fant 19:52I think it's funny.

Tim Fulton 19:53Okay.

Barbara Fant 19:53'Cause I don't really consider myself a master artist. I feel like I'm still trying to master my craft, you know, so.

Tim Fulton 19:57Well, you know, you've got at least one degree. You've got, uh, excuse me, you have two degrees.

Barbara Fant 20:03I do.

Tim Fulton 20:03Uh, and you're also studying for your MFA in poetry.

Barbara Fant 20:05I am.

Tim Fulton 20:06That's awesome.

Barbara Fant 20:07I am. Thank you.

Tim Fulton 20:08Coming up December 1st, you're performing an event, uh, A Jazzy Christmas.

Barbara Fant 20:13Yes.

Tim Fulton 20:13Can you talk about what you'll ... Talk about the event as a whole, and then what you're gonna be doing there.

Barbara Fant 20:18Sure. So the event, um, it's an annual event. And, um, basically a woman named Shelley Stewart puts this event on to kind of, um, just celebrate the holidays and, and invite people to kinda join in the festivities. And so she has live performances. So I'm one of many performances that will take place. There's several bands that will be there in addition to singers. And I will be doing a poem. Um, and I have a dancer who's going to accompany me. Her name is Laurie Lindsey.

Tim Fulton 20:46Mm-hmm.

Barbara Fant 20:46And she's incredible. She was just in, um, the Harlem Renaissance, um, pr- production that just took place at the Lincoln Theatre-

Tim Fulton 20:53Awesome

Barbara Fant 20:54... last weekend. And so she will be, um, accompanying me. And so-

Tim Fulton 20:57Is-

Barbara Fant 20:57... she will dance while I do a poem.

Tim Fulton 20:59Is it fair to say she'll be interpreting?

Barbara Fant 21:02It is fair to say that she will be interpreting. Yes.

Tim Fulton 21:04Okay.

Barbara Fant 21:05Uh, yeah. Absolutely. She will be in- um, interpreting-

Tim Fulton 21:08Okay

Barbara Fant 21:09... what I'm saying. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 21:10But not, uh ... You guys will rehearse ahead of time-

Barbara Fant 21:13Yeah

Tim Fulton 21:13... and sort of like, oh, maybe I ... You know, as you're reading your poem you take a little bit more of a pause in order to ... You spit out your words quick. It's-

Barbara Fant 21:22That, that poem was a little fast. So yeah.

Tim Fulton 21:24Yeah.

Barbara Fant 21:24I do, yeah, I guess I do.

Tim Fulton 21:26Gotcha. And then you're also doing, uh, coming up in January, a series of workshops where folks ... Uh, talk through that. Is that both writing and performance? How will, how's that gonna work?

Barbara Fant 21:37Sure. So it will be both. Um, so that is a, a series of workshops that will take place in ... It will lead up to a community-wide slam-

Tim Fulton 21:46Okay

Barbara Fant 21:46... that CAPA is actually putting together. So they're actually bringing Hamilton here, as you may know.

Tim Fulton 21:52I, I have heard.

Barbara Fant 21:52You have heard. Yes. And so we will be giving away tickets to the winner of a community-wide slam.

Tim Fulton 21:58Okay.

Barbara Fant 21:59Uh, and so we're really excited about that. So the workshops, um, I will be doing them along with Will Evans-

Tim Fulton 22:04Mm-hmm

Barbara Fant 22:05... who has been a coach and mentor, uh, to me for years, and a good friend. And we'll be doing the, the workshops together. And so they'll basically, basically, if you wanna compete in the slam, you have to choose a theme from Hamilton-

Tim Fulton 22:18Okay

Barbara Fant 22:18... um, that em- that has emerged from Hamilton. And you have to write an original piece and perform it, uh, for the day of the slam.

Tim Fulton 22:24Okay.

Barbara Fant 22:25And so the workshops are really geared towards helping people get, um, interested, involved, and then, um, to help them feel more comfortable-

Tim Fulton 22:33Okay

Barbara Fant 22:33... with what it is that they'll be presenting. So if they've never done a slam before, they can say like, "Hey, I need help with this."

