Save the Crew

Tim Fulton 0:11Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, we are talking about the phenomenon that is Save the Crew. First up, a short primer from local video creator, writer, and journalist Nils Root on how we got here and what is at stake. After that, hear from Save the Crew representative Tobias Radinger on how Save the Crew got started, how they're structured, what guides them, where we are now, their bold mission forward, analyzing where things are going from here, and I make a call for community action beyond Save the Crew. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored this week by Little Rock Bar. Little Rock Bar is located at 944 North Fourth Street in Italian Village. With 30 beers on tap, Little Rock Bar has happy hour from 4:00 to 7:00 PM every day. Every Tuesday, get $3 draft beers all night while you enjoy Rock Your Cock Off karaoke. Wednesdays is Everybody's a Comedian, hosted by Travis Haywicher. It's like trivia, but you prove your snark instead of smarts. Info, hours, and upcoming events at littlerockbar.net. Everyone's night should have a little rock. Enjoy the interview.

Nils Root 2:02Last fall, it was announced that Columbus Crew SC, which is the Major League Soccer club here in town, was going to be moving, or at least trying to move to Austin, Texas. Since then, a lot of things have been said by a lot of different people, and there has been a large grassroots movement to, quote, "Save the Crew" and keep them in Columbus. I experienced most of these updates as headlines in my Facebook feed that I didn't do a good job of keeping track of. So I read about it, and now I'm making this video to bring myself and anyone else who's a bit confused up to date. Real quick, I just wanna say that much of the reporting done for this video was done by Lauren Neupof of Columbus Business First, Andrew Erickson of Columbus Dispatch, and Kevin Little of Austin American Statesman, and all three of those publications have paywalls, so somebody owes me a beer. Just kidding, don't buy me a beer, but you should subscribe and support your local news outlets. All right. I think the best way to cover this whole thing is with a timeline of events starting at October 17th, 2017, when the owner of the Crew, Anthony Precourt, released a statement saying that he's exploring the possibility of moving the club to Austin. This did not mean the team was moving for sure, but yeah, not a great sign. Precourt blamed this decision to explore his options on a lack of local support in the form of poor attendance and corporate sponsorships, and that he wasn't able to build a new stadium in downtown Columbus. All of this, the announcement itself, and the pissiness about not having a stadium downtown seemed to catch our mayor, Andy Ginther, as well as the CEO of the Columbus Partnership, Alex Fisher, off guard. I'm paraphrasing here, but Ginther and Fisher were basically like, "What the are you talking about, Anthony?" Fisher immediately pointed out that Columbus business leaders had previously offered to buy half or all of the team at an independently valued price, had rallied additional sponsorship and corporate support, and had studied how and where a downtown stadium might be built, all prior to this announcement from Precourt. Side note, the Columbus Partnership is a group of 65 local CEOs who get together to make important economic decisions for the region, almost like a Midwest Illuminati, except way more boring, and it actually exists. Alex Fisher leads that organization and is basically this super nice, smart, wholesome guy who we trust with a lot of important things in our community. I don't really know him, but he does come off very not slimy, if that makes sense, which is important because he's not an elected official, and again, we trust him with a lot of important stuff. Mayor Ginther responded to Precourt's announcement by pointing out that he and the city had received little to no communication from Precourt, and that he didn't even know this was coming until the announcement was made public. Precourt's announcement on the 17th did not surprise the MLS commissioner, Don Garber, who on the same day released a statement voicing his support for Precourt and cited the same talking points about the Crew's stadium situation and lack of local support. As a result of the surprising announcement, Crew fans freaked the out. On October 22nd, several thousand Crew fans rallied downtown at City Hall, voicing their support for the team and lack of support, to put it mildly, for Precourt's new exploration. Local leaders and celebs spoke at the event, and it was basically everything you'd expect from a large group of people with a shared love for something who recently learned that they might be losing that something. Morgan Hughes organized the rally and proclaimed from the steps of City Hall, quote, "If you came here for a funeral, if you came here for a wake, you're in the wrong place. This is not over." Mm. Goosebumps. So at this point, you have the announcement from Precourt to potentially probably leave Columbus for Austin, support for Precourt from MLS's top brass, the surprised reactions from Columbus leaders, and a large and growing grassroots #savethecrew movement started by the Crew's fan base. Let's keep going. Over the next few weeks, you would see Save the Crew support everywhere, bars, cars, trucks, and other MLS stadiums, behind the set of College GameDay, and even in the stands of international contests abroad. Now, if you're not familiar with the MLS schedule, it's important to point out that Precourt's announcement did not happen during the off season. In fact, on October 26th, the Crew entered the league's playoffs as a fifth seed in the Eastern Conference and went on a terror. They beat Atlanta in the knockout round, New York in the conference semis, and were one goal away from making it to another MLS cup, but lost to the eventual MLS cup champion, Toronto FC, at the end of November. As you would imagine, the home games for these playoff contests were an insane atmosphere. Obviously, the fans were showing support for the Crew, but also as a way to show Precourt and Garber and the rest of the country that Columbus is a fantastic place for an MLS club.

Tim Fulton 6:41C-R-E-W. you, Precourt. We are the Crew.

