Counterfeit Madison
The creative amalgam that is Counterfeit Madison inspires many in Columbus. We talk about her upcoming show, how the show came to be, how Counterfeit Madison came to be, the Columbus music scene, and other things around town that you should be checking out.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. For this episode, I sat down with Columbus musician CounterfeitMadison to talk about her upcoming show, CounterfeitMadison Meets Nina Simone: A Celebration of Blackness. We also had the opportunity to listen to some of her music, some of Nina's music. We also talk about how the show came to be, how CounterfeitMadison came to be, the Columbus music scene at large, and some other things around town that you should be checking out. We start today's episode with a track from CounterfeitMadison's 2013 album Open and Shut. The song is Don't Cry Wolf. Enjoy. Don't gotta be the canary in my coal mine. Rather you be the dove for my flood. There are other Stevens for the Jones. Don't be some masochistic child. We won't believe you if you keep crying wolf. And when he comes, I'll take it on and so will you, underwater. I don't need another father, my son. It isn't made of plastic, my son. No need for sirens, I saw the smoke. Silence your trumpet, the wind has come and gone. Everybody sees we aren't so necessary. Don't gotta be my canary. I wish you'd be my dove. We won't believe you if you keep crying wolf. I'm not scared. I don't need another father, my son. It isn't made of plastic, my son. If there's a hole in your bucket. I've got another one in the shed. Forget about the stones and straw and axes and all. If there's a hole in your bucket. I've got another one in the shed. Forget about the stones and straw and axes and all. All. Don't be my canary. I wish you'd be my dove. Don't cry wolf. Don't cry wolf. I've got two eyes of my own. And I can see them coming and I'm not scared. I'm sitting down here with CounterfeitMadison, also known as Sharon. I may call her Sharon at some point during this interview. Sharon has put together a performance- Yeah
... entitled CounterfeitMadison Meets Nina Simone: An Exploration- A celebration ... a celebration of Blackness. Yes, it definitely is.
First of all, the show at this point is sold out, but we're gonna talk about some other things. But I want to talk- Do you hear that sigh? That's how I feel about a sold-out show. Is that a sigh of relaxation? No, it's a sigh of annoyance.
Okay. Like, I want- How many seats is that? 200. Yeah.
But they'll be giving out standing room tickets once everybody's sort of admitted. Yes. So if, like, you are diehard and wanna go to this show- Yeah. You should come. There might, you know, there might be some people. I don't know. I don't, I've never done a Note, a show at Notes before, so I don't know, I don't know what it's like. It's-
It's a beautiful space. I, yeah. I, I really like it, and I, when my friend Sheila told me about Notes, I was just like, "Okay, I'll go see it." Then I was like, "This is so great." Well, they did a really good job of, first of all, creating an environment that feels great for the audience, but also, from my understanding at least, they didn't spare any expense on sort of what the musicians need- Yeah
... in order to facilitate a good show. Yeah The show is August 13th. That's my birthday, yeah.
We will be playing some selections of your music and Nina Simone's music throughout the show today, if that's okay with you. Yes! Fantastic. Talk about the inspiration for the show. Why are you doing what may not be entirely, but what I would perceive as a cover show- Yes
... of Nina Simone? Yes. It is entirely Nina Simone? It is entirely Nina Simone, and for those people who are, who've played music with me for many years, this was a surprise to some people because I hate being compared to other people. I am my own unique snowflake of a alien human being, and so people compare me to Nina a lot, um, especially when, um, I st- officially started at Counterpoint Madison a few years ago, and I was just like, "I'm not Nina. I'm Sharon. Hello, that is Nina. I'm Sharon." But-
And so what are the comparisons that they make? The Black female-identifying piano player. Okay. Which is, which is great. I ... It, the problem was not them, it was that me, I don't, I, I, I didn't like being compared. I don't think they were insulting me. I think they were complimenting me.
Right. But there was, so then on Netflix, there was a documentary that came out that was so beautiful, gripping, called What Happened, Miss Simone? And it really charts, um, the extent to which, uh, she changed over time, like how, how she bec- uh, started out playing classical piano and she wanted to be a Black female classical pianist, and then found her way into jazz by playing in clubs, and all of a, all a sudden she started singing. Um, and she- 'Cause someone asked her to. Yeah.
Okay. And then, like, just into the Black Power movement and then into dealing with, uh, being bipolar, which was a relatively unresearched, uh, condition at the time. And so, like, and her friends just supporting her the entire way and her complicated relationship with her daughter. It was just really comprehensive. You got to see this troubled soul because of her genius, kinda like when you watch, um, um, people like a Kurt Cobain or a Ray Charles. Like, they're just so genius, and there's so much in there. And then they- But that it's troubled them to an extent as well. Yes.
And we will link to, uh, the documentary on Netflix- So- ... in, in the show notes. So good. But then somebody came out with a movie, a biopic of Nina Simone, and it starred Zoe Saldana, who is, yeah, she's a fine actress. It's great. But they colored her with dark makeup.
She is a, to be clear, she is a Black woman. She's a Black woman. But- But they colored her with-
She's not- ... dark makeup. Okay ... and then put a prosthetic nose on her, and I-
Which is essentially blackface. Yes! Even though she's a Black woman. I know!
Okay. And so it's like, the thing is that, like, within, so th- it's so in- it's so intense and so complicated because in the Black community, there is something called colorism. Okay. I'm going to be vulgar for a second. Back in the slave days, the people came from Africa. They were pretty dark. Then there were some that rose up the ranks because they had sex with white people, and those were the lighter-skinned people that were the house niggas. So they got to come and be inside the house, and so there's just always this, this idea of, like, lighter being more beautiful. Lighter skin tones, sharper nose features that are like those of white people because of the genetic mixing are more attractive than someone like Nina, who was dark and who had a broad nose and very African pronounced features. So in the Black community, this caused an uproar because Nina, who was a very dark Black woman, a dark Black woman wasn't even asked to play a dark Black woman. On top of the blackface business-
Mm-hmm ... it paints her as this crazy ass lady- Okay ... who just drank and drank and threw tantrums and-
Well, let's stick to the race issue for a moment. Yeah, yeah. Let's say Zoe Saldana, they had her do it not in darker makeup- Yeah
... not with a nose prosthetic. That would've been fine with you. That would've been fine but also would've been annoying because she doesn't look like Nina. Okay. Like, there are, there are, you know, Oscars So White. All these, there's all these opportunities. All, I'm sure that if you... I tell people, "If you sit on a corner in New York, in Brooklyn, Bed-Stuy," let's be even be more specific.
Okay. If you sat on a corner for, like, six hours, you would find people who could do that role better than she can. The only reason Cynthia Mort, who is the director, chose to do it, this white lady, Latina, whatever, chose to do it because it was a money-making scheme, and she didn't wish to tell the true story of Nina. She just wanted to make money. Well, and wanted to, to complete the task that was assigned to her- Yes
... by the studio. Yes. Okay. I mean, you have issues with the portrayal as, uh, as in total. In total.
Okay. But especially as a Black person who is dark, it's like, yo, like, colorism is a real thing. Mm-hmm. And you cast someone whose name is popular just because she's lighter. It's like she could have cast Uzo Aduba from Orange Is the New Black. She could have cast Leslie Jones from Ghostbusters. She could have cast Viola Davis. She could have cast Oprah Winfrey. Oprah Winfrey can do anything. She could have fake played the piano. Like, they could have cast anybody, and they didn't.
So that film is shit. Yeah. The documentary is fantastic. Yes.
