The Currency of Connection: Jacquie Mahan and The Awesome Company

Tim Fulton 00:00Welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, a conversation about building a business around the people most employers overlook. Most entrepreneurs will tell you their business started with a plan. Jacquie Mahan will tell you hers started with a hunch, a deep affection for the autism community, and what she admits was an almost irresponsible amount of self-confidence. Jacquie is the founder of The Awesome Company, a Grove City-based custom screen printing business that employs autistic adults and is about to turn 10 years old. Her path to running it is a slightly chaotic one that includes an art gallery in the Short North, a brief and miserable stint as a stay-at-home mom, a Pilates studio, an in-progress EMBA, and a small herd of animals on what she lovingly calls a fake farm, including two pigs named Doc and Marty. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Jacquie Mahan, the founder of The Awesome Company. Jacquie, how are you?

Jacquie Mahan 01:34I am wonderful. I'm so happy to see you. And talking to Walker — it's like 20 years, blast from the past. We're still here, and we're still doing stuff.

Tim Fulton 01:43Well, and I remember my first — I don't know if you know this — that I used to work for Columbus Alive.

Jacquie Mahan 01:49Yes, I remember,

Tim Fulton 01:50and I was tasked with picking up checks from Orange Barrel Media, which was housed in your gallery.

Jacquie Mahan 02:01My loft, yeah,

Tim Fulton 02:02in the Short North.

Jacquie Mahan 02:03Pete Scanlan and I were in that loft together for many years,

Tim Fulton 02:06indeed, yeah. And I was basically the 21-year-old kid who walked across the street from the old Alive offices.

Jacquie Mahan 02:12And I was the 22-year-old kid sitting in that loft going, what am I doing? I think I own a business.

Tim Fulton 02:17Yeah, you're running a gallery. But tell us about The Awesome Company, what you're doing now.

Jacquie Mahan 02:21We are about to be 10 years old, which I can't believe, because I feel like I just started it. The Awesome Company is a custom screen printing company that employs autistic adults. So we do custom T-shirts, embroidery. And I felt that autistic people did not have enough meaningful work,

Tim Fulton 02:43okay,

Jacquie Mahan 02:44a place to get a paycheck. And I just wanted to create a spot for that.

Tim Fulton 02:49Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 02:50it was a very simple idea. It wasn't super thought-out. I thought, I'll start a business, and this should be good to employ some people with autism. Let's see.

Tim Fulton 02:59Can you talk about how you got there? Like, what was the founding story?

Jacquie Mahan 03:04My son is on the spectrum,

Tim Fulton 03:06okay,

Jacquie Mahan 03:07but — so I got introduced to that community when he was little, and as he grew, he turned into his own person and kind of bridged off to his own life. And then I kind of stayed in that community, and it became mine. And so, looking around that community, I noticed autistic people — like, autistic kids have a pretty clear path. It doesn't mean it's not challenging and difficult, but when you become an autistic adult, it nosedives pretty significantly. The support's not there, the friends aren't there. It's really hard to make friends, it's hard to get and hold on to a job, and it just felt like a lot of adult daycare. It felt like a lot of weird pizza parties for adult people. And I said, I think that I can do better. So I did.

Tim Fulton 03:55Okay, or—

Jacquie Mahan 03:56at least I tried.

Tim Fulton 03:57You have referred to T-shirts as "the currency of connection." Yes. Can you talk about—

Jacquie Mahan 04:03Of course I can. So — currency, like, I think, you know, currency's in a bank,

Tim Fulton 04:07yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 04:09connecting — it's like, you want to help the autism community, right?

Jacquie Mahan 04:14You're not going to come in and volunteer. That's overwhelming. Or, like, I don't know what to do. But I know what I can do. The currency that I'm going to connect with is: I'm going to buy custom T-shirts for my business or for my family reunion. And when you do that, then you're connecting with the autism community. You can trust me that I'm going to employ them, I'm going to take good care of them. So that's what I'm saying — it connects you to our mission in a way that's easy for you, and then you can trust that I'm really doing it.

Tim Fulton 04:40Well, and what other opportunities do you see in the space for companies to form? What's the challenge, do you think, that businesses feel like they have in employing this subset of people?

Jacquie Mahan 04:55Neurodivergent is the word. I feel like "autism" is actually going down, and it's "neurodivergent," because there's this umbrella of all these different diagnoses — ADHD, autism, gosh, I don't know, bipolar. There's — I mean, it's a big umbrella.

Tim Fulton 05:10It's a spectrum,

Jacquie Mahan 05:11yeah, it's a spectrum,

Tim Fulton 05:12yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 05:13I would say the biggest issue is transportation, ongoing support, being — learning to be flexible. But once you get an employee locked in, they're really good. But the interview process and getting someone trained, it can be a little more specialized. And I would say a neurotypical person and neurotypical businesses would be able to handle it, and really, that's okay. Again, you have a sandwich shop, and you've got to do what you've got to do. But if you want to buy shirts, then you can trust that we'll provide you shirts. And the advice I would give somebody who wants to employ or give a chance to somebody who's neurodivergent is just pick one—

Tim Fulton 05:55person,

Jacquie Mahan 05:56just one, and help them and get them going. And that's enough.

