The Columbus Beer Scene

Tim Fulton 00:12Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly, Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week: sours, IPAs, and stouts, oh my. Columbus Underground reporter Dan Whalen has only been in Columbus for two years, but he's immersed himself in the local brewery and beer scene. We sat down to discuss the quality, diversity, and unpretentious nature of our beer scene, how folks can explore their palate, and the trends making headway in Columbus. You can get more information on what we've discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluencecast. Enjoy the interview.

Dan Whalen 01:16Sitting down here virtually with Dan Whalen, the beer columnist for Columbus Underground. Dan, how are you, sir? Doing well. Thanks for having me. No, absolutely. Absolutely. We are here talking about what is happening in the beer and bar scene in Columbus, Ohio, and what trends are happening in the space. Also, how folks can be better consumers of beer. Just to lend a little credence to you, Dan, can you talk us through your background and what brought you to Columbus Underground? Sure. I'm a cookbook author and food blogger at the website thefoodinmybeard.com. I've been doing that for 15 years. And I moved to Columbus a few years ago and have been digging deep into the beer scene, because I came from Boston, where there's a very robust brewery and beer culture. So since I've been here, I've been checking out the breweries. I've even worked at Land Grant for about a year. And when Columbus Underground was looking to write more about beer, I was first in line with my hand up, to kind of just, I guess, experiment with my writing. I write mostly recipes, and I wanted to dive into something different and kind of just map out what I had been doing in my head for the past two years. Gotcha. The website — first of all, what kind of recipes are you putting there? I make... I'm known for mashup cooking, where I take two different recipes and make one new recipe out of them. And I do a lot of comfort food, and really just, I don't know, things that make you happy at the end of the day. Stuff that you probably only want to eat like once a week or a couple of times a month, because it's that kind of food that you could do a jog or workout after. But it's what is really exciting to me. And my most recent recipe is cookies that use amaro liqueur as a sort of filler in between, to sandwich shortbread cookies. So that's the kind of gist of it — like something you wouldn't expect: this bright, bitter sort of paste in between a sweet cookie.

Tim Fulton 03:23Gotcha. And do you have a formal background in culinary arts or anything? Or is this just a passion of yours?

Dan Whalen 03:29Just a passion. I went to school for computer science and started a website as a side project during my first job out of school. And it started to take off, and I really had a lot of fun doing it. And I was really just cooking and posting on the website to remember what I was making. And then after a few years, it kind of just took off, people were liking it, and I was able to be full-time with it about, I don't know, eight or 10 years ago.

Tim Fulton 03:53Oh, that's great. So you've literally turned your passion into a job.

Dan Whalen 03:56Yeah, the millennial sort of "monetize your side hustle" mentality. I've been doing it for a while. But then I had to find new sort of side passions, because once it becomes your job, it kind of takes a little bit of fun out of it. I'm exaggerating, because I have a great time doing it every day.

Tim Fulton 04:17Cool. Very cool. And we'll link to your author page on Columbus Underground. But can you talk about some of the things you've written about up to this point for them?

Dan Whalen 04:25Sure. I do one a month, and so it's only been four articles so far. I wrote about what the difference is between the different Seventh Son locations. So Getaway and Antiques on High — sort of like what you can find at each location. I've written about... my most recent article was where to buy beer besides the breweries, like sort of a gift guide, I guess. It's that time of year. If you want to buy gift cards or merch from the different breweries, or sort of special holiday packs that some breweries have — so what local stores have a really good selection of local and national options.

Tim Fulton 05:06And what are some good stores that have selections of...?

Dan Whalen 05:10I really liked the County Road Beer Zone, by the neighborhood I just moved to. They have a crazy selection. And it's like an unassuming sort of little convenience store, and they're just wall to wall with these big sort of national, hype beers, the things that the beer nerds are talking about. And then there's Perfect Pour in Dublin. That's a really great spot, with also, they're very helpful, and they'll get you sort of what you want.

Tim Fulton 05:44Got it. Like basically, if you don't see something here, we're happy to order it in for you.

Dan Whalen 05:48Or more just like, if you're not sure what you're looking for, like who you're buying for, what you want to do, they kind of will run down their newest additions. And they have everything organized really well by different types of beer.

Tim Fulton 06:03Gotcha. What do we see coming down the pike in Columbus in terms of new breweries or expanding ones? Basically, what's the landscape right now?