What was your inspiration for this show? So after the Zoe Saldana show came out, I was just like I am right here. They coulda asked me. I could play Nina Simone in a biopic. I'm gonna do N- Nina Simone show. Okay. Fuck this.
And so when you do it, you're gonna be doing, uh, I mean, it's primarily, you know, the music. Yeah. And I assume you'll do, be doing some speaking. I'll do some speaking.
Will it be in character? Some- Or is that the intention? No.
Okay. So- So that's the- So-
... Counterfeit Madison meets Nina Simone. Yes. Okay. Who else is involved with the show? I assume you have a backing band. So I have a backing band. It's, um, uh, Counterfeit Madison's backing band. Um, a- including a trumpet p- player named Kyle Curley. Uh, and-
And who else is in the band? Uh, Seth Daily is the drummer, and Trent Sampson is a bass player, and Alex Paquette on guitar, and Alex Fergoine on saxophone. Fantastic. And they're all white males. Nina Simone-
Do you think it provides a, a stark, uh, difference for the aud- It def- Like, the audience notices it. It does, but also Nina played with s- some white people who really stood by her side the whole time.
Okay. If we're talking about change that needs to be made in America, like racially, it's not, it can't be up to us only. So I understand, I think, the impetus for the show now. So what's the motivation for it? So the motivation for the show was first, first and foremost, to show the world that in many different pockets of the country, also in lil' Columbus, Ohio, there is a woman who can cover Nina Simone better than Zoe Saldana can. Then as time progressed, and Trump had his rise-
Okay ... and as police shootings began to really, um, take the forefront of the news- And the Black Lives Matter move- And the Black Lives Matter movement, I couldn't help but notice how the universe put me in this place to play this Black, defiant, vulnerable protest music with tons of historical weight. It was incredibly healing.
This seems like a good moment to play a Nina Simone song. Yeah. What song should we play? You should play either Baltimore-
Actually, that was the recommendation I was gonna make. Yeah. So this is Baltimore. Beat-up little seagull, on a marble stand. Trying to find the ocean. Looking everywhere. Hard times in the city. In a hard town by the sea. Ain't nowhere to run to. There ain't nothing here for free. Hooker on the corner. Waiting for a train. Drunk lying on the sidewalk. Sleeping in the rain. And the people hide their faces. And they hide their eyes. 'Cause the city's dying. And they don't know why. Oh, Baltimore. Ain't it hard just to live? Oh, Baltimore. Ain't it hard just to live, just to live? Get my sister Sandy. And my little brother Ray. Buy a big old wagon. To haul us all away. To live out in the country. Where the mountains high. Never gonna come back here. Till the day I die. Oh, Baltimore. Ain't it hard just to live? Oh, Balti- What can people expect sort of from the expe- beyond the music? What do you plan interstitially between the songs? Um, well-
Or is it that planned out? Is it just like, "I've, you know, trained and done, learned these songs, and, and whatever happens, happens"? Well, so part of the pr- part of the process of this whole thing is Nina was unabashedly herself. She went through many different moments of the Black power movement, and she left. She went to Northern Africa, and then she went to Paris. So in the later part of her life, she developed this sort of accent that I- This affectation ... this affectation. At the end of, uh, um, this jazz festival, she says, um, um, "I don't want to let you go so soon," and so embarrassingly soft. And that, while I consulted Nina Jesus, and I was just like, "Okay, Nina Jesus, what do I do? Do I want to... Where does Nina Simone end and where does Counterfeit Madison begin?" And I determined that Nina would provide the musical material and the foundation, and then Counterfeit Madison would take the rest. So I-
And to be clear, Counterfeit Madison is your stage persona. Yes, yeah. Talk about Counterfeit Madison. Counterfeit Madison is the embodiment of true, true emotion. That is what Counterfeit Madison is.
Your true, true emotions. My true, true emotions. So basically- So, like, it-
... breaks down barriers and sort of lets, lets it out. It's like, it is like an, Counterfeit Madison is an exercise in a, in musical vulnerability. Okay. I mean, that sounds so, like, sophisticated, but what I'm, I'm saying that because there's sometimes where that turns into yelling. It turns into rolling on the floor. Sometimes it is, uh, deep and dark and sad, and sometimes it is lonely, and sometimes it's cold, and sometimes it's the epitome of warmth and friendliness. And, like, it's all of those things. And I am a very versatile musician, and so I have still not been able to really find a genre for what Counterfeit Madison is. But I do know that one thing is consistent, that everyone leaves a Counterfeit Madison show feeling more deeply than they did before. Whatever feelings they have, they're feeling it more deeply.
One of the reasons why I like speaking with you is you tend to have an answer for everything, even though answers to questions that I truly don't know the answer to. And a lot of times people would be like, "Oh, just get up there and sing," and this is what I do. But you have seemingly, unless you're, like, the best bullshit artist that is, that is out there- ... you've seemingly thought it through. No, no, no, no, no. It's not that I've thought it through. It's that, like, the concepts of Counterfeit Madison are very, very simple. Okay. I just am, you know, my-
But is that what you set out to do in the beginning? I set out- Or was it just like, "I'm getting a band together that's for myself, then we came up with a name"? So what happened was I was playing with oth- other bands in town, and my friend Joe Camerlengo said, "Hey, if you-"
Of This is My Suitcase. Of This is My Suitcase, and Van Dahl and Mary Lynn, and Blanket Boys. He sat me down and he said, "If you don't make an album, I, I mean, I- you just have to make an album." And he was like, "I will make your album." And so it was basically, I've only been writing songs for a few years now, um, only 10 years. And so there were these songs from 2006 to 2013, was when, wow, I'm so new. Counterfeit Madison is so new. I had just brought out some of my favorite songs that I'd written in that time- Okay ... that were unrecorded, and we recorded them. And I played a show three years ago on my birthday at Garden Theater. I was just like, "Oh, this is, I like playing by myself." It's, something happened in that time when I was practicing these songs and realizing that I was changing from this really scared, religious, oppressed person who was sc- uh, ashamed of her Blackness to someone who was genuine and, uh, honest and truly deeply loving.
We'll talk about your background in just a second, but was it getting up on stage that allowed you to do that, or was it something else? To this day, I don't know what happened, but I remember- You just gr- you, you ... being on that stage.
You grew, or...? I remember, yeah. I think, there was, like, this path that I was walking becoming this artist, and I remember that s- that s- stage. From that day forward, like, I've never, I don't ever remember going back to how I used to be. And yes, I'm still scared, and yes, I'm not always honest, but I mean, I'm 35, and I hope to live until I'm, like, 80. And so I'm going to keep working on being the m- most genuine person I could possibly can be. But- Because it's a waste of time to do anything else. Yeah. But I mean, that's what, I mean, you know, I feel, I don't know why other people make music. I think, I, I, I think that there are many different ways to make music, but my reason for making music is because it's the most natural thing that I do. It-
Well, and I think what you're getting at is it's what fixes you. Yeah. Oh, definitely. Okay. Oh, definitely. I, I should, you know, I should not be as well adjusted as I am.
Let's talk about your background a little bit then. Yeah. I've had a, I've had a lot of religious damage. Okay. Your family is from...? Nigeria. I was born here.
In C- Cincinnati? Uh, Cincinnati. When they came to America, my mom found God. Okay. And I found God with her In this church that did a number on me.
Okay. Um- How old were you? I was six when I started going.
Okay. And I played the piano there. What denomination? Pentecostal is the closest American denomination.
