Columbus Open Studio & Stage

Tim Fulton 0:11Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, on the occasion of the upcoming Columbus Open Studio and Stage, I sat down with organizer and artist Stephanie Ronde to talk about this opportunity to see behind the curtain of local artists and how they work. We also talk about our experience organizing events like this and the life cycle of artist groups. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Stephanie Ronde. Stephanie, how are you?

Stephanie Ronde 1:39I'm good. How are you?

Tim Fulton 1:40I'm doing well. Stephanie's an artist. We'll link in the show notes to Stephanie's past interview with us where she talked a lot about her work and her work as a street artist and her work with the Carnegie Gallery at the main library. I'm sure we'll get into, uh, what I, in my own head, refer to as her micro gallery, S Dot Gallery-

Stephanie Ronde 2:01Yeah

Tim Fulton 2:01... uh, which is in her home, which you can find online. Uh, we're here today on the occasion of the upcoming, uh, Columbus Open Studio and Stage. Um, Stephanie, tell us how Columbus Open Studio and Stage got started and what it is.

Stephanie Ronde 2:16Sure. Okay. Um, well, Columbus Open Studio and Stage actually started as Columbus Open Studio.

Tim Fulton 2:23Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 2:24Uh, about 11 years ago, my husband and I were thinking of relocating to Portland.

Tim Fulton 2:28Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 2:29And, uh, they had a tour there. And so when I was researching, you know, the art scene there, I thought, "Wow, this is, this is brilliant." Um, so I kinda put the seed in my pocket, and we decided to stay in Columbus, and so it's been there for about, you know, 10 years. Um, and then I was lucky enough to meet three amazing colleagues, Amy Liebran, Cathy Bell Smith, and Lisa McLimet.

Tim Fulton 2:53Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 2:54And we started talking about putting together a open studio concept for Columbus. Um, we thought that we would give it, like, a trial run-

Tim Fulton 3:03Okay

Stephanie Ronde 3:03... in a collective that we were, uh, steers of called Creative Arts of Women, or CAW.

Tim Fulton 3:08Uh-huh.

Stephanie Ronde 3:09Um, and there didn't seem to be as much enthusiasm as we had hoped, and so we figured, "Well, maybe this is bigger than us. Maybe we're ready for the big leagues. Maybe we can do this citywide." Um, so we approached the Greater Columbus Arts Council to see if they would be interested in being our partners.

Tim Fulton 3:25Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 3:26Um, and through the Art Makes Columbus campaign-

Tim Fulton 3:29Yeah

Stephanie Ronde 3:29... they funded, they funded the event, which then became Columbus Open Studio and Stage. So they added the stage component, which was brilliant because other cities don't do that.

Tim Fulton 3:40And so that's an opportunity to include the performing arts, but specifically the opportunity, frankly, for people to see backstage, to look at, you know, a scene shop, to look at a costume shop, to look at... A lot of people have never seen a fly system, the thing, you know, that makes the scenery come in and out or-

Stephanie Ronde 3:57Oh, is that what that's called?

Tim Fulton 3:58It's called, it's called a fly system. Yeah.

Stephanie Ronde 4:00Sweet.

Tim Fulton 4:01So you had been organizing it for the first two years. Sort of talk about what it, it's grown to include the stage. Talk about what the feedback you've gotten, what sort of people have experienced. It's just over the course of one day?

Stephanie Ronde 4:15One, one weekend.

Tim Fulton 4:16It's one weekend.

Stephanie Ronde 4:16Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 4:17Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 4:17It's one weekend. Um, so right from the start when we partnered with the Greater Columbus Arts Council, then we became a team of six.

Tim Fulton 4:24Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 4:25Um, the four of us, and we ran the artist component of it, and then the GCAC ran the stage component, and then together we ran the marketing for the event.

Tim Fulton 4:34Gotcha.

Stephanie Ronde 4:34The thing that we wanted to do, uh, the four of us specifically were interested in doing, is a lot of times people think that, um, artists and creatives are kind of these magical unicorns.

Tim Fulton 4:45Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 4:45And we wanted to show that, you know, we all work 9:00 to 5:00, possibly 12, 14-hour days even-

Tim Fulton 4:52Right

Stephanie Ronde 4:52... to make the work, and that it's not really a magical thing. It's a lot of hard work. Um, so the idea behind opening artist studios and making it more educational rather than, you know, showing off artwork like you would at an exhibit-

Tim Fulton 5:06Mm-hmm

Stephanie Ronde 5:06... but showing their actual process would help the conversation between artist and art appreciator.

