COTA Bus Transfer

Tim Fulton 00:08Welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week: the city's transit system is going through a transformation. At least that's the intention. On the occasion of an impending transfer of power and a sales tax issue on the ballot this fall to bulk up services, Columbus Underground reporter Brent Warren sat down with both the outgoing and incoming CEOs of the Central Ohio Transit Authority, or COTA, to discuss the shift in leadership, the transportation project set to be on the ballot this fall, and what's next for the former Greyhound station in downtown. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Enjoy the interview.

Brent Warren 01:07I'm here with Joanna Pinkerton, President and CEO of the Central Ohio Transit Authority, and Monica Tellez-Fowler, Deputy CEO. But those titles are about to change very quickly, or very soon. And that's kind of where I wanted to start today, if you guys don't mind. Joanna, can you tell us a little bit about what's happened in the last month, and what you plan for your future?

Joanna Pinkerton 01:32Sure. Thanks, Brent, for the question. We can't help but be all smiles. It's a great question. We're feeling really good. I did announce to the Board of Trustees and the community that I'll be departing COTA. My last day is May 6th, officially. And just recently, the Board of Trustees, last week in a special meeting, met, and they unanimously offered — and I believe she accepted — to Monica Tellez-Fowler to be the next incoming President and CEO of COTA.

Brent Warren 02:07And can you tell us anything about sort of how that decision was made, from your — ?

Joanna Pinkerton 02:15You know a lot about transit. And I do think there's kind of a following and an understanding in the community that things are changing. That includes our transit agency, in mobility and how we move to support this growing economy. As part of COTA's growth, we have been really successful in recruiting talent, everyone from frontline operators to IT professionals. And Monica was one of those recruitments. Now, I hope she doesn't mind me admitting, it was a tough recruitment. We stole her away from another very successful transit agency on a different coast of the United States. She has a lot of experience, which she can tell you about, in other states, having built out major capital programs. So two years ago, when we really were looking for someone with an eye on operations, we had her in our sights. It took us almost a year to recruit her to the Columbus region. And thankfully, with Columbus, we have a great story to tell. And she bought into the vision of helping us get to next.

Brent Warren 03:21Before — and I do want to hear about your background, Monica — Joanna, can you tell us what you're going to be doing next? Or do you have those plans out? Are they made yet?

Joanna Pinkerton 03:31Well, you know, that's the question at the top of everyone's mind. My next is focusing on myself and figuring out how I want to invest my time. Going through a lot of changes right now, with sending my youngest away to college this fall. And I'm also really having great conversations. When you think about having worked in the automotive industry, transit, and tech, I'm exploring what might be next for me, but those plans are not set yet.

Brent Warren 03:59Monica, can you tell us a little bit about that decision to come to Columbus, and your background before you did? It was about a year ago that you came to COTA, is that right?

Monica Tellez-Fowler 04:08Almost exactly a year ago, actually. Yeah. I do have a history of large capital projects. So in Texas, I did a couple of rail projects. In Denton County, a 21-mile rail project that connected downtown Denton to DART in Dallas. That's a lot of inter-community, inter-agency collaboration. So a very regional approach there. That was also —

Brent Warren 04:44Probably a very expensive project, right? What was the price tag on it?

Monica Tellez-Fowler 04:48Very expensive, but it was a little over half a billion. Okay, so now, this is years back, so it would be — fast forward, construction prices, it's probably close to a billion. And then shortly after that — so that was kind of an interesting place, because it was really a smaller agency, and I got to do a lot of, you know, everything from strategy, the financial model, to actually being out on platforms while we're installing ticket vending machines, and understanding positive train control and all of those pieces. So that was really kind of fun, and really kind of my big exposure to those large transit capital projects. I got recruited to go over to Fort Worth, because they were in the process of trying to build a rail — we ended up building a 27-mile rail project that went from a little past downtown Fort Worth into DFW airport. Again, connects with DART, connects with Denton — the regional connection is huge. And so, really kind of understanding the customer aspect of that, and everything we did was kind of that approach of, what does it look like for a customer, because they don't see boundaries, and they don't want to, they don't need to. And so really kind of bringing in that approach. We did a first-time debt issuance there, where we received a Bond Buyer's Deal of the Year award for that. We're recognized for that — that's, in the financial world, that's pretty big. But also, it really got a lot of accolades from FTA on that project specifically, and we had a lot of regional support. Based on that, I got recruited to go to Washington State, did some BRT projects there. And they actually had one built out, they did the groundbreaking for the second one in September, and they are in their construction for their third line there. So that's in Vancouver, Washington, which is right across the river from Portland, Oregon. So really kind of, again, taking that regional approach and the connectivity — we actually had service that went across the bridge into Portland. And so as we were there, they started talking about replacing the Interstate Bridge project. So the transit agencies are really kind of big partners in that, because the big push there is the bridge should not be built without some sort of dedicated guideway, and what would that look like — so whether it's light rail, whether it's BRT, and who would run it, and all of those different aspects. So I was the representative for that mega project. So it was the only project that I didn't see through till the end, and I was a little disappointed. But in talking with Joanna, and Emily who was my predecessor, I really kind of got excited about the things that are going on here in Columbus, and the opportunity that's in front of us, right. And so, you know, made the trip out here. And once I was here, and I recognized the community, I saw all the possibilities. I think that's when I was kind of bought in — aside from just Joanna in general, she knows how I feel about her. We did —