Okay. But, um, other Pentecostal churches that I know, there's, you know, there's tongues, and there's miracles, and sweating, and rolling around, and all that. But this was compounded with the fact that this church was started in India. Okay. And so it had a whole bunch of cultural implications also. So there's just like, there's like the Christian modesty and the cultural modesty.
Okay. And I grew into a person who was very concerned only with the afterlife. So as a child of the '80s, there's just a lot of things that I missed- Okay ... um, from a cultural standpoint because my parents were not born here, and then from a religious standpoint because I couldn't engage in anything.
Right. I remember, I remember seeing, um, Madonna's Like A Prayer video. Okay. And I don't know if you remember it, but there's a statue in it that-
There's the Black man behind the- Yes ... it's like a fence. Yes.
Yeah, yeah. And it's like turn- like there's a moment where it turns from like living to a s- stationary or statue-like f- Right ... and I cried so hard to Jesus that night when I'd seen that because I was just like, "I sinned." I watched a move- a music video
Because you watched that? Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. So my dad was not religious, and so we had a TV in our home. And every once in a while my sister, my older sister, who was not like as like caught up in it as I was, because I played music in the church, so every once in a while she'd like sneak on like a Madonna video or a Janet Jackson video. And then my mom would come home, and we'd like turn off the TV and walk, run upstairs. That was just like me constantly living under the fear of God and under fright. And so of course, you know, like the, I mean-
So then how did that tra- just to fast-forward a little bit, how did that translate into your early adulthood? So then there is this Bible character named Gideon, and Gideon, um, asked the Lord for a sign. There was something with like a fleece, and a field, and water. The details are murky. So what I did when I was graduating high school, and I said, "God, I will only go to college if I get a full ride." And like I had- And you considered that a sign? Oh, yeah.
Okay. And I had good grades, but I was like twen- number 21 in my class. Okay. So like-
Public school? Public school, yeah. Okay. Thank God. Oh, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. I just wanna take a moment to thank Jesus for letting me go to public school because I would've been ruined otherwise. Anyway.
This interlude is just for the sake of the listeners. You are still a Christian. Yes. When you, uh, say, "Thank Jesus," you are being, you- I'm actually thanking Jesus.
Right. I just, some may not get that. Yeah. And I wanna make sure that- Yeah
... it's... and it, and frankly, if people are offended by people that would be funny about that, I don't particularly care. I- But I want people to understand where you're coming from. Yeah. I still, I, I am a member of a Methodist church on campus, and I play every Sunday.
Yes. I, I, I am a church-going Methodist. I- And also just because- I-
... I like talking about myself, that is the same church where I went to preschool. Yeah. So- We're, you know, we're all-
We're all connected. We're all interconnected in this web. But no, I mean, I think I... So I went to public school, la, la, la, got a full ride. That was the beginning of the end of that version of Christianity for me because I went to art school. And what comes along with that is what everybody believes comes along with art school.
Yes. I started, I started, um, I started learning about Rembrandt, and I started learning about war art, and I started learning about Robert Mapplethorpe. But I started like, um... And then I met my first gay friend, and like it was just this crazy world, but I still held on really tight to Jesus. Just to be clear, I mean, how did they take you? They took me- Did they... Th- this is art school for them, too.
Oh, yeah. But you have this perception of who goes into art school, and it is someone who is open to the idea of diversity. And not that you weren't open to the idea of diversity, but I think shittily sometimes those that are open to the idea of diversity see those that they perceive aren't and exclude them. I wasn't excluded on purpose. I was just never included on purpose. Were you othered?
Yes, but I othered myself. I mean, I don't truly know the answer to that question because I othered myself a lot. Okay. Like people would be like, "We're gonna go do this." And I'd be like, "I cannot do that. I cannot see a movie." I see what you're saying.
I cannot, you know. I wanna take a moment and play a song of yours, uh, from your 2013 album. Yeah. Reflecting on your youth-
Yes ... and, and where you came from, what's the best foot- Definitely. Leaving. Leaving is the best choice for that.
Leaving. Yes. Yeah. All right. Here is Leaving with Counterfeit Madison. You keep all your promises. I break all of mine. All my greatest intentions leave me standing here. Can you honor my intent? Sometimes I should shut my mouth, listen to your voice. Temperance runs far away, leaving this regret. Would to God my lesson stayed. All my failures weigh me down. Can you lift me up? And as if to worsen it, your- Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening. Rainbows to color fly. Rainbows and all the flies. Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening. Rainbows to color fly. Rainbows and all the flies. Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening. Rainbows to color fly. Rainbows and all the flies. Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening. Rainbows to color fly. Oh, rainbows and all the flies. Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening. Rainbows.
Rainbows to color fly. Rainbows. Rainbows and all the flies. We have covered the show Counterfeit Madison Meets Nina Simone: A Celebration of Blackness. That show is sold out, however there will be, uh, standing room tickets available at the door on August 13th. I imagine some announcement to that effect or some clarification on that will be available both if you follow Counterfeit Madison on Facebook-
Mm-hmm ... and then also, uh- On the event page ... on the event page, and also which we are linked to in the show notes for this episode, and then also from, uh, Notes slash Copious in the Brewery district. What are the other things going on in Columbus that listeners should know about in your sort of circle of creativity and arts and entertainment?
So Andy Downing interviewed me and two other people, Jay Carey and Camille Wright, who are heading up a festival on the very same day as my show. Okay. Um, called- August 13th
... August 13th, called Soul Dope. It's at the Lincoln Cafe. Right by the Lincoln Theater. Okay. I have a confession to make because I've been, um, holed up learning these Nina Simone songs. Um-
How many songs are you doing? Uh, 18. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. This, it came down from 26.
Are you recording it? Yeah. Great. Yeah. Chip Willis will be taking photography as well.
Fantastic. Mm-hmm. You're gonna keep your shirt on though, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Chip Willis is a local photographer. Uh, I would say prima- I, I don't know if this is the most of his work, but he is primarily known for sensual photography. Yeah, for- And it's fantastic work. If we're gonna talk about people-
Yeah ... who just, like, really inspire me, like, Chip Willis has been huge for me. Okay. He is a former, um... He's a veteran.
Okay. Former, um, pilot, jack of all trades. You know when you get to that age and you've seen so much, I'm right between Gen X and Gen Y, so, like, I'm technically still a milen- millennial. Okay. Millennials are scaredy-cats. We're, like, s- always scared of how many likes we get. I really look to people like Chip who are just like, "You know what? I take pictures."
"And this is what I wanna do." Right. Great. Why did you bring up specifically that Andy interviewed you for the festival? Because I found out about Soul Dope then What's the article about?
The role of the Black artist in Columbus. How Black artists in different ways have responded to what's going on- Okay ... the climate. Okay. This is the article that already came out, right?
No, it's c- it's going to come out. There's a, there's been a few. Okay. I, this came up in a conversation the other night. Like, I appreciate what The Alive is doing. I think it's important what they're doing. It bothers me a little bit that it's, that all their social activism is through the lens of the music scene. Yeah. Does that bother you?
No, it does not bother me because I'm in the music scene, and because I think musicians, I d- I think we could do more. You could stand to talk about it a little bit more. I think we could do more. It bothers me a little bit that the... I think it's important to tell these stories, but it bothers me a little bit that it's constantly being told through that-
A music lens ... filter. Yeah. Um, what bothers me about it, while I think it's great that the music scene is sort of focusing on that, or rather Andy is forcing the music scene to focus on that, I think it almost limits who gives a shit.