Tim Fulton 06:00And so — are you saying that it's the additional investment in time? Yes, okay,

Jacquie Mahan 06:05it's investment in time. It's understanding what autism is, the limitations. It is a disability. There are some issues. But it's also a huge ability, and there are some huge advantages. Like, I don't want to stereotype anybody, but what I've noticed in the autism community is the attention to detail, the inability to lie — so you're telling the truth. Those are huge assets when you're running a business, to be able to trust somebody. But it's, how do we get this person organized? I think with autism, a lot of it is self-esteem and feeling comfortable,

Tim Fulton 06:39okay?

Jacquie Mahan 06:40And I know that I freak out — I mean, I'm not freaking out now, because I know you, but if I didn't know you, I would feel a little uncomfortable and unsettled. Now, like, amplify that by 10 times. How would you possibly nail down a job and be able to not be fatigued? So it's the interview process, it's getting to know the environment — that's the hardest part. Once they get locked in, they know where they're supposed to sit, they know what they're going—

Tim Fulton 07:00to be doing.

Jacquie Mahan 07:00Yeah, it's great. It works.

Tim Fulton 07:03And — you and I — I think he still works there.

Jacquie Mahan 07:06I love Brian Curtis. He's the king of—

Tim Fulton 07:08He is at every single thing. But I grew up with Brian doing theater. And, you know, we always sort of said, like, Brian's a little weird, you know? And we embraced that and loved it. And I think the thing I'm sort of locking in on is that there's a cliff there, right? That there is a support system for folks when they're kids, but then they end up struggling to find meaningful employment.

Jacquie Mahan 07:37It's also trying to find your community. I know Brian too. Brian — his weird is wonderful. It could be very misunderstood,

Tim Fulton 07:45yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 07:46and it really frosts my cookies, as Phyllis Nefler said in the movie Troop Beverly Hills, when someone as wonderful as Brian gets misunderstood, because he has so much to give, but he just needs somebody to hold his hand and not let go, and to get him to places where he feels super comfortable. I met Brian when I was 22, when I first opened my gallery, and he came in, and I remember I'd always walk him around and show him the artwork, and I didn't know how else to connect with him. And then — that was always it. Flash forward to, like, 15 years later, he's walking up my driveway in Grove City to interview for a job, and I go, "Brian Curtis," and he goes, "Jacquie Mahan." And it was so wonderful to have that homecoming with such a great guy. And we love having him. He's just the best.

Tim Fulton 08:38Can you talk through sort of the decisions that you have to make day to day, employing neurodivergent people? Sure. What are, basically, the values that you have to bring to it?

Jacquie Mahan 08:50The value I have to bring to it is, it's all about being respected and not treated like children. And it really bothers me when autistic and neurodivergent people get treated like children. Okay, nothing pisses me off more than watching that, and it pisses them off too, right? And I think often they have a hard time advocating for themselves, so I advocate on their behalf. So when they show up, I just say, this is an interview, and let's just see how you do. And if I get a good feeling, I'll hire somebody, and I'm okay if it doesn't work out. My theory in life, or my motto, is: if you leave an environment better than it was when you got there, then that is a good thing to do. So if they come in to get some work practice, and they go off to other things, or they try it out and go, "This is really frustrating, I'm not ready"—

Jacquie Mahan 09:42totally fine. But when you find an individual who has all of the skill sets and who's developmentally ready and on that timeline — like maybe they tried when they were 20, it didn't work, but now that they're 30, they're ready — when they get locked in, it's really wonderful, because they're folded into an environment that's going to be set up for them. If they're having a day where they're really stressed out, nothing that bad is going to happen. If they do that consistently, you're like, "Hey, let's talk." But there's a lot of flexibility because of the disability. Because — I honestly, this might sound really corny, but I tend to focus on the ability, and I can't imagine any other employer not doing the exact same thing.

Tim Fulton 10:25Why — you didn't have a background in printing?

Jacquie Mahan 10:28No,

Tim Fulton 10:29why did you choose this?

Jacquie Mahan 10:31I don't know.

Tim Fulton 10:31Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 10:32I know, I do. I started with an art gallery. I did that for a while. I really liked it. It turned into a very expensive hobby, and I had two small kids, and I said, this is just not sustainable for me. I'll stay home. I stayed home for probably a week or two, and I said, I'm miserable. I need to use my brain. I opened a Pilates studio. I loved helping people. I love moving my body, and I think I needed it because my kids were so young, and I could do that. So I feel like I've combined the two accidentally, because it's creative and I'm helping people.

Tim Fulton 11:06And—

Jacquie Mahan 11:07So — artwork on shirts, and being an entrepreneur, and then helping a group of individuals that probably have a very hard time getting employed. I think it's just what I like. And I fell into printing because I thought I was kind of interested that week. I have crippling ADHD, even though I say sparkling ADHD. So I think in that moment I was hyperfixated on "what does printing do?" But I also thought this profession is going to lend itself very well to the autism brain, because of all of the repetition and attention to detail and folding and counting — which, it was perfect,

Tim Fulton 11:41okay,

Jacquie Mahan 11:42but there was no — there was no master plan. I just kind of started.

