Artist April Sunami
Art and artists don’t evolve in a vacuum. That’s certainly true for Columbus-based mixed media artist April Sunami. We sat down to discuss her work, how she translates the identities of women of color in her work, working with and without the support of those around you, her influences, the importance of finding communities, and the importance of outreach.
SHOWNOTES
- April Sunami
- Art Makes Columbus profile
- Chris Sunami, The Pop Culture Philosopher
- Gustav Klimt
- Alphonse Mucha
- Reeb Avenue Center
- Creative Women of Color
- Kafe Kerouac
- King Arts Complex
- GCAC
- Cowry Shells
This Confluence Cast episode is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city’s incredible artists — stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events and an artist directory visit ColumbusMakesArt.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city.
Read the transcript
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week I sat down with mixed media artist April Tsunami. We talked about her work, how she translates her identity in the physical world, working with and without support of those around you, her influences, the importance of finding communities, and the importance of outreach. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with April Tsunami, visual artist, painter working in mixed media, some installation work in the past. April, how would you describe your work? So, um, I do mixed media paintings of women. Okay. Um, women and hair, women in body coverings. Um, so I stick with... I've been doing the same thing for, oh gosh, like over a decade now.
Okay. And, um, I use just different, different materials. Collage, glass, just various materials and items. They usually have some symbolic significance to me, so. Okay. And w- and it is women of color that you- W- yes, mainly
... portray. Yes, yes. Okay. While that subject matter is the same, what sort of is the, the theme to that work? What is it meant to signify? Well, you know, I think it's evolved over time.
Okay. Um, so when I first started doing it, um... So I always kinda tell this story. It's a little, funny story. Okay. Um, so when I first started to do it, I had decided I'm, I'm gonna do art or some o- I'm gonna, like, make a go of it as an artist and try to do this full time.
Okay. And so, um- This was after school. This was aft-
'Cause you do have an MFA. I ha- I have an MA. Okay. I have an MA. Yeah, I have an MA in art history.
Okay. So yeah, yeah. But, um, so when, um, I decided to make a go of just ma- d- having a studio practice- Okay ... and making art full time, I thought that, um, in order to kinda solidify my identity as this artist-
Okay ... I felt like, uh, I needed to, I needed to make that physical. I needed to make a physical manifestation of that, so I grew, um, locks. Okay. And, um, so that, for me, it was just-
Your hair. Yeah, my hair. Okay. Yeah. So for me, I thought that was, uh, it was this symbolic, um, it was a symbolic commitment to myself-
Okay ... that I was gonna do art full time. And, um, and somehow it filtered into the work, and that's what I became preoccupied with after that, so. So basically portraying women of color with... The hair is sort of the ornamental piece of your work, correct? Well, you know, it, it has... Uh, first of all, I just kinda feel like it has a lot of, um, it just has a lot of weight. It has a lot of resonance.
Okay. And especially for, for Black women. Okay. And it's just a way to signify your identity. I think at that time, and I think, you know, locks right now are pretty ubiquitous and kinda standard. Women wear them in all environments, in corporate environments, and-
Okay ... and everywhere. So, um, I think the meaning has changed, but I think at that time, um, just kinda growing up the way that I did in, um, yeah, I guess a fairly kinda conservative thing where peop- you know, women were expected to have perm their hair, have straightened their hair. Okay. For me, this was like I'm, I'm rejecting-
This was rebelling. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Exactly. This was a rejection of, of all of that. And then-
Okay ... and also deciding to be a full-time artist was a rejection of all the stuff that I was expected to do, you know? So like, you know, go and... If you were to ask you five years before you had started this full time, what, what was your career path at that point? Oh, goodness. Um, so I w- I think I was still pretty, pretty young.
Okay. I, I think initially it was like I, I still wanted to be in art, but the idea was to be, um, an art administrator. Okay. Um, so that was like-
That's what your schooling was in ... that, that was like my trajectory at that, that point. Um, so. Why did you make that, that leap? Um-
'Cause it's a leap of faith, right? It is. In, in terms of- It is a leap of faith
... basically making this commitment of like, "I've gotta make money doing this now." Mm-hmm. What was that change? Well, there were a couple of different things.
Okay. I, I would say it's something I've always wanted to do but just didn't have the courage to do. Um, and money was, was it. Right. But I would probably say one of the biggest things was just, uh, encouragement and support system.
Okay. You know, at this time, I- 'Cause you had that. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah, yeah. Which, which I actually, I got from... I would probably say my husband was, like, the main driver for me. Chris gets credit for that. Chris gets credit for that, totally.
There's the shout-out to Chris. Yeah, Chris gets credit because yeah, he was like, "Hey, why don't you do it full time?" I'm like, "That's crazy. That's insane." Like how are we supposed to make this work? And- Well, and I don't wanna delve too deep into it, but he is a, basically a cultural critic in his own right. Mm-hmm.
Um, has a blog that we'll link to in the show notes for the podcast, but then also he sort of ha- he's a developer- Mm-hmm ... professionally- Yeah
... by day. Uh-huh. Um, and so he's... Again, I sort of wanna give him credit to sort of say he gave you the permission Through support to go out and pursue this on your own? I would, I would say yes.
Okay. I would say yes. And not in any sort of like ownership- Yeah, no
... ease. No. Right. Gosh, no. No, I wouldn't give him that much credit. But no
Permission through support. But- Right ... oh, yeah. I mean, it, it was, it was definitely like a shift in thinking about, you know, what was possible and what you can do. And part of it is that, you know, he came from a family of, of artists who got it. You know?
Okay. Who, like, really prioritized and valued it. Whereas, you know, I would probably say on my side of the family we're very pragmatist. You know? We're- Now, where did you grow up? I grew up in Cincinnati.
Okay. Mm-hmm. Got it. And it, you did undergrad here. Yes.
And then you were at OU for your post-graduate work. Yep, in Athens. Okay. Yep.
Got it. Was your family supportive of that education that you were pursuing? Oh, so there were lots of different conversations about this. Okay. So when I was in undergrad, my goal was I was gonna do just art, and my mom's like, "Well, sweetie, why don't you couple that"
Why don't you have a backup plan? Right. Why don't you couple that with a business, uh ... Why don't you couple that with a business degree? Mm-hmm. And yeah, after macroeconomics I was like, "I'm out."
I can't do this. I'm done. I'm done. And then, um, so yeah, took a, took several, um, undergrad art courses, and then I found an art history course. And I w- this is like a awful story, but this is what it is. Mm-hmm. So after taking art history, and I actually loved it. I took a couple of survey courses.
Yeah. And then I just kept taking classes because they were easy to get into, and they were available. And the next thing you know- And you enjoyed them ... I enjoyed them.
Right. They were awesome. I really did. I, I loved it. And, um, after looking around I was like, "Oh my God, I can graduate in four years if I stay" If I keep taking these classes. If I continue taking this. So it made me also kind of like re- rethink it, and it was actually a ... It was terrible to say it was a really good selling point for my mom to tell her, like, "Hey. Look, I can get into museum work."
Mm-hmm. "I can do art administration. You know, I can write." Well, I- "I can do all of this."
And the virtue of studying that- ... at a place like Ohio State is they are gonna arm you with, "Here are the career fields. Please major in our major." You know? Yeah. The schools have an incentive to get you to major in those fields. Uh, yes and no.
Okay. It was, it was pretty, it was pretty straightforward. Like, this is what we're studying, and, um, there w- I wouldn't, um, necessarily say we were ... You, you know, there was a lot of career preparation afterwards. Okay. But you, i- you know, like, going into it, you know, you, you ...
You could see fields- You- ... that you could apply this to. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you did your research you would see, like, wow, this is ... I can do this, and I can do that with-
Right ... with this. And I will say, I mean, I have no regrets whatsoever about it, um, 'cause it ... I mean, I still use it- Right ... to this day in all of that knowledge, in my work and in my studio practice now, so.
So having that art history background, what classically would people say are, or would you say are your influences for your work? I would probably say, and this is another, this is another thing. Okay. I, I digress way too much. But-
Please ... um, but I would probably say that the, one of the biggest influences, early influences in my work, were probably like the, um, modern 20th century artists. Okay. So Gustav Klimt.