Joanna Pinkerton 08:29A pretty hard sales job, it was. But it was easy, wasn't it? The restaurants and the lifestyle. I hear the term a lot, that we're an undiscovered gem. And I don't think that's the case anymore. But once you actually get your feet on the ground in this city, in this community, it kind of sells itself.

Monica Tellez-Fowler 08:47It's a beautiful community. I mean, especially coming from the West Coast, for me — like, we were walking out to lunch with Emily, and I just love that the sidewalks are so clean, and they're so open, you know, like, you can just walk on a sidewalk. And coming from the West Coast, you know, that's kind of like — that's not really a thing there all the time. So, yeah, just have really enjoyed it. And I think once I came here and visited, it wasn't that much harder to get me to say, "Yeah, I want to be part of this."

Brent Warren 09:18In terms of the work of what COTA has been doing, like for the past year and this coming year — I mean, I've been writing about this stuff for over a decade, and this strikes me as maybe the most important year for COTA in that time. There's just a lot happening. There's a lot of big projects. What's your vision for COTA this next year and for the future? Where do you see it heading?

Monica Tellez-Fowler 09:45That's such a great question. But I would say that I don't really have to come in with a whole new vision, because the vision is already there. It's really just more about implementing it. And that's the great thing about it, is there's kind of this long laid-out plan. I think maybe we get in five, six years, and maybe we're starting to think about, okay, well, what are we talking about, if we are able to get the density that we need, if we are able to see some of the development — you know, is that when we start talking about, are there other alternatives we need to start evaluating? But for now, I think we need to just build out what we have planned. That vision is laid out there, and that's really the path we need to do. Because I think we need to introduce the region to what the possibilities are. And once they start, like, embracing that, and we see that, then we can say, okay, now we can make — we can dream bigger here, we can do bigger things.

Brent Warren 10:48Yeah. Well, and I don't think we've mentioned it by name, but LinkUS is the name of sort of that big vision. And the plan is to go to voters in November for a sales tax increase. And a lot of that vision involves building out Bus Rapid Transit, BRT, corridors. There's also improvements to existing service, and bike and pedestrian improvements, all of that, that we've been covering. One of the comments — I know you all have seen this, that we get, and you mentioned rail already — but there's a whole subset of people who, when they hear you talk about BRT, all they can think is, "It's not real. That's not exciting. When are we going to get real transit in Columbus?" So I don't know if both of you want to touch on that.

Joanna Pinkerton 11:37I think we can both touch on it. You know, I was here during the 1999 initiative. I think the reality is how much things have changed in that 25-year time span, especially the fact that BRT and dedicated transit, rapid transit, has accelerated across the nation. It's actually a preferred alternative. You see a lot of communities who are choosing to do BRT instead of rail, because it gets you the same headways, the same timing, and it's done at a fraction of the cost. And so Columbus's big idea, and the region's big idea, is how do we connect as many communities and create as much opportunity. So you can build four or five different corridors, which is what the current plan is. Now, that does not rule out that maybe one of those corridors, if necessary, depending on the engineering stuff I'm not going to get into today, you know, might be rail. But we can see the same performance out of rapid transit. It's also what the federal government is funding. The entire LinkUS model is really based upon us bringing home almost a billion dollars from the federal government by leveraging our local sales tax. So that half a penny that voters get to decide on in November could leverage so much money from the feds where they're investing right now.

