A City of Doers

Tim Fulton 00:08Welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week: as Columbus sights itself, we examine the evolution and identity of the city from a singular point of view. That's not a bad thing, but an outsider's perspective is always helpful. Today we hear from Mark Snyder, a former Columbus resident, whose journey through writing and theater has woven a tapestry of experiences both in and out of the capital city. Mark reflects on the essence of Columbus — the kindness, scrappiness, and the collaborative spirit that defines its culture. And he shares his journey of rediscovery in the city that continues to evolve and challenge its own identity. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Mark Snyder, writer, former Columbus resident, a flâneur —

Mark Snyder 01:17A flâneur, I think, that's a good word. A wanderer. A podcaster, yes.

Tim Fulton 01:23I'm sorry, you're a podcaster as well. Please give an introduction to yourself.

Mark Snyder 01:28Hi. Well, first of all, I'm really thrilled to be at Columbus Underground's offices for the first time in forever, and to be on the Confluence Cast with my friend — longtime, we've been friends a long time — Tim Fulton. I've known you since you were, like, in high school.

Tim Fulton 01:43I think our relationship can rent a car.

Mark Snyder 01:47I would hope so. So that's a wonderful feeling. I'm a podcaster, and I write plays, and I write essays, and I'm a personality, I guess. That's what I do. And I'm a flâneur, which means that I wander around and make observations and have adventures and write about them and talk about them. And people are always asking me what I think about things, and so I share it freely with them.

Tim Fulton 02:16And I think the thought today is a little bit of a love letter to Columbus, right? You're from here. Not originally.

Mark Snyder 02:22I have — so, I grew up — I'm really happy to be here, Tim. I grew up about three hours north of here, in a town called Warren, Ohio, named after Warren G. Harding, our President. And my dad was a Buckeye. He was an Ohio State alumnus. And so we came to Columbus a lot when I was a kid to go to games. And then I moved to Columbus, specifically to Westerville, Ohio, in 1995 to go to Otterbein College, now Otterbein University. And part of the reason I went to Otterbein was because Columbus was so close, and I didn't think I was ready for a huge big city. But I was definitely ready for something bigger than Warren and Youngstown, Ohio. And it was a good place to come. And there was so much trouble to get into in Columbus, but then go safely back to the quiet, peaceful village of Westerville, Ohio.

Tim Fulton 03:20Indeed. But we didn't know each other before that. You had actually just graduated, but we pledged to the same fraternity. Yes, we did. Phi Beta Sigma. Amen. You left and went to —

Mark Snyder 03:36I did. I did. So I wanted to be a writer and a playwright and go to New York. And that was always my dream. And I was lucky, because everybody in my class at Otterbein, we all either went to New York or LA, and it was pretty much down the middle. So I went with a whole group of us. And people are always like, "Well, how did you get the gumption to go to New York?" I'm like, there was never a question of going. And, you know, I was cashing in my childhood savings bonds for the cash, and friends were working at Bed Bath and Beyond at Easton Mall to get money that summer. And then there was a September when we were all headed east.

Tim Fulton 04:20Well, and a little bit of context, right. Otterbein is very well known — not necessarily in the city, but nationwide, or at least it was at the time, and I believe it still is — for having a fantastic BFA acting, BFA musical theater program. I think you got a BA in theater?

Mark Snyder 04:36No, I got a BA in English, because I wanted to be able to do a bunch of things — do radio, do newspaper journalism. You were around sort of that — I was around. Well, I'm a theatrical being.

Tim Fulton 04:46I think we can all tell. But in addition to that, so you're surrounded by those folks. And in addition to that, part of their program was an internship, correct? One for a whole semester, away.

Mark Snyder 05:02And then they would come back with all this kind of intel. So we kind of all came, and there was a great — particularly, and I have to say, being in a fraternity like Phi Beta Sigma was great, because there was already a network of apartments and places to live and things like that to kind of go into when you got to New York. So none of it was ever intimidating. Right. And the money — the money was really —

Tim Fulton 05:26I remember, like, going to visit — it would just be like, "Oh, this is the house," "Oh yeah, that's now the girls' apartment, this is the boys' apartment," and how everybody just sort of congregates pretty quickly. Yeah. And you're right, like, goes out for intel, has some experience. Like, I think the most interesting part of that internship — that I was told, I think this was right after I left — was, you go and you work in, like, a casting agency. Yes. But your training is in, like, vocal performance. Yes. And the purpose of the internship is actually — forgive me, I'm going to date us a little bit — is to learn how to use a fax machine. Right? It's to do, like, the little menial office stuff that, like, hey, you've got to be able to do that to be helpful.