Tim Fulton 22:39So but when they're showing up, they've got at least a draft of something.

Barbara Fant 22:43Hopefully. But even-

Tim Fulton 22:44Okay

Barbara Fant 22:44... if they don't, we will do some writing exercises.

Tim Fulton 22:47Good.

Barbara Fant 22:47Uh, and so, so it will be writing and performance.

Tim Fulton 22:50Okay.

Barbara Fant 22:51We probably won't even get into performance until the later workshops.

Tim Fulton 22:53Right.

Barbara Fant 22:54If people wanna come, and then once they have s- multiple drafts, right, they wanna practice. And, um, we probably won't do that till later in January.

Tim Fulton 23:00Gotcha.

Barbara Fant 23:01Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 23:01And this is something that folks would need to sign up for as well.

Barbara Fant 23:03They would. Yep.

Tim Fulton 23:04Great.

Barbara Fant 23:04And so we'll have a sign-up, and we'll be doing promo soon.

Tim Fulton 23:07Great.

Barbara Fant 23:07Yep.

Tim Fulton 23:08And you can look for a link to those sign-ups in the show notes as well.

Barbara Fant 23:11Yes.

Tim Fulton 23:12You talked before about your subject matter. A lot of it right now is, you know, you, your experience as a woman of color. But you came from, and it's been published certainly in the Columbus Live, you know, the loss of your mother, the, the illness of your father.

Barbara Fant 23:27Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 23:28A couple of pretty bad relationships, it seems.

Barbara Fant 23:32Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 23:32Choose three points in time. And sort of talk about your evolution as an artist, and sort of ... 'Cause you've stepped back, right?

Barbara Fant 23:42I did.

Tim Fulton 23:42Like, you stepped back. Was that just f- that was for seminary, right?

Barbara Fant 23:46Yeah. I stepped back from slam-

Tim Fulton 23:49Okay

Barbara Fant 23:49... for a while. So I performed, but I slep- I stepped back from slam.

Tim Fulton 23:53And why is that?

Barbara Fant 23:54Um, I think I needed a break.

Tim Fulton 23:56Yeah.

Barbara Fant 23:57I think I was burnt out. Um, I was competing a lot, and I was doing every competition.

Tim Fulton 24:03Well, I imagine still holding down a day job.

Barbara Fant 24:06Yeah, at that time I was in school.

Tim Fulton 24:08Okay.

Barbara Fant 24:09Um, at that time I was still in school. But I was doing field study, and I w- yeah, I was in a bad situation.

Tim Fulton 24:14Okay.

Barbara Fant 24:15And, um, I needed to take time away-

Tim Fulton 24:18Yeah

Barbara Fant 24:18... from, from competing. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 24:19Okay.

Barbara Fant 24:20So I did. I took time away.

Tim Fulton 24:22How has the, the writing and the subject matter changed over time? I know what you're focused-

Barbara Fant 24:26Yeah

Tim Fulton 24:26... on right now.

Barbara Fant 24:27Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 24:28Um-

Barbara Fant 24:30Yeah

Tim Fulton 24:30... I guess the, the, the outlet here, and the way I want you to think about it is-

Barbara Fant 24:35Yeah

Tim Fulton 24:35... for folks who could possibly use poetry and, or performance, or... But I'm thinking specifically just of poetry, um, to process and-

Barbara Fant 24:48Mm

Tim Fulton 24:50... as part of their recovery.

Barbara Fant 24:51Yeah.

Tim Fulton 24:52Is it just explicit in that you're focused specifically on like, "This is what happened to me," or is it much more choosing metaphors and just like enjoying the process? Like, can you do it both ways?

Barbara Fant 25:05Yeah. Absolutely. I, and I think you can. I think you can do it both ways. Um, I, I think for me, what I'm writing about right now is, um, I am th- I'm writing about a lot of things that happened in my childhood that were traumatic-

Tim Fulton 25:22Okay

Barbara Fant 25:22... that I didn't realize were traumatic.