Mm-hmm. Alphonse Mucha. All, all of those folks were, like, really who I tried to emulate. And then it was only until maybe after I graduated, um, then I, I kinda had to discover there's like a wider world of artists out here than, like, the European canon. Yeah. And that kinda like started me on a whole different path-
Okay ... if you will. So, um, or a whole ... You know, and those, don't get me wrong, those influences are still with me and, and people still- You can certainly see the Klimt. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. And people say that to me all the time. I mean, he ... Yeah, it's definitely, definitely that influence is there and, um, you know.
I mean, it's in the color. It's in the pattern. It's in ... Yeah. Yeah. No, and I, I have a, um- And what scale do you work? I've seen, 'cause I've seen pictures of your work- Oh, gosh. It, it's-
... but I don't know how big it is ... it's pretty, it's all over the place. Okay. All, pretty much all sizes. Like, I've done some pretty large scale work. I have a mural at the Reeb Center which is like four foot by eight.
Okay. Um, and then I also do, like, small studies, uh, which are like four by four square, so. Gotcha. Four inches by four inches square.
Gotcha. So let's go back to 10 years ago. Mm-hmm. What did that look like when you first started working as a, again, working artist? Did you set up a studio? Uh, so yeah. I'd used a spare bedroom-
Okay ... which was a studio. And then, um, and then the house we were living in at the time, I, um, kind of fixed up the attic. Okay. Moved up there and, and, uh, that afforded me a little more room and worked there.
Mm-hmm. And you had young children at the time. Um, no actually. Before. You had, didn't have kids at this point. Yeah, before.
Okay. Yeah, so actually I wanna say I started to, um, I w- I was thinking about doing this more full time before I went to grad school. Okay. And then I went to grad school.
Okay. And then, yeah. And then actually during grad school was when I had children, so Got it. And so you were pursuing ... Were you basically pursuing, like, group shows or individual shows or looking for places to show your work? Yeah. Man, it was all over the place. So-
Okay. Yeah. So started off with, like, uh, coffee shops. Mm-hmm. And I will tell you, one of the, the big things for me, I started out with, um, I joined, um, a group.
Okay. Well, especially like first. Right before I went to, um, grad school I was in a group. And at the time they were called Sisters of the Arts, and they later, um, turned into Creative Women of Color. Got it. Um, so Creative Women of Color. And, um, when they started to do shows, those were like my first- Kind of like bigger, like, group shows and-
Okay ... but my solo shows, I would show, I showed at Ha Ha's Pizza. Uh-huh. Okay. And, um, Yellow Springs. I'm telling you, coffee shops. Wherever they, you know, wherever, a place that I went-
Anywhere that you would patronize ... any place that I patronized, I would put my work up, and then- Okay ... I, you know, I made it a regular habit to try to make sure that that stuff was out, it was rotating.
Mm-hmm. Um, I would probably say one of the shows that I actually, like, first, like, sold a couple of pieces, it was Cafe Kerouac. Yep. I had a, um, I organized a show with my, um, my buddy Mark Caldwell-
Okay ... who created a whole series. Uh, I don't think he was like ... He was a CCA d-grad, and he was an amazing artist, but wasn't really in the practice of making art. And he had one room, and I had the other room, and we kinda like made it an event. You know, got a couple of friends who read poetry. And anyway, it was just like a, you know, just a homegrown effort. Okay. You know? And, uh, yeah. And then put some paintings on the wall and, and, um, it was like a, a real kind of shot of confidence. Like, "Oh, okay."
I can do this. I need to keep ... Yeah. I need to keep on with this. Right. You know? So yeah.
And so what, over the course of the last 10 years, sort of what do you see as the ... There was that Kerouac show. Mm. There was joining the group right at the beginning. What are the other sort of ... I'm thinking about this for aspiring artists that are listening. Like, what are the other benchmarks you see that were your successes? Yeah. So you know I get asked this all the time from-
Okay ... you know, people who are aspiring artists. "So what do I do?" And- Right ... I would probably-
Join a group. Yeah. I would say, well, first you gotta do the work, so. Right. So, like, create a consistent body of work. And I would probably say no matter what level it is, 'cause I, I will tell you this as well. Um, when I had, um, one of my first group shows with Creative Women of Color-
Uh-huh ... um, uh, you know, I, I thought I was, I thought I was doing some, like, really cool and fun work, and, uh, the work got placed in this, like, really, um, kinda like, uh, kinda off, off the corner way, but it was, it was- Okay ... really, it was really inspirational to me. It was a good, good lesson to me because not only that, everybody in that show was so amazing-
Okay ... and so talented, and this is the utility of groups. When you show and you are in community with really good artists- Mm ... you also will, you know, you will try to rise up to that standard, and that's, that's kind of what happened.
Okay. It made me work harder. So I was like, "I will never be relegated to a little-" You were put off in the corner of, of the show. A dimly lit corner ever again.
Okay. And so this was like, this was, this was fuel. This was motivation for me. And, um, so yeah. So this is, the, that's one thing I would say. A, create a consistent body of work. Get it out there. Mm-hmm. I don't care what you, um, you know, what, what level it might be. Just, just work to get it out there.
Mm-hmm. You know, and start off just hustle with some, like, little places that show work. Right. Coffee shops or wh- you know, whoever.
They're all looking for art- Yeah ... to put on the wall. Exactly.
Right. Exactly, and that kinda gives you confidence. It helps you, uh, figure out how to hang your work and just gets you in the practice of doing it. Mm-hmm. Um, and then next thing I would say, next level thing, is, yes, join a group. Join a collective. Creative Women of Color was, um, so, man, I can't even say enough. It was so pivotal for me.
Mm-hmm. And not only was I just, like, showing with really phenomenal, um, artists, but, you know, I got a couple mentors in the process, you know? Okay. So they, you know, when you get some good people in your corner, they're kind of like, "Hey, April. Listen. Let's talk about this." And-
Right ... you know, and they get brutally honest with you, and you take it, you know? It's constructive criticism. Don't get upset. You just- Right ... you know? You, you, you just-
Well, and do these group, while they're putting on group shows, are they also doing, like, critiques? Like, you guys are sitting down and doing evaluations of each other's work, or is it primarily just- No, not necessarily. You know, a lot of these groups, they were, um, open, you know? Okay. So it wasn't like juried. You'd have a group show. You would, you'd have a theme that you'd work under.
Mm-hmm. You'd bring the work, and, um, if, you know, how people responded to it at the reception was, like, that was, that was it. That was it. Yeah.
Okay. That was it for, um- What kind of venues would they put those shows up in? So I think the first one the Creative Women of Color had was at the King Arts Complex.
Mm-hmm. Which is a beautiful gallery. Lazell Pierce Gallery. And, um, so that, I mean, it's a, yeah, I mean, it's a, a great venue. Mm. So yeah. And, and, um, so it was a big, it was a big boost. I mean, it's an honor to be there.
Right. But then to, you know, come back, you know, another time w- with an exhibit and, you know, and have a really good response to your work is, that's a, that's an important milestone. Yeah. What other sort of resources would you recommend for artists? I know that you've received recognition from, like, GCAC. Mm-hmm.
Um, what are the other sort of things for folks to tap into as an artist? I think that, I mean, first of all, GCAC is just amazing and phenomenal. Mm-hmm. And I would say is probably, like, one, if not the, one of the biggest resources for artists here, and they are just giving out money. I mean, so apply for a grant-
Right ... really, and they will show you how to do it, and, you know, just- They'll walk you through it. Yeah ... yeah, get tapped in. Go to the events. Um, yeah, definitely make sure you do that because it's, that- that's what they're there for.
Right. They're there to support artists. So that's, that's, like, number one. The other thing, um, that I would say, the resource, the most abundant resource are just really good artists. There are tons of artists out there. Mm-hmm. And this community has artists That are really generous and giving of their knowledge and their time. And I have just been so lucky to just stumble upon a lot of these people who
Mm-hmm ... have like really just have just, um, you know- And it's just sort of picking their brain and s- sort of saying like- Mm-hmm
... how did you do that? Yeah. Or, yeah. Yeah, picking their brain or, um, having them invite you to be a part of a show, and-
Mm-hmm ... um, just, you know, you, uh, just learning along the way as you do. Yeah. Talking a little bit more sort of about the work, you talk about how the, the mixed media, the actual physical items that you add to your work that's not paint.
Mm-hmm. What is the significance of... Give me an example of like what that's meant to represent. Yeah. 'Cause you, you sort of referenced it in-
Mm-hmm ... artist statements that I've read and, and interviews you've done. Yeah. I'm just curious.