Mark Snyder 06:09Well, exactly, exactly. And I think, you know, getting a liberal arts education at Otterbein, specifically in English, because I was able to take so many different kinds of classes, and I was doing so much on such a small campus — that when I got to New York, I really was able to pivot and do all kinds of jobs to survive, and still have time to make my plays and do my art and do all of that stuff, in a way that I think some people really struggle with. Because a lot of people just think they go to New York and get a job as a waitress or in a restaurant, or a waiter, like a service job. They do. Correct. But there were all these other things we could also do. And a lot of that was through these internships, and also through just kind of the word of mouth of our network. So we kind of came and conquered. Yeah, it was good. It was fun.

Tim Fulton 07:03You, though, I think, more than some other folks, have sort of identified Columbus as, like, "That's the home base, and that's what I go back to," or "that's what I care about." I think — do you romanticize it?

Mark Snyder 07:17I think I do. That's a really interesting observation. I think I do. I loved Columbus when I was here, when I lived in Westerville. I did so much down here. And, you know, I was gay, I was going to the gay bars for the first time, many of which are gone now, in downtown — it was downtown Columbus. So I was coming down at least two or three times a week to go out with my friends. And also there was just so much going on in the Short North, and there was a bustling energy, but still a kind of grittiness that didn't intimidate any of us. You know, there were places like — the first gay bookstore I ever got to go to was the Open Book, which was on the corner. I don't know what's there now.

Tim Fulton 08:09I think it's what Rue is now. It's an Indian place.

Mark Snyder 08:13And also, like, there were coffee shops, and there was the nursing home for the elderly across the street from that, that closed down. And, you know, there was Reality Theatre, which was a theatre company. I did a show with them when I was a senior in college, because I wanted to do a play downtown. And we were this big hit all year, and all summer, and it was so much fun. And so I really — it was a very magical time, right before the internet kind of took over everything. Nobody had cell phones, none of that was happening. So it was kind of the last little moment of that. And then when I could finally afford to come back to Columbus around 2001, 2002, I found a lot of things that changed, but the feeling and the vibe that I got from Columbus was there. So I always make a habit of coming back. And I come back pretty consistently. I'm back at least a couple times a year, if not more, depending. I also have a wonderful sister and her family, her husband and my niece who's now 11 — they live in Dublin, and they've been here this whole time too. And I have cousins in Hilliard, I had a cousin in Westerville for a long time. So I had family here that could kind of also justify the trips. But as I would come back, I would toggle between family time and then the artists and the people I knew in Columbus. And as that kind of went on, in the 2000s and the 2010s, more and more of my friends were in Columbus doing really interesting work, and creative work all over the place.

Tim Fulton 09:57Well, and you've had work produced by, like, Available Light. Yeah, you've had connection with those folks.

Mark Snyder 10:02And that was through Otterbein. I had a lighting design teacher named Dana White, who was at Otterbein — he's since retired — but he was co-teaching a class with Matt Slaybaugh, who was the artistic director and one of the founders of Available Light. And they invited me to come speak at the class, and it was about collaboration. The class was — because he was a designer, Matt was a director, a theatre maker — how do you do that together? And so they had me come in to talk about being a playwright and being a writer in that process. And so what was really cool about it was, it was one of those things where I met Matt and I was like, "Huh." And I clocked him when I walked in, and then right after, he was like, "Could we go get coffee?" Which in New York, it just doesn't happen that way. It's like, "Yeah, I'm available in three weeks, so we can make an appointment. I've got to rush off to my next thing now." But we had an hour after, and we went and got a coffee and just talked, and it was like — he would blush if he heard me say this, but, like, I felt like I'd known him forever.

