So You Want to Join City Council?

Tim Fulton 00:00Welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week: cities don't run on autopilot. Every decision, every budget, every policy, every vote is shaped by the people who step up and lead. A few months ago, I decided to see what it would take to be one of those people, and I wasn't alone. Densil Porteous and I were two of the many candidates who applied for an open Columbus City Council seat. The process was eye-opening, not just in terms of how appointments work, but in how civic engagement and political power actually play out in real time. In this episode, Densil and I talk about what we experienced, what we learned, and what it says about how leadership is chosen in our city. If you've ever wondered how decisions get made, or even considered getting involved yourself, this episode offers a rare look inside the process. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Densil Porteous, the executive director of Stonewall Columbus, and current nominee—is that fair to say? Current, you are running for district seven. You and I both threw our hat into what turned out to be a fairly large ring of folks that sought the nomination to fill the remainder of Shayla Favor's district seven seat, with 30 people, which would have been for a year. So I think it was 31 people applied. We are recording this on Thursday, the Monday after we both discovered that it was not us that was chosen. We're not going to get into much of your candidacy today, because I wanted to give the opportunity to the other folks who are running. We are hosting a panel with a couple of different community organizations at the end of February; we will link to that in the show notes for folks to find out about it. But I just kind of wanted to process, download, maybe a bit of therapy, around what that process was like for us. So this was not your first time.

Densil Porteous 00:00No.

Tim Fulton 00:00This is your third.

Densil Porteous 00:00This is number three. Not lucky number three.

Tim Fulton 00:00Of seeking that appointment. So first of all, why did you decide to do it? Was it just the same as before?

Densil Porteous 02:53Yeah. The first two times, honestly, was more of an "I've got time, so why not?" It wasn't anything more than that. The first time it was, you know, I have the capacity. I believe in civil service. I believe in an obligation to give back to community. So why not do it this way? The second time, sort of a similar thing—my job is not too demanding right now, I wasn't a parent at the time, I was single. So life was also a different perspective. I think this time it was a convergence. I was going to say "confluence," of a bunch of different things. We're coming post-election. I'm sitting there at home, and I'm like, this has been a really tumultuous last couple of months. I was also inspired by the VP running, and thinking, you know what, she's representative of an international identity. Both her parents being international. Myself, being a naturalized American citizen from Jamaica. The fact that I have my daughter, who was watching and talking about the new presidential administration like she knew everything about them. There were lots of just these moments of fear that I started to have, and wanting to make sure that, in this time, and submitting my interest in it, that my daughter saw that there was someone in her community—if not just singularly her dad—who could be and speak positively about people. We didn't have to be out there tearing people down. That was important for her to see. But also just across the Columbus community, I think for me it was also a moment of representation. District seven is the largest district in Columbus. It has the most diverse representation. It is truly representative of Columbus as a whole. And so all of my facets of identity felt like, hey, as a Black, queer, new American parent who has a kid in Columbus public schools, who is concerned about things, who runs a nonprofit organization here—why not? It seemed like the time.

Tim Fulton 04:54Was that process different? And we'll go through what you and I experienced, but what did you experience that I didn't? What was different about the first two times?

Densil Porteous 05:03Well, as a city—which is the thing that I think I'm most excited about—as a city, we have grown, growth in terms of how we govern, but also how many people literally just live here. So the first time, at the time we were probably the 18th largest city in the country, 18th, 19th. And then the second time, you could see that the growth is happening, and by this time, depending on who you talk to, we're the 14th or 13th largest city in the country. And the process by which we identified council people changed in that time. So we went from a general, sort of anybody-represents-all-city, no district-based, to now a district-based system, which also allows how we think about governing to be done differently. That allows an opportunity for someone truly from that one single district to rise up and say, I've been here, I'm committed to being here, I know what this area is like. It's like your neighborhood. I know what my neighbors want and need. So why wouldn't I raise my hand to service and serve that?

Tim Fulton 06:08And this is an excellent political answer that you're giving. I guess the quote—it is really, but it's also nice.

Densil Porteous 06:18Those are all the things that happened, and change. The first time I applied, I was an unknown entity for the most part, I guess. And so I didn't get the in-council interview with everyone. I didn't speak at that time.

Tim Fulton 06:18Did you testify the first time?

Densil Porteous 06:18No, I did not. It's a very different process, and that was the growth of the city. So at that time, governing was done differently. The appointment process was different. There was no need to have a public conversation or moment. City councils would be able to seek nominations, and then they would go into executive session and make a determination about who they would pick. And so that was what it was then. People in the city complained and said, this is ridiculous, because also during that time, the mayor could also appoint people to council. And then that policy changed, and then the second time, there were interviews. So the second time was when they introduced a process of being more public. But also, this was right as the district system was being implemented.

Tim Fulton 07:26Yes. So this, as I jokingly think about it, is the time when council moved around the city to make sure they were supplanted into— **07:36** No joking, they did it. Yeah.

Tim Fulton 07:40I mean, Shannon—sorry, council president Hardin—has said in this room, yep, I had to move.