Ah. Do you know what I mean? Like- That makes sense ... that we aren't telling larger stories about those issues. I think that, you know, like when FemFest happened, which was a direct response to Fashion Meets Music Festival hiring R. Kelly as the headliner for the first year, that warrants that sort of piece. That is, that is the music community responding to a, a social thing that they thought was fucked up.
Uh-huh. But when you do a Black Lives Matter piece that is just about musicians, when you talk about sexual assault in the music scene, not in the bar scene- Yeah ... that's not big enough.
I guess that makes sense. I mean, I'm gonna speak for myself. Sure. I think it's easy for musicians to hide behind who we really are, because we play cool things, and we wear cool things, and we're on a stage, and we look cool. And so I k- from personally, I kinda like those stories because it a- it forces musicians to really be accountable- Okay
... as social beings. Okay. I feel like if you're going to be a musician, like I feel like it's really important to tell these stories that don't exempt musicians from giving a fuck about anything other than their music. Does that make sense? Sort of. They're sort of bringing up something that is salacious. Certainly not inferring that it only exists within that scene, but it almost paints the scene a little bit.
Yes, yes. And I, I don't worry about that, 'cause I'm not in it, but frankly, as the father of a daughter, and if I was the father of a daughter who was of an age to go to an all-ages show, I would take pause. Yeah. You know?
Yeah. 16 years from now, if that article came out, I would take pause. Yeah. Thank you for entertaining my, this will be known as the section of the episode where I just talk the whole time.
No, that's great. I just, when anyone cares about anything, I like that. When people write about what h- goes down in the music scene as far as sexual assault, I'm just like, "You cared. Good." Right. Because I just feel like there's so many people who just don't care. And that's fair.
Yeah. Let's get back into it. Hi. Uh, let's talk about what else people should be following in Columbus.
There's a festival happening, it's called So Dope. You should check it out. It's from 11:00 to 5:00 at the Lincoln Cafe. What will be happening there? Lots of poetry, lots of music, lots of activism. Just a really great community event. Um-
Other peop- No, no. I wanna talk about someone. Sure. Who, do you know Marcus Meachem? I work with Marcus, yeah.
Okay. We're talking about people in the arts entertainment scene that are great. That man has a gift straight from Jesus Christ, Allah, Buddha, Shiva, Poseidon, to make food, and I'm the kind of person who am, am really inspired by what I eat. I've n- haven't known him for very long and I don't know him very well, but I've just been watching him just like snowball into this person who's really developed this style of the way he makes food, and I love highly stylized people. And you should check out his steam kitchen in the back of, uh, Little Rock Bar. Oh, my God. Give me one other thing that people should, uh, look up and follow.
My best friend, Mary Lynn Gleckler, is bringing out an album. She's releasing an album, um, locally on August 19th, 2016 at Care Bar, and nationally the following month. She has been recently, um, added to the NOA Records roster. Um, one, the roster that includes, um, Connections and St. Lennox. So Mary Lynn has been in the music scene for years. She was part of This Is My Suitcase. We both had similar times where we decided that we wanted to do our own, head up our own projects. Do solo work. And- Right
... she just writes these heartbreaking pop melodies. It's this really beautiful piano pop. She's just developed and grown into this young woman, and it's really, really beautiful. Having met her, she's the kindest, most unassuming- Yeah ... person you have ever met.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Second thing, I am to date the only female singer in the Columbus Gay Men's Chorus, and it is a l- it has been a life-changing experience for me. In September we start up our new season, and I'm really excited about that, and if you could keep that on your radar. Fantastic.
Yeah. I wanna close out with one more song. What should we close out with? There's a song that I've not been able to complete in practice without crying. Okay.
It's a song called Little Girl Blue by Nina Simone. Great. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for listening to the Confluence Cast today, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, more information on Sharon's show and the other things that we discussed can be found in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, your family, your contacts, even your frenemies. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Again, I am your host, Tim Fulton. Have a good week and support local music.
Sit there and count your fingers. What can you do? Oh girl, you're through. Sit there, count your little fingers. Unhappy little girl blue. Sit there, count the raindrops falling on you. It's time you knew all you can ever count on are the raindrops that fall on little girl blue. Won't you just sit there? Count the little raindrops falling on you. 'Cause it's time you knew all you can ever count on are the raindrops that fall on little girl blue. No use, oh girl. You might as well surrender 'cause your hopes are getting slender and slender. Why won't somebody send a tender blue boy to cheer up little girl blue?
Transcript5,989 words
Tim Fulton Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. For this episode, I sat down with Columbus musician CounterfeitMadison to talk about her upcoming show, CounterfeitMadison Meets Nina Simone: A Celebration of Blackness. We also had the opportunity to listen to some of her music, some of Nina's music. We also talk about how the show came to be, how CounterfeitMadison came to be, the Columbus music scene at large, and some other things around town that you should be checking out. We start today's episode with a track from CounterfeitMadison's 2013 album Open and Shut. The song is Don't Cry Wolf. Enjoy.
Counterfeit Madison Don't gotta be the canary in my coal mine. Rather you be the dove for my flood. There are other Stevens for the Jones. Don't be some masochistic child. We won't believe you if you keep crying wolf. And when he comes, I'll take it on and so will you, underwater. I don't need another father, my son. It isn't made of plastic, my son. No need for sirens, I saw the smoke. Silence your trumpet, the wind has come and gone. Everybody sees we aren't so necessary. Don't gotta be my canary. I wish you'd be my dove. We won't believe you if you keep crying wolf. I'm not scared. I don't need another father, my son. It isn't made of plastic, my son. If there's a hole in your bucket. I've got another one in the shed. Forget about the stones and straw and axes and all. If there's a hole in your bucket. I've got another one in the shed. Forget about the stones and straw and axes and all. All. Don't be my canary. I wish you'd be my dove. Don't cry wolf. Don't cry wolf. I've got two eyes of my own. And I can see them coming and I'm not scared.
Tim Fulton I'm sitting down here with CounterfeitMadison, also known as Sharon. I may call her Sharon at some point during this interview. Sharon has put together a performance-
Counterfeit Madison Yeah
Tim Fulton ... entitled CounterfeitMadison Meets Nina Simone: An Exploration-
Counterfeit Madison A celebration
Tim Fulton ... a celebration of Blackness.
Counterfeit Madison Yes, it definitely is.
Tim Fulton First of all, the show at this point is sold out, but we're gonna talk about some other things. But I want to talk-
Counterfeit Madison Do you hear that sigh? That's how I feel about a sold-out show.
Tim Fulton Is that a sigh of relaxation?
Counterfeit Madison No, it's a sigh of annoyance.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Like, I want-
Tim Fulton How many seats is that? 200.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton But they'll be giving out standing room tickets once everybody's sort of admitted.
Counterfeit Madison Yes.
Tim Fulton So if, like, you are diehard and wanna go to this show-
Counterfeit Madison Yeah. You should come. There might, you know, there might be some people. I don't know. I don't, I've never done a Note, a show at Notes before, so I don't know, I don't know what it's like. It's-
Tim Fulton It's a beautiful space.
Counterfeit Madison I, yeah. I, I really like it, and I, when my friend Sheila told me about Notes, I was just like, "Okay, I'll go see it." Then I was like, "This is so great."
Tim Fulton Well, they did a really good job of, first of all, creating an environment that feels great for the audience, but also, from my understanding at least, they didn't spare any expense on sort of what the musicians need-
Counterfeit Madison Yeah
Tim Fulton ... in order to facilitate a good show.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah
Tim Fulton The show is August 13th.