Monica Tellez-Fowler 12:54Yep, I think that's exactly it, right — which is why I've kind of talked about, it's like, we have to introduce this concept of this regional transit to the community first, and they have to embrace it. And that means density built in, the economic development that typically goes around that, that you see around these types of projects. Once that happens, once they understand it, we may become more competitive, so that we can leverage our funding, so that we can receive federal funding to help build out some — you know, whether it's light rail, or whatever the case. I think you have to choose what's right for the community. And what I'll say is, you know, BRT, Bus Rapid Transit, it's fast, it's efficient, and it's a sixth of the cost of light rail. And so it's affordable, and it makes it the right choice for us right now. It doesn't mean that that's going to be it forever, but it is the right choice now.

Brent Warren 13:51Right. And one of the things I know people have talked about with the LinkUS plan is that it's not a single line where everybody else kind of misses out. It's kind of lines all over the region. Is that a good way to describe it?

Joanna Pinkerton 14:07Yeah, yeah, that's it. I do like that you're tiptoeing into a really important conversation, so I'm going to run with that, if you'll let me. Sure. The reality is, we have five corridors planned. And then sometimes the question is, what if I'm not on a corridor? And the reality is, it also includes that funding would cover a 45% increase in our existing local bus network. That's significant. That is huge.

Brent Warren 14:33Well, and I was going to ask about that, because, you know, I'm a regular bus rider. And I know a lot of people, when they hear about these big plans, they're like, "Well, I ride the bus every day. How is this going to help me, right, if I'm not on one of those corridors?" So what does that — I mean, I've heard people talk about potentially 24-hour service. Is that — ?

Joanna Pinkerton 14:51So that 45% increase, that's like a financial number. The beautiful thing about LinkUS is it's really community-based, as you've been covering it for the last few years — the feedback from the neighborhoods, from employers, to say, "This is the type of service we need." So you can add those hours, maybe at the end of a shift, you know, like later nights, 1am, 2am, maybe it's 24 hours in certain neighborhoods. In addition to the additional bus service, you mentioned sidewalks, bikeways, road improvements. This is the first time ever in the state's history that we would also be building supportive infrastructure. So when you get off of transit, you need a sidewalk, you need a streetlight, you need a safe place to land to finish your journey. And all of that is part of the program, to build out connections between communities. So you may not have a corridor coming through your community, but you might be surprised at the bikeway or the sidewalk that gets built in your community to connect you to transit very easily.

Monica Tellez-Fowler 15:48I'll add the COTA Plus zones, because that will be something that we can launch pretty quickly. And we have communities right now that maybe — it's going to take a while to get those sidewalks down, maybe it's going to take a while, but we need to connect them to a larger system. That COTA Plus zone allows us to do that, whether it's, you know, unsafe because of sidewalks or lighting, or there's just not — they're not close to any lines, right? We can accomplish that with those COTA Plus zones.

Brent Warren 16:22And that's — just in case people don't know — COTA Plus is on-demand service. Yeah. So you call, in the words of — it comes to you, basically. You —

Monica Tellez-Fowler 16:31You can call up, we also have an app. So, like — I just keep wanting to say micro-transit. So an Uber-Lyft thing. It works very similar to that. And it's just quick. But it also has some mobility options so that people with challenges can also use this service.

Joanna Pinkerton 16:52Yeah, I want to point out that the two largest growing groups of people in our community — so the aging community, and the younger community, so under 20 — they are the two biggest users of COTA Plus. They are driving demand. It has increased more than, like — I think it's like two or 3,000%, I know this is recorded, don't quote me on that — since we launched it with our partner Grove City in 2019. And then since then, Westerville, the entire city of Westerville, you can ride COTA Plus. And it's been amazing to see how people who maybe don't own a second car in the family, or they don't drive anymore, or they're not driving yet, are using it for point-to-point trips, like, "Hey, I need to do a grocery trip," or "I need to go to the doctor," or "I'm going to take it to get to a fixed-route transit line." It has surprised us. We modeled our micro-transit off of what had been done by Chicago and LA in the kind of 2015-2018 era. And it's really been a model that transit agencies across the nation have replicated. So LinkUS includes funding to expand that to other neighborhoods. We have a lot of neighborhoods and cities who want it today. So working on it. So after that November vote, COTA Plus will be a really quick reality.