Tim Fulton 25:25Okay.

Barbara Fant 25:25So a lot of things have come back to me in like flashbacks.

Tim Fulton 25:28Mm-hmm.

Barbara Fant 25:29Right? And so I'm not... I'm realizing that those things affected me in ways that I didn't know that they affected me.

Tim Fulton 25:36Yeah.

Barbara Fant 25:36So I'm writing a lot about that. I'm writing about, um, the land that I lived in in Youngstown.

Tim Fulton 25:42Okay.

Barbara Fant 25:42And what that looked like and felt like, and what it even feels like now-

Tim Fulton 25:47Mm-hmm

Barbara Fant 25:47... being there. So.

Tim Fulton 25:50How much of it... Because a lot of this is super personal, right?

Barbara Fant 25:53Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 25:54I gotta assume that there's stuff that you write, and you write it for yourself.

Barbara Fant 25:58Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 25:59And it's not for sharing.

Barbara Fant 26:01Mm. Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 26:02Or do you as an artist sort of say, "It's important to me to put this out"?

Barbara Fant 26:08Mm.

Tim Fulton 26:08Even if, you know... I'm curious about sort of where you draw that line.

Barbara Fant 26:13Yeah. I think because I grew up in slam space-

Tim Fulton 26:19Okay

Barbara Fant 26:19... where you ... Where there's a lot of vulnerability.

Tim Fulton 26:24Right.

Barbara Fant 26:24There's no really, um, pulling back from that.

Tim Fulton 26:27Okay.

Barbara Fant 26:27There's a lot of vulnerability. There's a lot of openness. Um, I know sometimes people go into slams and they're like, "Oh my goodness, I just feel like I was just in a therapy session," you know, because that's-

Tim Fulton 26:37Yeah

Barbara Fant 26:37... how it is. It's raw. Um, and I think it, it got popular for being that.

Tim Fulton 26:43Okay.

Barbara Fant 26:43And because I grew up in that, that's where my writing comes from. That's something that I found, I found like sanctuary in that. So, um, for me, when I write, I write. And typically, the other part of me writing that is getting it out.

Tim Fulton 26:59Okay.

Barbara Fant 27:00So it's important for me to share. So there's not a lot, honestly. There's some things that I write that I don't share.

Tim Fulton 27:06Right.

Barbara Fant 27:06But it's not a lot.

Tim Fulton 27:08Yeah.

Barbara Fant 27:08Most- mostly everything I share, I, I try to push out. Because I do know, too, I believe in the fact that I have a story.

Tim Fulton 27:15Right.

Barbara Fant 27:15And, you know, sometimes I, I've been, um, called the dark writer. Like I write a, about a lot of darkness and trauma.

Tim Fulton 27:23Well, there's been a lot of darkness and trauma.

Barbara Fant 27:25There's been... Exactly, right?

Tim Fulton 27:26Right.

Barbara Fant 27:26That's what I tell people. There's been a lot of darkness and trauma. But then too, people are like, "Well, where's the, where's the, you know, the, the light at the end of the tunnel?" And I say, "I am it." I'm the living testament.

Tim Fulton 27:38Okay.

Barbara Fant 27:39You know, I survived it. I'm here.

Tim Fulton 27:41Yeah.

Barbara Fant 27:41And I'm here to tell my story.

Tim Fulton 27:43Right.

Barbara Fant 27:43And so there's the power in that.

Tim Fulton 27:45Is there... I guess someone would think like, "Oh, you get up and do that poem, and then you have to answer all these questions."

Barbara Fant 27:51Mm.

Tim Fulton 27:52You know? And does that, is... Does that happen? Or is it sort of, "Well, they did that on stage, and this is different now"?

Barbara Fant 28:00Um, so the beautiful thing about slam is you don't answer questions.

Tim Fulton 28:04Okay.