Tim Fulton 11:46Okay, and you are expanding,

Jacquie Mahan 11:49yes,

Tim Fulton 11:49tell us about

Jacquie Mahan 11:50that. I'm so excited. Yes — but I'm not just saying, "Oh my god, I'm so excited." I'm genuinely very excited. So I am expanding The Awesome Company to — I would call it a different wing. It's going to be called The Awesome Home Co.,

Tim Fulton 12:05okay,

Jacquie Mahan 12:05so, Awesome Home Co. — we're doing counter spray, dish soap, hand soap. The smells are incredible. I hate gross-smelling soap, like blueberry, ocean wave sparkle — like, barf city.

Tim Fulton 12:18Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 12:19so the fragrances and scents that I have picked out are so wonderful. However, the reason why I really wanted to do this is: putting soap in a bottle is a really good task for someone on the spectrum,

Tim Fulton 12:33okay,

Jacquie Mahan 12:34it's very repetitive. And I thought about, like — on the — I'm a business lady. At the end of the day, selling custom shirts is really hard.

Tim Fulton 12:42Yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 12:43you really have to find people that need them. Everybody needs soap. We're not in a world that's ever going to not need soap, counter spray, dish soap, hopefully laundry detergent — these home products. So I can't imagine — again, like, sometimes — my mom has often said I suffer from too-high self-esteem, and I agree — but I just can't imagine people are not going to think, "Wow, this is an amazing company. They employ autistic people, and they provide us soap, and we can see the inside of the business and what they're doing." I know if I saw that, I would rather buy that soap than a soap sitting on the counter that's from a big, giant warehouse factory.

Tim Fulton 13:24How did — and let's get into the nuts and bolts — where do you get soap?

Jacquie Mahan 13:28Oh my gosh, I've learned. I spent — I started this summer.

Tim Fulton 13:30Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 13:31so I'm finally getting samples now. You can make your own soap, or you can buy bulk soap. And there are different places. I am more of a hippie kind of lady, so I want it to be clean. So I found a company that's going to create soap. We create this scent, and then we mix it in-house, and—

Tim Fulton 13:50Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 13:50I'm hoping one day to be able to make the soap. But what I've learned is, it's basically — again, it's kind of the weird thing — it's the same formula. I buy a T-shirt, I decorate it, and I sell it.

Tim Fulton 14:02Yeah?

Jacquie Mahan 14:02What I'm doing is, I'm buying soap, I'm decorating it with fragrance, putting it in a cute bottle, and selling it. It's the distribution. So I realized, without knowing it, I'm a distribution lady.

Tim Fulton 14:12Yeah, I—

Jacquie Mahan 14:12didn't know that about myself, and I'm good at it, yeah. So I just found a better — well, I'm hoping, fingers crossed — a better and quicker thing that will connect that currency of connection with a customer. Because my whole goal is, I want to employ autistic adults. I have 16 employees right now. I'd like to get to 40.

Tim Fulton 14:29Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 14:29that's, like, why I'm doing this. That's my goal. And I have an empty warehouse. I'm just, like, visualizing and manifesting, like, this place is going to be filled with soap soon.

Tim Fulton 14:37Okay? And does it come in, like, a five-gallon drum? Or how does it come?

Jacquie Mahan 14:42Oh, do

Tim Fulton 14:42you

Jacquie Mahan 14:42know? Well, you could buy it as, like, big as this table.

Tim Fulton 14:45Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 14:46you can buy giant vats. You can buy barrels. So I think I'm gonna start with barrels, and then I have the fragrance. And I bought a mixer. So I mix the soap in, and then you can tweak it — like, if maybe it's too sudsy, you can add water. It's a little scientific, which intimidates me and excites me. So I'm gonna have to let you know, because I don't know. I'm just gonna order tons of plain soap and see if I can pull it off.

Tim Fulton 15:06And so when do you think that you'll have things available to buy?

Jacquie Mahan 15:10Well, I'm getting my MBA right now, and I'm graduating May 2024.

Tim Fulton 15:16Congratulations.

Jacquie Mahan 15:16Thank you. I'm almost done. I don't know why I decided to do this at 44. My brain is so tired. I'm hoping to launch it in May,

Tim Fulton 15:26okay, as, like, a little gift to yourself for getting through the MBA program.

Jacquie Mahan 15:31I just want — I want to be done with school, and I want this to launch, and then I want to spend summer being — I always say, like, I'm stressed out, but I'm just having, like, the best time ever. I want to be really stressed about soap. Which—

Tim Fulton 15:42which program are you going to,

Jacquie Mahan 15:44for school? It's an EMBA. I'm doing it through Brown University. And they combine — they have a partnership with IE University, which is a business school in—

Tim Fulton 15:53Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 15:53so it's me and 40 other individuals from all over the world. I've made so many nice friends.

Tim Fulton 15:58Yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 15:59I also don't like some people in my class. I like lots of people in my class, but — you know, it's really been a wonderful lesson, because I realized I was in a bubble in my life, and I wanted to be bad at something. I wanted to push myself further. And what I've learned is — and I appreciate the people that I don't connect with there, because I haven't spent a lot of time in rooms with people I didn't like, because I've just orchestrated my life to just serve what I want.