Counterfeit Madison That's my birthday, yeah.
Tim Fulton We will be playing some selections of your music and Nina Simone's music throughout the show today, if that's okay with you.
Counterfeit Madison Yes!
Tim Fulton Fantastic. Talk about the inspiration for the show. Why are you doing what may not be entirely, but what I would perceive as a cover show-
Counterfeit Madison Yes
Tim Fulton ... of Nina Simone?
Counterfeit Madison Yes.
Tim Fulton It is entirely Nina Simone?
Counterfeit Madison It is entirely Nina Simone, and for those people who are, who've played music with me for many years, this was a surprise to some people because I hate being compared to other people. I am my own unique snowflake of a alien human being, and so people compare me to Nina a lot, um, especially when, um, I st- officially started at Counterpoint Madison a few years ago, and I was just like, "I'm not Nina. I'm Sharon. Hello, that is Nina. I'm Sharon." But-
Tim Fulton And so what are the comparisons that they make?
Counterfeit Madison The Black female-identifying piano player.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Which is, which is great. I ... It, the problem was not them, it was that me, I don't, I, I, I didn't like being compared. I don't think they were insulting me. I think they were complimenting me.
Tim Fulton Right.
Counterfeit Madison But there was, so then on Netflix, there was a documentary that came out that was so beautiful, gripping, called What Happened, Miss Simone? And it really charts, um, the extent to which, uh, she changed over time, like how, how she bec- uh, started out playing classical piano and she wanted to be a Black female classical pianist, and then found her way into jazz by playing in clubs, and all of a, all a sudden she started singing. Um, and she-
Tim Fulton 'Cause someone asked her to.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison And then, like, just into the Black Power movement and then into dealing with, uh, being bipolar, which was a relatively unresearched, uh, condition at the time. And so, like, and her friends just supporting her the entire way and her complicated relationship with her daughter. It was just really comprehensive. You got to see this troubled soul because of her genius, kinda like when you watch, um, um, people like a Kurt Cobain or a Ray Charles. Like, they're just so genius, and there's so much in there. And then they-
Tim Fulton But that it's troubled them to an extent as well.
Counterfeit Madison Yes.
Tim Fulton And we will link to, uh, the documentary on Netflix-
Counterfeit Madison So-
Tim Fulton ... in, in the show notes.
Counterfeit Madison So good. But then somebody came out with a movie, a biopic of Nina Simone, and it starred Zoe Saldana, who is, yeah, she's a fine actress. It's great. But they colored her with dark makeup.
Tim Fulton She is a, to be clear, she is a Black woman.
Counterfeit Madison She's a Black woman.
Tim Fulton But-
Counterfeit Madison But they colored her with-
Tim Fulton She's not-
Counterfeit Madison ... dark makeup.
Tim Fulton Okay
Counterfeit Madison ... and then put a prosthetic nose on her, and I-
Tim Fulton Which is essentially blackface.
Counterfeit Madison Yes!
Tim Fulton Even though she's a Black woman.
Counterfeit Madison I know!
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison And so it's like, the thing is that, like, within, so th- it's so in- it's so intense and so complicated because in the Black community, there is something called colorism.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison I'm going to be vulgar for a second. Back in the slave days, the people came from Africa. They were pretty dark. Then there were some that rose up the ranks because they had sex with white people, and those were the lighter-skinned people that were the house niggas. So they got to come and be inside the house, and so there's just always this, this idea of, like, lighter being more beautiful. Lighter skin tones, sharper nose features that are like those of white people because of the genetic mixing are more attractive than someone like Nina, who was dark and who had a broad nose and very African pronounced features. So in the Black community, this caused an uproar because Nina, who was a very dark Black woman, a dark Black woman wasn't even asked to play a dark Black woman. On top of the blackface business-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Counterfeit Madison ... it paints her as this crazy ass lady-
Tim Fulton Okay
Counterfeit Madison ... who just drank and drank and threw tantrums and-
Tim Fulton Well, let's stick to the race issue for a moment.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah, yeah.
Tim Fulton Let's say Zoe Saldana, they had her do it not in darker makeup-
Counterfeit Madison Yeah
Tim Fulton ... not with a nose prosthetic. That would've been fine with you.
Counterfeit Madison That would've been fine but also would've been annoying because she doesn't look like Nina.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Like, there are, there are, you know, Oscars So White. All these, there's all these opportunities. All, I'm sure that if you... I tell people, "If you sit on a corner in New York, in Brooklyn, Bed-Stuy," let's be even be more specific.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison If you sat on a corner for, like, six hours, you would find people who could do that role better than she can. The only reason Cynthia Mort, who is the director, chose to do it, this white lady, Latina, whatever, chose to do it because it was a money-making scheme, and she didn't wish to tell the true story of Nina. She just wanted to make money.
Tim Fulton Well, and wanted to, to complete the task that was assigned to her-
Counterfeit Madison Yes
Tim Fulton ... by the studio.
Counterfeit Madison Yes.
Tim Fulton Okay. I mean, you have issues with the portrayal as, uh, as in total.
Counterfeit Madison In total.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison But especially as a Black person who is dark, it's like, yo, like, colorism is a real thing.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Counterfeit Madison And you cast someone whose name is popular just because she's lighter. It's like she could have cast Uzo Aduba from Orange Is the New Black. She could have cast Leslie Jones from Ghostbusters. She could have cast Viola Davis. She could have cast Oprah Winfrey. Oprah Winfrey can do anything. She could have fake played the piano. Like, they could have cast anybody, and they didn't.
Tim Fulton So that film is shit.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton The documentary is fantastic.
Counterfeit Madison Yes.
Tim Fulton What was your inspiration for this show?
Counterfeit Madison So after the Zoe Saldana show came out, I was just like I am right here. They coulda asked me. I could play Nina Simone in a biopic. I'm gonna do N- Nina Simone show.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Fuck this.
Tim Fulton And so when you do it, you're gonna be doing, uh, I mean, it's primarily, you know, the music.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton And I assume you'll do, be doing some speaking.
Counterfeit Madison I'll do some speaking.
Tim Fulton Will it be in character?
Counterfeit Madison Some-
Tim Fulton Or is that the intention?
Counterfeit Madison No.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison So-
Tim Fulton So that's the-
Counterfeit Madison So-
Tim Fulton ... Counterfeit Madison meets Nina Simone.
Counterfeit Madison Yes.
Tim Fulton Okay. Who else is involved with the show? I assume you have a backing band.
Counterfeit Madison So I have a backing band. It's, um, uh, Counterfeit Madison's backing band. Um, a- including a trumpet p- player named Kyle Curley. Uh, and-
Tim Fulton And who else is in the band?
Counterfeit Madison Uh, Seth Daily is the drummer, and Trent Sampson is a bass player, and Alex Paquette on guitar, and Alex Fergoine on saxophone.
Tim Fulton Fantastic.
Counterfeit Madison And they're all white males. Nina Simone-
Tim Fulton Do you think it provides a, a stark, uh, difference for the aud-
Counterfeit Madison It def-
Tim Fulton Like, the audience notices it.
Counterfeit Madison It does, but also Nina played with s- some white people who really stood by her side the whole time.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison If we're talking about change that needs to be made in America, like racially, it's not, it can't be up to us only.
Tim Fulton So I understand, I think, the impetus for the show now. So what's the motivation for it?