So yeah. I've used credit cards. I think that's obvious. Okay. You know, there's like those- That's the obvious significance
... yeah. Yeah. Well, it is. I mean, it's, it... there's this, um... yeah, it's, it, it kinda talks about, um, money, you know? Mm-hmm. It's, it's really a reference to money. There is this piece that, um, I did and, um, I had sold a while ago, and it was called Something Blue. So it was this woman who is, uh, she just has this bouquet of flowers in her ha- um, her hand. Mm-hmm.
And it's all composed out of like credit cards, you know? So it's just kinda talking about, um, yeah, I mean, just talking about money and just like the preoccupation- Well, is that a marriage reference too? ... with money. Well, yeah, yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Well, the really, um- 'Cause you said Something Blue. Yeah Like with-
Something Blue. Well, so, okay, so this is- And she's got a bouquet ... I know I'm always digressing here. Please.
So at one point I worked for a wedding photographer who was this amazing wedding photographer. Okay. But it was really interesting to, um, I kinda always would go through and edit the rolls of film. Right.
And I loved it because through every single roll of film there was a story, you know? Mm-hmm. There was this like, the whole narrative about like what was happening. There's no words, but there are these stories, these rich stories about people's families coming together and interacting, and- What I'm sure-
You can- ... you can see like throughout the course of the day or whatever, like- Oh, yeah ... how the bride's face changes.
Yes. How the, how the groom's face changes. How they react to certain family members. Yep.
Some ways you could tell who paid for the wedding. It's really interesting. It's so interesting. Okay. It was just really fascinating. So it, um, ah, I can't remember when I did it, but a while ago I did a, uh, series, it was like a bridal series. Uh-huh.
And it was just, um, it was just all about brides, and it was kind of, um, um, just, um, kind of inspired by that experience. And that piece- Mm-hmm ... that I did, Something Blue, with the credit cards and so forth was, um, significant for that. Another thing that I use a lot- Mm-hmm
... are cowrie shells, and I know a lot of people use cowrie shells. What is that again? So cowrie shells are these, um, they're kinda these ivory co- cover, or i- ah, sorry. No, you're good.
Ivory, ivory colored, um, shells, and they kinda have like a really distinctive shape. They're kinda almond shape. Uh-huh. And then there's like this, uh, kinda dark, um- In the center
... center. It's jagged. Yeah. It almost looks like teeth.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Um, and so in a lot of places, I mean, they're used all throughout Asia and, um, all throughout West Africa and different places along the coast 'cause they're a shell. Mm-hmm. In some places they're used for currency. They're also used for decoration and so forth. Right.
And so whenever I use that, it's like a, it's like a direct reference to, um, my heritage- Okay ... as an African American, you know? Okay.
So I like to use those a lot. And first of all, I like the way they look aesthetically and how you- Yeah ... put them together in those patterns. But also thing about this is like the, the link, basically, like this link between, um, it- me being here in America- Uh-huh
... and then th- this culture in Africa, and like this continuity of culture, you know- Okay ... that hasn't really left. You know? There's this great diaspora of African people, and that culture has spread. Mm-hmm.
And it still lives on, it still persists. Right. You know? It hasn't gone anywhere. Well, and you've also talked in your artist-
Mm-hmm ... statements about your desire to sort of point back to that. Mm-hmm. Um, because sometimes it's being forgotten or-
Yeah ... or ignored or not acknowledged. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Yes. Or yeah, or intentionally omitted, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was... and that was another thing, just being, um, a person who, uh, who loves history and, uh, thinks about history all the time and studied our history- Right
... and the, so just really being frustrated at all the stories that were being told. And, and, um, so yeah, the, that was a, a primary motivation for me to like really reference that. Gotcha. And, and it makes some really meaningful connections with that, that material. And so talk to wha- again, while the subject matters remain the same, the themes have evolved. Talk about what, you know, let's say maybe a year after you s- became a working artist to now.
Mm-hmm. What do you think is the greatest difference- Oh, gosh. ... in, first of all, the way you work-
Uh-huh ... um, and then also sort of the level at which you're, you're showing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, it's, uh, you know, I think the people who, um, kind of know me and have followed me kinda find this probably the most inspirational because it's, it, there is a clear, um, a clear evolution- Okay
... a clear trajectory, you know? So when I first started, um, you know, the preoccupation was, it was, I think, very, um, it was very aesthetically motivated, you know? It w- that was it. I just really wanted to create beautiful paintings. Okay. And they were much simpler, you know? There was, uh, I worked in all oils back then, and I was very interested in color and pattern and, and, um, just really combining abstract shapes with human figure- Okay
... or, you know, a h- a female figure, and that was it. And so, um, as I continued to work along, I, I, I still wanted to do that, but I added more things into it, more, um, interest into it using that same framework. So, um- Adding a message to it basically. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Yeah. So I w- Probably say, I would say in 2012, um that was another show I had with Creative Women of Color. I wanted to I really wanted to, um, talk about different ways of, uh... I had this s- series called Ways to Speak Without Speaking. So it was really about different protests. Okay. Um, and yes, I should revisit that now, actually. Okay.
It's a good time to revisit that series. Yeah. But anyway. Yeah.
Um, so yeah, so it was, th- that was, um, I just wanted to... I just kinda felt like as I'm growing as an artist, it w- it would I don't know, I just can't not respond to things that are happening in my time or things that- Right ... I'm interested in, such as social justice, you know? Yeah.
So, um, things that I think about and that are meaningful to me. So th- that ended up getting incorporated into the work, and it still is there. Um, I would probably say over, I'm kinda phasing out of it, but probably for the past two years, I think my work has been very, um, very spiritual. Okay. And it's just really based and rooted in my preoccupation with spiritual themes, you know? And, um, so and that gets incorporated into the work where- Right
... you know, I'm just taking all of these different, um, just different iconography from different, um, religions, mainly Christianity, and putting it into my work, you know? Right. And so it was that preoccupation is there. And then, I don't know. I don't know what's happening right now. Okay.
We'll see, but I think, you know, it's going, it's definitely going back more into social themes. I'm definitely incorporating more themes, um, in terms of, um, ancestry and- Okay ... African history. Now, do you, are you involved at all in social justice or follow-
Um, yeah. You know, I could also, I mean, I can always do more, I can tell you that much. Right. But, um- Well, and I'm sorry, not in the work, but personally.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's something that I'm, I'm preoccupied with. Okay. I follow, I read. Okay.
Um, you know, I know about it. Good. I'm, you know, relatively woke, I guess. I-
As the young kids like to say. As they say. But, uh, yeah. So- And do you guys go to church?
Yes. Okay. Mm-hmm. I'm just curious-
Mm-hmm ... how those sort of things, while they're reflected in the work, how much are they reflected in your life? Yeah. And I'm also curious, as I'm sort of a new father, and I'm curious-
Mm-hmm ... how having children sort of influenced your work. Mm, yeah. Yeah. Um, I think a lot, actually. The way I would probably say when my daughter turned one- Mm-hmm
... and, uh, I was able to kind of, like, be a little more independent physically from her, 'cause I weaned her and- Yeah ... and I could feel confident, you know, having her stay with her grandmother for longer periods of time. Yeah.
And I think I really kinda saw, uh, me being more prolific after that. Okay. And, um, you know, I think the material changed. Once I started, um, once I had my son, that was, like, the introduction of all the mixed media stuff that I do. Really?
'Cause I actually ended up switching over to acrylic medium- Okay ... for a little while. And I still do oil. I do all of the faces in oil, but, um, uh, you know, I kinda got scared off by some of the... All of them are dangerous, you know? Like, all, every- Literally, you're talking about the chemicals.
Yeah. Okay. Everything is gonna kill you. But you know, you're a first-time mother, you're like, "Oh, my gosh, I don't want this-" Can't have this in my house.
"I don't want this seeping into..." You know. There's a little bit of fumes. Yeah, exactly. So I was, yeah, I was kinda freaked out about that. So, um, and, and then once I'd started to do acrylic, I learned, like, oh, my goodness. This is, like, this very stable medium. Mm-hmm.
I can, like, you know, adhere things and really kind of, um, I could be a little more experimental- Yeah ... than with, um, with oil- Yeah
... in some way. So that's, yeah. So that, yeah, those are, I think, two, two big shifts. And- It's interesting to me how practical those things are, though. I know. Right?
Yeah. No, it is. That, like, yeah, you're sort of- It's very pragmatic ... y- your, your, your work is- ... obviously sort of both reaching into the past and, and, you know, meant for some existence in the future-
Mm-hmm ... because you're reflecting on your current time as an artist. Mm-hmm. But also it's like, yeah, I don't want chemicals around my kids.