Tim Fulton 16:24Yeah, it's

Jacquie Mahan 16:25been great training to meet somebody, have a judgment about them, realize you're wrong, and connect with them. And I just — I feel like super professional now. Before, I was a little mangy, and now I'm like, I'm a professional lady. I can communicate with anybody.

Tim Fulton 16:37Now, do you guys get together at all? Or—

Jacquie Mahan 16:40We meet for three months online,

Tim Fulton 16:42okay?

Jacquie Mahan 16:42And then two weeks you meet in person. We've met in Spain; Providence, Rhode Island. I just got back from Cape Town, South Africa, which was wonderful and amazing and sad at the same time.

Tim Fulton 16:53Yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 16:54I just got back. So it's been a whirlwind. It's a 15-month program, man,

Tim Fulton 16:58yeah, it's — please—

Jacquie Mahan 16:59do it, and then you can complain to me, like—

Tim Fulton 17:01I'm playing. I'm always interested in those sort of cohort models, right? And also, as somebody who got a master's degree just a couple of years ago, it's

Jacquie Mahan 17:09really — where did you get — when did you finish yours, or where did you get it from?

Tim Fulton 17:12I got a master's in the study of law from Moritz, the law school at—

Jacquie Mahan 17:17I looked at Ohio State, Indiana University, Carnegie Mellon — I looked at a lot of programs, but I didn't want to be the old lady in the class.

Tim Fulton 17:25Yeah, they have the Executive MBA program at Ohio State, but it's quite expensive.

Jacquie Mahan 17:30It's all very expensive.

Jacquie Mahan 17:33This one felt like I could work my real job, be home for my kids. Oh, I only have one kid at home now — the other one's in college — but I thought it was doable because it was three months online, and then the two weeks in person. I don't think I could have gone in person to anything. I have too much responsibility. So it was a perfect program for me. And most people are around my age, and it's been wonderful to meet people my age.

Tim Fulton 17:53That's great,

Jacquie Mahan 17:53and on the same journey. And actually, the gal that — my school bestie, her name is Jen White. She's the one that encouraged me and came to me and said, "We should do The Awesome Home Company." And so she's been a huge, pivotal part of expanding. I wouldn't have done it without her.

Tim Fulton 18:07So that's great.

Jacquie Mahan 18:08I really appreciate her. So even if I went to school just to meet her, I think it was worth it.

Tim Fulton 18:12There you go. What else would you want folks to know about just being a business owner in general?

Jacquie Mahan 18:19Oh my gosh, it's so open-ended,

Tim Fulton 18:20yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 18:21like, positive mantra, or negative?

Tim Fulton 18:23Go with negative.

Jacquie Mahan 18:25You can't fake it.

Tim Fulton 18:27Okay?

Jacquie Mahan 18:28Really hard. No one cares as much as you

Tim Fulton 18:32do.

Jacquie Mahan 18:33And you have to have a certain level of crazy to want to be an entrepreneur. And you have to accept that — if you think that when you get to the top of the hill, you're going to be like, you know that picture of the woman in the sun, like, "I made it, I've done it" — I've gotten on so many hills and accomplished whatever goal I thought was the goal, and I felt nothing but more anxiety and stress. So it really sounds corny and very Miley Cyrus, but it's like — it's the climb, it's the journey. It's like the game, or the fixing of problems. If you're good at that and you like doing that, you'll be an excellent entrepreneur. If you are very buttoned up and you like a nine-to-five, and "oh, this is my biggest" — like, work-life balance — that doesn't exist. And if you think it does, like, you shouldn't be an entrepreneur. There's prioritizing, but there's no balance,

Tim Fulton 19:22that's fair,

Jacquie Mahan 19:23at all.

Tim Fulton 19:24That's fair. And you prepped for this interview today by watching Back to the Future last night. Is that—

Jacquie Mahan 19:31Of course I did. I'm always ready.

Tim Fulton 19:32Okay, what do you got?

Jacquie Mahan 19:35Well, you like—

Tim Fulton 19:36I'm just — not even it. Yeah, go ahead.

Jacquie Mahan 19:38Okay, thank you. Did we — we got all our business questions over with?

Tim Fulton 19:41I think so.

Jacquie Mahan 19:42Was I compelling? Interesting? Do people want to buy T-shirts and soaps from me? Would you want to—

Tim Fulton 19:47Absolutely. Well,

Jacquie Mahan 19:48the job here is done. Now we can just—

Tim Fulton 19:51now we can have—

Jacquie Mahan 19:51kick off our shoes, take our bras off, and just hang out. So — I love Back to the Future. I think more than you,

Tim Fulton 19:59I would venture to disagree.

Jacquie Mahan 20:01That's why I'm starting. This is a challenge.

Tim Fulton 20:04Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 20:05we — I love the first one, but I also love the second one. The third one, I accept—

Tim Fulton 20:10I can understand that. That is a very common—

Jacquie Mahan 20:13So I would like it if you and I could ask some trivia questions about Back to the Future. Only support — it's okay if you don't know,

Tim Fulton 20:21okay,

Jacquie Mahan 20:21I will snicker in the car on the way home, but I won't do it in front of you, because—

Tim Fulton 20:25you really want to get it. So first of all, I think we should lay out our authority in this space. I have a tattoo — I have a drawing, sorry — the drawing that Doc draws when he imagines the flux capacitor. I have that drawing on my chest. You have named some things.