Barbara Fant 28:04You gotta get on stage, and you get off. Um, but it, you know, sometimes people-

Tim Fulton 28:08Well, but I imagine in the venue you're walking just right up back out into the audience, right?

Barbara Fant 28:12Yeah. You are. You are.

Tim Fulton 28:12These are, these are coffee shops and bars.

Barbara Fant 28:14Yes.

Tim Fulton 28:14And like this is not like, "Oh, I exit stage left."

Barbara Fant 28:17That's true. That's true. So do I get asked questions after?

Tim Fulton 28:21Well, or is it almost... I guess what I'm asking, is it, is it a culture where that's just not appropriate? Like, "Hey, that was their, you know, performance." Or is it just totally open?

Barbara Fant 28:32Sometimes.

Tim Fulton 28:32Okay.

Barbara Fant 28:32Sometimes people will ask, especially if they know you, you know? Um-

Tim Fulton 28:36"Oh, I didn't know that, Barbara."

Barbara Fant 28:37Yeah. "I didn't know that, Barbara." Or a lot of times people just hug you, you know?

Tim Fulton 28:42Yeah.

Barbara Fant 28:42I always get... After my shows, people always are like, "Can I hug you?" And I'm like, "Yes. I promise I'm okay." You know?

Tim Fulton 28:48Yeah.

Barbara Fant 28:49"But yes, you can hug me." Um, and sometimes people will ask, and, and sometimes they won't. But I think, um, what I hope is that people feel connected to-

Tim Fulton 28:58Yeah

Barbara Fant 28:59... at least one piece of it. And I think that's the power in it, is that people find themselves in at least a piece of your story, even if it's not the whole thing.

Tim Fulton 29:06Well, and one thing that you didn't say just now is I imagine a lot of people share-

Barbara Fant 29:11Yes

Tim Fulton 29:11... with you then, too.

Barbara Fant 29:12They do.

Tim Fulton 29:13Yeah.

Barbara Fant 29:13They do. Um, yeah. And I'm, and I'm open about the fact that I've, I've, I've gone through domestic violence situations.

Tim Fulton 29:20Yeah.

Barbara Fant 29:20And especially a lot of my work that came out in 2017-

Tim Fulton 29:24Okay

Barbara Fant 29:25... was about that. And I've gotten a flood of inboxes and calls and messages of women who've gone through very similar experiences.

Tim Fulton 29:35How do you... Do you keep a web presence that's like just yours?

Barbara Fant 29:39Just a social media.

Tim Fulton 29:41Gotcha.

Barbara Fant 29:41I don't... I, I have a WordPress, but I don't utilize it a lot.

Tim Fulton 29:44Okay.

Barbara Fant 29:45I'm working on a website, so it should be up, um, by the end of the month.

Tim Fulton 29:48Great.

Barbara Fant 29:49Yeah.

Tim Fulton 29:49Well, we'll make sure we share it when it's up.

Barbara Fant 29:51Yeah.

Tim Fulton 29:51Let them know.

Barbara Fant 29:51Yeah, yeah. It should be, yeah, I'm almost done, so.

Tim Fulton 29:54Great.

Barbara Fant 29:54Yep.

Tim Fulton 29:55Can I invite you to share one more poem for us?

Barbara Fant 29:57You can. Do I do a short one or do I do a long one?

Tim Fulton 29:59Do a little longer one.

Barbara Fant 30:00A longer one?

Tim Fulton 30:00Yeah.

Barbara Fant 30:01Okay. I'll do some- I'll do this piece. This is House of Dust. You will build a house out of dust until you realize that the home is within you.