Tim Fulton 5:13Well, and you're making a financial argument to an extent, or a l- let's say, let's call it a labor argument, that, uh, I think a lot of times people look at a piece of art or I think a lot about people who solicit free photography for events-

Stephanie Ronde 5:29Yeah

Tim Fulton 5:29... uh, because they don't realize the amount. It's like, "Oh, that guy's got a camera." It's, no, he's put years and years of training in. There's post-production work that you have to do. With a more w- what I think of as a more traditional visual artist, someone who's, uh, painting or drawing or sculpting, there's a lot of work that goes into it. There's, um, first of all, the training. There's, you know, planning out a piece. There's maintaining a space. We talked in our last podcast about how- ... planful you have to be about when you work, how you work, blocking out your, your time.

Stephanie Ronde 6:07Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 6:07And so I imagine getting people to, to see those studios sort of gives them an idea, or a better idea at least, that these hours put in, yes, there's a talent there, but there's also a skill, and, uh, there's hours of work and labor, and this person should be, frankly, fairly compensated for their time.

Stephanie Ronde 6:27Exactly, yeah.

Tim Fulton 6:28Quick side note. It's important to point out that one of GC- I feel one of GCAC's core points that they work from is they're n- if you sort of work with them to get an artist to do something, that artist is going to get paid.

Stephanie Ronde 6:43Exactly.

Tim Fulton 6:44Even if that's an artist that's coming in and talking at a panel discussion.

Stephanie Ronde 6:47Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 6:47That artist is gonna get an honorarium for, for their time, 'cause that's important to them.

Stephanie Ronde 6:53I agree, and I try to do that in anything I organize even, is, you know, I don't wanna ask an artist to do anything for free, because I know what that feels like.

Tim Fulton 7:02Right.

Stephanie Ronde 7:03Um, so yeah, and-

Tim Fulton 7:03Well, 'cause you almost feel obligated too, right?

Stephanie Ronde 7:06It's hard to say no.

Tim Fulton 7:07Right.

Stephanie Ronde 7:07Especially when it's coming from, you know, somebody that may be a colleague-

Tim Fulton 7:11Mm-hmm

Stephanie Ronde 7:11... but also a dear, dear friend. So I don't wanna put my colleagues in a situation where they c- feel like they can't-

Tim Fulton 7:18Right

Stephanie Ronde 7:19... say no.

Tim Fulton 7:19Well, and exposure doesn't pay the bills, right?

Stephanie Ronde 7:21Exactly.

Tim Fulton 7:22Yeah.

Stephanie Ronde 7:22And usually, you know, to that point of how much time it takes, when people say, "Well, how much time did it take you to make this painting?" I say, "My whole life." You know?

Tim Fulton 7:30Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 7:31And I, I encourage all creatives to say that, and educate on why it's taken m- me my whole life to get to, you know-

Tim Fulton 7:38Right

Stephanie Ronde 7:39... August 20th, 2018 or whatever it is.

Tim Fulton 7:42Right.

Stephanie Ronde 7:43Yeah.

Tim Fulton 7:43Hmm. And before we go any further, what's the, what are the dates for Columbus Open Studio & Stage?

Stephanie Ronde 7:49The tour weekend is September 29th and 30th, and we are open from 11:00 to 5:00 at all locations.

Tim Fulton 7:56Gotcha. And so talk about... So it's citywide.

Stephanie Ronde 7:58Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 7:58These are, the, it's not like people are relocating their studios or anything.

Stephanie Ronde 8:02No, no.

Tim Fulton 8:03Uh, what are some of the studios that people can check out?

Stephanie Ronde 8:06So I think one of the exciting things about Columbus Open Studio & Stage is these, uh, almost all of these are home studios.

Tim Fulton 8:12Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 8:12So not only are you getting an opportunity, in most cases, to see where they work, but to see where they live as well.

Tim Fulton 8:19Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 8:19Um, so we do have a couple returning artists, but we also have some new artists that, uh, I'm pretty excited about, and it's the one thing that makes me sad about not being able to go on the tour instead of be on the tour.

Tim Fulton 8:31'Cause you're hosting this year at your home.

Stephanie Ronde 8:33Exactly, yes.

Tim Fulton 8:33Gotcha.