Jacquie Mahan 20:45Yes, I live on a farm,

Tim Fulton 20:46a

Jacquie Mahan 20:47fake farm. What I would define a fake farm as is: I'm an animal hoarder,

Tim Fulton 20:52okay?

Jacquie Mahan 20:53And they do nothing but decorate my yard, and it costs a lot of money,

Tim Fulton 20:57okay?

Jacquie Mahan 20:58not creating any products,

Tim Fulton 21:00okay?

Tim Fulton 21:01or food.

Jacquie Mahan 21:01No, none. Eggs — some eggs sometimes.

Jacquie Mahan 21:05I've always wanted pigs, so I finally got two baby pigs, and I named them Doc and—

Tim Fulton 21:12That's pretty good.

Jacquie Mahan 21:13And for the horse people out there in the world — you have to name your property if you live on a ranch,

Tim Fulton 21:18which

Jacquie Mahan 21:19is what you call it if you live with horses. So I named my ranch Twin Pines Ranch, after the mall where the Libyans shot Doc — fake — but also where old man Peabody's, you know, "You shot my pine!"

Tim Fulton 21:35Yeah. He had this crazy idea to breed pine trees.

Tim Fulton 21:41And I joked, when you told me about this before we started recording, it should have been called the Lone Pine Mall, because that's what it's called when Marty returns to 1985.

Jacquie Mahan 21:52Yes,

Tim Fulton 21:53but okay, which

Jacquie Mahan 21:54I like, because I was like, okay, this is a good contender — like, we're at the same level.

Tim Fulton 21:58Okay. Trivia.

Jacquie Mahan 22:00Okay,

Tim Fulton 22:00go.

Jacquie Mahan 22:01All right, this is gonna be a hard one,

Tim Fulton 22:04okay, and

Jacquie Mahan 22:05it's okay if you don't get

Tim Fulton 22:06it, okay,

Jacquie Mahan 22:07so when Marty gets hit by the car by his grandpa,

Tim Fulton 22:11yes, instead

Jacquie Mahan 22:11of it being George, it's him — he goes inside, and he eventually has dinner with his family,

Tim Fulton 22:17yes.

Jacquie Mahan 22:18What are the names of Lorraine's siblings?

Tim Fulton 22:20Oh, that's too hard.

Jacquie Mahan 22:23Sally, Milton, Toby, little baby—

Tim Fulton 22:26Little baby Joey. Uncle jailbird Joey. I should have gotten that immediately. Now it's

Jacquie Mahan 22:32your turn, if you want, or I can just keep going.

Tim Fulton 22:34No, you can go. You can keep going.

Jacquie Mahan 22:36Okay,

Tim Fulton 22:37that's really okay.

Jacquie Mahan 22:39That's — but that's where I am.

Tim Fulton 22:40Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 22:41what's Doc's address?

Tim Fulton 22:43What street

Jacquie Mahan 22:46does he live on?

Tim Fulton 22:47Well, he lives on John F. Kennedy Boulevard. But John F. Kennedy — but I don't remember the 1955 address.

Jacquie Mahan 23:03I think it's 1450.

Tim Fulton 23:06Yes, it is.

Jacquie Mahan 23:07Is it 1650 or 1450?

Tim Fulton 23:09Do not recall.

Jacquie Mahan 23:10Okay, all right.

Tim Fulton 23:12Do you know the date that they travel forward to in Back to the Future, at the end of Back to the Future Part One?

Jacquie Mahan 23:205 — 1955, or the one going back to '85?

Tim Fulton 23:23The one going forward to 2015.

Jacquie Mahan 23:28I don't — what is it?

Tim Fulton 23:29It's October 21.

Jacquie Mahan 23:31Ah, it's a good date.

Tim Fulton 23:33It is.

Jacquie Mahan 23:33Halloween. There's no Halloween decorations, though, during that time. Did you notice?

Tim Fulton 23:37Well, into the future — maybe they don't celebrate Halloween. But also — so I became obsessed with Back to the Future, I mean, when I was a kid, and it wasn't until 2010 that somebody pointed out, "Tim, do you know that your birthday is when—"

Jacquie Mahan 23:58Oh, what a gift.

Tim Fulton 24:00It was fantastic.

Jacquie Mahan 24:01I got nothing on my birthday. Okay, here's one. I found out — I used to be madly in love with Biff Tannen, which also really shines a light on my love choices in my past.

Tim Fulton 24:13Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 24:14I love Biff Tannen. I've always loved him,

Tim Fulton 24:17just handsome, or you like

Jacquie Mahan 24:19his demeanor. I always like the villain in every movie. Ursula, the sea witch — I'm always drawn to the villain. He is the best one. He's the most compelling.

Tim Fulton 24:30Do you like him better in 1955?

Jacquie Mahan 24:34Of course.

Tim Fulton 24:35Okay, got it.