Yeah. Um- And then also that, like, preoccupation with time, you know? Uh-huh.
Like, I only have, you know, I only have two and a half hours, I only have three hours before- Right ... I have to, you know, do this, and I need to make the most out of this time, you know? Right.
And it, it, it in some ways it kinda forces you to be more, um, be more productive. And planful, yes. And, yeah. Yeah, definitely, like, plan your work. So I am, I'm very, um, for the most part, very kinda methodical- You keep hours
... about my- You, yeah. Yeah, I keep regular, steady hours and, yeah, kinda 'cause I have to. Right.
Yeah. Otherwise, the work won't get done. No. Um, talk about some of the sort of what you see happening in Columbus specifically in terms of the art scene here.
Uh, well, I would say, first of all, um, in the places I've gone and I've seen, I mean, Columbus has an art scene that rivals a lot of places. Mm-hmm. Like, really, seriously, like Atlanta, Philadelphia. And I would say the main difference is that, um, since we're smaller, you know- Mm-hmm
... it's a little tight-knit, and I think it's definitely open. We don't have... I mean, if you want a show here in Columbus, you can show here in Columbus. You can- Right ... you can find, you can get hooked up and you can get a show. I don't feel like it's, like, an old boys' club necessarily, you know what I mean? Right.
Bar, like, the, the opportunities are open. It really is, like, the, the, what, what do we call it? The independent What was that? The indie art capital of the world. Yeah. Yes, it is. It really is the indie art capital of the world. Like, you, you just do it. Just do your thing. You put it out there and you can do it. So I would say that going forward, what Columbus can do is to continue to, um, continue to foster that. I think, too, Columbus has been so preoccupied for a long time with, like, having a specific brand. Mm-hmm.
You know? We always had, like, this, um, inferiority complex to why, I don't know, like New York, why even compete? Or, like, Austin, you know? Right. Like, "Well, we need to, like, have, keep Columbus weird." We don't. We don't need that. Like, just, we need to not necessarily- We need to do our work.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We, not necessarily be content, you know? Always, you know, work towards something better. But, um, we, um, yeah, I think we just need to, like, continue to work. I think, um, continue to strive towards being more inclusive, which I think, um, you know, we're making good, good steps in the right direction towards that. Mm-hmm.
Um, yeah. So yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot of work to be done. And I would say the biggest thing is more, we just need to, um, create a culture where people really support work. I, I mean- Okay ... it just really, my thing burns me up when people ask me to do things for free. And I'm sure any working artist will tell you the same thing. Like- Yeah
... please do not ask us. Well, and it's inter- So- I mean, GCAC very specifically-
Yeah ... won't let you hire their artists to even come in and, like, give a talk- Yeah ... for free.
Yeah. Um- No, they, no, and that's it. Their whole thing is you, they, like- Pay the artist
... artists need to be compensated. Right. And so it's that, you know? And I think GCAC is great at doing that, but we need the, the public also to get behind this, you know? And I think there's a, there's a campaign right now that's underway that is fostering more of a culture of, um, where art is prioritized and, um, and valued. Yeah.
You know, the w- artist's work is valued. So I think there is a cultural shift that is happening in, in a good, a good way. But they, I'd just say more momentum behind that. Yeah, absolutely. Who are some of the folks that, obviously you, let's give you some credit, but who are some of the folks that you would recommend that if somebody were look, looking to check out more visual art in Columbus, who are the folks to sort of seek out and look at? Oh my goodness. So, um, I have to give a little shout-out to my, um, studio mate, Pilgrim. Mm-hmm.
Um, Pilgrim is an amazing artist. She does all the wonderful puppets you see at all the festivals. She- Okay ... would be a wonderful, um, wonderful artist, and she does stuff that's completely different. Um, I know that there's, uh, gosh, there are so many. There's so much talent here. There's Nicole Childress who does, like, amazing, beautiful abstract works. Um, there is, um, n- gosh, let me see. So you want young, up-and-coming people? Doesn't have to be young. It can be-
Or anybody, like, just people who just need to be, I can, oh my gosh. Just rattle 'em off. I wish I thought about it. Yeah, I mean, Queen Brooks, who actually is a mentor. She's been in town forever. Okay.
Um, but she is incredible and is a legend in, in her own right. Um, I would say Janet George is an amazing artist, and not only is she an artist, but she's a really big, uh, supporter of artists, you know? She just really tries to, um, just really lift, lift artists up. Um, David Butler is an amazing artist. Gaye Rieseling is an incredible artist. There are so many. Got it. There is incredible amount doing, doing work here. So many. Yeah. Absolutely.
I need to, yeah, I need to prepare a list. Let me email you a list. Cool. We'll- Can I email it? Yeah, absolutely. And we'll put that in the show notes-
Yeah ... as well. Put that in the, yeah. Just again talking sort of about resources, are there other groups, I know you had talked about Creative Women of Color, are there other groups that folks can look to other than, you know, GCAC to, um, basically for shows or for guidance, mentorship, group shows that they may put together?
Well, um, right now I'm not necessarily tapped in. I know HowArt League is a really important group. But two groups that were really important to me and they- Okay ... are, um, they, um, are no longer, um, operating or together- Okay
... is Mother Artists at Work and Creative, um, um, Creative Arts of Women. Okay. So those are two really pivotal groups for me that kind of further pushed me and, um, um, kind of helped nurture me- Yeah
... as an artist. And, um, also just provided very special people in my life who have helped, you know, guide me along and mentor me and- Yeah ... um, you know, just give me different opportunities, so. How important was it for you to be involved in groups that were, groups that were your peers? You know, these were, uh, first of all, you know, women of color. There was, assume that the motherhood group was-
Oh, mothers, yeah. ... artist, artists that are mothers. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I'm gonna refer to it as sort of a safe space to- Yeah. Mm ... um, show and create and, and interact with artists.
Well, that's it, you know? I mean, sometimes, um, those are the groups that kind of welcome me with open arms- Yeah ... you know? And it was like I had somebody who was like, you know, was like, "Hey, come join this group." Yeah.
Um, some other groups you don't necessarily have, you know, have that, someone that- Mm. I mean, it's important to seek those groups out, you know, if you are looking for, um, you know, a way to be in community with other artists. Right.
You do. You have to have that. But, um, but in, in both of these cases it was just like, "Hey, why don't you go check this out?" Or, you know, "I've heard a lot about them." And you go and you just, you have a lot in common with everybody. Right. You know? You vibe with everybody who's there. Um, and you, you respect the art that is being produced, um, by some of the people. So that's, yeah. Yeah.
That's it. Cool. Mm-hmm. April, thank you so much for your time.
Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me and it was, this was a, this was a good time. Absolutely. Thanks. Thank you for listening to The Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite mixed media artist. If you're interested in sponsoring The Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.
Transcript7,221 words
Tim Fulton Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week I sat down with mixed media artist April Tsunami. We talked about her work, how she translates her identity in the physical world, working with and without support of those around you, her influences, the importance of finding communities, and the importance of outreach. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with April Tsunami, visual artist, painter working in mixed media, some installation work in the past. April, how would you describe your work?
April Sunami So, um, I do mixed media paintings of women.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Um, women and hair, women in body coverings. Um, so I stick with... I've been doing the same thing for, oh gosh, like over a decade now.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And, um, I use just different, different materials. Collage, glass, just various materials and items. They usually have some symbolic significance to me, so.
Tim Fulton Okay. And w- and it is women of color that you-
April Sunami W- yes, mainly
Tim Fulton ... portray.
April Sunami Yes, yes.
Tim Fulton Okay. While that subject matter is the same, what sort of is the, the theme to that work? What is it meant to signify?
April Sunami Well, you know, I think it's evolved over time.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Um, so when I first started doing it, um... So I always kinda tell this story. It's a little, funny story.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Um, so when I first started to do it, I had decided I'm, I'm gonna do art or some o- I'm gonna, like, make a go of it as an artist and try to do this full time.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And so, um-
Tim Fulton This was after school.
April Sunami This was aft-
Tim Fulton 'Cause you do have an MFA.
April Sunami I ha- I have an MA.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami I have an MA. Yeah, I have an MA in art history.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami So yeah, yeah. But, um, so when, um, I decided to make a go of just ma- d- having a studio practice-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... and making art full time, I thought that, um, in order to kinda solidify my identity as this artist-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... I felt like, uh, I needed to, I needed to make that physical. I needed to make a physical manifestation of that, so I grew, um, locks.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And, um, so that, for me, it was just-
Tim Fulton Your hair.