Nils Root 6:47While the Crew were on that underdog playoff run, our Columbus duo from earlier in this video, Mayor Ginther and Alex Fisher, met with Precourt and Commissioner Garber in New York City on November 15th to discuss... I honestly don't know what they were supposed to talk about, but it did not go well. The statements released by the two groups after the meeting were so conflicting that it makes you wonder which one of these guys were lying here. Ginther and Fisher said, quote, "We were disappointed and frustrated. We were united in putting all options on the table with the expectation in return that the MLS ownership would cease pursuing moving the team to Austin." But Precourt said, quote, "We were extremely disappointed that no concrete offer or proposal was presented." Again, that's the city saying all options were on the table and Precourt saying no options were on the table. So then Ginther and Fisher sent a public letter to Precourt on November 29th saying, actually, quote, "As you recall, we shared three publicly-owned sites for a potential new stadium in Columbus," close quote, and clap back. One of those sites presented was the Expo Center near the current stadium, which doesn't seem to be what Precourt claims to want, but the other two sites are both downtown city-owned riverfront properties. They are Berliner Park, just west of German Village, and Dodge Recreation Center, which is in Franklinton across the river from the Brewery District. So does it matter whose statement was more truthful after the meeting in New York? Not really, if the goal is just to end up with the Crew in Columbus, but I think it's worth pointing out that there does seem to be strikingly different levels of authenticity here. I'm saying one might infer that Precourt is being a bit disingenuous throughout this process. Side note, and speaking of disingenuous, I'm gonna jump ahead on our timeline real quick, because I wanna point out that in a podcast published on January 25th, 2018, MLS Commission Garber shared that when Precourt purchased the Crew from the Hunt family, the MLS allowed a special escape clause in the contract saying that Precourt couldn't move the club unless it was to Austin, Texas. Also, and maybe more significantly, Garber shared in that same podcast that Precourt wasn't even confident in the Crew's long-term viability in Columbus when he bought the club. Man. All right, we've made it to December 7th, and to one of the craziest, most bizarre wrinkles in this story, and that's when Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine released a statement where he draws our attention to an Ohio law that states that a sports team owner can't move a team that has received financial assistance from the public without giving the city or a private buyer the chance to purchase the team at a reasonable price. Where the hell did that come from? Okay, do you guys remember Art Modell, or Art Modell, as he was known in my house growing up? This Ohio law DeWine is referencing was passed in 1996 as a direct response to the baloney Art Modell pulled moving the Cleveland Browns to Baltimore. Now, at this point, DeWine isn't filing a suit. He's just saying, "I've got a law, and I'm not afraid to use it. Also, I'm running for governor. Please clap." All right, now we need to turn our attention to Austin, Texas. I've never been to Austin, keep it weird, hook 'em horns, catch me at South by Texas, but it does seem like a pretty cool place. My cousin Travis lives there, and he's a super cool dude, and, and, and a really interesting thing about Austin, Texas, is that this winter, Austinites began speaking out against Precourt building a soccer stadium on the locations that Precourt desires most. According to the Columbus Dispatch, the three most viable locations for a new stadium in Austin are believed to be Butler Shores Metro Park, Roy Guerrero Park, and McCullough Place. So far, Austinites have protested the building of a new stadium on Butler Shores Metro Park, and as a result, Precourt removed that site from consideration on January 26th. That was his top pick for a place to build a new stadium. Then on February 27th, Austin Rec Department voted unanimously to have the Roy Guerrero Park removed from consideration after locals protested Precourt's interest in building there. And an 11 to nothing vote, even if it's non-binding, is no small message. The third property up for consideration is McCullough Place, but Austin City Council member Leslie Pool, who represents the district where McCullough Place is located, said she'd rather Precourt found a privately-owned plot of land to build on, which he definitely would rather not do, or she said he'll have to finance the infrastructure improvements required around the McCullough Place property, which would obviously be super expensive for him to do. This is clearly not the, "Come on down to Austin," Precourt was likely expecting, but he's not giving up either. On March 1st, Precourt spoke publicly for the first time since October, and he reiterated his interest in moving the Crew to Austin, and that both Roy Guerrero Park and McCullough Place are still being considered as potential build sites for his stadium, as well as other undisclosed private properties closer to the downtown. He also made a claim that the move will benefit Austin in various ways and to the tune of $400 million. Our final update, unless something happens while I'm editing this, comes from the OG AG Mike DeWine, who announced on March 5th that the city of Columbus and the state of Ohio are in fact teaming up to file a lawsuit against Precourt and the MLS under that Art Modell law. The lawsuit alleges that the Crew has benefited from public funds in the form of parking lot improvements, property tax exemptions, below market lease rates for that property, and other infrastructure improvements around the stadium paid for or reimbursed with public funds. So here we are. We've made it to today. I don't know what will happen with that lawsuit. It's never been tested in the courts, and it could very well be deemed unconstitutional, but it is a law, and it will be tested now. The Crew is still in Columbus, and their 2018 season started on March 3rd. What kind of season will it be? Do we treat the Crew like it's a friend who might move away, so we squeeze every ounce of enjoyment out of them before they go? Or is it like a girlfriend broke up with us, but she's staying in the apartment until the lease is up? In the longer run, and as I understand it, it looks like there are three potential outcomes here. First, Precourt and the city of Austin find a plot of land they're both happy with, and the Crew moves to Austin. This would mean the Crew is out of Columbus by 2020, and that would be a brutal outcome for Crew fans and the city of Columbus. A second option would be Precourt sells the franchise, and the team stays in Columbus. This could be the result of the Art Modell law forcing Precourt's hand, or Precourt realizes he's stuck between a city who loves his team but loathes him, and a city who just doesn't have an ideal place for his stadium. This is also known as a rock and a hard place, and Precourt decides his best option is out. Also, I didn't mention this on our timeline, but in November, James Watt, who is the co-founder and CEO of BrewDog, offered to help purchase the team and then sell at least half of the team to Crew fans, which is wild to think about. Quick side note, BrewDog is like the Sam Adams of the UK, and they recently made Columbus its US headquarters. A third option would be, you ready? A lot of people swallow their pride, and we, Precourt, the city, the fan base, make it work in Columbus. This is a tough one to envision because it wouldn't be easy for everyone to swallow their pride. But it might be worth it, because keeping the Crew with an imperfect owner is undefinably better than losing the Crew completely.

Tim Fulton 14:12Sitting down here with Tobias Reidinger, representing Save the Crew. Tobias, how are you, sir?

Nils Root 14:17I'm doing well, thank you. How are you?

Tim Fulton 14:18Good. For those that aren't aware, haven't picked up a, a newspaper or followed any of this, tell us what Save the Crew is.

Nils Root 14:27Sure. So about, uh, s- a little over seven months ago, uh, the current investor operator of the Columbus Crew, which is our local MLS soccer team here, um, uh, basically threatened to move the team to Austin, Texas. Uh, it kinda came out of the blue, took everyone by surprise, and, uh, immediately within 48 hours, Save the Crew was born, and it was, uh, strictly a movement, grassroots, volunteer-driven, uh, to keep the team from moving.

Tim Fulton 14:54Okay. Were you affiliated at all with, like, the... Obviously, you're a Crew fan, you followed the Crew, but the-

Nils Root 15:00Yeah

Tim Fulton 15:00... the sort of affinity groups that were surrounding the Crew before that?

Nils Root 15:04No, I was not. In fact, um, I found out about all of this because, uh, I saw an Instagram post. Uh-

Tim Fulton 15:10Okay

Nils Root 15:10... a friend of mine owns a co-working space called Haven, and the very first Save the Crew meeting was at their co-working space. Um, and I saw an Instagram post about it, uh, looked at it and said, "Oh, I should be involved with this, but I don't know any of these people at all."

Tim Fulton 15:24Okay. And so who was at that first meeting?

Nils Root 15:27Um, it was most of the people that are on the, the core leadership group, uh, right now. There's about 15 to 18 of us.

Tim Fulton 15:33Okay.

Nils Root 15:33Um, and that's, uh, kind of the heads of all the committees. So it's things like outreach and, you know, ticket sales, and Fill the Fray, and Community Assist, and all the things that we've been doing. There's, there's a representative from each one of those groups there.

Tim Fulton 15:46Okay. And you guys are incorporated as an LLC. While there are heads of all these individual committees, is there, like, a person that is in charge? How is... What, what is the structure, basically?

Nils Root 15:56Yeah, so the, the structure's been the, the cause of much, much speculation and debate, right?

Tim Fulton 16:01Okay.

Nils Root 16:02So when we were first founded, there was no... You know, it had to be done in a hurry.

Tim Fulton 16:06Mm-hmm.

Nils Root 16:06And, uh, so one of the supporter groups, uh, Crew Union, uh, said, "Okay, we'll just, we'll handle everything." So to date, uh, all the finances, everything has essentially been run through Crew Union, uh, under the auspices of, uh, Save the Crew.

Tim Fulton 16:22Okay.

Nils Root 16:22Um, so the, the legal structure behind it was that. A little while ago, for various reasons, we did form an LLC.

Tim Fulton 16:28Mm-hmm.

Nils Root 16:29Um, and it was, uh, primarily formed as a just in case-

Tim Fulton 16:34Okay

Nils Root 16:34... um, thing. We've used it a little bit, but, but still the, uh, the majority of our operations still run under the umbrella of, of Crew Union supporter group.

Tim Fulton 16:41Because while this is all happening, there are, and we'll get into it in a minute, there are legal aspects of this. Were you concerned that there sort of needed to be a third-party organization in case shit hit the fan?

Nils Root 16:55Yeah, a little bit. Um, I don't think that we were ever concerned about being sued or-

Tim Fulton 17:00Okay

Nils Root 17:00... anything like that. It was, it was more, you know, uh, governments really like to be able to track money-

Tim Fulton 17:06Right

Nils Root 17:06... and where it goes, and we were selling merchandise, and there was a lot of, lot of things out there. And at the time, we were considering launching some of the initiatives that we're just now launching, and we were kind of looking forward to the future and thinking, "If this goes on for six months, a year, and we all kinda have to keep plugging away at this, um, we're gonna need a, a more defined structure."

Tim Fulton 17:25Mm-hmm.

Nils Root 17:26Um, so it was created out of necessity, uh, more than desire.

Tim Fulton 17:31And not necessarily out of worry, but-

Nils Root 17:34Correct

Tim Fulton 17:34... you just wanted to do things properly.

Nils Root 17:35Correct, yeah.

Tim Fulton 17:36Got it. So who, I'm gonna just phrase this as directly as I can, who is in charge?

Tobias Radinger 17:41Um, that's a good question. So there, there are about, like I said, there are about 15 to 18 of us that are, that are on there-

Tim Fulton 17:48Okay

Tobias Radinger 17:48... um, on that, that core board. Um, and it's made up of people like myself. Uh, so I own a small advertising agency here in town.