Dan Whalen 06:13Sure. I mean, we have the established sort of big players that have been around maybe seven, eight, 10 years, like Land Grant, Seventh Son, Wolf's Ridge, that kind of thing. Then we have the sort of newer places that have been popping up and, like you said, the expansions. Jackie O's has been selling beer, but they're actually opening at some point soon, I guess. And a brewery that I'm really excited about, actually, it's in Newark, is called DankHouse. Not sure if you've heard of it. But they do all that really trendy type of beer, like strong stouts and hazy IPAs and that kind of stuff. And I've gotten it at a few of the store locations that I just mentioned, but I'm excited to take a trip out there next week, probably, and actually check it out.

Tim Fulton 07:06Very cool. And this is sort of higher-level. Like, we are not — I don't think, and you can tell me if I'm wrong — known for our beer scene. I think we're getting there, having, you know, in six months we'll have half a dozen different unique local breweries here if we don't already. Can you talk through the sort of trends that we're seeing? I was telling you before we started recording, I had my first sour beer on a microphone talking to, I think, the Wolf's Ridge brewers. And that was four years ago. It felt super new at that time. But certainly the sour train isn't stopping, the IPA train. Just talk through sort of what you're seeing as the quote-unquote hype beers right now.

Dan Whalen 07:50So I mean, sours and IPAs aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And they're still kind of like the — I'd say the prestige, or the flagship beers of a lot of places. Some that have come up in standing in the past few years are the sour beer that has a lot of fruit in it. It's kind of like a milkshake. It's not that sour, it's more sweet. It tastes like drinking a smoothie. Those have been pretty trendy lately. And then a stout that is strong, but also has flavors added. It's kind of like you're drinking dessert. They'll put all sorts of chocolate and pretzels and whatever else in there. So those are, I guess, the main trends. And I think, to touch on what you're saying about Columbus not being maybe known for beer — but one thing that was interesting to me coming from Boston, where you have to sort of go to these special breweries and stand in line for an hour before you get the different types of beer: the beer scene here is super approachable. And it's not as, I guess, exclusive. It feels more welcoming. Particularly, like I said, I worked at Land Grant, full disclosure, but their whole premise and mission is beer for everyone. So they open up their space and stuff, and they say, everyone try this beer, we have something that everyone can have, and we'll help you. We'll teach you what we make and all that stuff. And I think that's a common trend amongst places in Columbus in general. Like, you don't have to be some expert. You don't have to be standing in line for the best beer. No one's gonna make fun of you. Just drink what you like. And you can probably find it at a lot of these breweries, because they make a lot of different types of things that are approachable.

Tim Fulton 09:40Hmm. What are the ones — and again, full disclosure, Land Grant — but what are the ones that each individual brewery is known for? Like, what does Seventh Son want to be known for in terms of their beer? Land Grant?

Dan Whalen 09:55I think what's nice about Seventh Son is that each location is something different. So the newer location is more about international styles. And then Antiques is more about the sours. And their original location is more just like what you'd find at most breweries — IPAs and everything. So I think there are a few sour-specialized breweries around here. But I think most of the brewers are trying to have a wide variety and be something for everyone, for sure.

Tim Fulton 10:27Gotcha. And that goes back to the accessibility thing.

Dan Whalen 10:31I really love that. I mean, I'm driving to Massachusetts for Christmas, and, you know, I'm going to stock up my car with beer, but I need to be strategic and hit these places at certain times, so I'm not wasting my whole time there in long lines, fighting beer nerds to get the special.

Tim Fulton 10:53Well, and I know, I've seen, like, when Hoof Hearted opened their restaurant collaboration in Italian Village, you would see every couple of weeks that they would do a beer release. Whereas previously, these folks were going up to Marengo and getting it. We don't really see that, right? Like, we don't see folks standing out at 11am on a Saturday because this new beer that's in limited release is happening. It's basically not generated that way, is my understanding.

Dan Whalen 11:22Yeah. And that's kind of what I was talking about. It is nice. And I will say, speaking of Hoof Hearted, I do think that they create beers that are on that national level. And I think they're one of the only places in Columbus that does that. I think they can hold their own against a lot of national breweries. And I think it's interesting that people aren't lined up there more, to be honest. And I didn't know that people were lining up, because I've only been here for a few years. But I've had good luck just walking in and getting whatever I want there.