Tim Fulton 11:14Yeah. Well, and he is, for longtime Columbusites, he is Steven Slaybaugh's brother — Steven Slaybaugh being the longtime music critic of Columbus Alive. And so, like, he is sort of — I don't think there's anything wrong with saying this —

Mark Snyder 11:32One of ours. Yeah, right. And pretty much, he is a Columbusite. And I think, you know — from that conversation, I started, every time I came to Columbus, making time to spend with Matt and his wife, Acacia Duncan, who's an actor in town, and amazing. And they're both such creative, dynamic, wonderful people, that chose to stay in Columbus and build their lives here. And as I met the Available Light company, the theater and their ensemble, I was meeting other people like that, like — these people could work all over the country, and they're choosing to make art for their community here. And that was the thing that was a real lesson when I started spending time and working with them. And I did a couple of plays in their new play festival, we did, you know, readings and workshops. And it was so fulfilling for me. And they treated me like royalty, which I love to be treated like. And, you know, Matt would give me a random record he picked up and be like, "Hey, I just was thinking of you, I brought this along." And seeing the level of talent — it was a real lesson to me to see how people were choosing to stay in Columbus and build lives around art and creativity here, that could only really happen here in the way that they wanted it to happen, for their community that was here. Not the community that they were trying to make, but the community that existed and needed them. So it became — it is an act of service. And I think that that was what was really attractive to me about coming back and being with them.

Tim Fulton 13:22I guess, so one thing I want to hone in on and emphasize is, first of all, the collaboration, right? People say it all the time — I end every podcast interview with "What do you think Columbus is doing well?" Congratulations, you're going to get asked that too. And one of the things that is a very common refrain is, collaboration is so much easier here. And it is, because of folks' willingness to sit down for that coffee. And I guess what I want to push back on sort of is, like — is that our kindness? Is that our availability? Is that just the culture?

Mark Snyder 14:06I think it's a combination of all of that, and a kind of scrappiness still, that people aren't afraid to get in the dirt here. So there's a potential lack of pretension here that still exists, in a real way. And so I do think it's a kindness. I do think it's the "Ohio nice" that I always get accused of having in any city I go to. I go everywhere and I make eye contact with everyone and I smile openly, and they'll say, "You can't be from Ohio, Mark."

Tim Fulton 14:49That's not necessarily — I don't know that we gave that to you. I don't want to take credit. But I will say, just coming on to another point that you had — like, when I was growing up and still doing creative work and producing theater, producing arts events, there was always a fear before the house opened, or the doors opened, that no one would come. Yeah. I cannot think of any crazy thing I did that week, but people were there. And, like — I don't think I can depend on Facebook for the entire —

Mark Snyder 15:26The dating —

Tim Fulton 15:30That's very early Facebook. Like, that's some of my show. Yeah, use it. But, like, doing The Laramie Project 10 years later, or exposing folks to visual art through live music — yeah, maybe that's some of the curation. But a lot of it is like, "Oh, here's this thing happening."

Mark Snyder 15:51Well, I think, to your point, I think that there's a curiosity here as well. So I think it's the kindness, I think it's the scrappiness of getting your hands dirty and rolling up your sleeves and moving the boxes and doing the work — there's not that hierarchy that exists in a lot of other places, here everyone's kind of in it together. And then there's a genuine curiosity from our audiences here, across all spectrums of art, and sports, food, everything. Everyone is genuinely curious to try things out and form an opinion about it. And I think that's partly because we have so many academic institutions around the area. I think a lot of people come here with a value system that they want to shake up a little bit. They're coming from another, smaller city, or a smaller town — we feed so many of the small towns and small cities in Ohio and around the region — that people want to come here and be like, "I want to see things I've never seen, so I can respond to them." And they're open in a way, and curious in a way, that I think — certainly in a city like New York, where I live, there's so much noise and so much coming at you all the time, you almost have to wait for, like, critics and reviews and things to validate or help you make the decision whether or not to go and see things. Where the first two weeks of an event, if you're doing a show, you're giving away tickets, and then the reviews come out and then you can't get a seat for the rest of the run. Or vice versa: the reviews come out and then you're giving away tickets. So, I mean, and here, the stakes aren't as high, but the work is so much more thoughtful and authentic, and you can take more risks. I think particularly in the visual art scene here, there's so much more — the art scene here is so vibrant and so alive. Also, because you have a lot of space, because you need space as an artist, and it's so expensive to rent out studio space. And if you've got an extra room in your house here in Columbus, you can make your art in your home, right, and still close the door at the end of the day and, like, have dinner with your kids.

Tim Fulton 18:20Right. Let that be separate. Exactly. What else are you coming back for?