Tim Fulton 17:55Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 17:56Um, you know, probably the most public facing is Morgan Hughes. He gets out and about a lot, is on a lot of news stations. You know, there's a guy named Keith Noss who's, uh, involved in a lot of the data analytics.

Tim Fulton 18:07Okay.

Tobias Radinger 18:08Uh, John Zidar, who's doing a lot of the graphic design and kind of the brand management. Um, then there's several other people in kind of the marketing communication side of things. Um, a guy named Darby who does a lot of the outreach. Um, a guy named Nate who does all, all the Fill the Frays stuff. And so there's a lot of people that are involved and all have, uh, integral roles in this. Um, so I would say that it's, you know, fairly democratic.

Tim Fulton 18:33Okay.

Tobias Radinger 18:33When, when things have to be decided, we, we meet. Um, we actually for seven months, that group, um, that group's changed a little bit over time, but for seven months, that group has been meeting once a week every week for about two hours. I don't want to think about how many hours that actually is, but it's-

Tim Fulton 18:49Right

Tobias Radinger 18:49... it's a lot of time. Um, and then outside of that, we're all obviously putting in more time and, and effort, but those are the people who are kind of l- leading main initiatives, uh, and making them happen.

Tim Fulton 19:00Okay. Talk to me about the initiatives that you guys have put in place up to this point.

Tobias Radinger 19:05Right. So up to this point, we've done a lot of, you know, community outreach, uh, in addition to just awareness about the, the efforts. Starting several months ago, we, we noticed that a lot of what was going on, uh, with the team be- potentially being moved was, uh, there were community aspects that had just been done away with by the front office over time and-

Tim Fulton 19:25Okay

Tobias Radinger 19:26... um, like one of them is like Spanish outreach.

Tim Fulton 19:28Okay.

Tobias Radinger 19:28Um, used to be a big thing. Games used to be kind of announced in both languages.

Tim Fulton 19:33Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 19:34That went away. There used to be somebody whose job was to do outreach to the Spanish community. That was done away with.

Tim Fulton 19:39Okay.

Tobias Radinger 19:40So we started to look at things like that. We also started to look at some of the disadvantaged, uh, ticket programs and say, you know, there are some things like this we could do. So one of the things we started was the Community Assist Program, where for every home game so far this season, uh, we've partnered with a nonprofit, and we have, you know, people, uh, from the community have donated their tickets. Uh, they've either bought tickets directly to donate-

Tim Fulton 20:05Mm-hmm

Tobias Radinger 20:05... or they've donated their season tickets.

Tim Fulton 20:07Okay.

Tobias Radinger 20:07And-

Tim Fulton 20:08Like they can't go to a game-

Tobias Radinger 20:09Yeah

Tim Fulton 20:09... so here's my ticket.

Tobias Radinger 20:10Exactly. And we've sent, we've sent a group of, of disadvantaged people to every home game so far, uh, this season. Um-

Tim Fulton 20:19About how many folks each game?

Tobias Radinger 20:20It varies from game to game and from nonprofit to nonprofit.

Tim Fulton 20:23Okay.

Tobias Radinger 20:23Um, sometimes it's just been a few. Um, but we've had as many as, I think the first, the first game we had 60 go from-

Tim Fulton 20:30Oh, wow

Tobias Radinger 20:30... CHRIS. Uh, we had, I know we had 40 one game. We had 20 from another game. So, and then we had just like five or 10 from, from another game. So it's-

Tim Fulton 20:37And that initiative is ongoing. That's something that if a nonprofit was interested in partnering with you guys-

Tobias Radinger 20:42Yes

Tim Fulton 20:42... anything from a community center to, I imagine it tends to be like community centers, right?

Tobias Radinger 20:48Yeah, it tends to be like, you know, you know, Boys & Girls Club-

Tim Fulton 20:50Mm-hmm

Tobias Radinger 20:50... and CHRIS and, and things like focused on children.

Tim Fulton 20:53Okay.

Tobias Radinger 20:53Um, but this is something that we, we see going on for, you know, the duration of the, of the season, and ideally, we would like this to, to then have a life of its own, you know, once o- once our organization is no longer needed and-

Tim Fulton 21:06Okay

Tobias Radinger 21:07... someone new owns the team, and hopefully they just carry it forward.

Tim Fulton 21:10Okay.

Tobias Radinger 21:11So we've done things like that. We also held a, a free open, uh, youth clinic.

Tim Fulton 21:15Okay.

Tobias Radinger 21:15We partnered with the Columbus Eagles, so the, the women's team here in town.

Tim Fulton 21:19Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 21:20They sent players. We had some, you know, professional, uh, level coaches and, and trainers come in and ran a youth clinic, uh, for free. Really, really focused at those kind of community-based, uh, initiatives.

Tim Fulton 21:32Okay. And then there's a business partnership aspect of it too, right?

Tobias Radinger 21:37There is a business partnership. Pretty simple.

Tim Fulton 21:39Okay.

Tobias Radinger 21:39We went out in the community and we said, "All right, Columbus, we're being told that businesses don't care about this team."

Tim Fulton 21:44Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 21:44And businesses sort of went, um, "Yes, we do." And so to date, we've signed up nearly 400 businesses who have said, "We care about this team. We're interested in having them stay here." Some of them, it's as simple as just saying like, "Yes, we're, we're signing on. Please take our logo."

Tim Fulton 22:00And they put a sticker on the door.

Tobias Radinger 22:01Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:01Right.

Tobias Radinger 22:01A sticker. Some of them have actually sponsored us financially.

Tim Fulton 22:04Okay.

Tobias Radinger 22:04Um, so, uh, companies like Compton Construction-

Tim Fulton 22:07Mm-hmm

Tobias Radinger 22:08... um, have donated money. They sponsored our Community Kit jersey that we created. Uh, Safelite, which is, you know, a national-

Tim Fulton 22:15Yeah

Tobias Radinger 22:15... brand. Uh, they also were a jersey sponsor, so we had some, some money come in that way. Um, and then all that money, whether it's from merchandise or donations, ha- is goes directly back into kind of marketing efforts to raise awareness that this is going on and, and to try and keep the team here.

Tim Fulton 22:34Okay. And it sounds like from what you're saying, a lot of the actions that you guys are, are making are sort of filling the gaps of changes that were made in anticipation of moving the team or awareness of moving the team. Is that how sort of you're coming up? Because you're addressing, you know, the Spanish outreach aspect. You're addressing doing more outreach to community organizations and then also raising awareness of the situation because you guys are not the ones suing Precourt Ventures.

Tobias Radinger 23:05No, not at all.

Tim Fulton 23:06You're not the ones... You don't imagine that you'll be raising the mo- Save the Crew is not gonna buy the crew.

Tobias Radinger 23:12No. Dear God, no.

Tim Fulton 23:13Okay. Is that how you're sort of framing, like, what are the things we need to be doing?

Tobias Radinger 23:19I think the way that we're framing it is-

Tim Fulton 23:21What's your gu- what's guiding you?

Tobias Radinger 23:23Yeah. So I think, I think that we look at this and we say, all right, if we were, if we were running the front office and we were looking at all the opportunities there were to talk about this team-

Tim Fulton 23:35Mm-hmm

Tobias Radinger 23:35... and to, uh, bring awareness and also to, you know, look, we're from the Midwest, and I think that there's a, there's a sense of like doing good in your community.

Tim Fulton 23:44Right.

Tobias Radinger 23:44So if we were running this, what would we do? And, and some of that's the outreach, some of that's awareness, some of that's just straight up marketing and advertising. You know, it's, it's taking out ads saying, "Hey, we haven't seen ads for the, for the team. We haven't seen ads for the game, so we're going to place some."

Tim Fulton 23:58Okay.

Tobias Radinger 23:59Um, and so it's, yeah, it's filling gaps where we, where we see things missing.