Tim Fulton 11:52Yeah. Well, and what I'm talking about is when they do like a bottled release, you'll see the, as you referenced, quote-unquote beer nerds lined up around the corner in order to get it and take it home, not necessarily on-premise consumption. So what would you say to somebody who's sort of trying to explore their palate a little bit more in terms of, first of all, understanding how different beer is made? And then secondly, how to think about things like, oh, I don't like this sour, but maybe I should evaluate this one. Like, what's a good... is it just taste a lot of different things and have an understanding of it?

Dan Whalen 12:34Yeah, for sure. But also, there are strategies to help. You know, you just have to taste it. But I think everything is pretty nicely labeled. There is a lot of learning to be done at breweries here, which is nice. It's not just like you go to a certain brewery sometimes and it's just like, here's 17 IPAs, and we're not going to tell you what the difference between them is, you just have to choose one. Here, it's nice, because there are a lot of breweries that will tell you what is going on in each beer. And I think, of course, going to the breweries and getting a flight is going to always be helpful, because you can go back and forth between the different beers and be like, this one has the sort of flavors that they say it has, I like this one better. Then maybe you ask and say, what makes this pilsner differ from this pilsner, and they can tell you. And then you can know next time you're going to gravitate towards that sort of style that I like more.

Tim Fulton 13:37Yes, you can do the tasting thing and sort of have a good understanding. You know, I think there's a limited knowledge base, depending on whether you're talking to a brewer, a bartender, a server, even a hostess, somebody that's working the retail up front. Is there a resource you would point people towards to understand what are the varietals of pilsners, IPAs, stouts? How can they sort of self-educate?

Dan Whalen 14:04Sure. I mean, I really do think tasting it is the best way you're gonna get there. But I'm sure you can find some sort of infographics that will teach you the different styles. But also, the trouble is, everyone's taste is different. So someone's going to taste a beer and say, I'm getting notes of walnuts in here, and you can taste it and be like, you're crazy, I don't know what you're talking about. So that's why — and sometimes, you know, you'll go to a coffee shop or something and the coffees are listed with that thing, like dark cherry, dark chocolate, and you taste it and you're like, I'm getting coffee, I don't know about you. So sometimes those resources, they can be more like too deep in it when you're just a beginner, you know what I mean? And just tasting it can help a lot. And also, speaking of stouts, I think a lot of people are scared of it, because it looks so dark that it looks like it's gonna be a heavy, ridiculous beer, right? But a lot of times they can be lighter, and they can be more approachable to people than these super aggressive IPAs that everyone's drinking.

Tim Fulton 15:19And how do you think brewers are thinking about what comes next? Is it that they are trying to replicate something that has been done in the past, or that seems successful other places? Are they simply trying to be unique in their style of, like, let's try this, if it works, great? I'm just super curious how that process goes.

Dan Whalen 15:43Yeah, I think it's a balancing act right now. I mean, there are so many breweries, for one. So people are just trying to carve out their own space. I think there's been, since the onslaught of the New England style, like hazy IPAs, there have been probably five or six different styles where people were like, this is the next big thing, and then they just kind of fizzle out. You know, I don't think that that style is really going anywhere, since it's dominating the market so much. And I know from working at Land Grant, a lot of people would say, why do we have five hazies on our menu at all times? Well, it's because they sell. People are buying them. And so you have to have them, you know.

Tim Fulton 16:28And do they... I mean, in your opinion, can you have five hazy IPAs that have distinct tastes? Or is it similar to Bud Light and Miller Lite and, you know, like, yeah, those obviously taste slightly different and people have a preference, I know. But do you believe that it is enough of a difference to warrant taking up, first of all, that tap space, but also the brewing space?

Dan Whalen 16:55Yeah, I mean, I think there are enough subtle differences. If you think about it, there's, I don't know, countless hundreds of thousands of hazy IPAs produced in America, different ones in the United States, right? I'm sure there are enough similarities, but everyone thinks they have their own sort of formula on it. I think that if the demand is there and there are enough differences, then yeah. I mean, you can see, just looking at the color when you pour: there are some that look more like orange juice, and there are other ones that are more like almost that pale, sort of grayish yellow, and then some are more like a little more clear. And just all the different flavors, and then some are a lot stronger, some are more on the pale ale side versus the double IPA side. So yeah, there are enough differences. And if you're wondering, and you go to a place that has five different ones and you do that flight of them, then you'll definitely see the difference.