Counterfeit Madison So the motivation for the show was first, first and foremost, to show the world that in many different pockets of the country, also in lil' Columbus, Ohio, there is a woman who can cover Nina Simone better than Zoe Saldana can. Then as time progressed, and Trump had his rise-
Tim Fulton Okay
Counterfeit Madison ... and as police shootings began to really, um, take the forefront of the news-
Tim Fulton And the Black Lives Matter move-
Counterfeit Madison And the Black Lives Matter movement, I couldn't help but notice how the universe put me in this place to play this Black, defiant, vulnerable protest music with tons of historical weight. It was incredibly healing.
Tim Fulton This seems like a good moment to play a Nina Simone song.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton What song should we play?
Counterfeit Madison You should play either Baltimore-
Tim Fulton Actually, that was the recommendation I was gonna make.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton So this is Baltimore. Beat-up little seagull, on a marble stand. Trying to find the ocean. Looking everywhere. Hard times in the city. In a hard town by the sea. Ain't nowhere to run to. There ain't nothing here for free. Hooker on the corner. Waiting for a train. Drunk lying on the sidewalk. Sleeping in the rain. And the people hide their faces. And they hide their eyes. 'Cause the city's dying. And they don't know why. Oh, Baltimore. Ain't it hard just to live? Oh, Baltimore. Ain't it hard just to live, just to live? Get my sister Sandy. And my little brother Ray. Buy a big old wagon. To haul us all away. To live out in the country. Where the mountains high. Never gonna come back here. Till the day I die. Oh, Baltimore. Ain't it hard just to live? Oh, Balti- What can people expect sort of from the expe- beyond the music? What do you plan interstitially between the songs?
Counterfeit Madison Um, well-
Tim Fulton Or is it that planned out? Is it just like, "I've, you know, trained and done, learned these songs, and, and whatever happens, happens"?
Counterfeit Madison Well, so part of the pr- part of the process of this whole thing is Nina was unabashedly herself. She went through many different moments of the Black power movement, and she left. She went to Northern Africa, and then she went to Paris. So in the later part of her life, she developed this sort of accent that I-
Tim Fulton This affectation
Counterfeit Madison ... this affectation. At the end of, uh, um, this jazz festival, she says, um, um, "I don't want to let you go so soon," and so embarrassingly soft. And that, while I consulted Nina Jesus, and I was just like, "Okay, Nina Jesus, what do I do? Do I want to... Where does Nina Simone end and where does Counterfeit Madison begin?" And I determined that Nina would provide the musical material and the foundation, and then Counterfeit Madison would take the rest. So I-
Tim Fulton And to be clear, Counterfeit Madison is your stage persona.
Counterfeit Madison Yes, yeah.
Tim Fulton Talk about Counterfeit Madison.
Counterfeit Madison Counterfeit Madison is the embodiment of true, true emotion. That is what Counterfeit Madison is.
Tim Fulton Your true, true emotions.
Counterfeit Madison My true, true emotions.
Tim Fulton So basically-
Counterfeit Madison So, like, it-
Tim Fulton ... breaks down barriers and sort of lets, lets it out.
Counterfeit Madison It's like, it is like an, Counterfeit Madison is an exercise in a, in musical vulnerability.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison I mean, that sounds so, like, sophisticated, but what I'm, I'm saying that because there's sometimes where that turns into yelling. It turns into rolling on the floor. Sometimes it is, uh, deep and dark and sad, and sometimes it is lonely, and sometimes it's cold, and sometimes it's the epitome of warmth and friendliness. And, like, it's all of those things. And I am a very versatile musician, and so I have still not been able to really find a genre for what Counterfeit Madison is. But I do know that one thing is consistent, that everyone leaves a Counterfeit Madison show feeling more deeply than they did before. Whatever feelings they have, they're feeling it more deeply.
Tim Fulton One of the reasons why I like speaking with you is you tend to have an answer for everything, even though answers to questions that I truly don't know the answer to. And a lot of times people would be like, "Oh, just get up there and sing," and this is what I do. But you have seemingly, unless you're, like, the best bullshit artist that is, that is out there- ... you've seemingly thought it through.
Counterfeit Madison No, no, no, no, no. It's not that I've thought it through. It's that, like, the concepts of Counterfeit Madison are very, very simple.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison I just am, you know, my-
Tim Fulton But is that what you set out to do in the beginning?
Counterfeit Madison I set out-
Tim Fulton Or was it just like, "I'm getting a band together that's for myself, then we came up with a name"?
Counterfeit Madison So what happened was I was playing with oth- other bands in town, and my friend Joe Camerlengo said, "Hey, if you-"
Tim Fulton Of This is My Suitcase.
Counterfeit Madison Of This is My Suitcase, and Van Dahl and Mary Lynn, and Blanket Boys. He sat me down and he said, "If you don't make an album, I, I mean, I- you just have to make an album." And he was like, "I will make your album." And so it was basically, I've only been writing songs for a few years now, um, only 10 years. And so there were these songs from 2006 to 2013, was when, wow, I'm so new. Counterfeit Madison is so new. I had just brought out some of my favorite songs that I'd written in that time-
Tim Fulton Okay
Counterfeit Madison ... that were unrecorded, and we recorded them. And I played a show three years ago on my birthday at Garden Theater. I was just like, "Oh, this is, I like playing by myself." It's, something happened in that time when I was practicing these songs and realizing that I was changing from this really scared, religious, oppressed person who was sc- uh, ashamed of her Blackness to someone who was genuine and, uh, honest and truly deeply loving.
Tim Fulton We'll talk about your background in just a second, but was it getting up on stage that allowed you to do that, or was it something else?
Counterfeit Madison To this day, I don't know what happened, but I remember-
Tim Fulton You just gr- you, you
Counterfeit Madison ... being on that stage.
Tim Fulton You grew, or...?
Counterfeit Madison I remember, yeah. I think, there was, like, this path that I was walking becoming this artist, and I remember that s- that s- stage. From that day forward, like, I've never, I don't ever remember going back to how I used to be. And yes, I'm still scared, and yes, I'm not always honest, but I mean, I'm 35, and I hope to live until I'm, like, 80. And so I'm going to keep working on being the m- most genuine person I could possibly can be. But-
Tim Fulton Because it's a waste of time to do anything else.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah. But I mean, that's what, I mean, you know, I feel, I don't know why other people make music. I think, I, I, I think that there are many different ways to make music, but my reason for making music is because it's the most natural thing that I do. It-
Tim Fulton Well, and I think what you're getting at is it's what fixes you.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah. Oh, definitely.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Oh, definitely. I, I should, you know, I should not be as well adjusted as I am.
Tim Fulton Let's talk about your background a little bit then.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah. I've had a, I've had a lot of religious damage.
Tim Fulton Okay. Your family is from...?
Counterfeit Madison Nigeria. I was born here.
Tim Fulton In C- Cincinnati?
Counterfeit Madison Uh, Cincinnati. When they came to America, my mom found God.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison And I found God with her In this church that did a number on me.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Um-
Tim Fulton How old were you?
Counterfeit Madison I was six when I started going.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison And I played the piano there.
Tim Fulton What denomination?
Counterfeit Madison Pentecostal is the closest American denomination.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison But, um, other Pentecostal churches that I know, there's, you know, there's tongues, and there's miracles, and sweating, and rolling around, and all that. But this was compounded with the fact that this church was started in India.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison And so it had a whole bunch of cultural implications also. So there's just like, there's like the Christian modesty and the cultural modesty.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison And I grew into a person who was very concerned only with the afterlife. So as a child of the '80s, there's just a lot of things that I missed-
Tim Fulton Okay
Counterfeit Madison ... um, from a cultural standpoint because my parents were not born here, and then from a religious standpoint because I couldn't engage in anything.