Tim Fulton 24:03Line up for me what the arguments that Precourt Ventures has made for moving the team.

Tobias Radinger 24:09Oh my goodness. They're, they are-

Tim Fulton 24:10'Cause it's, 'cause-

Tobias Radinger 24:11... varied, uh, ever-shifting and ridiculous.

Tim Fulton 24:14Well, but your initiatives are trying to address them, right?

Tobias Radinger 24:18Initially they were, yeah.

Tim Fulton 24:19Okay.

Tobias Radinger 24:19So the, the very first few things that we rolled out were in direct opposition to those initi- or to those claims.

Tim Fulton 24:25And so tell me about those claims-

Tobias Radinger 24:27Yeah

Tim Fulton 24:27... as you know them.

Tobias Radinger 24:28So the, the first thing that, that really happened was, um, you know, Precourt Sports Ventures and MLS and all, all those kind of the variety of organizations involved came out and said, "There's no fan support here." Well, that looks a really bad from a PR standpoint to start blaming your fans. That's sort of like saying, "I make a potato chip. No one's eating my potato chip. It's everyone's fault." Like, "I don't need to address my product. I don't need to address the people marketing it."

Tim Fulton 24:55Okay.

Tobias Radinger 24:55Like, "It's, it's the fans' fault."

Tim Fulton 24:57Okay.

Tobias Radinger 24:58And so they just got blazed in the media. There was a lot of, lot of issues with that. So they very quickly changed their story and said, "Well, actually, the problem is the business community here sucks. Uh, no one supports us. We try and raise money." So then, you know, s- in the news, partnership comes out and says, "Well, you know that Acura sponsorship you just got? Well, we made that happen for you."

Tim Fulton 25:18Right.

Tobias Radinger 25:18"We sat down with you and we, we did all this." And other businesses came forward and said, "No, we've been, you know, we've been doing this on an ongoing basis. In fact, you know, we raise our thing every year or every couple years." And so that got debunked. And so the, the, the narrative that they spin keeps trying to change. And then it shifted to, "Well, you know, the, the real problem is the stadium's old, it's outdated."

Tim Fulton 25:40Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 25:40Uh, "It needs to be replaced. The place is a dump. It needs to be downtown." And on record are people like, you know, the commissioner of MLS six, eight, 12 months before talking about how Mapfre Stadium was like a shining jewel in the spirit of, you know, American soccer.

Tim Fulton 25:58Right.

Tobias Radinger 25:58And so, you know, the, the story has shifted to suit the, uh, the narrative of we want to move versus it being based in any kind of reality.

Tim Fulton 26:08Why do you think they would do that rather than just move? That the argument becomes, "We can't possibly stay here because the fan base, because of the business community not supporting us," rather than just moving. 'Cause they have to get the support of some other municipality because they want to be basically let out of it?

Tobias Radinger 26:30Well, I think there's a, a... I'm not an expert on all of this, but I think-

Tim Fulton 26:33Okay

Tobias Radinger 26:33... there's a couple, there's a couple pieces going on. First, I think that this news got announced before they were ready to announce it.

Tim Fulton 26:40Okay.

Tobias Radinger 26:41So that's one piece. The second piece is I think that the current investor/operator wants to be in Austin for some inexplicable reason.

Tim Fulton 26:48Okay.

Tobias Radinger 26:48He just really apparently loves it there. I mean, maybe South by Southwest is that awesome. Um, but it only happens-

Tim Fulton 26:53Austin's a great place, but-

Tobias Radinger 26:54Yeah.

Tim Fulton 26:54Yeah.

Tobias Radinger 26:54I mean, no, no doubt, but I think that, that there's an affinity there for that location. So that's, that's a part of it.

Tim Fulton 27:02And there's a... The theory is, is that he bought it with the intention of moving it.

Tobias Radinger 27:06That is what it appears.

Tim Fulton 27:07Okay.

Tobias Radinger 27:08Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's difficult, I think, to make a, a, an, a different argument-

Tim Fulton 27:14Okay

Tobias Radinger 27:14... uh, that, that maybe that wasn't the case and he tried in good faith. It just doesn't look that way.

Tim Fulton 27:18And-

Tobias Radinger 27:18I mean, maybe that's, you know, I, I could be wrong, but-

Tim Fulton 27:20Right

Tobias Radinger 27:21... you know, all the signs point to, you know, sort of, you know, uh, cracking open the piggy bank and stealing as much as possible before you cart it off.

Tim Fulton 27:28Got it. And at this point, Major League Soccer is supportive of sort of whatever Precourt Ventures wants to do with the team, it seems.

Tobias Radinger 27:37It appears that way, yes. I mean, they're, you know, the, the suit that the city and state of Ohio have filed, uh, name both of them kind of in a, in a co manner.

Tim Fulton 27:47Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 27:48Um, and part of that, I think, is because people don't truly understand how MLS works.

Tim Fulton 27:52Okay.

Tobias Radinger 27:53Uh, MLS is a single entity structure, which means that owners don't actually own the team. They invest in that team.

Tim Fulton 27:59Okay.

Tobias Radinger 27:59Every team in MLS is actually owned by Major League Soccer.

Tim Fulton 28:04Okay.

Tobias Radinger 28:04And so if you wanted to, to own the Columbus Crew, you wouldn't actually be an owner. You would essentially give them a certain amount of money to have shares and the right to operate that team.

Tim Fulton 28:15Okay. So it would be basically a co-owner with the MLS.

Tobias Radinger 28:19Yes.

Tim Fulton 28:19Are there other leagues that are structured that way?

Tobias Radinger 28:22Um, I mean, it's a very franchise-based model, right?

Tim Fulton 28:25Okay.

Tobias Radinger 28:25I mean, it's... I'm not as aware of kind of the other legal structures of all the other sports-

Tim Fulton 28:30Got it

Tobias Radinger 28:30... uh, ventures, but, but I mean, that's essentially what it means. So, um, one of the reasons that, you know, they're all named in this suit, uh, and the reason that MLS is backing this to a, to a degree is, uh, in some ways they almost have to, right?

Tim Fulton 28:44Okay.

Tobias Radinger 28:44They're, they're, they're a little stuck in the fact that an operator w- of one of their teams says, "I want to do this thing." They've given him great latitude to operate the team.

Tim Fulton 28:53Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 28:53And now they're kind of in a position where if they back off of that too quickly, you know, what-

Tim Fulton 28:57Well, it's their prerogative to keep their investor happy.

Tobias Radinger 29:00Right.

Tim Fulton 29:00Um-

Tobias Radinger 29:00And what other investor operator is then going to come to them and say, "Well, I also want that option."

Tim Fulton 29:04Right.

Tobias Radinger 29:05"Why, why did you just capitulate to this town?"

Tim Fulton 29:07Right. And so right now the lawsuit is sort of demanding the opportunity for a third party to come in and purchase Precourt Ventures' stake.

Tobias Radinger 29:17Yeah, s- sort of. The Art Modell law, kind of as it's known-

Tim Fulton 29:22Right

Tobias Radinger 29:22... essentially states that, you know, a team is, is requi- a team that takes, uh, taxpayer money-

Tim Fulton 29:28Mm-hmm

Tobias Radinger 29:28... and this is in direct result of the Browns kind of absconding in the middle of the night-

Tim Fulton 29:32Right

Tobias Radinger 29:32... um, that, that that team has to give a notice to the municipality or the state or the organization th- that they're in.

Tim Fulton 29:41So whatever entity they took tax dollars from.

Tobias Radinger 29:43Yeah, they have to give-

Tim Fulton 29:44Right

Tobias Radinger 29:44... them appropriate notice and, um, that as opposed to just leaving, they have to give a local interest the ability to bid on it.

Tim Fulton 29:53Okay.

Tobias Radinger 29:53So it's not forcing a sale. It is... You know, there's been a lot of talk about, "Well, isn't this breaking commerce laws?" It doesn't state that you must take that. It simply says you must entertain-

Tim Fulton 30:03Okay

Tobias Radinger 30:04... those, like-

Tim Fulton 30:05So it's not-

Tobias Radinger 30:05... legitimate offers.