Stephanie Ronde 8:33I'm hosting.

Tim Fulton 8:35Um, so talk about, can you talk about some of those artists specifically?

Stephanie Ronde 8:38Yeah, so I would say, um, uh, Brian Christopher Moss is one-

Tim Fulton 8:43Mm-hmm

Stephanie Ronde 8:43... that I would, you know, love to go visit. Maybe he'll invite me for a sneak peek. Uh, Ha- Hannah Hara would be another good studio to visit. Um, and then April Tsunami's my girl, so I gotta shout out to her.

Tim Fulton 8:56Absolutely. And are any of the, uh, like does 400 West Rich have like multiple studios open? So if you wanna like... Yeah, you can go and do the tour, but also if you want, I don't know, more of a communal experience but, like, check some boxes off the list at the same time, are there more places other than 400?

Stephanie Ronde 9:15Um, well, 400's not on this year.

Tim Fulton 9:17Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 9:17So a lot of the feedback that we got from tour-goers as well as the artists, um, was that they were more interested in the, in the home studios.

Tim Fulton 9:25Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 9:26Um, so the GCAC decided this year to pick one large studio, so the studio this, this year is Brickbox Studios in Grandview.

Tim Fulton 9:34Okay, great.

Stephanie Ronde 9:35Um, and the map is created in a way of areas so that you can, you know, kind of plan, "Oh, you know, this day I'm gonna go north and-

Tim Fulton 9:42Mm-hmm

Stephanie Ronde 9:43... east, and this day I'm gonna go south to west," and so it's, the map is well-planned to help you, you know, navigate the-

Tim Fulton 9:51Cool

Stephanie Ronde 9:51... studios.

Tim Fulton 9:52Well, and given the number of artists, it's pro- it's, it's possible, but probably not feasible for folks to go and experience- ... every single one, right?

Stephanie Ronde 10:02Well, the-

Tim Fulton 10:02It's that much

Stephanie Ronde 10:03... the first year we did it we had 26 artists, and Tom Katzenmeyer made it to every single one.

Tim Fulton 10:08Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 10:08Which was very impressive. Um, the second year we had 50 artists.

Tim Fulton 10:13Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 10:14And more of the feedback that we got was that was just too many, because people did wanna try to get to as many as possible.

Tim Fulton 10:20Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 10:20So, um, this year the GCAC pared it back to 31 artists.

Tim Fulton 10:25Gotcha.

Stephanie Ronde 10:25So the idea isn't to try to go to every single studio, but I guess it could be done if you're Tom.

Tim Fulton 10:31Yeah. There's, there's Tom's, uh, shout-out for the episode.

Stephanie Ronde 10:35Hey, Tom.

Tim Fulton 10:36And so you, uh, in your capacity as the curator and director of the Carnegie Gallery-

Stephanie Ronde 10:41Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 10:41... at the main library, you've actually put up sort of a, we'll call it a preview exhibition of works. Is every artist represented there?

Stephanie Ronde 10:51Y- yes, all but three.

Tim Fulton 10:52Okay. Um, so you can go and check out the exhibition at the main library to sort of get a taste of, which seems to be a pretty good sampling of the artists of Columb- I mean, varying, we'll say levels of professional development.

Stephanie Ronde 11:07Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 11:08To different mediums to check out. That'll be up al- almost the entire month of September ahead of Columbus Open Studio.

Stephanie Ronde 11:16Correct, yes. It will be up the month ahead of time so that people can come and, you know, really look at the artwork and make decisions as to who they're interested in visiting on the tour.

Tim Fulton 11:26Oh, that's smart.

Stephanie Ronde 11:26Yeah.

Tim Fulton 11:26Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 11:27Yeah.

Tim Fulton 11:27Good. Now sort of talk about, we talked a lot when we spoke last time about sort of how you work as an artist, about blocking out time, about, um, sort of, uh, basically assigning priorities to things. I wanna talk, given that your capacity for, uh, your capacity as an organizer, founding organizer of Columbus Open Studio & Stage, I wanna talk about basically working with other people and sort of how that process has gone. I know that I Work within a couple of different groups, plan some events, and there are a lot of opinions about sort of how that stuff goes. Let's talk about Columbus Open Studio & Stage specifically. You guys sorta, you guys kept it to that core group, that core group of six.

Stephanie Ronde 12:15Yes, we did.