April Sunami Yeah, my hair.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Yeah. So for me, I thought that was, uh, it was this symbolic, um, it was a symbolic commitment to myself-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... that I was gonna do art full time. And, um, and somehow it filtered into the work, and that's what I became preoccupied with after that, so.
Tim Fulton So basically portraying women of color with... The hair is sort of the ornamental piece of your work, correct?
April Sunami Well, you know, it, it has... Uh, first of all, I just kinda feel like it has a lot of, um, it just has a lot of weight. It has a lot of resonance.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And especially for, for Black women.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And it's just a way to signify your identity. I think at that time, and I think, you know, locks right now are pretty ubiquitous and kinda standard. Women wear them in all environments, in corporate environments, and-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... and everywhere. So, um, I think the meaning has changed, but I think at that time, um, just kinda growing up the way that I did in, um, yeah, I guess a fairly kinda conservative thing where peop- you know, women were expected to have perm their hair, have straightened their hair.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami For me, this was like I'm, I'm rejecting-
Tim Fulton This was rebelling.
April Sunami Yeah, yeah.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Exactly. This was a rejection of, of all of that. And then-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... and also deciding to be a full-time artist was a rejection of all the stuff that I was expected to do, you know? So like, you know, go and...
Tim Fulton If you were to ask you five years before you had started this full time, what, what was your career path at that point?
April Sunami Oh, goodness. Um, so I w- I think I was still pretty, pretty young.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami I, I think initially it was like I, I still wanted to be in art, but the idea was to be, um, an art administrator.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Um, so that was like-
Tim Fulton That's what your schooling was in
April Sunami ... that, that was like my trajectory at that, that point. Um, so.
Tim Fulton Why did you make that, that leap?
April Sunami Um-
Tim Fulton 'Cause it's a leap of faith, right?
April Sunami It is.
Tim Fulton In, in terms of-
April Sunami It is a leap of faith
Tim Fulton ... basically making this commitment of like, "I've gotta make money doing this now."
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton What was that change?
April Sunami Well, there were a couple of different things.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami I, I would say it's something I've always wanted to do but just didn't have the courage to do. Um, and money was, was it.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami But I would probably say one of the biggest things was just, uh, encouragement and support system.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami You know, at this time, I-
Tim Fulton 'Cause you had that.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Yeah, yeah. Which, which I actually, I got from... I would probably say my husband was, like, the main driver for me.
Tim Fulton Chris gets credit for that.
April Sunami Chris gets credit for that, totally.
Tim Fulton There's the shout-out to Chris.
April Sunami Yeah, Chris gets credit because yeah, he was like, "Hey, why don't you do it full time?" I'm like, "That's crazy. That's insane." Like how are we supposed to make this work? And-
Tim Fulton Well, and I don't wanna delve too deep into it, but he is a, basically a cultural critic in his own right.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton Um, has a blog that we'll link to in the show notes for the podcast, but then also he sort of ha- he's a developer-
April Sunami Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... professionally-
April Sunami Yeah
Tim Fulton ... by day.
April Sunami Uh-huh.
Tim Fulton Um, and so he's... Again, I sort of wanna give him credit to sort of say he gave you the permission Through support to go out and pursue this on your own?
April Sunami I would, I would say yes.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami I would say yes.
Tim Fulton And not in any sort of like ownership-
April Sunami Yeah, no
Tim Fulton ... ease.
April Sunami No.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami Gosh, no. No, I wouldn't give him that much credit. But no
Tim Fulton Permission through support.
April Sunami But-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... oh, yeah. I mean, it, it was, it was definitely like a shift in thinking about, you know, what was possible and what you can do. And part of it is that, you know, he came from a family of, of artists who got it. You know?
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Who, like, really prioritized and valued it. Whereas, you know, I would probably say on my side of the family we're very pragmatist. You know? We're-
Tim Fulton Now, where did you grow up?
April Sunami I grew up in Cincinnati.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton Got it. And it, you did undergrad here.
April Sunami Yes.
Tim Fulton And then you were at OU for your post-graduate work.
April Sunami Yep, in Athens.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Yep.
Tim Fulton Got it. Was your family supportive of that education that you were pursuing?
April Sunami Oh, so there were lots of different conversations about this.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami So when I was in undergrad, my goal was I was gonna do just art, and my mom's like, "Well, sweetie, why don't you couple that"
Tim Fulton Why don't you have a backup plan?
April Sunami Right. Why don't you couple that with a business, uh ... Why don't you couple that with a business degree?
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami And yeah, after macroeconomics I was like, "I'm out."
Tim Fulton I can't do this.
April Sunami I'm done. I'm done. And then, um, so yeah, took a, took several, um, undergrad art courses, and then I found an art history course. And I w- this is like a awful story, but this is what it is.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami So after taking art history, and I actually loved it. I took a couple of survey courses.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami And then I just kept taking classes because they were easy to get into, and they were available. And the next thing you know-
Tim Fulton And you enjoyed them
April Sunami ... I enjoyed them.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami They were awesome. I really did. I, I loved it. And, um, after looking around I was like, "Oh my God, I can graduate in four years if I stay"
Tim Fulton If I keep taking these classes.
April Sunami If I continue taking this. So it made me also kind of like re- rethink it, and it was actually a ... It was terrible to say it was a really good selling point for my mom to tell her, like, "Hey. Look, I can get into museum work."
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami "I can do art administration. You know, I can write."
Tim Fulton Well, I-
April Sunami "I can do all of this."
Tim Fulton And the virtue of studying that- ... at a place like Ohio State is they are gonna arm you with, "Here are the career fields. Please major in our major." You know?
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton The schools have an incentive to get you to major in those fields.
April Sunami Uh, yes and no.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami It was, it was pretty, it was pretty straightforward. Like, this is what we're studying, and, um, there w- I wouldn't, um, necessarily say we were ... You, you know, there was a lot of career preparation afterwards.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami But you, i- you know, like, going into it, you know, you, you ...
Tim Fulton You could see fields-
April Sunami You-
Tim Fulton ... that you could apply this to.
April Sunami Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you did your research you would see, like, wow, this is ... I can do this, and I can do that with-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... with this. And I will say, I mean, I have no regrets whatsoever about it, um, 'cause it ... I mean, I still use it-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... to this day in all of that knowledge, in my work and in my studio practice now, so.
Tim Fulton So having that art history background, what classically would people say are, or would you say are your influences for your work?
April Sunami I would probably say, and this is another, this is another thing.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami I, I digress way too much. But-
Tim Fulton Please
April Sunami ... um, but I would probably say that the, one of the biggest influences, early influences in my work, were probably like the, um, modern 20th century artists.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami So Gustav Klimt.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami Alphonse Mucha. All, all of those folks were, like, really who I tried to emulate. And then it was only until maybe after I graduated, um, then I, I kinda had to discover there's like a wider world of artists out here than, like, the European canon.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami And that kinda like started me on a whole different path-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... if you will. So, um, or a whole ... You know, and those, don't get me wrong, those influences are still with me and, and people still-
Tim Fulton You can certainly see the Klimt. Yeah.
April Sunami Oh, yeah, yeah. And people say that to me all the time. I mean, he ... Yeah, it's definitely, definitely that influence is there and, um, you know.
Tim Fulton I mean, it's in the color. It's in the pattern. It's in ... Yeah.
April Sunami Yeah. No, and I, I have a, um-
Tim Fulton And what scale do you work? I've seen, 'cause I've seen pictures of your work-
April Sunami Oh, gosh. It, it's-
Tim Fulton ... but I don't know how big it is
April Sunami ... it's pretty, it's all over the place.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami All, pretty much all sizes. Like, I've done some pretty large scale work. I have a mural at the Reeb Center which is like four foot by eight.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Um, and then I also do, like, small studies, uh, which are like four by four square, so.
Tim Fulton Gotcha.
April Sunami Four inches by four inches square.
Tim Fulton Gotcha. So let's go back to 10 years ago.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton What did that look like when you first started working as a, again, working artist? Did you set up a studio?
April Sunami Uh, so yeah. I'd used a spare bedroom-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... which was a studio. And then, um, and then the house we were living in at the time, I, um, kind of fixed up the attic.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Moved up there and, and, uh, that afforded me a little more room and worked there.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm. And you had young children at the time.