Brent Warren 18:07Great. I wanted to ask about another potential big project, which I haven't heard as much about recently, which is the former Greyhound station downtown, which COTA owns. I'm trying to remember the timeline. COTA bought it in 2021 — Greyhound, for a while, was operating downtown out of the COTA bus terminal at the Columbus Commons parking garage. And then they've since moved way out to the west side. And there's been all kinds of issues with that move. But the whole time, COTA has held on to this piece of what's really — I mean, I've also read about development — so that's a very prime piece of real estate right in the middle of downtown, right? What can you tell me about COTA's plans for that piece of real estate?

Joanna Pinkerton 18:54Well, I can talk about the genesis and then pass it over to you, if you'd like. But that was really an important part of our board's vision for what the future looks like. So knowing that that real estate had had issues for decades in the past, it was very successful for us at the time to bring Greyhound into our site, the bus terminal, and let them run operations there — so securing that site for future development. This is where I really like to talk to the community about COTA as a tool, right? We should be supporting your goals, and your economic development, your social structures. We all know the rate Columbus is growing — something needs built on that site. So we have undertaken a federal process. We are regulated by the FTA and the DOT to make sure the site is clean, and that it's safe. It's kind of a long, drawn-out process, I might say a little bureaucratic —

Brent Warren 19:50Clean in terms of, like, not polluted, or that kind of thing?

Joanna Pinkerton 19:53That's right, and double-checking for historical value, okay, of anything that was previously on the site. When we get through that process, we really would like to partner with the development community to see what is feasible, you know, what type of mixed-use development should be on that site. So again, we own the land, but we see the development community coming in and really building that out in the future.

Monica Tellez-Fowler 20:19And I think — so one of the studies that's being done right now is the downtown convergence plan, right? So they're really kind of trying to analyze, you know, where are the best places for there to be kind of that transit hub, so to speak? Will it continue to be that location? You know, there's also discussion about bringing passenger rail to the region. And, you know, obviously we're going to have to connect to that, we want to be huge partners with that. So, you know, are there two different large hubs somewhere downtown, connecting? That's certainly one of the main ones, and East Main is kind of always in discussion. But I think those plans have to kind of play out, and there has to be some decisions made. That's not an, oh, you know, COTA-only decision — obviously, City of Columbus is a huge partner in making that decision. But that will kind of guide us in what we put there. But the discussion with developers is ongoing. And it's certainly something that I think we're trying to keep interest in, ensuring that when it is built out, it's built out in a big, positive way.

Brent Warren 21:38Can you give me any kind of timeline for when, like, the studying is going to be wrapping up, or when we could see something come together for that?

Monica Tellez-Fowler 21:47So, yeah, that's wrapping up soon. And I think that decision — I mean, we're really looking for that decision to be made here in the latter part of this month, or early April. So I'm hoping that we have some decisions to bring to our board by this summer.

Joanna Pinkerton 22:06That decision, for clarification, being the feds kind of clearing us to move forward. And the development community has been wonderful. They've been incredibly patient. Because we can't, you know, have a predetermined conclusion there. We have to let some of the studies take place. So getting that feedback, like, in the next month or so allows us to then officially begin conversations with the development community. I think when you look at what was formerly known as the CDC — I think it's Downtown Columbus Incorporated, recently —

Brent Warren 22:35Recently.

Joanna Pinkerton 22:36What they're looking at, with the number of residential units they'd like to see downtown, more walkable and connected communities — you can expect that they would be participating in that. But there's no official plans right now, I just want to be really clear, in case any of the feds are listening.

Brent Warren 22:54I'm sure there's been interest — you keeping track of the development community, I'm sure there's interest in that. So they've been great about it. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask really quick, because in the last couple of years, there's been kind of a struggle — and I know it's not just at COTA — but to hire enough operators to ramp up the service the way that you wanted to. Where do you stand with that, and what does the outlook look like for even this year? I know there may be some service changes coming, and how is the hiring going? And I know — also, sorry, this is a multi-part question — Monica, you were also involved in the talks with the union about the latest contract, which was just signed. Can you talk a little bit about that, and where we stand in terms of the workforce and getting people to work at COTA?