Tim Fulton 12:16You, you organizers, and then the two, uh, the two folks from GCAC.

Stephanie Ronde 12:20Correct.

Tim Fulton 12:21Can you talk about just generally some of your, some frustrations that maybe or maybe not we talked about before we got- ... uh, got behind these microphones? I know, so what I've experienced in the past is you get a core group of folks together, and then you sort of, there's this, we'll call it curation by committee-

Stephanie Ronde 12:41Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 12:41... that you then have to present, like, "Hey, we're gonna do this thing," or, "Hey, this thing is literally next week," and the committee says, "Well, why aren't you doing this?" Or, "Why, why isn't this aspect of it happening?"

Stephanie Ronde 12:53Right.

Tim Fulton 12:53Um, and it's not like you folks have been desi- you know, it's not like you folks have been planning and organizing in a vacuum, but it seems like a lot of people then come out of the woodwork to bring up things that are nice to have.

Stephanie Ronde 13:07Right.

Tim Fulton 13:08How do you, have you found a good way to address that?

Stephanie Ronde 13:13Well, you know, I just, um, ordered new business cards yesterday for Columbus Open Studio & Stage, and I was-

Tim Fulton 13:20Okay

Stephanie Ronde 13:20... very tempted to put, um, cat herder-

Tim Fulton 13:23Uh-huh

Stephanie Ronde 13:23... as one of my titles.

Tim Fulton 13:24Yeah.

Stephanie Ronde 13:25Um, and I think that's probably the best way I can explain the experience I've had, um, organizing things or being part of things being organized-

Tim Fulton 13:34Mm-hmm

Stephanie Ronde 13:34... is, um, you know, every cat is different, and every cat wants to go a different way, and-

Tim Fulton 13:39And no cat is bad.

Stephanie Ronde 13:40Uh, no.

Tim Fulton 13:41Right

Stephanie Ronde 13:41No cat is bad. I mean, they ha- they have their natural instincts, right?

Tim Fulton 13:45Right.

Stephanie Ronde 13:45And so, um, but you as an organizer have to figure out how to work with all those cats, but at the same time, get all the things accomplished that need to be done.

Tim Fulton 13:57Right. So let's talk about it actually, yeah, in that reverse way. When you're trying to organize, you know, a herd of cats- ... whether that be a, a group of artists or, um, a music festival or something like that, making sure, one, everybody's just on the same page, everybody sort of knows what the bare minimum expectation is. "Hey, yes, you're gonna be opening up your house. That means that you need to be physically present. Uh, you don't necessarily have to offer snacks."

Stephanie Ronde 14:24Right.

Tim Fulton 14:24Or do they have to offer snacks?

Stephanie Ronde 14:25No, they don't have to.

Tim Fulton 14:26Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 14:26No.

Tim Fulton 14:27Good to know. Um, and sort of how do you sort of ma- this isn't about managing expectations, but managing frustrations for yourself, and like, hey, if y- It's like a teacher who puts out a syllabus at the beginning of a quarter, and you get a question three weeks in about something that's already in the syllabus.

Stephanie Ronde 14:47Right, yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:48So how, how do you arm yourself? Is it simply like, "Okay, here's all the frequently asked questions. Please read this before contacting me"?

Stephanie Ronde 14:57Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:58Or, you know?

Stephanie Ronde 14:58Yeah, I mean, you can do that. I also-

Tim Fulton 15:00Or is it getting everybody in the same room?

Stephanie Ronde 15:01I, yeah. I think a lot of it is making sure that you're managing expectations.

Tim Fulton 15:06Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 15:06Uh, super shout-out to Amy Leibrand, one of the organizers of the tour at the beginning.

Tim Fulton 15:11Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 15:11She, uh, introduced me to the, uh, beauty of Gantt charts.

Tim Fulton 15:15Oh, yes.

Stephanie Ronde 15:16Um, and you know, she's an Excel master, and you know, what we did was we laid out timelines for every single little thing we could think of.

Tim Fulton 15:26Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 15:26And then held each other accountable for those things.

Tim Fulton 15:30Yeah, and it was, and I, in my experience with Gantt charts, at least the, the big and complicated ones, there's, like, the top level that's like, "This is what has to happen. Nothing goes forward..." If you're not familiar with Gantt charts, I'll link them in the notes. But I'm not getting into the, this, the-

Stephanie Ronde 15:46They're also color-coded, and-

Tim Fulton 15:48Right

Stephanie Ronde 15:48... yeah.