April Sunami Um, no actually. Before.
Tim Fulton You had, didn't have kids at this point.
April Sunami Yeah, before.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Yeah, so actually I wanna say I started to, um, I w- I was thinking about doing this more full time before I went to grad school.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And then I went to grad school.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And then, yeah. And then actually during grad school was when I had children, so
Tim Fulton Got it. And so you were pursuing ... Were you basically pursuing, like, group shows or individual shows or looking for places to show your work?
April Sunami Yeah. Man, it was all over the place. So-
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Yeah. So started off with, like, uh, coffee shops.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami And I will tell you, one of the, the big things for me, I started out with, um, I joined, um, a group.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Well, especially like first. Right before I went to, um, grad school I was in a group. And at the time they were called Sisters of the Arts, and they later, um, turned into Creative Women of Color.
Tim Fulton Got it.
April Sunami Um, so Creative Women of Color. And, um, when they started to do shows, those were like my first- Kind of like bigger, like, group shows and-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... but my solo shows, I would show, I showed at Ha Ha's Pizza.
Tim Fulton Uh-huh. Okay.
April Sunami And, um, Yellow Springs. I'm telling you, coffee shops. Wherever they, you know, wherever, a place that I went-
Tim Fulton Anywhere that you would patronize
April Sunami ... any place that I patronized, I would put my work up, and then-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... I, you know, I made it a regular habit to try to make sure that that stuff was out, it was rotating.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami Um, I would probably say one of the shows that I actually, like, first, like, sold a couple of pieces, it was Cafe Kerouac.
Tim Fulton Yep.
April Sunami I had a, um, I organized a show with my, um, my buddy Mark Caldwell-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... who created a whole series. Uh, I don't think he was like ... He was a CCA d-grad, and he was an amazing artist, but wasn't really in the practice of making art. And he had one room, and I had the other room, and we kinda like made it an event. You know, got a couple of friends who read poetry. And anyway, it was just like a, you know, just a homegrown effort.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami You know? And, uh, yeah. And then put some paintings on the wall and, and, um, it was like a, a real kind of shot of confidence. Like, "Oh, okay."
Tim Fulton I can do this.
April Sunami I need to keep ... Yeah. I need to keep on with this.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami You know? So yeah.
Tim Fulton And so what, over the course of the last 10 years, sort of what do you see as the ... There was that Kerouac show.
April Sunami Mm.
Tim Fulton There was joining the group right at the beginning. What are the other sort of ... I'm thinking about this for aspiring artists that are listening. Like, what are the other benchmarks you see that were your successes?
April Sunami Yeah. So you know I get asked this all the time from-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... you know, people who are aspiring artists. "So what do I do?" And-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... I would probably-
Tim Fulton Join a group.
April Sunami Yeah. I would say, well, first you gotta do the work, so.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami So, like, create a consistent body of work. And I would probably say no matter what level it is, 'cause I, I will tell you this as well. Um, when I had, um, one of my first group shows with Creative Women of Color-
Tim Fulton Uh-huh
April Sunami ... um, uh, you know, I, I thought I was, I thought I was doing some, like, really cool and fun work, and, uh, the work got placed in this, like, really, um, kinda like, uh, kinda off, off the corner way, but it was, it was-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... really, it was really inspirational to me. It was a good, good lesson to me because not only that, everybody in that show was so amazing-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... and so talented, and this is the utility of groups. When you show and you are in community with really good artists-
Tim Fulton Mm
April Sunami ... you also will, you know, you will try to rise up to that standard, and that's, that's kind of what happened.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami It made me work harder. So I was like, "I will never be relegated to a little-"
Tim Fulton You were put off in the corner of, of the show.
April Sunami A dimly lit corner ever again.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And so this was like, this was, this was fuel. This was motivation for me. And, um, so yeah. So this is, the, that's one thing I would say. A, create a consistent body of work. Get it out there.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami I don't care what you, um, you know, what, what level it might be. Just, just work to get it out there.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami You know, and start off just hustle with some, like, little places that show work.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami Coffee shops or wh- you know, whoever.
Tim Fulton They're all looking for art-
April Sunami Yeah
Tim Fulton ... to put on the wall.
April Sunami Exactly.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami Exactly, and that kinda gives you confidence. It helps you, uh, figure out how to hang your work and just gets you in the practice of doing it.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami Um, and then next thing I would say, next level thing, is, yes, join a group. Join a collective. Creative Women of Color was, um, so, man, I can't even say enough. It was so pivotal for me.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami And not only was I just, like, showing with really phenomenal, um, artists, but, you know, I got a couple mentors in the process, you know?
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami So they, you know, when you get some good people in your corner, they're kind of like, "Hey, April. Listen. Let's talk about this." And-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... you know, and they get brutally honest with you, and you take it, you know? It's constructive criticism. Don't get upset. You just-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... you know? You, you, you just-
Tim Fulton Well, and do these group, while they're putting on group shows, are they also doing, like, critiques? Like, you guys are sitting down and doing evaluations of each other's work, or is it primarily just-
April Sunami No, not necessarily. You know, a lot of these groups, they were, um, open, you know?
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami So it wasn't like juried. You'd have a group show. You would, you'd have a theme that you'd work under.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami You'd bring the work, and, um, if, you know, how people responded to it at the reception was, like, that was, that was it.
Tim Fulton That was it.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami That was it for, um-
Tim Fulton What kind of venues would they put those shows up in?
April Sunami So I think the first one the Creative Women of Color had was at the King Arts Complex.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami Which is a beautiful gallery. Lazell Pierce Gallery. And, um, so that, I mean, it's a, yeah, I mean, it's a, a great venue.
Tim Fulton Mm.
April Sunami So yeah. And, and, um, so it was a big, it was a big boost. I mean, it's an honor to be there.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami But then to, you know, come back, you know, another time w- with an exhibit and, you know, and have a really good response to your work is, that's a, that's an important milestone.
Tim Fulton Yeah. What other sort of resources would you recommend for artists? I know that you've received recognition from, like, GCAC.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton Um, what are the other sort of things for folks to tap into as an artist?
April Sunami I think that, I mean, first of all, GCAC is just amazing and phenomenal.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami And I would say is probably, like, one, if not the, one of the biggest resources for artists here, and they are just giving out money. I mean, so apply for a grant-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... really, and they will show you how to do it, and, you know, just-
Tim Fulton They'll walk you through it. Yeah
April Sunami ... yeah, get tapped in. Go to the events. Um, yeah, definitely make sure you do that because it's, that- that's what they're there for.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami They're there to support artists. So that's, that's, like, number one. The other thing, um, that I would say, the resource, the most abundant resource are just really good artists. There are tons of artists out there.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami And this community has artists That are really generous and giving of their knowledge and their time. And I have just been so lucky to just stumble upon a lot of these people who
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
April Sunami ... have like really just have just, um, you know-
Tim Fulton And it's just sort of picking their brain and s- sort of saying like-
April Sunami Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... how did you do that?
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton Or, yeah.
April Sunami Yeah, picking their brain or, um, having them invite you to be a part of a show, and-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
April Sunami ... um, just, you know, you, uh, just learning along the way as you do.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton Talking a little bit more sort of about the work, you talk about how the, the mixed media, the actual physical items that you add to your work that's not paint.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton What is the significance of... Give me an example of like what that's meant to represent.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton 'Cause you, you sort of referenced it in-
April Sunami Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... artist statements that I've read and, and interviews you've done.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton I'm just curious.
April Sunami So yeah. I've used credit cards. I think that's obvious.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami You know, there's like those-
Tim Fulton That's the obvious significance
April Sunami ... yeah. Yeah. Well, it is. I mean, it's, it... there's this, um... yeah, it's, it, it kinda talks about, um, money, you know?
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami It's, it's really a reference to money. There is this piece that, um, I did and, um, I had sold a while ago, and it was called Something Blue. So it was this woman who is, uh, she just has this bouquet of flowers in her ha- um, her hand.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami And it's all composed out of like credit cards, you know? So it's just kinda talking about, um, yeah, I mean, just talking about money and just like the preoccupation-
Tim Fulton Well, is that a marriage reference too?
April Sunami ... with money. Well, yeah, yeah.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Yeah. Well, the really, um-
Tim Fulton 'Cause you said Something Blue.
April Sunami Yeah
Tim Fulton Like with-
April Sunami Something Blue. Well, so, okay, so this is-
Tim Fulton And she's got a bouquet
April Sunami ... I know I'm always digressing here.