Tim Fulton 30:06It's not eminent domain.

Tobias Radinger 30:08Correct.

Tim Fulton 30:09But they have to entertain legitimate offers. And so there's also a- an aspect of this of, and I'm only surface aware of it, that it's been demanded, "Hey, you gotta show us your books-"

Tobias Radinger 30:21Correct

Tim Fulton 30:21... "in order to let a third-party buyer Audit them, figure out like where everything is in order to determine a fair price.

Tobias Radinger 30:30Right, because it's like, it's like buying anything. Unless you know what it's, the value is, how can you make an, an appropriate offer?

Tim Fulton 30:36Right.

Tobias Radinger 30:37Um, and so to date, a lot of offers have been kind of dismissed, you know, out of hand saying, "Well, that's not enough money." And so the, you know, part of this is saying, well you-

Tim Fulton 30:45Have formal offers been made at this point?

Tobias Radinger 30:47I guess I don't know that for sure.

Tim Fulton 30:48Okay.

Tobias Radinger 30:49Uh, what I do know is that Mayor Ginther and Alex Fisher of The Columbus Partnership have said that there are interested buyers-

Tim Fulton 30:56Okay

Tobias Radinger 30:56... um, that are out there. Um, and that they are very, very interested in, in making a, making a deal. Um, but we do, we also do know that, you know, back when the Crew was first sold, um, there were a couple offers that were made that MLS basically came out and said, "Uh, those were just too low."

Tim Fulton 31:13Okay.

Tobias Radinger 31:13But there was no rationale as to why, and so I think that's part of, part of this right now is just, uh, how do you value something if the books are closed and everything is kind of owned in, uh, by this one organization?

Tim Fulton 31:26Right. Well, and let's say they end up opening up their books either through court order or by their own choice. What does entertaining an offer mean? Like if they, if, you know, if somebody comes in at 25% above market and they still say no-

Tobias Radinger 31:40Right

Tim Fulton 31:40... how do you settle that matter?

Tobias Radinger 31:43Well that's, that's where-

Tim Fulton 31:44And that's it, because this lawsuit-

Tobias Radinger 31:45Yeah

Tim Fulton 31:45... or excuse me, this law hasn't actually been... This is the test of it, right?

Tobias Radinger 31:49Yeah, this law's never been tested, and there's not another one on the books in the US that anyone's aware of.

Tim Fulton 31:55Really?

Tobias Radinger 31:55So, uh, no one's ever tried a law like this. No one knows if this works. No one knows if this is constitutional. There's a lot of issues at play here. And I think that, you know, one of the, uh, everyone that I know who's kind of on the legal side, you start talking to them about this and they light up. They're like, "This is so exciting." And you're like-

Tim Fulton 32:10It's interesting, right? Yeah

Tobias Radinger 32:11... you're like, "I, I don't understand half the words that are coming out of your mouth, but I'm just gonna believe that this is as interesting as, as you say it is." But no, I think, I think that there are a bunch of parts of this that are all intertwined, and that's what makes this so complex, right? So you asked about kind of what, what makes a legitimate offer.

Tim Fulton 32:29Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 32:30And the, the challenge with that is, A, with- without the books you don't know. Um, but B, you know, if you're on the other side, you could simply say, "Well, to me a legitimate offer is like 1,000% above market." You know, what, you know, how do, how do you determine that? So one of the things that happened within the, the court order was, uh, the, uh, some pieces of language, and this is again, I'm not a lawyer, so this is as best as I understand it.

Tim Fulton 32:56Got it.

Tobias Radinger 32:57But one of the things that the judge said is that both sides within the lawsuit need to come together, and they need to have an agreement on what a bona fide buyer looks like.

Tim Fulton 33:06Okay.

Tobias Radinger 33:07And that if they won't do that, the court will decide.

Tim Fulton 33:10And so the other side is the state and the city.

Tobias Radinger 33:12Correct.

Tim Fulton 33:13Okay.

Tobias Radinger 33:13Yeah. So the judge is essentially saying like, "You guys need to come together. You need to agree on what a, a fair and reasonable offer looks like, and if you can't agree to that-"

Tim Fulton 33:22I'm gonna cut the baby in half for you.

Tobias Radinger 33:24"... I'm gonna, yeah, play Solomon." Right?

Tim Fulton 33:25Right.

Tobias Radinger 33:26Yeah.

Tim Fulton 33:26That's interesting. So how do you guys fit into the larger ecosystem of the actions that the state's making? I'm thinking more about the actions and the statements that Mayor Ginther is making along with Alex Fisher at the Partnership. Are those folks talking to you guys?

Tobias Radinger 33:44Um, not really. I mean, we, we mostly-

Tim Fulton 33:47You're, you're operating as a separate entity.

Tobias Radinger 33:47We mostly do what we... Yeah.

Tim Fulton 33:49Okay.

Tobias Radinger 33:49We do what we do. They do what they do. Typically we actually know what's happening when like something hits the news.

Tim Fulton 33:55Okay.

Tobias Radinger 33:55Right? So we'll, we'll see something, you know, a statement from Alex Fisher come out and we're like, "Oh, okay. Well we, we should jump on this really fast." But yeah.

Tim Fulton 34:01Right.

Tobias Radinger 34:02We're a completely separate, separate entity.

Tim Fulton 34:04A couple of friends of mine are involved, so I see them espousing, "Isn't it great that, you know, this sportscaster was wearing a Save the Crew scarf or seeing banners in other cities?"

Tobias Radinger 34:15Yes.

Tim Fulton 34:15What do you attribute that sort of success and awareness to in the larger ecosystem? I feel like this means something bigger than just the Crew.

Tobias Radinger 34:26I would agree with that.

Tim Fulton 34:28Okay.

Tobias Radinger 34:28Um, and I think that the, part of this is soccer culture.

Tim Fulton 34:32Okay.

Tobias Radinger 34:32Um, you know-

Tim Fulton 34:33People feel just this inherent-

Tobias Radinger 34:35People-

Tim Fulton 34:35... ownership over their team.

Tobias Radinger 34:36Yeah, yeah. You feel very much like this is a club, not a franchise. Like you feel like the identity of this organization is tied to your city. And it, you know, when the, when the rebrand of the Crew happened-

Tim Fulton 34:48Mm-hmm

Tobias Radinger 34:49... um, you know, Mayor Coleman at the time actually got up and I'm gonna paraphrase this probably very poorly, but he essentially said like, "You know, the identity and destiny of the Columbus Crew and that of our city are like uniquely tied together."

Tim Fulton 35:01Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 35:01And I think that that, you know, speaks very, very much at the heart of, of how soccer fans in general feel. Um, you know, a lot of clubs in, in Europe, you know, they have 150 year history.

Tim Fulton 35:14Right.

Tobias Radinger 35:14And so, you know, here we are with this, with this team with, you know, 23 year history and someone's basically like, "I just don't like the city anymore. I'm gonna leave." And everyone-

Tim Fulton 35:22Well, and it should be noted it was one of the first-

Tobias Radinger 35:25It was the first-

Tim Fulton 35:26... major, right

Tobias Radinger 35:26... one in, in Major League Soccer. And so then everyone's says, "Wait a second, you simply don't like it here anymore. Why don't you leave and just leave this, like sell it?"

Tim Fulton 35:35Right.

Tobias Radinger 35:35You know, you can get another sports ball team. Um, you know, but, you know, you don't just steal culture away.

Tim Fulton 35:43Right.

Tobias Radinger 35:43Um, and especially since the, the league, uh, over time like their marketing slogans have been like club and city together.

Tim Fulton 35:50Right.

Tobias Radinger 35:51Like there is a scarf banner hanging on the outside of the stadium right now that says, "For Columbus."

Tim Fulton 35:56Right.