Tim Fulton 17:57And taste it too, I imagine, for sure. Do you have any recommendations for our local brewers, bars, and bottle shops, basically in terms of how they can better educate their customers, or trends that you have witnessed outside of Columbus or nationwide, or read about, that Columbus is not picking up on yet?

Dan Whalen 18:22I think, well, for bars, to me, I feel like I see the same stuff on tap everywhere. I do wish there was a little more variety. And it's not even just the same breweries, but the same beers from the same breweries, you know. So I do wish... again, it's all about making money, so it's hard to put some oddball beer on the menu when you're not sure if people are gonna buy it, right? I think... I don't know. I mean, when it comes to the difference, what I'm looking for when I go back home to Massachusetts and here — I can get a lot of the same stuff here, and the same quality. It's just that's where they've been doing it for so long, that's kind of where it originated. So when I go back, you're kind of tasting the more cutting-edge versions, I guess, that have trickled down to here. But there are amazing breweries here with amazing food that I go to all the time that I'm just really excited to try all the time. So I think just continually innovating and trying... everyone's on a good track here. I don't have anything bad to say, and I've been pleasantly surprised ever since I got here.

Tim Fulton 19:31Good. I'm glad to hear it. Is there anything else you think we should cover?

Dan Whalen 19:35I just think people should get out, go to the brewery. It can be my favorite activity. You know, I think try... I've really loved Gemüt, we haven't mentioned them. The Gemüt beer garden has a lot of different styles, and they've been nationally recognized a handful of times. And, you know, it's not really patio weather, but the patio there is pretty amazing. And yeah, like I said, I'm gonna head out to DankHouse next week and try that out. But I'm always just trying to check out new things. And I think that is what will spur more innovation and modernization amongst the breweries. Because if there's an audience for it, then people will keep making new things.

Tim Fulton 20:21Because at the end of the day, it is sort of about making money. Obviously these folks have a passion in the space, but they need to be able to put food on their own tables as well. I want to give you, Dan, an opportunity to answer the two questions that I ask everyone at the end of interviews. First of all, what do you think Columbus is doing well? And I think we can leave beer and brewing outside of this answer. What do you think Columbus is doing well, and what do you think Columbus is not doing so well?

Dan Whalen 20:50Well, from my sort of outsider perspective, I guess there are a lot of things I love. One thing is just nice people. Compared to New England, you can tell when you get to the gate at the airport that's heading to Columbus, that just change in tone and demeanor. No one's kicking you to get you out of the way. You kind of walk up to the gate, you're like, I'm already home now, right? And then also, compared to Boston, just getting around town here — like, you would drive an hour to get three miles away in Boston. So I like the accessibility and stuff here, which is really nice. It's hard for me to really criticize, I guess, as an outsider. I don't know. I mean, I'm constantly impressed, like I said, by the beer scene and the food scene here. But sometimes, maybe I wish there was more... there's a missing tier of restaurants, sort of. Like, there's incredible food that's really casual, and then there's a lot of, like, more higher-end places that take themselves really seriously. And I wish there was more. I mean, we all point to — I feel like everyone points to Chapman's as an incredible, sort of nationally recognized restaurant. And I think they hit that perfect sort of casual vibe with the absolutely incredible food. And I feel like there aren't that many restaurants here that hit that sweet spot in between casual, relaxed, and incredible food, without sort of moving up into the fancy. Like, do you know, do you get what I'm saying?

Tim Fulton 22:35Yeah, absolutely. Like just a little bit more. There's certainly a diversity, but you're talking about like the mid, accessible entry tier.

Dan Whalen 22:42Right. Right. That also has the experience and the food that's like a next level.

Tim Fulton 22:49Absolutely. Cool. Well, Dan, thank you so much for your time.

Dan Whalen 22:52Thank you too. And if you guys want to check me out, I'm at TFIMB on social media, which is the initials of my website, The Food In My Beard.

Tim Fulton 23:02Will do. And I'll link that in the show notes too. Thanks again. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you have more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, and share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite brewer. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson, our producer is Philip Cogley, I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.