Mark Snyder 18:24I come back for so many things. I come back for the local businesses that I love. I come back for the food. I come back for the ease of life here. I breathe better here. I finally find that — so I've been a runner for, God, how many years, 30-plus years. And I finally found the Alum Creek running trail, after 20 years of trying to find it. I found a whole new writing path through Columbus. So I love to do that. I love places like — I'm just going to rattle off a lot — like Spoonful Records is my favorite record store in America. And I've been to every record store in America in every major city. Spoonful — the couple that run it are the nicest people, the most knowledgeable, the most open about chatting with a weird dude who wants to talk about Deep Purple, and also with a tween who wants to talk about the Taylor Swift re-recording that's coming out. And their taste is excellent, their curation is, like — mwah. And I love spending time in the store, and I always find something. I come in always with a list, because I get very overwhelmed, and often I've called ahead to be like, "Can you pull this and this and this?" And then I'll be in and I always find something else to take with me from that. And I love them dearly, and I've followed them in multiple moves, and they're amazing. And then Two Dollar Radio — the fact that Two Dollar Radio is in Columbus is a miracle to me, and that Eliza and Eric are choosing to stay in Columbus as they build this amazing publishing imprint that they have now. And they're, again, the kindest people. And, you know, you picked me up at Two Dollar Radio — I was at the headquarters, and Eric, the owner and the founder, was serving coffee and talking to people, and I just — they're the ideal of what you want a book publisher to be. And I've been lucky enough, on my podcast — All I Want to Do Is Talk About Madonna is the name of the podcast — we had one of their writers on just recently to talk about his book, I Sing for the Waiting. And all the writers I know who worked with them are just elated and honored and thrilled with how they're treated, how the books come out. Their books are just amazing. And then, you know, Jeni Britton Bauer. Every time I try and flirt with another ice cream — I'm talking, you know, Salt & Straw in LA, I go to theirs and I'm like, "Maybe Salt & Straw's my favorite" — and then I come back to Columbus and Jeni Britton Bauer and her Jeni's ice cream just, you know, wets my whistle once again, with one of the flavors. And I love coming back for that.

Tim Fulton 21:51Let's pivot a little bit, and tell me how you think Columbus is perceived. Obviously, we know how you feel. You love it, you're back here, it's your home away from home, right? But when you talk to folks who are familiar with Columbus — maybe they've been here, maybe they haven't, but they certainly may have a perception — what do you think that perception is?

Mark Snyder 22:19Um, it's interesting, because Columbus continues to be, in a lot of places in the country, a kind of secret still. Because there's multiple Columbuses in the country. There's Columbus, Missouri, there's Columbus, Georgia, there's all these different places that are called Columbus. And we do not yet — and I see this as a big asset — we don't evoke an instant image when we say the name Columbus, Ohio yet. Thankfully, it's not always tied to Ohio State and the Buckeyes, much to my dad's chagrin, though he's very happy he gets to still come and take his season tickets at the stadium. But it's not like Austin or Nashville or Portland, or any of these cities where you say the name and it conjures up an image, or Atlanta even, it conjures up an image. We're still kind of our own thing. So it means different things to different people. I think it's very much a city of doers. I think a lot of people that I know who are working in Columbus, from other places, are like, "Oh, I'm going to Columbus, I'm going to get a lot done that week." There's a lot of doing here. There's not a lot of sitting around talking about doing stuff with your arms folded — people, like, get down to it and start moving on stuff here, in a way that I think is both overwhelming sometimes, especially when you're used to kind of the quietness and the quote-unquote "sleepy town," but it also is a very exciting thing, because every time I come back, something is changing, something new is developing. So it's evolving. I think that's also the perception, that Columbus is ever-evolving. I asked a friend — you know, whose city she was from, Portland, Oregon, when she felt the city plateaued — because there was a point when Portland kind of hit an apex in the culture, Portlandia, all of those kinds of things — and she said, "Do you think Columbus has plateaued?" And I don't think Columbus will ever plateau. And I think that's the perception, because it continues to redefine what it is over and over again. And I think that's what's so interesting about it and dynamic in this way. And you've got so many people here that are lifers. And that's a very exciting thing, for people that choose to make their lives here and stay, and are invested in their communities and do the things that need to be done within that community.

Tim Fulton 25:19Okay. I'm sorry, lots of thoughts in my head about, like — is that leaning in by virtue of how easy it is to lean in?