Tim Fulton Right.
Counterfeit Madison I remember, I remember seeing, um, Madonna's Like A Prayer video.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison And I don't know if you remember it, but there's a statue in it that-
Tim Fulton There's the Black man behind the-
Counterfeit Madison Yes
Tim Fulton ... it's like a fence.
Counterfeit Madison Yes.
Tim Fulton Yeah, yeah.
Counterfeit Madison And it's like turn- like there's a moment where it turns from like living to a s- stationary or statue-like f-
Tim Fulton Right
Counterfeit Madison ... and I cried so hard to Jesus that night when I'd seen that because I was just like, "I sinned." I watched a move- a music video
Tim Fulton Because you watched that?
Counterfeit Madison Oh, yeah.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Oh, yeah. So my dad was not religious, and so we had a TV in our home. And every once in a while my sister, my older sister, who was not like as like caught up in it as I was, because I played music in the church, so every once in a while she'd like sneak on like a Madonna video or a Janet Jackson video. And then my mom would come home, and we'd like turn off the TV and walk, run upstairs. That was just like me constantly living under the fear of God and under fright. And so of course, you know, like the, I mean-
Tim Fulton So then how did that tra- just to fast-forward a little bit, how did that translate into your early adulthood?
Counterfeit Madison So then there is this Bible character named Gideon, and Gideon, um, asked the Lord for a sign. There was something with like a fleece, and a field, and water. The details are murky. So what I did when I was graduating high school, and I said, "God, I will only go to college if I get a full ride." And like I had-
Tim Fulton And you considered that a sign?
Counterfeit Madison Oh, yeah.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison And I had good grades, but I was like twen- number 21 in my class.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison So like-
Tim Fulton Public school?
Counterfeit Madison Public school, yeah.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Thank God. Oh, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. I just wanna take a moment to thank Jesus for letting me go to public school because I would've been ruined otherwise. Anyway.
Tim Fulton This interlude is just for the sake of the listeners. You are still a Christian.
Counterfeit Madison Yes.
Tim Fulton When you, uh, say, "Thank Jesus," you are being, you-
Counterfeit Madison I'm actually thanking Jesus.
Tim Fulton Right. I just, some may not get that.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton And I wanna make sure that-
Counterfeit Madison Yeah
Tim Fulton ... it's... and it, and frankly, if people are offended by people that would be funny about that, I don't particularly care.
Counterfeit Madison I-
Tim Fulton But I want people to understand where you're coming from.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah. I still, I, I am a member of a Methodist church on campus, and I play every Sunday.
Tim Fulton Yes.
Counterfeit Madison I, I, I am a church-going Methodist. I-
Tim Fulton And also just because-
Counterfeit Madison I-
Tim Fulton ... I like talking about myself, that is the same church where I went to preschool.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
Counterfeit Madison So-
Tim Fulton We're, you know, we're all-
Counterfeit Madison We're all connected.
Tim Fulton We're all interconnected in this web.
Counterfeit Madison But no, I mean, I think I... So I went to public school, la, la, la, got a full ride. That was the beginning of the end of that version of Christianity for me because I went to art school.
Tim Fulton And what comes along with that is what everybody believes comes along with art school.
Counterfeit Madison Yes. I started, I started, um, I started learning about Rembrandt, and I started learning about war art, and I started learning about Robert Mapplethorpe. But I started like, um... And then I met my first gay friend, and like it was just this crazy world, but I still held on really tight to Jesus.
Tim Fulton Just to be clear, I mean, how did they take you?
Counterfeit Madison They took me-
Tim Fulton Did they... Th- this is art school for them, too.
Counterfeit Madison Oh, yeah.
Tim Fulton But you have this perception of who goes into art school, and it is someone who is open to the idea of diversity. And not that you weren't open to the idea of diversity, but I think shittily sometimes those that are open to the idea of diversity see those that they perceive aren't and exclude them.
Counterfeit Madison I wasn't excluded on purpose. I was just never included on purpose.
Tim Fulton Were you othered?
Counterfeit Madison Yes, but I othered myself. I mean, I don't truly know the answer to that question because I othered myself a lot.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Like people would be like, "We're gonna go do this." And I'd be like, "I cannot do that. I cannot see a movie."
Tim Fulton I see what you're saying.
Counterfeit Madison I cannot, you know.
Tim Fulton I wanna take a moment and play a song of yours, uh, from your 2013 album.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton Reflecting on your youth-
Counterfeit Madison Yes
Tim Fulton ... and, and where you came from, what's the best foot-
Counterfeit Madison Definitely. Leaving.
Tim Fulton Leaving is the best choice for that.
Counterfeit Madison Leaving. Yes. Yeah.
Tim Fulton All right. Here is Leaving with Counterfeit Madison.
Counterfeit Madison You keep all your promises. I break all of mine. All my greatest intentions leave me standing here. Can you honor my intent? Sometimes I should shut my mouth, listen to your voice. Temperance runs far away, leaving this regret. Would to God my lesson stayed. All my failures weigh me down. Can you lift me up? And as if to worsen it, your- Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening. Rainbows to color fly. Rainbows and all the flies. Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening. Rainbows to color fly. Rainbows and all the flies. Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening. Rainbows to color fly. Rainbows and all the flies. Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening. Rainbows to color fly. Oh, rainbows and all the flies. Clouds hovering by day. Fire blazing in the evening.
Tim Fulton Rainbows.
Counterfeit Madison Rainbows to color fly.
Tim Fulton Rainbows.
Counterfeit Madison Rainbows and all the flies.
Tim Fulton We have covered the show Counterfeit Madison Meets Nina Simone: A Celebration of Blackness. That show is sold out, however there will be, uh, standing room tickets available at the door on August 13th. I imagine some announcement to that effect or some clarification on that will be available both if you follow Counterfeit Madison on Facebook-
Counterfeit Madison Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... and then also, uh-
Counterfeit Madison On the event page
Tim Fulton ... on the event page, and also which we are linked to in the show notes for this episode, and then also from, uh, Notes slash Copious in the Brewery district. What are the other things going on in Columbus that listeners should know about in your sort of circle of creativity and arts and entertainment?
Counterfeit Madison So Andy Downing interviewed me and two other people, Jay Carey and Camille Wright, who are heading up a festival on the very same day as my show.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Um, called-
Tim Fulton August 13th
Counterfeit Madison ... August 13th, called Soul Dope. It's at the Lincoln Cafe.
Tim Fulton Right by the Lincoln Theater.
Counterfeit Madison Right by the Lincoln Theater.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison I have a confession to make because I've been, um, holed up learning these Nina Simone songs. Um-
Tim Fulton How many songs are you doing?
Counterfeit Madison Uh, 18.
Tim Fulton Oh, wow. Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah. This, it came down from 26.
Tim Fulton Are you recording it?
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton Great.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah. Chip Willis will be taking photography as well.
Tim Fulton Fantastic.
Counterfeit Madison Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton You're gonna keep your shirt on though, right?
Counterfeit Madison Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Tim Fulton Chip Willis is a local photographer. Uh, I would say prima- I, I don't know if this is the most of his work, but he is primarily known for sensual photography.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah, for-
Tim Fulton And it's fantastic work.