Densil Porteous 07:46And that was the transition from a general representational body to a district body. So in essence, if you wanted to keep your seat, then you should be living in a district that you wanted to represent.

Tim Fulton 07:56So you did get interviewed this—public comment, you were able to—different, correct? You got to do your three minutes then?

Densil Porteous 07:56Correct.

Tim Fulton 07:56Do you remember how many folks there were? Because this was still an at-large seat.

Densil Porteous 08:08It was at-large at that time, but that was the year that the district elections had just happened. They had just happened, they were being implemented during that period of time, the transition. So it was during that January session, where interviews were happening and the new session of council was coming on. That was when they determined who would be—that was when the district map was mapped out. And that was also when they determined who would have how many years' terms. So some council members now have two-year terms and some have, I think, four-year terms or something.

Tim Fulton 08:47It's supposed to end up all working out. And Shayla—sorry, councilman, or council person president—

Densil Porteous 08:54Council person Favor.

Tim Fulton 08:58Council person Favor, was it a two-year-term seat, right? And that was simply a function of drawing straws, is my—correct? So our process: we applied. We had roughly a month to apply. We were told at the time—and please gut-check me if any of this is incorrect—we were told at the time that once the city clerk certified our applications, they would then go to council, and that three days after that, each council member had the ability to submit up to three finalists.

Densil Porteous 09:34It might have been a little more than three days after, but I don't remember how many.

Tim Fulton 09:38Yeah, but it was some defined amount of time. But also, reading between the lines there, oh, the city clerk would hand over these applications, and that would be the time to interview us in order to determine whether we should be finalists. Correct?

Densil Porteous 09:54Correct. And council, in all three of the times that I've submitted my expression of interest, has always had the opportunity to reach out and speak to those candidates on a one-to-one basis. So a member of council might reach out and say, hey, I'd like to—

Tim Fulton 10:12Yes, to be clear, not an executive session—literally go to their office.

Densil Porteous 10:17Correct, and have a conversation. And normally what I believe has happened is that it seems as if one member of council is assigned to speak to a particular candidate, to say, hey, go and have a conversation with that candidate. So that's what I've felt.

Tim Fulton 10:17You experienced that in the past, that usually one person would chat with you.

Densil Porteous 10:17Yes.

Tim Fulton 10:38You did not experience it this time? I did not. I had nobody reach out to me. I had a conversation—

Densil Porteous 10:45Well, actually, now that I think about it, why—I was also more aggressive in it this time. So the last two times they reached out. This time, I didn't wait for anyone to reach out. So I had reached out to schedule appointments.

Tim Fulton 10:58I should have been bugging you about this earlier.

Densil Porteous 11:01Well, it was more because I was reaching out less about the interim moment and more about the permanent moment. So for me, it was, I made this announcement—I've done both, an announcement, but I'm also letting you know.

Tim Fulton 11:18And let's be explicit here. You made an announcement, "I am seeking the appointment," and "I am seeking to run"—in a general election, well, a primary and then a general. But you are seeking to run as well. So skipping ahead a bit, it goes from those 31 folks down to 10. We were then given, I think, like a week and a half—no, it was that following Wednesday. It was basically, hey, you're a finalist, congratulations, and let us know if you would like to give testimony at this special session next week. Nine of us did that. The other person who did not do it submitted comment, made a statement that was submitted to council. What do you think about that? Us 10, or us nine, I guess. Because you had gone through—you did the second time. Was it as many?

Densil Porteous 11:18It wasn't nearly as many the first time I did it. I think it was like 17, and then it maybe boiled down to seven or eight. I can't remember what the number was.

Tim Fulton 11:18Comparable.

Densil Porteous 11:18Comparable. I will say that the depth of candidates and richness of experience was much greater this time. I was also immeasurably excited to see the number of people who expressed interest. Because before, when it was general, anybody from the city could do it, and to think maybe only 17 or 20 people submitted for an open seat seemed really—

Tim Fulton 12:55Oh, yeah, crazy about that, because there's nine districts, and if you take one times nine, it's nine times as many people that were eligible, correct? And you only had 17. But in this case—and what is that?

Densil Porteous 13:10And we actually had over 40 submissions, and those turned out to not be eligible for whatever reason.

Tim Fulton 13:10Oh, that's right, boiled down to those 30, 31.

Densil Porteous 13:18Correct.

Tim Fulton 13:18And I will say the city clerk had to reach out to me—I rent my home, and the city clerk had to reach out to me and say, hey, I need another copy of your lease to indicate that you've actually been there a full year. Which, I mean, I'm glad they're doing the diligence. So what does that say to you, that participation was greater? Does it reflect greater civic engagement? Does it reflect greater scrutiny on the process, simply more folks wanting to get involved? Is it a testament to what you brought up earlier, that we are at a political time where folks want to do what they can to be involved? What would you attribute that engagement to?

Densil Porteous 14:06Yes, yes, and yes. I really do think it's, again, a convergence, confluence of all these different things that are happening in the moment. I remember—I don't remember who I was exchanging information with—but it was sort of like, at first, no one was submitting anything. It was quiet. It was like, what's going on? And then I made my public, "hey, I'm doing it." And then there was a lot of, okay, yeah, let's go. There was almost a waterfall effect, that maybe someone was waiting to see, or whatever it was. But I think also people needed to sort of feel like, yes, this could possibly be different than it has been in the past. Because what we have known in the past is that we've always felt like they've got someone already that they've chosen. So what's the point?