Monica Tellez-Fowler 23:43Yeah. So the contract was, I think, from my perspective, very positive. I mean, one, we got a contract for three years, right? That's a great win. But I think even more so — I think Joanna and I really came in with ideas about what we wanted to see in that. And that was, for us, demonstrating to the employees how we recognize what they bring to the table, and the vital role that they play within COTA and in the community in general. So it really wasn't about us going in and getting a win, other than making sure that they understood that we truly value the efforts that they put forth every day, right. So we were able to do that, you know, with wages and benefits, but also in just bringing them to the table more. So one of the things that maybe is overlooked, but it's very important, is we really set up multiple committees internally, to say, these are work groups that we're going to have internally that will not just be COTA administrative staff, but it will also be TWU representation and the ranks. Now, behind that is, we want to make sure that as we're having these discussions, and we're making decisions, that there's really a partnership there, right. And so that's really something that I would say is a win. I also think that there are some benefits to that contract that will continue to not just retain the employees we have, but attract employees. And I think at some point, this is going to be really one of the more attractive places to work in the region.

Joanna Pinkerton 25:27I would agree with that wholeheartedly. Even when you think about the fact — we're the last, like, what was it, industrialized country that doesn't have support for families. So we got out ahead of that even before the contract, with the — what was it, 12 weeks paid family leave for birthing parents, and six weeks for all other parents. We have employees taking advantage of that. I think there's a recognition — you started the question with the workforce shortage. This is not unique to COTA, it's not unique to transit. This is a reality that our nation faces. So looking at what really is important to people who want to maybe work a couple years, or five years, or 10 or 30 — you're welcome to stay for 30 — but adapting our business practices to accommodate the new lifestyles, a lot of that's written into that contract that Monica helped orchestrate. And that's a first for us. And I'd like to think of things as a win moving forward only when everybody's like, "Okay, there's something in here for me." It's not a management win. I don't believe in that type of mentality. It's what works well for people. So I think it's a beginning. It's not the end, but it's a really good start. And the reality is, we all are going to have to figure out how to be more efficient at work when there's a workforce shortage that doesn't have a foreseeable end.

Brent Warren 26:48And in terms of the coming year, and the possibility of getting, you know, hiring on more operators and adding back service?

Joanna Pinkerton 26:56That's been going great. So our last two same-day hiring events that we had last year — incredible success. We're having another one here in just a few days. I think it's April 24th. Yes. So come on out, April 24th. From what I understand, it's a lot of fun.

Monica Tellez-Fowler 27:11It is, it's a treat. Yeah, yeah. And I think the first one was very successful, but as successful as that one was, the second one — it was even better, because there were some lessons learned, they were able to streamline a lot of things. And I think people came out — I mean, just an incredible group of people who were really passionate about transit and mobility in general. So we were really excited. I mean, I got to go out and spend a couple of hours out there and do some interviews myself, and it's just really a good time. And we have everyone — we have representation, we have operators there, we have some vehicle maintenance technicians that come out, we have people from administrative staff. And of course, HR is there to keep us in check. But I think from the community perspective, we really are getting a lot of interest in finding a place here at COTA for them.

Joanna Pinkerton 28:07I think that's part of a broader conversation. You and I have known each other for years now, and I'm really passionate about people getting into STEM and the trades. So that's a broader conversation happening right now in Ohio, Central Ohio. There's a lot of job opportunities. Maybe you don't grow up thinking, "Oh, I want to be in transportation." There is so much going on here, from IT to vehicle maintenance techs to electrification. Like, we need people who can understand how to help us adapt to hydrogen fuel cell. Our operators are not only frontline service employees, they are operators driving a million-dollar computer on wheels, right? So it's an exciting career field to look into. And I think we're finally getting people to understand there's a lot of different opportunities here.

Brent Warren 28:57Well, great. We're running out of time, so I want to thank you both for taking the time to talk to us today. I really appreciate it. Is there anything else you wanted to add? Is there anything we missed? I always, when I'm talking to people for stories, I always say that at the end, because I sometimes get some of the best stuff that way. But is there anything that we missed that you wanted to add before we go?

Joanna Pinkerton 29:19I would like to point out, this is our 50th anniversary. Not a lot of organizations make it to 50. We are here for the community, and I think, you know, all of our pins say something like "Rolling since 1974." And if the community wants us to, we're going to keep rolling for another 50. Great, thank you.

Monica Tellez-Fowler 29:40Thank you.

Tim Fulton 29:54Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, and share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, and your favorite transit specialist. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.