Jacquie Mahan 24:37That's my question: in Back to the Future Part Two, Biff is seen exiting his grandmother's house. What is his grandmother's name? It's written on her house.

Tim Fulton 24:47Oh, I don't know.

Tim Fulton 24:48Gertrude. Okay, these are good little ones.

Jacquie Mahan 24:52Here's one that I had memorized, and I've lost it, but I'd be so happy if you knew. I don't think you're gonna

Tim Fulton 24:57know. Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 24:59when Biff is on the street in the second one, and Marty has been—

Tim Fulton 25:04Back to the Future Part Two,

Jacquie Mahan 25:05yeah, when he's about to get the almanac. Lorraine is leaving a clothing store. What's the name of the clothing store?

Tim Fulton 25:13Well, she's getting her dress for the dance. I don't know the name of the clothing store. I don't

Jacquie Mahan 25:18remember the name either, but it's like Debbie's Frock Shop. It's a

Tim Fulton 25:21frock shop. Yes. You know who was — sorry — not originally cast?

Jacquie Mahan 25:28I know that guy — the guy from — yes, I don't know his name, though. I knew you were gonna ask this one.

Tim Fulton 25:34Stoltz.

Jacquie Mahan 25:35I'm glad he left. I wish him well.

Tim Fulton 25:38Do you know why he left, why he wasn't sort of working out, didn't—

Jacquie Mahan 25:41They say the chemistry was wrong,

Tim Fulton 25:43the chemistry was wrong, but for a very specific reason, which I find fascinating.

Jacquie Mahan 25:48What was it? What was the reason?

Tim Fulton 25:49I don't know — he was trying to play it straight. He was trying to, like, get inside the mind of a character in order to be like, "Well, how would I feel if my mother was sexually attracted to me?" And, like, everybody was like, "Dude, you're just being weird here."

Jacquie Mahan 26:07he was overthinking it,

Tim Fulton 26:08like overthinking it and making it a serious film.

Jacquie Mahan 26:12He's Christian Bale-ing it — like, getting a little too — and,

Tim Fulton 26:15yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 26:16Day-Lewis-ing it.

Tim Fulton 26:16Yeah, calm

Jacquie Mahan 26:18down.

Tim Fulton 26:18You could actually argue he's over-Crispin-Glover-ing it.

Jacquie Mahan 26:21I love Crispin Glover. He's so weird.

Tim Fulton 26:23He's so fantastically weird. And also informed a part of my law school experience, because he sued Universal Studios and Bob Gale and Steven Spielberg when they didn't cast him in the second film, and

Jacquie Mahan 26:41they had the guy down with the hair. Yes,

Tim Fulton 26:45they had a guy basically impersonating him, to the extent that — the audience didn't really — he — they settled.

Jacquie Mahan 26:51Okay, it

Tim Fulton 26:51never went to court.

Jacquie Mahan 26:52I hope he enjoys that — like, his vacation home that he got. Here's a question that just popped in my head: movies one and two each feature a rock star. Which rock stars?

Tim Fulton 27:03So — ZZ Top. Well, ZZ Top's in the third one, that's a

Jacquie Mahan 27:08good one. What's one and two? They each have one,

Tim Fulton 27:11like an actual one.

Tim Fulton 27:16Is Huey Lewis in the second one?

Jacquie Mahan 27:17No, first one.

Tim Fulton 27:18He's in the — what's he in, in the first one?

Jacquie Mahan 27:21He — when Marty and the Pinheads are auditioning: "You are just too darn loud."

Tim Fulton 27:27I named a dance party "Too Darn Loud" as a result of that. Great.

Jacquie Mahan 27:33Okay, who's the second — second movie? You know this. It's on the tip of your tongue. You have to know this—

Tim Fulton 27:38is it.

Jacquie Mahan 27:39I'll give you a hint.

Jacquie Mahan 27:41Who tricks Marty, and then Marty gets—

Tim Fulton 27:44Oh, it's the guy from Red Hot Chili Peppers. It's Flea. What's

Jacquie Mahan 27:48his name in the movie? So good. I need — it's after the

Tim Fulton 27:51nails,

Jacquie Mahan 27:52Needles,

Tim Fulton 27:53Needles. Close, close. I was close. Are we

Jacquie Mahan 27:57boring everybody? Because I could go on forever.

Tim Fulton 27:59But I know

Jacquie Mahan 28:00that it's, like,

Tim Fulton 28:01I think that's a good amount of Back

Jacquie Mahan 28:02to that — isn't it just, like, the most wonderful movie ever?

Tim Fulton 28:06It is.

Jacquie Mahan 28:07It makes so much — cinema, cinema — cinematic. Yes, cinematic sense.

Tim Fulton 28:13Well, but there are critiques of it, like

Jacquie Mahan 28:17to me.

Tim Fulton 28:17Well, at one point there are, like, four DeLoreans in 1955, and it's like — that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because there are, like, multiple Martys running around too. The overlaps kind of don't make sense, and you have to sort of let it go. Also, the speedometer on a DeLorean does not go up to 88 miles an hour, and that's why they had to add the digital readout on the dashboard.