Tim Fulton 15:49I'm, I'm not getting into how they work. Basically, here are things happening on a timeline, but this thing is dependent on this thing or maybe not dependent on this thing. Um, and then below that, if it's a complicated one, are the things that should happen, and then there's the things that would be nice to happen.

Stephanie Ronde 16:05Right.

Tim Fulton 16:06And some things are dependent on other, others, and others aren't, and so you sort of, like, you're able to triage as you go in order to prevent things.

Stephanie Ronde 16:14Exactly.

Tim Fulton 16:15Um, but specifically, how did you communicate with the artists, though, specifically from, like, solicit- was there an open application period? Um-

Stephanie Ronde 16:23There was, so-

Tim Fulton 16:24Little bit of-

Stephanie Ronde 16:24Yeah

Tim Fulton 16:24... hand-to-hand outreach of like-

Stephanie Ronde 16:26Yes

Tim Fulton 16:26... "Hey, you should really do this. You have a home studio."

Stephanie Ronde 16:29Yes, yes.

Tim Fulton 16:29Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 16:29There w- yeah, there was a, there was an application process, um, and then we, um, juried it, and sometimes it's based on location, too, 'cause we wanna make sure that we're, we were representing, you know, the entire city.

Tim Fulton 16:41Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 16:42Um-

Tim Fulton 16:43It's not just a Clintonville tour.

Stephanie Ronde 16:44Oh, no. No, no, no.

Tim Fulton 16:47Right.

Stephanie Ronde 16:47I mean, come to Clintonville, 'cause that's where I am, but-

Tim Fulton 16:50Right

Stephanie Ronde 16:50... but, um, yeah. As far as communicating with the artists, uh, we just made sure that, you know, and that was Cathy Bell Smith. She did a lot of communications with the artists along with myself.

Tim Fulton 17:01Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 17:01And it's just a matter of staying in contact with them, uh, making sure that they have everything they need.

Tim Fulton 17:06"Hey, we're two weeks out."

Stephanie Ronde 17:06Friendly reminders, exactly.

Tim Fulton 17:08Right.

Stephanie Ronde 17:08Those friendly pokes of, "Hey, this is coming up."

Tim Fulton 17:11Which you're still in the middle of right now.

Stephanie Ronde 17:12Yes. Yes, we are.

Tim Fulton 17:13Yeah.

Stephanie Ronde 17:14Yep.

Tim Fulton 17:14And so what are the expectations of the artists, just for the folks that are on the tour? Like, yes, the artist will be there and available, and hopefully you have the opportunity to speak with them if it's not super busy at that time. Some of their art will be up. What other expectations do you set for them?

Stephanie Ronde 17:31Um, most definitely you will be able to talk to the artists. We've found that, uh, a busy studio would be four to five people at one time.

Tim Fulton 17:38Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 17:38And so the artists are expecting that, um, and knowing that they need to kind of get to everybody.

Tim Fulton 17:43Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 17:43Um, but it's really about educating.

Tim Fulton 17:46Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 17:46So if you come on the tour and go to the studio portion or the stage portion, somebody's going to be, uh, demystifying what it is to be a creative for you.

Tim Fulton 17:56Okay. And so it's much more like, "These are the tools of my trade. This is, you know, I work in oil, so these are," you know.

Stephanie Ronde 18:03Exactly.

Tim Fulton 18:04"This is where I mix things," or if it's a photographer who happens to have a dark room, that sort of thing.

Stephanie Ronde 18:09Exactly, yes.

Tim Fulton 18:10Like-

Stephanie Ronde 18:10And so in my case, since I'm a stencil artist-

Tim Fulton 18:13Mm-hmm

Stephanie Ronde 18:13... then I will lay out, you know, the tiers of how I make my stencils and how, how they're cut and how they're sprayed and all of that fun business.

Tim Fulton 18:19Okay, so it is much more, it is a sort of- Process-oriented tour is what, is what people can see, and what, and again, demystifying what it is that they're doing.

Stephanie Ronde 18:31Absolutely, yep.

Tim Fulton 18:32Cool. So the original occurrence of Columbus Open Studio & Stage was through Creative Arts of Women at first, or was it intended to be?

Stephanie Ronde 18:42It was intended to be, but there wasn't much enthusiasm, so we went big-

Tim Fulton 18:46Okay

Stephanie Ronde 18:46... and did the whole city.