Tim Fulton Please.
April Sunami So at one point I worked for a wedding photographer who was this amazing wedding photographer.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami But it was really interesting to, um, I kinda always would go through and edit the rolls of film.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami And I loved it because through every single roll of film there was a story, you know?
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami There was this like, the whole narrative about like what was happening. There's no words, but there are these stories, these rich stories about people's families coming together and interacting, and-
Tim Fulton What I'm sure-
April Sunami You can-
Tim Fulton ... you can see like throughout the course of the day or whatever, like-
April Sunami Oh, yeah
Tim Fulton ... how the bride's face changes.
April Sunami Yes.
Tim Fulton How the, how the groom's face changes.
April Sunami How they react to certain family members.
Tim Fulton Yep.
April Sunami Some ways you could tell who paid for the wedding. It's really interesting. It's so interesting.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami It was just really fascinating. So it, um, ah, I can't remember when I did it, but a while ago I did a, uh, series, it was like a bridal series.
Tim Fulton Uh-huh.
April Sunami And it was just, um, it was just all about brides, and it was kind of, um, um, just, um, kind of inspired by that experience. And that piece-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
April Sunami ... that I did, Something Blue, with the credit cards and so forth was, um, significant for that. Another thing that I use a lot-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
April Sunami ... are cowrie shells, and I know a lot of people use cowrie shells.
Tim Fulton What is that again?
April Sunami So cowrie shells are these, um, they're kinda these ivory co- cover, or i- ah, sorry.
Tim Fulton No, you're good.
April Sunami Ivory, ivory colored, um, shells, and they kinda have like a really distinctive shape. They're kinda almond shape.
Tim Fulton Uh-huh.
April Sunami And then there's like this, uh, kinda dark, um-
Tim Fulton In the center
April Sunami ... center.
Tim Fulton It's jagged.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton It almost looks like teeth.
April Sunami Exactly.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami Yeah, exactly.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami Um, and so in a lot of places, I mean, they're used all throughout Asia and, um, all throughout West Africa and different places along the coast 'cause they're a shell.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami In some places they're used for currency. They're also used for decoration and so forth.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami And so whenever I use that, it's like a, it's like a direct reference to, um, my heritage-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... as an African American, you know?
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami So I like to use those a lot. And first of all, I like the way they look aesthetically and how you-
Tim Fulton Yeah
April Sunami ... put them together in those patterns. But also thing about this is like the, the link, basically, like this link between, um, it- me being here in America-
Tim Fulton Uh-huh
April Sunami ... and then th- this culture in Africa, and like this continuity of culture, you know-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... that hasn't really left. You know? There's this great diaspora of African people, and that culture has spread.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami And it still lives on, it still persists.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami You know? It hasn't gone anywhere.
Tim Fulton Well, and you've also talked in your artist-
April Sunami Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... statements about your desire to sort of point back to that.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton Um, because sometimes it's being forgotten or-
April Sunami Yeah
Tim Fulton ... or ignored or not acknowledged.
April Sunami Yeah, yeah.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami Yes. Or yeah, or intentionally omitted, you know?
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami Yeah, it was... and that was another thing, just being, um, a person who, uh, who loves history and, uh, thinks about history all the time and studied our history-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... and the, so just really being frustrated at all the stories that were being told. And, and, um, so yeah, the, that was a, a primary motivation for me to like really reference that.
Tim Fulton Gotcha.
April Sunami And, and it makes some really meaningful connections with that, that material.
Tim Fulton And so talk to wha- again, while the subject matters remain the same, the themes have evolved. Talk about what, you know, let's say maybe a year after you s- became a working artist to now.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton What do you think is the greatest difference-
April Sunami Oh, gosh.
Tim Fulton ... in, first of all, the way you work-
April Sunami Uh-huh
Tim Fulton ... um, and then also sort of the level at which you're, you're showing.
April Sunami Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, it's, uh, you know, I think the people who, um, kind of know me and have followed me kinda find this probably the most inspirational because it's, it, there is a clear, um, a clear evolution-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... a clear trajectory, you know? So when I first started, um, you know, the preoccupation was, it was, I think, very, um, it was very aesthetically motivated, you know? It w- that was it. I just really wanted to create beautiful paintings.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And they were much simpler, you know? There was, uh, I worked in all oils back then, and I was very interested in color and pattern and, and, um, just really combining abstract shapes with human figure-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... or, you know, a h- a female figure, and that was it. And so, um, as I continued to work along, I, I, I still wanted to do that, but I added more things into it, more, um, interest into it using that same framework. So, um-
Tim Fulton Adding a message to it basically.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Yeah. So I w- Probably say, I would say in 2012, um that was another show I had with Creative Women of Color. I wanted to I really wanted to, um, talk about different ways of, uh... I had this s- series called Ways to Speak Without Speaking. So it was really about different protests.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Um, and yes, I should revisit that now, actually.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami It's a good time to revisit that series.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami But anyway.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami Um, so yeah, so it was, th- that was, um, I just wanted to... I just kinda felt like as I'm growing as an artist, it w- it would I don't know, I just can't not respond to things that are happening in my time or things that-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... I'm interested in, such as social justice, you know?
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami So, um, things that I think about and that are meaningful to me. So th- that ended up getting incorporated into the work, and it still is there. Um, I would probably say over, I'm kinda phasing out of it, but probably for the past two years, I think my work has been very, um, very spiritual.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And it's just really based and rooted in my preoccupation with spiritual themes, you know? And, um, so and that gets incorporated into the work where-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... you know, I'm just taking all of these different, um, just different iconography from different, um, religions, mainly Christianity, and putting it into my work, you know?
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami And so it was that preoccupation is there. And then, I don't know. I don't know what's happening right now.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami We'll see, but I think, you know, it's going, it's definitely going back more into social themes. I'm definitely incorporating more themes, um, in terms of, um, ancestry and-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... African history.
Tim Fulton Now, do you, are you involved at all in social justice or follow-
April Sunami Um, yeah. You know, I could also, I mean, I can always do more, I can tell you that much.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami But, um-
Tim Fulton Well, and I'm sorry, not in the work, but personally.
April Sunami Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's something that I'm, I'm preoccupied with.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami I follow, I read.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Um, you know, I know about it.
Tim Fulton Good.
April Sunami I'm, you know, relatively woke, I guess.
Tim Fulton I-
April Sunami As the young kids like to say.
Tim Fulton As they say.
April Sunami But, uh, yeah. So-
Tim Fulton And do you guys go to church?
April Sunami Yes.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton I'm just curious-
April Sunami Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... how those sort of things, while they're reflected in the work, how much are they reflected in your life?
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton And I'm also curious, as I'm sort of a new father, and I'm curious-
April Sunami Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... how having children sort of influenced your work.
April Sunami Mm, yeah. Yeah. Um, I think a lot, actually. The way I would probably say when my daughter turned one-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
April Sunami ... and, uh, I was able to kind of, like, be a little more independent physically from her, 'cause I weaned her and-
Tim Fulton Yeah
April Sunami ... and I could feel confident, you know, having her stay with her grandmother for longer periods of time.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami And I think I really kinda saw, uh, me being more prolific after that.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami And, um, you know, I think the material changed. Once I started, um, once I had my son, that was, like, the introduction of all the mixed media stuff that I do.
Tim Fulton Really?
April Sunami 'Cause I actually ended up switching over to acrylic medium-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... for a little while. And I still do oil. I do all of the faces in oil, but, um, uh, you know, I kinda got scared off by some of the... All of them are dangerous, you know? Like, all, every-
Tim Fulton Literally, you're talking about the chemicals.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Everything is gonna kill you. But you know, you're a first-time mother, you're like, "Oh, my gosh, I don't want this-"
Tim Fulton Can't have this in my house.
April Sunami "I don't want this seeping into..." You know.
Tim Fulton There's a little bit of fumes.
April Sunami Yeah, exactly. So I was, yeah, I was kinda freaked out about that. So, um, and, and then once I'd started to do acrylic, I learned, like, oh, my goodness. This is, like, this very stable medium.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami I can, like, you know, adhere things and really kind of, um, I could be a little more experimental-
Tim Fulton Yeah
April Sunami ... than with, um, with oil-
Tim Fulton Yeah
April Sunami ... in some way. So that's, yeah. So that, yeah, those are, I think, two, two big shifts. And-
Tim Fulton It's interesting to me how practical those things are, though.