Mark Snyder 25:34Yeah, I think you can also — it's very easy to know your neighbors and know the people you're working alongside. I mean, if I need to talk to somebody in leadership at any organization, it's usually — and I don't live here, right — I can make a phone call or send one email, and I've got them on the phone. Like, everyone's so approachable. And if you know your niche, it's very easy to jump in when you're helping your neighbors out. I mean, that sounds kind of Pollyannaish, but it can be a very rare thing.

Tim Fulton 26:05No, it's certainly a virtue. Absolutely. I guess, what negative perceptions do you think there are?

Mark Snyder 26:14Um, I think that it's a drinking town, okay, that it's a city of Midwestern cars. Our freeway system is very dramatic. And I think people know the 270 loop, and like, "Oh, you're just driving around 270 all the time." Like, well, not really. I think also — I don't know, to be political — I think the elections of the last few cycles have kind of painted Columbus as, like, "Aren't you supposed to be holding up the blue status of Ohio?" And I think it's done an amazing job in the last couple of years, definitely rebuking the ban on abortion in the state and things like that. I mean, these are smart, educated, engaged voters and citizens here. So I think that is not necessarily true. But I know that when the state turns the other way, from wherever your political leanings are, people are always like, "Columbus, what happened?" Because it can literally be Columbus that decides the state and surroundings, correct. So I think those are kind of some of the knocks it gets. But, you know, I don't listen to those.

Tim Fulton 27:35So, personally — yeah, you have recently quit your job.

Mark Snyder 27:40It's true. It's true, I've quit my job. Well, I left my — we concluded our time together. I loved my job. I was the executive assistant to a CEO of a global communications firm. And we did so much in six and a half years of growth, and navigating the pandemic, and all of that. And there came a time, about a year ago, or a little over a year ago, where I felt that we had kind of concluded what we were doing together — in a great way, and in a warm, wonderful, beautiful way. And we spent about six months to almost a year talking about how to conclude, and to find a replacement and do all of those things. And, you know, I really like to build things and grow things, and help people with visions realize those visions and make space for more growth, which I think is really important to me. And I felt like it was time for a new adventure. And I've never stopped — I mean, I've been somebody who's worked and worked and worked and never really taken a moment. And so right now I'm just kind of, like, the plan is to take a moment, and just chill for a while and see what comes up. Because I think this culture is so loud and fast, and responses are expected immediately. Think how many text messages we send in a day about something that doesn't need to be responded to today, right? But we feel this need to. And I feel like I really need to step back and just, like, let the river run in front of me, and just see what comes up for me, because I'm not doing this, doing this, doing this, doing this, to see what —

Tim Fulton 29:42Step out of the river and see what comes up.

Mark Snyder 29:45Yeah, and allow the river to keep going. Like, everyone else is swirling around me doing everything they need to do, but I — I think it's a very uncomfortable position for someone like me to be in, to just sit there and be like, "I'm hanging out, I'm chilling." Which, you know, it's a privileged position to be in, but I've worked really hard to get to have that opportunity.

Tim Fulton 30:10Fair. What do you think Columbus does well? Trying to depart from the cheerleading that we were doing before, but from your perspective.

Mark Snyder 30:22I think Columbus makes space very well — for diversity, for difference of opinion, for different kinds of human experiences, for different ways of moving through the world. And it allows for all of those to coexist. Not always peacefully — sometimes there's a lot of conflict — but in its best moments, it is all allowed to coexist in one space together, and everybody is mindful of each other's space, and their experiences, and the ways they're going about their lives, and allowing that all to be together in one place.

Tim Fulton 31:14What is Columbus not doing so well?

Mark Snyder 31:20Dun, dun, dun. I think I would love to see more opportunities in film here. I'd love to see more movies shot here, of national — like, perfect, big national movies. I wish there was a way to highlight the many landscapes here. I mean, if you want to do a haunted house movie in the middle of a field, you can shoot that in Columbus. If you want to do a skyscraper chase in a Batman movie, you could do it in Columbus. And so I'm hopeful that that will change over the next few years, where people can find a way to highlight the geographical benefits here, because there's so many different terrains and different ways to make more stories happen out of them.

Tim Fulton 32:14There you go. Mark, thanks for your time.

Mark Snyder 32:17Thank you.

Tim Fulton 32:28Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, and share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite playwright. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.