Tim Fulton 18:47Got it.

Stephanie Ronde 18:47Yeah.

Tim Fulton 18:47You expanded beyond.

Stephanie Ronde 18:49Yes.

Tim Fulton 18:49Um, I wanna get into that a little bit. Uh, April Sunami, one of our recent artist guests, uh, talked a lot about, first of all, the importance of groups, um, how they sort of provide you a community for feedback, but also opportunities to exhibit shows, and also sort of empowering in the fact of saying like, "You can do this-"

Stephanie Ronde 19:11Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 19:11... "and you can be a working artist in this city." Um, what was interesting to me about her is I think a lot of, um, and Creative Arts of Women as well, a lot of these groups sort of ebb and flow and sometimes don't exist anymore, um, either because just folks lost interest or... I just, I wanna talk a little bit about besides GCAC, which is, you know, a publicly funded institution-

Stephanie Ronde 19:36Right

Tim Fulton 19:36... so it's not going away anytime soon.

Stephanie Ronde 19:38Right.

Tim Fulton 19:39It seems like these groups, especially if you study art history too, right, like these groups are of their time.

Stephanie Ronde 19:48Right, 'cause there's a need for it.

Tim Fulton 19:49Right.

Stephanie Ronde 19:50Absolutely. And the-

Tim Fulton 19:51Um, talk about sort of how you think, and I don't know if you can address this, sort of how those groups form and what the, the f- the life cycle of an artist's group, basically. Like, there's a need for it, couple of people get together and they're like, "You know, we should all get together and have coffee."

Stephanie Ronde 20:09Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 20:10And then like it's such a productive conversation, don't let me put words into your mouth, that then they, they're like, "Okay, well, we wanna invite..." You know, somebody says, "I want to invite a couple additional artists to this," or, "I know somebody that can help us with this. Let's have them talk to us."

Stephanie Ronde 20:25Right.

Tim Fulton 20:26Um, how did, in your experience, talk about the life cycle of an artist group like that.

Stephanie Ronde 20:33Well, um, CAW was founded by myself and Helma Groot.

Tim Fulton 20:38Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 20:38Um, and that came from a need. Honestly, I was starting out professionally in my career-

Tim Fulton 20:44Okay

Stephanie Ronde 20:44... and I, uh, sort of, uh, sabotaged Helma Groot into being my mentor.

Tim Fulton 20:49Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 20:49Um, but I also knew, we also knew that there was a need for a group for women artists to talk professionally, um, without feeling, um, over- overridden by, um, other voices. Um, so we decided that the group would be an open group, so anyone who identified as female could-

Tim Fulton 21:11Mm

Stephanie Ronde 21:11... could join the group.

Tim Fulton 21:12Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 21:12Um, and so we invited 12 women-

Tim Fulton 21:16Okay

Stephanie Ronde 21:16... to my living room, and we, you know, started to have these discussions and said, "You know, this is an open group, invite..." So we went from 12 to 32 to 56 to-

Tim Fulton 21:25Oh

Stephanie Ronde 21:25... I believe we had 110, uh, 10 years later when we decided to disband.

Tim Fulton 21:31So there was an active decision to disband?

Stephanie Ronde 21:33There was.

Tim Fulton 21:34Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 21:34Yeah, because we felt like the group was so large-

Tim Fulton 21:37Uh-huh

Stephanie Ronde 21:37... that it was losing that personal mentor, mentee-

Tim Fulton 21:42Okay, as, 'cause that was one of the goals-

Stephanie Ronde 21:44Yeah

Tim Fulton 21:44... in addition to not, we can just say it, not men controlling the conversation.

Stephanie Ronde 21:49Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton 21:50Um, so what did you, I mean, is there an encouragement then to like splinter off?

Stephanie Ronde 21:57That's what we're hoping-

Tim Fulton 21:58Okay

Stephanie Ronde 21:58... is that, you know, we hope that the women will take what they've, they've learned from what became a steering committee, like, uh, two years later after inception, we needed 12 women to run this organization.

Tim Fulton 22:10Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 22:10Um, but what we're hoping is, you know, that smaller groups can form and get more of the personal attention that they, they are looking for.

Tim Fulton 22:19That w- well, and that was the original intention of the group.

Stephanie Ronde 22:21Exactly.

Tim Fulton 22:22Is there... Do you regret that that, that that's the way it went? Do you regret that you didn't... Obviously, you want anybody who wants to participate to be able to.