Tobias Radinger 35:56So y- you know, you essentially, your, all of your marketing push is about this is about community, this is about family, this is about belonging to the city. And then you're like, "Oh, just kidding. We don't actually mean any of that."

Tim Fulton 36:08Right.

Tobias Radinger 36:08So I think that that part of it has had a larger tie into the global community. It also means that, you know, people in Europe or people in South America, uh, when they look at this, they were like, "No one would ever dare to try and move our team."

Tim Fulton 36:23Right.

Tobias Radinger 36:23Or if they did, people would revolt. They'd be burning things in the streets. And so that makes it very easy for them to latch onto this. So we've gotten, you know, coverage in several magazines in the UK about this-

Tim Fulton 36:34Right

Tobias Radinger 36:34... just because of that. You know, people don't understand how this could even be real.

Tim Fulton 36:38Well, and from the editorial side of it, I haven't seen anybody write anything that was basically like, "I don't know why these guys are so up in arms about it." And it's been interesting from a business side of it too, right? Why would the MLS support the stakeholder in moving the team without- Sort of that public support, especially given their unique structure, that it's not just theirs.

Tobias Radinger 36:59Right, right, right. Well, and especially since there, there is no official support in the city where he wants to move. Like there is-

Tim Fulton 37:06Right

Tobias Radinger 37:06... no stadium deal. There is no, um-

Tim Fulton 37:09They're exploring it.

Tobias Radinger 37:10Yeah. They're-

Tim Fulton 37:11But they've even stepped away from previous proposals.

Tobias Radinger 37:13Oh, yeah.

Tim Fulton 37:14Right.

Tobias Radinger 37:14Yeah.

Tim Fulton 37:14Talk me through what you guys are doing during this 90-day window of discovery and negotiation to raise the profile of both the cause and of your organization.

Tobias Radinger 37:25And I think an important part of that toll was the court saying, "We're pausing this litigation because you guys need to work it out."

Tim Fulton 37:34Right.

Tobias Radinger 37:34And so what we saw as an organization was an opportunity to immediately raise a flag and say, "All right. If, if the court is saying, you know, uh, 'Hey guys, uh, time out. Let's all take a break. Get in a room together. Work, work this out,' we think there's an opportunity right now for us to make a big impact, uh, with a, with new ownership group."

Tim Fulton 37:58Okay.

Tobias Radinger 37:58Um, and really, you know, we've done a lot already to-

Tim Fulton 38:01Has that been part of the goal all along? To sort of show the statement that there's no fan support is not true. The statement that there's no business support is not true.

Tobias Radinger 38:11Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think that, you know, we absolutely know that all this support exists here. It just has to be framed, marketed, and advertised correctly.

Tim Fulton 38:20Right.

Tobias Radinger 38:21And done appropriately. Um, we've seen a, a, a huge outpouring of support, uh, both globally and in our local community. So one of the things that we did when, when we were looking at this and said... I'll back up for a second and just say that a lot, all the ideas that we get come from not only our, our immediate leadership group, but the hundreds of people that s- serve as volunteers-

Tim Fulton 38:42Right

Tobias Radinger 38:42... and support. Um, and we literally have several hundred people in our various communication channels that are all involved in different committees and going out in the community. Um, so we hear from them. We also hear from all the people on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram saying, "Oh, what about this idea?" And, "Maybe we should do this thing." And-

Tim Fulton 38:59It's how the, like, the community kick got going.

Tobias Radinger 39:01Exactly.

Tim Fulton 39:02Right.

Tobias Radinger 39:02That's exactly how that happened. Um, and it's, it's really surfaced some, some interesting things. It's also brought some things to light that our small group wouldn't have thought of, and it's like, "Sweet, we'll just... That's a brilliant idea. Like, of course we'll do that."

Tim Fulton 39:15May we?

Tobias Radinger 39:15"We can get behind it."

Tim Fulton 39:16Right, right.

Tobias Radinger 39:17Um, and the weird thing is, a lot of times people actually ask us permission like we are in charge of things. And it's sort of like, "No, we're just, we're driving the, the train and-"

Tim Fulton 39:27Right

Tobias Radinger 39:27... you know, we'll make, we'll make whatever happen possible." So out of that, one of the ideas that surfaced, and it surfaced from five or six different places, um, both inside and outside of kind of the, the core group, was this idea that, uh, we should start to take pledges for 2019 pending new ownership.

Tim Fulton 39:47Okay.

Tobias Radinger 39:47Because we know... I mean, you look at attendance. People don't wanna give their money, uh, to someone who's actively fighting litigation to leave.

Tim Fulton 39:54Right.

Tobias Radinger 39:54I mean, that just kinda makes sense. Um-

Tim Fulton 39:56'Cause currently it's possible that this is the last season.

Tobias Radinger 39:59It is. That is technically possible, though not true. Uh-

Tim Fulton 40:02Okay

Tobias Radinger 40:03... just, I'm just gonna-

Tim Fulton 40:04Go.

Tobias Radinger 40:04I'm gonna be very-

Tim Fulton 40:05Tell me

Tobias Radinger 40:06... very bold and say that, that that won't... You know, technically you're right. I mean, this could be the last season, but, um, I think that we're at a very-

Tim Fulton 40:11They're not gonna make a team dormant for a year while a stadium's being built, while everything's being finalized in Austin.

Tobias Radinger 40:17Right.

Tim Fulton 40:17Got it.

Tobias Radinger 40:18And I also feel, I also feel very strongly that the case that we've made is strong enough that they aren't going anywhere.

Tim Fulton 40:24Okay.

Tobias Radinger 40:25Um...

Tim Fulton 40:26That's a bold statement.

Tobias Radinger 40:28Yeah.

Tim Fulton 40:28Okay.

Tobias Radinger 40:29Yeah. I, I will go on record, and I've done it before. I mean, I, I think that that's, that's our position, is that this team isn't going anywhere, that, that this is very, very winnable and, and-

Tim Fulton 40:39And so your continued mission is to simply make it, quote-unquote, easier for the future ownership group.

Tobias Radinger 40:45Absolutely it is.

Tim Fulton 40:45Okay.

Tobias Radinger 40:46Yes.

Tim Fulton 40:46And so again, you're currently, at least in virtual form, collecting pledges for folks to buy tickets.

Tobias Radinger 40:52Yes.

Tim Fulton 40:53Okay.

Tobias Radinger 40:53Uh, so what we launched is this, uh, multifaceted campaign called Project 2019. The first step of it is the pledge, and the pledge is simply, uh, it's non-binding. Uh, there's no cost to do it. It's, you know, name, email address, phone number, and the number of season tickets you would buy if the team stays and has a new owner.

Tim Fulton 41:16Okay.

Tobias Radinger 41:16A locally based owner. Um, and from Save the Crew's perspective, what we've said is, you know, we will not release names, email addresses, phone numbers, any personal contact details except to a new owner.

Tim Fulton 41:31That was gonna be my follow-up.

Tobias Radinger 41:33Yeah.

Tim Fulton 41:33You're literally willing to hand over, like, "Here's a ticket buyer database."

Tobias Radinger 41:37Absolutely.

Tim Fulton 41:37"Go for it." Which is previously the current ticket buyer database is an asset that would be turned over anyway, but-

Tobias Radinger 41:45Right.

Tim Fulton 41:45Yeah.

Tobias Radinger 41:46However, what we've seen, uh, so within the first 48 hours of us launching this, we had 5,000 tickets pledged, season tickets pledged.

Tim Fulton 41:54Wow.

Tobias Radinger 41:54And if you think about the initial drive, uh, took s- took months and months and months and was aimed at 10,000, and this was years ago, but, you know, we essentially within 48 hours got half of that.

Tim Fulton 42:06Okay.

Tobias Radinger 42:07Um, and that's, that's, that's a pretty powerful statement. And we were not just getting people... We were getting people that said, "I've never had season tickets before, but I will do this." We had people say, "I've never been to a professional soccer game before, but I'm in for two."

Tim Fulton 42:21Okay.