Jacquie Mahan 28:52I can't believe you didn't get the most annoying one,

Tim Fulton 28:54what's that?

Jacquie Mahan 28:56Well — one — why is Doc and Marty — how did they become friends? Like, somebody tell me — like, why don't you

Tim Fulton 29:04this exists—

Jacquie Mahan 29:05do a little, like, book or a pamphlet, or just some origin story.

Tim Fulton 29:09There's a comic,

Jacquie Mahan 29:10okay, I'll buy it.

Tim Fulton 29:10Yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 29:11I'll find it. But here's my big problem. When Marty comes back from the future — it's 1955, and he's at Doc's beautiful house that I wish I lived in—

Tim Fulton 29:22on Riverside Drive,

Jacquie Mahan 29:231450 Riverside Drive,

Tim Fulton 29:25right?

Jacquie Mahan 29:26He finally convinces him — "I know you, because I know how the idea of time travel happened with the flux capacitor, because you hit your head hanging the clock in the bathroom. Let me show you." You cannot hook up a VHS player to a TV from 1955. There is no way. He's just like, "Oh, hold on, let me just plug it in." There'd be no plug.

Tim Fulton 29:48There's no RCA,

Jacquie Mahan 29:49no. I've looked it up.

Tim Fulton 29:51Okay?

Jacquie Mahan 29:52It bothers me, and no one talks about it.

Tim Fulton 29:55That is a fair critique.

Jacquie Mahan 29:56They should put warning labels, like, "wrong."

Tim Fulton 29:59Okay. Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 30:00that's the one thing that really, really bothers me.

Tim Fulton 30:03There is a fantastic — and Walker had exposed me to it — these guys who basically walk through films, and they're like, "This doesn't make any sense." I

Jacquie Mahan 30:11like those people,

Tim Fulton 30:11but there's a fantastic one on Back to the

Jacquie Mahan 30:13I'm gonna have to get that.

Tim Fulton 30:14It's good. It's on

Jacquie Mahan 30:16I listened to it tonight. I have no social life. I'm now a house hermit.

Tim Fulton 30:21With your pigs.

Jacquie Mahan 30:22I have three pigs now. I adopted one named Arnie. Then I have Doc and Marty, and I have four horses, three dogs, two cats — I hate all my chickens. I hate chickens, but I have them. And then I have a turtle.

Tim Fulton 30:33You've got an

Jacquie Mahan 30:34animal hoarder,

Tim Fulton 30:35okay? I end every interview with the same two questions. Great. What do you think Columbus is doing well? And what do you think Columbus is not doing so well?

Jacquie Mahan 30:45Columbus — I will say this forever, and I started saying it when I was 22 and I moved back from college: Columbus loves people with ideas, and they support them. If you are doing something and you're authentic, you will get support. You will get people to care about you. You will get on the news. You will be asked to do a cool podcast with old friends you haven't seen in 20 years. We all circle back, and we don't forget. I really appreciate that about Columbus, because in very big cities, you can often get chewed up and spit out, or you have to pay to play, and that's just — it's a really bad omen. So I love that Columbus loves entrepreneurs. I love that it's still affordable to start businesses here. I have a lot of Midwestern pride. From my friends that live on the east and west coast — I am highly offended if anyone says anything about the Midwest. So I also love that we all really — I think we all have a chip on our shoulder about being from Ohio, like, we can make fun of it, but you can't, because you don't get it. And also — I love this about Columbus and Ohio, this is one of my favorite things, one of the weirdest things about Ohio: do you think that people in Ohio really have a hard time bragging and talking about themselves? I do,

Tim Fulton 32:02yes, yeah.

Jacquie Mahan 32:03So when you go to self-promote, it's really hard, because you just think, well, everyone knows me, so, like, my stuff speaks for itself. When you're from the east and west coast, or up or down — this idea of bragging

Tim Fulton 32:16is

Jacquie Mahan 32:16it's just, like, common knowledge. It's like shameless self-promotion. But I feel like people in Ohio literally have a chip on our shoulder about saying anything, like, "Oh, you're gonna say that you're this? Oh, I don't do that." I love that about us. Like, we have an attitude about being modest, which is not modest,

Tim Fulton 32:32okay.

Jacquie Mahan 32:33I love that. I

Tim Fulton 32:34have never thought about it quite that way.

Jacquie Mahan 32:37I've thought about it a lot, because I'm like, why do I — why am I so snarky about not bragging? Like, I think I'm better than you because I don't brag, and you do,

Tim Fulton 32:46hmm,

Jacquie Mahan 32:46there's something Midwestern about that. And my son, who is in New York — I've often told him, he wants to be a comedy writer, and I go, "You have to put yourself out there. You have to, like, tell them who you are." And he's like, "Ew." And I go, "Oh my god, there it is." I was like—

Tim Fulton 32:59then nobody's gonna know who you are.

Jacquie Mahan 33:02Right. So I had to, like, reprogram him, or try to. So I've reprogrammed myself, but I've watched — I love that weirdness, like, that weirdo-ness about being from Ohio and Columbus, that we're very — I think we're all pretty aggressively modest. And then — what do I think that Columbus could do better?

Tim Fulton 33:19Yeah?