Stephanie Ronde 22:34Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 22:35But it must... But the group doesn't exist anymore simply because it got too big to handle. Is there a regret there? Is it, does it feel like that's the n- that, that's a success and that, and so how do you feel about it, I guess?

Stephanie Ronde 22:50Yeah. I, I mean, I personally, um, find it was successful.

Tim Fulton 22:55Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 22:55But I like the way that you framed it earlier by saying, you know, every organization that's a, well, in this case, a grassroots organization has-

Tim Fulton 23:02Right

Stephanie Ronde 23:02... has a, a lifetime. But then, you know, those, those ideas, those seeds get planted somewhere else, and it becomes a different grassroots organization, so.

Tim Fulton 23:13Right. But d- I guess to be more pointed about it, do you regret not tampering its growth and not say, sort of saying like, "Okay, we're gonna be confined to 40 people"?

Stephanie Ronde 23:23Yeah.

Tim Fulton 23:24And if there... It's basically like when you do a, I'm enrolling my daughter in soccer right now, and so they're like, "Okay, once we get to this many kids, that's when we split into two teams."

Stephanie Ronde 23:35Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 23:35And-

Stephanie Ronde 23:37That's what we should've done.

Tim Fulton 23:41So-

Stephanie Ronde 23:41No, I n- I understand your question, though. I think, um, no, I don't think any of us regret, um, not keeping it open-

Tim Fulton 23:49Uh-huh

Stephanie Ronde 23:49... because clearly there was, there was a real need for it.

Tim Fulton 23:52Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 23:52Um, but there are challenges that come with, uh, you know, a volunteer, all run volunteer organization trying to get other people to volunteer. Um, and, and-

Tim Fulton 24:02And, and truly contribute

Stephanie Ronde 24:03... that always didn't happen.

Tim Fulton 24:04Right.

Stephanie Ronde 24:04You know, there was, there was, uh, things that we relied on to happen that didn't happen, and so that did make our jobs harder.

Tim Fulton 24:12Yeah. And I, so I do work with a couple of different volunteer organizations, and one specifically, it's like, you know, you, you, it's super hard to get it off the ground the first year.

Stephanie Ronde 24:22Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 24:22And it's, you know, moderately successful, and, uh, you get everybody invested and, you know, you lose a couple folks, and you try and do it the second year and you're, and- It is so easy to say, "We need more help."

Stephanie Ronde 24:34Right.

Tim Fulton 24:34And so you solicit more help with people that don't necessarily have the institutional knowledge of the things that happened the first year, and you don't wanna say, "That's a bad idea," but you wanna be able to say, "Hey, we tried that."

Stephanie Ronde 24:48Right.

Tim Fulton 24:48Um, "If you can make it work, please make it work." And I think a lot of times, you know, everybody wants to feel like they're the member of a group-

Stephanie Ronde 24:58Right

Tim Fulton 24:58... and also feel like they're contributing.

Stephanie Ronde 24:59Mm.

Tim Fulton 24:59But they sometimes don't, um, have the capacity to provide productive help and contributions.

Stephanie Ronde 25:08Yeah.

Tim Fulton 25:08Um, and, uh, I'll go back to the example of Columbus Open Studio & Stage. You kept it to, you know, a small core group.

Stephanie Ronde 25:16Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 25:17You guys are holding each other accountable-

Stephanie Ronde 25:19Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 25:19... um, in order to keep it going, and you actually had the forethought to, I don't think we've mentioned it up to this point, it's handed over to GCAC now.

Stephanie Ronde 25:28Yes. Yes, it is.

Tim Fulton 25:29They, they are actually, that organization is running it, and again, there's no risk of that organization going away anytime soon.

Stephanie Ronde 25:36Right.

Tim Fulton 25:38Um, the other thing that I've experienced, and again, I don't want this to be all about me and my organizational structure philosophy, is here's, here's an idea, why didn't you do this?

Stephanie Ronde 25:50Right.

Tim Fulton 25:50And it's like, well, because we didn't.

Stephanie Ronde 25:52Right.

Tim Fulton 25:52And we don't have time to do that now, unless you'd like to do it.

Stephanie Ronde 25:56Right.

Tim Fulton 25:56Yeah.