Tobias Radinger 42:22We had a guy say, "I don't live in the US right now. I used to live in Columbus. I will buy a season ticket pack, and I will donate every game to a charity."

Tim Fulton 42:30Okay.

Tobias Radinger 42:30So we're not simply getting people that are on the current database and are there every game. We're getting a groundswell of people saying, "It's wrong for this to move, and I will back an initiative that will keep the team there, and I will put my money behind it."

Tim Fulton 42:45And not to sort of put down the idea of that, but it is essentially a petition that you're getting people to sign. I mean, peop- there's no real skin in the game, but I mean, the skin is The contact information's gonna be turned over to a new owner. And I, I guess I do believe that that's something. That's the barrier of entry that, like, these people are legit.

Tobias Radinger 43:05Right. And I mean, we, we understand that even, even if everyone on there is completely legit-

Tim Fulton 43:11Mm-hmm

Tobias Radinger 43:11... uh, which there's probably some peop- you know, who knows? Or actually, we know for sure that there are some that are not, because, uh, there was a slew of, of petitions or, uh, signatures that came in from, uh, the Austin DMA that were blatantly false, and they were attempting to screw our, skew our results pretty heavily.

Tim Fulton 43:29Okay.

Tobias Radinger 43:30Um, which was both hilarious and, uh-

Tim Fulton 43:33Gosh, why would someone do that?

Tobias Radinger 43:35Um, yeah, I don't know.

Tim Fulton 43:37And this is b- simply based-

Tobias Radinger 43:39Super strange

Tim Fulton 43:39... on IP addresses that you're seeing come through, right?

Tobias Radinger 43:41Uh, IP-

Tim Fulton 43:41That's how you know.

Tobias Radinger 43:42Yeah. W- we have a, we have a pretty good team of, uh, people on the back end doing data analytics and, and some other stuff, and-

Tim Fulton 43:49Mm-hmm

Tobias Radinger 43:49... they were able to very easily tell where these were coming from.

Tim Fulton 43:52Okay.

Tobias Radinger 43:52Um, zip code, location-based IP, some-

Tim Fulton 43:56Yeah

Tobias Radinger 43:56... other fun, fancy stuff that they're doing that I don't quite understand. And so those, you know, we basically sloughed those off, 'cause it was pretty easy to tell which ones were, you know, false.

Tim Fulton 44:07Right.

Tobias Radinger 44:08Um, so even assuming that every- everything that we're counting is valid is valid, look, life changes, right? I mean, you're, you're gonna get six months down the road, a year down the road, and a new ownership group's gonna come in and say, "All right, we're ready to, to start rolling this out." And there are gonna be people that says, "You know, I lost my job. I had a big life change," and aren't gonna be able to do it.

Tim Fulton 44:28I moved. Right.

Tobias Radinger 44:29Yeah, yeah, exactly. So at the end of the day, will this be 100%? No. Are there also gonna be people that are gonna say, "You know what? I'm even more excited now, and I said two and I'm gonna do six."

Tim Fulton 44:40Okay.

Tobias Radinger 44:40And so we know that over time this is gonna shift a little bit, and what people pledge is- isn't going to be absolutely accurate. But it allows a new ownership group to hit the ground running.

Tim Fulton 44:51Right.

Tobias Radinger 44:51So we're essentially, like, kicking them off into a sprint versus saying-

Tim Fulton 44:54You're creating a concrete asset for them is what you're doing.

Tobias Radinger 44:56Absolutely.

Tim Fulton 44:57Yeah.

Tobias Radinger 44:57And this is just step one. So, uh, next week we're launching kind of phase two of this, and then several more weeks we're launching kinda phase three-

Tim Fulton 45:06Okay

Tobias Radinger 45:07... of what Project 2019 is going to be. Um-

Tim Fulton 45:10Can you talk us through at least phase two? I know that you guys are sort of guarded about what's coming out because you wanna be not stopped.

Tobias Radinger 45:17Yeah. Well, and it's, it's about kind of also putting things out at the right time and making sure that we're ready to handle them. We are, we are a group of volunteers.

Tim Fulton 45:24Well, and to have the maximum impact as well.

Tobias Radinger 45:26Yeah.

Tim Fulton 45:26Yeah.

Tobias Radinger 45:26And we're also a group of volunteers who are doing this in our nights and weekends, so, um-

Tim Fulton 45:30You don't wanna overpromise

Tobias Radinger 45:31... trying, trying not to get, yeah, overpromise and underdeliver. Um, phase two for us is broadening our organization's direct commitment to a future owner/operator of the Columbus Crew.

Tim Fulton 45:45Okay.

Tobias Radinger 45:45And we have made an immense impact within the community. We have a huge following on social media. Um, you know, we've got broadcasters wearing our gear on live television.

Tim Fulton 45:55Right.

Tobias Radinger 45:55We've got people-

Tim Fulton 45:56National broadcasters

Tobias Radinger 45:57... on national broadcasts.

Tim Fulton 45:58Yeah.

Tobias Radinger 45:58We've seen our, our signs and our banners, um, at clubs internationally. So we have a broad and deep reach within, you know, not only our local community, but globally. Um, and so our commitment to the new local investor/operator is going to be our organization will get behind you, and we will put everything at our disposal into that basket.

Tim Fulton 46:22Okay.

Tobias Radinger 46:23And we're going to go all in on taking everything that we've learned and all of our resources and all of our kind of social media capital and all of our community goodwill, and we're going to push behind you as hard as possible to make sure that this is a team that is viable over the long term-

Tim Fulton 46:40Right

Tobias Radinger 46:40... both on and off the field.

Tim Fulton 46:42Well, 'cause what's interesting in this whole thing, and we've sort of gleaned over it, is part of what Precourt Ventures did by saying, "There's no fan support. There's no business support. Our stadium is a piece of shit," is they were devaluing the team in order to move it.

Tobias Radinger 47:00Yes.

Tim Fulton 47:00And so now the lawsuit is actually... This is a legal perspective I didn't think about before. It's super interesting, because what does a legitimate offer mean once you've devalued y- You know, it's like taking a baseball bat to your car and then trying to get a trade-in on it.

Tobias Radinger 47:14Right.

Tim Fulton 47:15Just because you want a new car.

Tobias Radinger 47:17Well, and almost quite literally because, uh, people have been tweeting, uh, pictures of the bathrooms where handles are broken, and there are puddles on the floor.

Tim Fulton 47:25Right.

Tobias Radinger 47:25And people at Rock on the Range, uh, this past weekend talking about, uh, how in one of the, the suites there were basically water stains and brown water dripping from the ceiling and, you know, people posting pictures of the, the lights at the stadium where just, you know, dozens of bulbs are out and not replaced.

Tim Fulton 47:43Right. 'Cause people... 'Cause it's just not being taken care of.

Tobias Radinger 47:45Because it's not being taken care of and, and not being valued.

Tim Fulton 47:48Right. You're sort of beating me to the punch in sort of what happens when you win. And it is that I imagine this organization will stick around to an extent, but basically your new goal is to generate assets, intangible for the most part, names and email addresses and phone numbers of people committed to-

Tobias Radinger 48:06Fairly tangible.

Tim Fulton 48:07That's a tangible asset.

Tobias Radinger 48:08Yeah.

Tim Fulton 48:08Yeah. To generate that in order to hand over to the new potential owner. Is that fair?

Tobias Radinger 48:15Y- for the most part, yeah. I would say that, you know, our, our goal is to be done with this and d- dissolve this thing as, as quickly as possible, to hand it over to someone who's competent and, uh, eager and interested.

Tim Fulton 48:29Right.

Tobias Radinger 48:30Um, you know, we're gonna stick around long enough to make sure they're, you know, successful and, and have all the tools that, that we can possibly provide them, but-

Tim Fulton 48:37And you'll accept a big thank you as well.

Tobias Radinger 48:40Oh. Oh, yeah, of course. But at the end of the day, you know, we're volunteers. We're fans. This is a grassroots thing.

Tim Fulton 48:46Right.