Counterfeit Madison If we're gonna talk about people-
Tim Fulton Yeah
Counterfeit Madison ... who just, like, really inspire me, like, Chip Willis has been huge for me.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison He is a former, um... He's a veteran.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Former, um, pilot, jack of all trades. You know when you get to that age and you've seen so much, I'm right between Gen X and Gen Y, so, like, I'm technically still a milen- millennial.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison Millennials are scaredy-cats. We're, like, s- always scared of how many likes we get. I really look to people like Chip who are just like, "You know what? I take pictures."
Tim Fulton "And this is what I wanna do."
Counterfeit Madison "And this is what I wanna do."
Tim Fulton Right. Great. Why did you bring up specifically that Andy interviewed you for the festival?
Counterfeit Madison Because I found out about Soul Dope then
Tim Fulton What's the article about?
Counterfeit Madison The role of the Black artist in Columbus. How Black artists in different ways have responded to what's going on-
Tim Fulton Okay
Counterfeit Madison ... the climate.
Tim Fulton Okay. This is the article that already came out, right?
Counterfeit Madison No, it's c- it's going to come out. There's a, there's been a few.
Tim Fulton Okay. I, this came up in a conversation the other night. Like, I appreciate what The Alive is doing. I think it's important what they're doing. It bothers me a little bit that it's, that all their social activism is through the lens of the music scene.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton Does that bother you?
Counterfeit Madison No, it does not bother me because I'm in the music scene, and because I think musicians, I d- I think we could do more.
Tim Fulton You could stand to talk about it a little bit more.
Counterfeit Madison I think we could do more.
Tim Fulton It bothers me a little bit that the... I think it's important to tell these stories, but it bothers me a little bit that it's constantly being told through that-
Counterfeit Madison A music lens
Tim Fulton ... filter.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton Um, what bothers me about it, while I think it's great that the music scene is sort of focusing on that, or rather Andy is forcing the music scene to focus on that, I think it almost limits who gives a shit.
Counterfeit Madison Ah.
Tim Fulton Do you know what I mean? Like-
Counterfeit Madison That makes sense
Tim Fulton ... that we aren't telling larger stories about those issues. I think that, you know, like when FemFest happened, which was a direct response to Fashion Meets Music Festival hiring R. Kelly as the headliner for the first year, that warrants that sort of piece. That is, that is the music community responding to a, a social thing that they thought was fucked up.
Counterfeit Madison Uh-huh.
Tim Fulton But when you do a Black Lives Matter piece that is just about musicians, when you talk about sexual assault in the music scene, not in the bar scene-
Counterfeit Madison Yeah
Tim Fulton ... that's not big enough.
Counterfeit Madison I guess that makes sense. I mean, I'm gonna speak for myself.
Tim Fulton Sure.
Counterfeit Madison I think it's easy for musicians to hide behind who we really are, because we play cool things, and we wear cool things, and we're on a stage, and we look cool. And so I k- from personally, I kinda like those stories because it a- it forces musicians to really be accountable-
Tim Fulton Okay
Counterfeit Madison ... as social beings.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison I feel like if you're going to be a musician, like I feel like it's really important to tell these stories that don't exempt musicians from giving a fuck about anything other than their music. Does that make sense?
Tim Fulton Sort of. They're sort of bringing up something that is salacious. Certainly not inferring that it only exists within that scene, but it almost paints the scene a little bit.
Counterfeit Madison Yes, yes.
Tim Fulton And I, I don't worry about that, 'cause I'm not in it, but frankly, as the father of a daughter, and if I was the father of a daughter who was of an age to go to an all-ages show, I would take pause.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton You know?
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton 16 years from now, if that article came out, I would take pause.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton Thank you for entertaining my, this will be known as the section of the episode where I just talk the whole time.
Counterfeit Madison No, that's great. I just, when anyone cares about anything, I like that. When people write about what h- goes down in the music scene as far as sexual assault, I'm just like, "You cared. Good."
Tim Fulton Right.
Counterfeit Madison Because I just feel like there's so many people who just don't care.
Tim Fulton And that's fair.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton Let's get back into it.
Counterfeit Madison Hi.
Tim Fulton Uh, let's talk about what else people should be following in Columbus.
Counterfeit Madison There's a festival happening, it's called So Dope. You should check it out. It's from 11:00 to 5:00 at the Lincoln Cafe.
Tim Fulton What will be happening there?
Counterfeit Madison Lots of poetry, lots of music, lots of activism. Just a really great community event.
Tim Fulton Um-
Counterfeit Madison Other peop- No, no. I wanna talk about someone.
Tim Fulton Sure.
Counterfeit Madison Who, do you know Marcus Meachem?
Tim Fulton I work with Marcus, yeah.
Counterfeit Madison Okay. We're talking about people in the arts entertainment scene that are great. That man has a gift straight from Jesus Christ, Allah, Buddha, Shiva, Poseidon, to make food, and I'm the kind of person who am, am really inspired by what I eat. I've n- haven't known him for very long and I don't know him very well, but I've just been watching him just like snowball into this person who's really developed this style of the way he makes food, and I love highly stylized people.
Tim Fulton And you should check out his steam kitchen in the back of, uh, Little Rock Bar.
Counterfeit Madison Oh, my God.
Tim Fulton Give me one other thing that people should, uh, look up and follow.
Counterfeit Madison My best friend, Mary Lynn Gleckler, is bringing out an album. She's releasing an album, um, locally on August 19th, 2016 at Care Bar, and nationally the following month. She has been recently, um, added to the NOA Records roster. Um, one, the roster that includes, um, Connections and St. Lennox. So Mary Lynn has been in the music scene for years. She was part of This Is My Suitcase. We both had similar times where we decided that we wanted to do our own, head up our own projects.
Tim Fulton Do solo work.
Counterfeit Madison And-
Tim Fulton Right
Counterfeit Madison ... she just writes these heartbreaking pop melodies. It's this really beautiful piano pop. She's just developed and grown into this young woman, and it's really, really beautiful.
Tim Fulton Having met her, she's the kindest, most unassuming-
Counterfeit Madison Yeah
Tim Fulton ... person you have ever met.
Counterfeit Madison Oh, yeah.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
Counterfeit Madison Second thing, I am to date the only female singer in the Columbus Gay Men's Chorus, and it is a l- it has been a life-changing experience for me. In September we start up our new season, and I'm really excited about that, and if you could keep that on your radar.
Tim Fulton Fantastic.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton I wanna close out with one more song. What should we close out with?
Counterfeit Madison There's a song that I've not been able to complete in practice without crying.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Counterfeit Madison It's a song called Little Girl Blue by Nina Simone.
Tim Fulton Great.
Counterfeit Madison Yeah.
Tim Fulton All right. Thank you so much for listening to the Confluence Cast today, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, more information on Sharon's show and the other things that we discussed can be found in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, your family, your contacts, even your frenemies. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Again, I am your host, Tim Fulton. Have a good week and support local music.
Counterfeit Madison Sit there and count your fingers. What can you do? Oh girl, you're through. Sit there, count your little fingers. Unhappy little girl blue. Sit there, count the raindrops falling on you. It's time you knew all you can ever count on are the raindrops that fall on little girl blue. Won't you just sit there? Count the little raindrops falling on you. 'Cause it's time you knew all you can ever count on are the raindrops that fall on little girl blue. No use, oh girl. You might as well surrender 'cause your hopes are getting slender and slender. Why won't somebody send a tender blue boy to cheer up little girl blue?