Stephanie Ronde 25:56Well, and I think that's one of the things, I, I love talking about organizational structures and-

Tim Fulton 26:02Mm-hmm

Stephanie Ronde 26:02... I mean, but I think that's one of the challenges also of being in creative fields, um, is that, in, in that my-

Tim Fulton 26:11Well-

Stephanie Ronde 26:11... these are my friends. These colleagues are also my friends.

Tim Fulton 26:13Right.

Stephanie Ronde 26:13So I have very, um, different relationships that need to be balanced between are you being held accountable and am I being held accountable, and, you know, how are you doing?

Tim Fulton 26:27Right.

Stephanie Ronde 26:28You know? Those are two very different-

Tim Fulton 26:29Well, and being able to sort of say, like, it, it's, it's super hard to exist in an environment where everybody's a chief.

Stephanie Ronde 26:38Exactly.

Tim Fulton 26:38Right?

Stephanie Ronde 26:39Exactly.

Tim Fulton 26:39And it's like, and you want folks to feel agency and feel control over what they're doing, but there's gotta b- it's all, it's gotta go up somehow, where someone says, "Hey, you should talk to, you need to be talking to this person because what you're doing is affecting their work." Or, "Hey, you're stepping on this other person's toes."

Stephanie Ronde 26:58Right.

Tim Fulton 26:58"You, you may not be, you, you may not even be aware that you're doing that, but this person is handling social media."

Stephanie Ronde 27:04Right.

Tim Fulton 27:04"Or this person is, this person's already doing graphic design for this event." Um, and-

Stephanie Ronde 27:09And that's what we did in, in Columbus Open Studio & Stage. Everybody knew what their role was.

Tim Fulton 27:15Okay.

Stephanie Ronde 27:15And they had very, you know, Lisa was graphic design and, um, you know, I w- wrote agendas and kept us on topic and tried to keep the meetings to the hour that we promised.

Tim Fulton 27:25Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 27:26And, you know, everybody had their role.

Tim Fulton 27:28Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 27:29Um, and they had the power to make decisions because when you're working on an event that large, decisions need to just be made.

Tim Fulton 27:37Right.

Stephanie Ronde 27:37Um, and then-

Tim Fulton 27:37Well, and you're open to feedback.

Stephanie Ronde 27:39Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Fulton 27:40But it's like, again, this is the third time now. Someone coming to you at the 11th hour and saying, "Hey, why don't we have a, um..." I don't know what a good example is. Uh, "Why don't, why don't we have a virtual reality component to this event?"

Stephanie Ronde 27:58Yeah.

Tim Fulton 27:58And it's like, well, 'cause no one has the capacity to do that, and do you know how to do that?

Stephanie Ronde 28:04Do you know how to d- can you do it?

Tim Fulton 28:05That's a really good idea.

Stephanie Ronde 28:06Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 28:07But, you know, everybody wants the shiny new thing.

Stephanie Ronde 28:10Yeah.

Tim Fulton 28:11Uh, and it's just, you know, it's tough sometimes.

Stephanie Ronde 28:13Well, and I think also with large events like this or even, like, I just finished a mural with Nick Stahl.

Tim Fulton 28:20Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ronde 28:21Um, and him and I, you know, we're both perfectionists, and I think we probably could have worked on that mural for the next two years. Like, "Oh, this isn't perfect." There also has to come a point where it's like, okay, this is th- this is the deadline.

Tim Fulton 28:33This is what we did.

Stephanie Ronde 28:34This is, you had, yeah, this is what we did and, and we need to be proud of that.

Tim Fulton 28:38Yeah.

Stephanie Ronde 28:38Yeah.

Tim Fulton 28:38Well, and that's why events are, are, that's why I prefer to work on events, 'cause I know they're gonna be done.

Stephanie Ronde 28:43You know the deadlines.

Tim Fulton 28:45They, they're gonna happen and they're g- you know, it's gonna be great.

Stephanie Ronde 28:47Yeah.

Tim Fulton 28:48It's, everything's just gonna be done at that point.

Stephanie Ronde 28:49And then y- and then you get to, you know, have a week off and then you're right back at it.

Tim Fulton 28:53Yeah, absolutely.

Stephanie Ronde 28:53Planning the next year. Yep.

Tim Fulton 28:55Absolutely.

Stephanie Ronde 28:56Yep.

Tim Fulton 28:57Stephanie, thank you so much.

Stephanie Ronde 28:58Thank you.

Tim Fulton 29:09Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite organizer. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.