Tobias Radinger 48:46We want nothing more than to be able to go out and cheer for our favorite players and scream about goals and yell at the refs about a red card they should've ha- Like, that's what we want to do.

Tim Fulton 48:57Right.

Tobias Radinger 48:58And instead we've been focusing all of our time and energy not about player trades and all those other things, but about, "Dear God, can we keep this team here?"

Tim Fulton 49:07Right. And I asked sort of how you're involved in the greater ecosystem. Are you communicating this plan with- Let's call them the powers that be, or are you simply communicating it through the media?

Tobias Radinger 49:20Uh, we're simply doing it through the media.

Tim Fulton 49:21Okay.

Tobias Radinger 49:22So, so our, again, we're-

Tim Fulton 49:23It's interesting from, like, a third party perspective. There were some very public proposals made at, at one point that very quickly everybody was like, "Mm, this wasn't vetted."

Tobias Radinger 49:33Yeah.

Tim Fulton 49:34Like, "This didn't... Nobody knew you were even thinking about this." And so it's interesting sort of to hear that indeed there is not a whole lot of coordination, at least with you guys, and certainly the lawsuit, and certainly with, you know, Precourt Ventures hasn't sat you down and said, "How can we help?"

Tobias Radinger 49:52Right. And I think, um, to that last point specifically, so we published, uh, we didn't publish. We, we sent, uh, Mr. Precourt a letter.

Tim Fulton 50:01Okay.

Tobias Radinger 50:01And we said, uh, very, very early on in this process, and we said, "Look, we understand that, you know, this might have been a desire, but we w- we're willing to sit down with you, and we're willing to show you exactly how this can work, and we believe that it can." Never heard back.

Tim Fulton 50:17To no avail.

Tobias Radinger 50:18Um, we have published an open letter. Uh, we published a letter with, I think we gathered, like, 15,000 signatures in a f- in a very short period of time that we sent, uh, to MLS, um, and published it publicly on our website saying that the Crew should stay here. Um, we also sent an open letter to Commissioner Garber saying, "We are interested and we're invested, and we're gonna put our strength behind this."

Tim Fulton 50:42Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 50:42Never heard back.

Tim Fulton 50:44Okay.

Tobias Radinger 50:44So we have made kind of some of those, uh, direct appeals to, to some of the people that could, could change this, um, or sway this. And whether they're not interested, or they have other goals, or whatever, you know, they're busy people.

Tim Fulton 50:56Yeah.

Tobias Radinger 50:56Let's be honest. They're, uh, they got other things on their plate-

Tim Fulton 50:59Well, but there's-

Tobias Radinger 50:59... like opening new stadiums and whatever.

Tim Fulton 51:01Well, but the th- interesting thing to me is that you're certainly not being ignored. Again, national broadcasters wearing Save the Crew scarf, the rallies in front of City Hall, the news coverage that you guys have been able to garner is fantastic. It's interesting to me that, and admirable to me, that you guys still push on even though you're not receiving tangible feedback.

Tobias Radinger 51:25Yeah, and I think we haven't received tangible feedback from sort of the, those players.

Tim Fulton 51:30Right.

Tobias Radinger 51:30But what we have received tangible feedback in or from are all of the, you know, thousands and thousands of people who have thanked us on social media, or sent us notes, or said, you know, "I'm with you from Sweden," and held up a banner. Or, you know, the, the person who posted their community kit on the Great Wall of China.

Tim Fulton 51:50Hmm.

Tobias Radinger 51:51And, you know, we've seen this outpouring of, of support and love for this team all over the place. And so in some ways that has been what has kept the fires burning and kept us pushing on. You know, when I got involved with this, I certainly didn't think that I'd be sitting here seven months later, uh, talking about this.

Tim Fulton 52:10Right.

Tobias Radinger 52:10Um, I kinda figured, eh-

Tim Fulton 52:12We're gonna try

Tobias Radinger 52:12... it's, it's might, yeah, we're gonna give it the old, old college try, but it, it might be over really fast.

Tim Fulton 52:17Right.

Tobias Radinger 52:17Um, and in fact, the first few months of this, there were several initiatives that we simply didn't pursue because we actually legitimately wondered, you know, not necessarily saying the team was gonna leave, but the team could als- could have also stayed within a week.

Tim Fulton 52:33Right.

Tobias Radinger 52:33And so it was like, well, how big a thing do we-

Tim Fulton 52:34Why would we launch an initiative like this?

Tobias Radinger 52:36... kick off this thing that's gonna be a three-month initiative if they're gonna either stay or be gone within a week? Um-

Tim Fulton 52:43That's it. So you're saying that the lawsuit has almost given you guys permission to say, "Okay, we know we've got this amount of time now."

Tobias Radinger 52:49A little bit, but I think the, the, we were also coming to this point regardless.

Tim Fulton 52:55Okay.

Tobias Radinger 52:56Um, because this had d- now gone on for six and a half months, and it was pretty clear that it was not going to be resolved anytime soon. Whether the lawsuit happened or not, it was not gonna be resolved quickly.

Tim Fulton 53:05Right.

Tobias Radinger 53:06Um, and so for us, these initiatives, Project 2019 and some of the things we're doing with The Pledge, weren't as much about... We timed it with the, the pause in the lawsuit because it made sense.

Tim Fulton 53:18Mm-hmm.

Tobias Radinger 53:18But we would've been launching that anyway.

Tim Fulton 53:21Okay.

Tobias Radinger 53:21Um, we would've just found some other gap, some other little place to put it. Um, but it was, it was imminent.

Tim Fulton 53:27Yeah. It's interesting to me this model that you guys have created. I jokingly, when I was sort of probing to see, like, who's the person to talk to. Like, it's fine if it's a PR person, but I'd really like to talk to the leader. And every time I ask the question, it's like, "Well, we don't have one." It's, you know-

Tobias Radinger 53:44Yeah

Tim Fulton 53:44... it, it, this, this is truly decentralized. And I was like, "Is this Fight Club?" Like, is that what... You know, the first rule is that we can talk about it. The second rule is, is don't tell anybody what's going on back here. It's interesting to me is what, I hope at least, that it's a model that is able to be transferred over to other things that are important. You know, I think specifically about the, um, the Celebrate One initiative that the city is doing.

Tobias Radinger 54:16Right.

Tim Fulton 54:16And income and segregation issues, and housing issues, and, and all that stuff. And I, I hope that you guys are able to create a resource that is for the larger community in addition to this private entity. That was my soapbox-

Tobias Radinger 54:36Yeah, no

Tim Fulton 54:36... basically.

Tobias Radinger 54:37I mean, that's a, that's, that is a weighty, uh, weighty soapbox. Uh, and I think one that we've not really considered too much. Um, we sort of fell into operating this way.

Tim Fulton 54:49Yeah.

Tobias Radinger 54:50Um, because there were so many vested parties, and there were so many people so passionate about this that, um... And everyone kind of gravitated to what they were good at, right?

Tim Fulton 54:59Right.

Tobias Radinger 54:59So my background is marketing and advertising, so that's what I do a lot of. And I work on ad campaigns, and I work on messaging, and I work on strategy, and I work on all of those kind of pieces of it.

Tim Fulton 55:10Right.

Tobias Radinger 55:11And then there are other people that are just really, really good community organizers, so they do that.

Tim Fulton 55:15Right.

Tobias Radinger 55:16And I don't have a lot to say to them because they know what they're doing, and they're really good at it. So-

Tim Fulton 55:20I guess my invitation would be sort of a postmortem where you guys sort of s- tell that story-

Tobias Radinger 55:25Yeah, yeah, no, I think-

Tim Fulton 55:26... of how, you know, how you did it.

Tobias Radinger 55:28I think that is a f- that is a fantastic idea. And I think that we would all be on board with that.

Tim Fulton 55:33Good. Tobias, thank you so much for your time.

Tobias Radinger 55:35Absolutely. Thank you, Tim.

Tim Fulton 55:45Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite soccer fan. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.