Jacquie Mahan 33:21Hmm, what do

Tim Fulton 33:23you think it could be doing better? Maybe — like, my brain will pop something, because I need — like, I'm blanking, but I know I'm going to come up with something. Well, I wonder if you go — I mean, you're speaking Mike Coleman's love language, right? That, like, Columbus needs to have a little bit more swagger, that we shouldn't have that chip on our shoulder about talking about ourselves. I also think — and I need to write about this at some point — Columbus is a teenager. Like, we are still kind of finding ourselves, and this is not — Columbus needs something to put us on the map. But we don't know how to infight at all, which is kind of good and kind of bad, but we just don't know how to — I would say — stand up for ourselves. There's the common stuff of, like, housing is expensive and transit sucks, and — but, yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 34:24now I know, because I agree with you, and that actually kind of plays into what I said that I liked. It's like,

Tim Fulton 34:28yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 34:29what we like about ourselves is actually perhaps part of our destruction. Because if — the ones that are, what I would call, like, the try-hards — try-hards are not in the cool crew,

Tim Fulton 34:41okay,

Jacquie Mahan 34:42cool crew people are kind of in the underground, and you can't find them. So it's like, I wish that the creatives and the really innovative people could be elevated and lifted and employed and perhaps paid

Tim Fulton 34:54to

Jacquie Mahan 34:54bring — I would say swagger and coolness, but I also would say authenticity. Not trying to be something that we aren't.

Tim Fulton 35:03Can you define that persona a little bit? Like, who are you talking about? First of all, who are the try-hards?

Jacquie Mahan 35:12The try-hards are the people that are trying to pretend that we're not in—

Tim Fulton 35:19Okay,

Jacquie Mahan 35:20there is a vibe here, and I think it's a wonderful foundation to grow from. But if you're like, "I'm a big-city girl," you're like, "No, that's not it, girl." Okay? I think there just needs to be a little bit more authenticity and accepting that having a slower-paced city is a really wonderful thing, and not pretending that we're some huge, thriving metropolis, because we're not — and I don't want to be in a metropolis; that would give me a lot of anxiety. So I think maybe there's some identity crisis,

Tim Fulton 35:48okay?

Jacquie Mahan 35:49And the businesses that I see thrive, at least the local ones that have lasted a long time, they've embraced that authenticity, and they're not trying to be fancy-pants. It's cool if they turn into fancy-pants, but I think it's the old shoes that fit really great that last longer, and that's what I'm trying to do with my business. And maybe I suffer from that no-bragging, chip-on-your-shoulder thing that might be inhibiting me from growing, and I'm working on it. I think Columbus — I don't know if this is a criticism, but I'm just really tired of looking at those square, kind of stick-built, joyless apartments being brought up. And it makes me really sad, because it's like, well, that's where this pool used to be, or there was a cool park there, and now that's just — I understand there's a need for housing, and I love that, and there are people moving here, and I love that. I just wish there was a little bit more — I keep just saying, like, authenticity, of embracing who we are and being okay with it, and then just kind of growing there.

Tim Fulton 36:47Yeah, I think we do a bad job of securing historic buildings, for sure.

Jacquie Mahan 36:55That's as simple as it is. I'd love — well, I live in Powell now, and that little downtown Powell is about the cutest thing I've ever seen, because of all those old houses. And I love the businesses. I know it's hard to keep businesses going, but, man, it'd be really cool even if new businesses were coming to fabricate that or create that vibe, instead of these, like, boxes that are brick and glass, and it just looks very joyless. Like, why can't we take our heritage and our roots and turn it into something new and fresh? Or, like, downtown Dublin, all those cool kind of row-house buildings — wouldn't it? And I think that Dublin has done an exceptional job with that downtown area, combining modern and old, but the way that they've built new buildings to look like the old,

Tim Fulton 37:38yeah,

Jacquie Mahan 37:39I feel like that is what we need to keep doing, is remembering who we are and what we are and being proud of it, without being — I don't know — the negative. I don't know if it's the negative, but—

Tim Fulton 37:49it's fair.

Jacquie Mahan 37:50Let's just embrace our Midwestern-ness and maybe brag about it a little bit

Tim Fulton 37:55more. Good.

Jacquie Mahan 37:56How about that? I'm — really, thank you so much for inviting me. This has been great. I love seeing Walker. I think it's been 20 years.

Tim Fulton 38:03Fair,

Jacquie Mahan 38:03we had babies, and our babies are in college and driving cars. I have nobody at home. I have nobody to take care of. It's crazy. You're in the middle, though. You have a 10-year-old,

Tim Fulton 38:14indeed, I've got some time left.

Jacquie Mahan 38:15Is her name Indy?

Tim Fulton 38:16No — oh, I thought—

Jacquie Mahan 38:17you said — I was like, I want to name my kid Indiana. I was gonna be really jealous if you did that.

Jacquie Mahan 38:21Piper's a great name, too.

Tim Fulton 38:24Jacquie, thanks for your time.

Jacquie Mahan 38:25Tim, thank you. Walker, thank you. And I love living in Columbus, so I'm glad you guys are here with

Tim Fulton 38:31me. Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, and share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, and your favorite screen printer. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.