April Sunami I know.
Tim Fulton Right?
April Sunami Yeah. No, it is.
Tim Fulton That, like, yeah, you're sort of-
April Sunami It's very pragmatic
Tim Fulton ... y- your, your, your work is- ... obviously sort of both reaching into the past and, and, you know, meant for some existence in the future-
April Sunami Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... because you're reflecting on your current time as an artist.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton But also it's like, yeah, I don't want chemicals around my kids.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton Um-
April Sunami And then also that, like, preoccupation with time, you know?
Tim Fulton Uh-huh.
April Sunami Like, I only have, you know, I only have two and a half hours, I only have three hours before-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... I have to, you know, do this, and I need to make the most out of this time, you know?
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami And it, it, it in some ways it kinda forces you to be more, um, be more productive.
Tim Fulton And planful, yes.
April Sunami And, yeah. Yeah, definitely, like, plan your work. So I am, I'm very, um, for the most part, very kinda methodical-
Tim Fulton You keep hours
April Sunami ... about my-
Tim Fulton You, yeah.
April Sunami Yeah, I keep regular, steady hours and, yeah, kinda 'cause I have to.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton Otherwise, the work won't get done.
April Sunami No.
Tim Fulton Um, talk about some of the sort of what you see happening in Columbus specifically in terms of the art scene here.
April Sunami Uh, well, I would say, first of all, um, in the places I've gone and I've seen, I mean, Columbus has an art scene that rivals a lot of places.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami Like, really, seriously, like Atlanta, Philadelphia. And I would say the main difference is that, um, since we're smaller, you know-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
April Sunami ... it's a little tight-knit, and I think it's definitely open. We don't have... I mean, if you want a show here in Columbus, you can show here in Columbus. You can-
Tim Fulton Right
April Sunami ... you can find, you can get hooked up and you can get a show. I don't feel like it's, like, an old boys' club necessarily, you know what I mean?
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami Bar, like, the, the opportunities are open. It really is, like, the, the, what, what do we call it? The independent What was that?
Tim Fulton The indie art capital of the world.
April Sunami Yeah. Yes, it is. It really is the indie art capital of the world. Like, you, you just do it. Just do your thing. You put it out there and you can do it. So I would say that going forward, what Columbus can do is to continue to, um, continue to foster that. I think, too, Columbus has been so preoccupied for a long time with, like, having a specific brand.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami You know? We always had, like, this, um, inferiority complex to why, I don't know, like New York, why even compete? Or, like, Austin, you know?
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami Like, "Well, we need to, like, have, keep Columbus weird." We don't. We don't need that. Like, just, we need to not necessarily-
Tim Fulton We need to do our work.
April Sunami Yeah, exactly.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami We, not necessarily be content, you know? Always, you know, work towards something better. But, um, we, um, yeah, I think we just need to, like, continue to work. I think, um, continue to strive towards being more inclusive, which I think, um, you know, we're making good, good steps in the right direction towards that.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami Um, yeah. So yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot of work to be done. And I would say the biggest thing is more, we just need to, um, create a culture where people really support work. I, I mean-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... it just really, my thing burns me up when people ask me to do things for free. And I'm sure any working artist will tell you the same thing. Like-
Tim Fulton Yeah
April Sunami ... please do not ask us.
Tim Fulton Well, and it's inter-
April Sunami So-
Tim Fulton I mean, GCAC very specifically-
April Sunami Yeah
Tim Fulton ... won't let you hire their artists to even come in and, like, give a talk-
April Sunami Yeah
Tim Fulton ... for free.
April Sunami Yeah.
Tim Fulton Um-
April Sunami No, they, no, and that's it. Their whole thing is you, they, like-
Tim Fulton Pay the artist
April Sunami ... artists need to be compensated.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami And so it's that, you know? And I think GCAC is great at doing that, but we need the, the public also to get behind this, you know? And I think there's a, there's a campaign right now that's underway that is fostering more of a culture of, um, where art is prioritized and, um, and valued.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami You know, the w- artist's work is valued. So I think there is a cultural shift that is happening in, in a good, a good way. But they, I'd just say more momentum behind that.
Tim Fulton Yeah, absolutely. Who are some of the folks that, obviously you, let's give you some credit, but who are some of the folks that you would recommend that if somebody were look, looking to check out more visual art in Columbus, who are the folks to sort of seek out and look at?
April Sunami Oh my goodness. So, um, I have to give a little shout-out to my, um, studio mate, Pilgrim.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
April Sunami Um, Pilgrim is an amazing artist. She does all the wonderful puppets you see at all the festivals. She-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... would be a wonderful, um, wonderful artist, and she does stuff that's completely different. Um, I know that there's, uh, gosh, there are so many. There's so much talent here. There's Nicole Childress who does, like, amazing, beautiful abstract works. Um, there is, um, n- gosh, let me see. So you want young, up-and-coming people?
Tim Fulton Doesn't have to be young. It can be-
April Sunami Or anybody, like, just people who just need to be, I can, oh my gosh.
Tim Fulton Just rattle 'em off.
April Sunami I wish I thought about it. Yeah, I mean, Queen Brooks, who actually is a mentor. She's been in town forever.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami Um, but she is incredible and is a legend in, in her own right. Um, I would say Janet George is an amazing artist, and not only is she an artist, but she's a really big, uh, supporter of artists, you know? She just really tries to, um, just really lift, lift artists up. Um, David Butler is an amazing artist. Gaye Rieseling is an incredible artist. There are so many.
Tim Fulton Got it.
April Sunami There is incredible amount doing, doing work here. So many. Yeah.
Tim Fulton Absolutely.
April Sunami I need to, yeah, I need to prepare a list. Let me email you a list.
Tim Fulton Cool. We'll-
April Sunami Can I email it?
Tim Fulton Yeah, absolutely. And we'll put that in the show notes-
April Sunami Yeah
Tim Fulton ... as well.
April Sunami Put that in the, yeah.
Tim Fulton Just again talking sort of about resources, are there other groups, I know you had talked about Creative Women of Color, are there other groups that folks can look to other than, you know, GCAC to, um, basically for shows or for guidance, mentorship, group shows that they may put together?
April Sunami Well, um, right now I'm not necessarily tapped in. I know HowArt League is a really important group. But two groups that were really important to me and they-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... are, um, they, um, are no longer, um, operating or together-
Tim Fulton Okay
April Sunami ... is Mother Artists at Work and Creative, um, um, Creative Arts of Women.
Tim Fulton Okay.
April Sunami So those are two really pivotal groups for me that kind of further pushed me and, um, um, kind of helped nurture me-
Tim Fulton Yeah
April Sunami ... as an artist. And, um, also just provided very special people in my life who have helped, you know, guide me along and mentor me and-
Tim Fulton Yeah
April Sunami ... um, you know, just give me different opportunities, so.
Tim Fulton How important was it for you to be involved in groups that were, groups that were your peers? You know, these were, uh, first of all, you know, women of color. There was, assume that the motherhood group was-
April Sunami Oh, mothers, yeah.
Tim Fulton ... artist, artists that are mothers. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I'm gonna refer to it as sort of a safe space to-
April Sunami Yeah. Mm
Tim Fulton ... um, show and create and, and interact with artists.
April Sunami Well, that's it, you know? I mean, sometimes, um, those are the groups that kind of welcome me with open arms-
Tim Fulton Yeah
April Sunami ... you know? And it was like I had somebody who was like, you know, was like, "Hey, come join this group."
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami Um, some other groups you don't necessarily have, you know, have that, someone that-
Tim Fulton Mm.
April Sunami I mean, it's important to seek those groups out, you know, if you are looking for, um, you know, a way to be in community with other artists.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami You do. You have to have that. But, um, but in, in both of these cases it was just like, "Hey, why don't you go check this out?" Or, you know, "I've heard a lot about them." And you go and you just, you have a lot in common with everybody.
Tim Fulton Right.
April Sunami You know? You vibe with everybody who's there. Um, and you, you respect the art that is being produced, um, by some of the people. So that's, yeah.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
April Sunami That's it.
Tim Fulton Cool.
April Sunami Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton April, thank you so much for your time.
April Sunami Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me and it was, this was a, this was a good time.
Tim Fulton Absolutely.
April Sunami Thanks.
Tim Fulton Thank you for listening to The Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite mixed media artist. If you're interested in sponsoring The Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.