Barbara Fant 30:11When I realized I was being swallowed, it was too late. I saw the bullet swallow the wind and remembered how the clouds held up the sky. Yay. Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I'm reminded that it's just that, a shadow. That these dry bones can still rise on tomorrow. Told death, you thought you had all of me. How I buried my mother at 15. Watched my brother take his last breath at 17. Visited my father on psych floors of hospital rooms for years. Then I ran into houses of men disguised like homes. You will build a house out of dust until you realize that the home is within you. When you pain out loud and there's a lump in your throat the size of a whale stuck inside the whale, my body drifts and floats around me. Tell Jonah how I swallowed myself in the belly of my own fear and woke up swimming in the reality of my insecurity scales. Now all I see is shadow of myself. I lived broken girl and made all the wrong choices. How I moved out of my house into her house to his house into hotels and couches from home to home to house to house to where is my home? Is there a home etched inside a staccato for me? And oh Lord, I want to forgive the man who raised his hand. Forgive the broken black boy who had his back broken so he broke mine. Failed to see I was rib so he broke my spine. Forgive the black boy broken whose daddy loved him hollow so he hunts for housewives made of sheepskin and tongueless mouths. Father forgive him for he knows not what he does. And Father forgive me for I knew not who I was. I flooded my bones with suicide and every demon who whispered into my eardrums staccatoed opinions that almost swallowed me whole. How I learned how to build a house out of dust until I realized that the home was within me. Then one day I stopped doing all the things I thought I had to do. Stopped being all the things I thought I needed to be and remembered how I could write myself out of my own skin. My mouth a boundary worth breaking. Remembered what it was like to have poems written into me. To write myself into a poem so thick it spills salvation. To cough so many poems from my lungs that it creates sanctuary. And yay, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will no longer fear myself. How this life of mine was disrupted but not over. And the light in me is the light in whom I serve and what a sacrifice. To go to every dark place and have to write life back into your life just for someone else to breathe. And oh Jonah, I know you ran from what would carve you holy for you didn't understand that the calling will always outrun you. My chaos was birthed in every ounce of normalcy I thought I needed to be. My freedom was found in just being me. So here is where I throw up my hands and tell myself to dance until every piece of devil that was burned within me falls into landing. On the day my soul was faceless, I was ocean. On the day I was ocean, I found my face. When the neighbors told me of my house, I said my house of dust blew up in flames while I was inside. But I survived. Told them of the shadows. Showed them my scales. That I was searching for a house through all of this dust until I learned how to find the home within myself.

Tim Fulton 33:16Thank you.

Barbara Fant 33:17Thank you.

Tim Fulton 33:21If folks want to check out performance poetry in Columbus, what are good ways to see it? What are venues people can check out?

Barbara Fant 33:28Yeah, absolutely. So Writing Wrongs Poetry, which is a slam venue that I grew up in, we are every other week.

Tim Fulton 33:37Okay.

Barbara Fant 33:38On Tuesdays at Mikey's Late Night Slice.

Tim Fulton 33:41The one on 3rd?

Barbara Fant 33:42Yes.

Tim Fulton 33:42Or excuse me, 4th.

Barbara Fant 33:434th.

Tim Fulton 33:434th. South 4th.

Barbara Fant 33:44Yep. Mikey's Late Night Slice on 4th. So that's every other week, every other Tuesday. Wednesday nights, Cafe Kerouac is every week. It's actually Writer's Block Poetry. It's housed at Cafe Kerouac.

Tim Fulton 33:57Yeah.

Barbara Fant 33:57Every Wednesday. Thursday nights, there used to be a spot. There isn't anymore. Monday nights, there is the poetry forum.

Tim Fulton 34:06Okay.

Barbara Fant 34:07It's at Bossy Girls Pinup Joint. And there are a few different quarterly shows. So you have Paging Columbus that's once a month. You have 7th Draft Poetry Slam, which is once a month. And both of those are housed at $2 Radio.

Tim Fulton 34:25Okay.

Barbara Fant 34:26And I'm trying to think what else is going on. I feel like I'm missing something, but definitely those. Yes.

Tim Fulton 34:34Well, and yeah, we'll link to those resources and more.

Barbara Fant 34:37Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Fulton 34:38Great. Barbara, thank you so much for your time.

Barbara Fant 34:40Thank you.

Tim Fulton 34:49Thank you for listening to The Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite poet. If you're interested in sponsoring The Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info at theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.