Tim Fulton 14:50And I'm going to give you credit here, so that you don't have to take it. Do you think that your public announcement gave people—one, maybe a little bit more awareness that this is something that is open and available to them, and that it sort of gave them permission, like, oh, you should be engaging here?

Densil Porteous 15:09I can say yes. I'll lean into that. And I know, just looking at the data from my post, there was a tremendous amount of engagement, and the anecdotal information was, oh, I wasn't even aware. So people didn't actually even know that the interim seat was a thing. They didn't even know there was a process. So there's some truth to say that, yes, that engagement allowed people to start opening their eyes and saying, oh, I didn't realize, I didn't know. And then asking questions. Is this different than running for the office? Can you run for the office if you're interim? There are all these questions that seem to come out that no one understood or knew prior to that moment.

Tim Fulton 15:52And I do think—I'm not skipping ahead, but I will say in my interview with them, a big part of the conversation was around communication. Around, how do we make sure that folks know about not only the work that we're doing, but how they can engage with us, and that participatory aspect?

Densil Porteous 16:10And I had a lot of the same with them. I like to sometimes believe myself as a communications professional, among other things, but we understand the importance of communicating a message, a moment, so that we can get engagement. And I think, in particular, when we're thinking about community engagement in politics, we need to communicate with our community all the more. And I said very loudly in my interview in chambers with council, I said to them, the biggest issue that I see is that you all don't communicate, and communicate well enough. Because there's so many questions. If people have so many questions, there must be missing information, which means a lack of communication. And so it is exciting to me. I continually get excited every time I see a new person saying, I think I'm going to do this. It's exciting. Clearly you're learning something, you're hearing something, and we're seeing engagement happen. And my hope is that me raising my hand, along with those other 30 people, and the 10, and the boil-down, that we inspire the same thing to happen in other districts across the city, that we inspire people to say, oh yeah, I can too. That's what this is all about. Civic engagement is about someone saying, I believe I have a voice, I believe I can speak up for my community, and, yeah, I can too. And so I think a lot of that happened, and continues to happen. And I hope I see more people raising their hands.

Tim Fulton 17:39So, during that session where we were providing testimony, we were given three minutes. The public was also given the ability to come in and speak on behalf of other candidates.

Densil Porteous 17:39I think you had, or submit written comment.

Tim Fulton 17:39Or submit written comment, which I didn't follow up and see if there was much submitted. But at the beginning of that session, council president Hardin got up, and he essentially gave two checkboxes. And those checkboxes were that he wanted to see a Black woman fill this seat, acknowledging the fact that the portion of our population that is Black women is at least enough to have one seat, first of all. And two, that he did not want to appoint someone who is going to seek re-election. I believe that the re-election piece is around a critique of council, that in the past, they would appoint people almost sometimes immediately after an election, and that they then would be basically re-elected easily because they're an incumbent. And so there was this perception that they were just sort of stacking the deck.

Densil Porteous 18:58But this is reality, so I don't think it's perception. I mean, it's reality. Because, while council elections are non-partisan, council is partisan. And so you have a democratic body of representatives who are there, both capital and lowercase D.

Tim Fulton 18:58Correct.

Densil Porteous 18:58And so what has happened in the past is that the candidates have been sort of slotted, interimly. They have said, here is the interim person, we're picking this person because we believe that's the person we also want to keep around, keep on the ticket, and then run that person. So that has been—I commend council president Hardin for saying that this particular time, and I hope, and I believe, that's the action they're going to take this particular time.

Tim Fulton 19:48That's what happened with Mitchell Brown as well, correct?

Densil Porteous 19:51But they also, prior to that moment, had already mapped out the map. It wasn't like the candidate that they ran was an unknown. It was a part of the process to say, we're going to have Mitchell Brown be this interim, and then this is the candidate that we're running. So it's a similar process.

Tim Fulton 20:10Because that was right before the new district system was finally implemented. So you're actually talking about, these are the three people that we're going to be running to fill— **20:20** Ultimately, yes.

Tim Fulton 20:22Correct. Here's the real inside baseball. Liz Brown, Shayla Favor, council president Hardin all lived in the same district. Correct? Liz—Liz Brown got another job. That's the seat that Mitchell Brown took. Council president Hardin moved to be in a different district. Shayla Favor stayed, and then when she left, that's what this appointment was. And the reason why I say three is there were two brand new council members in addition to somebody that would fill that. It's hard to translate the at-large model to the district model, in terms of one-to-one, correct? **21:02** Especially in the last one, yeah.

Tim Fulton 21:05So why—if you knew—I am both going to—why both for you? Why were you seeking both the appointment and the election?

Densil Porteous 21:19You don't know what's going to happen. I think that's ultimately it for me. But also—

Tim Fulton 21:24So here's the thing I want to get at, though. You are expressing a little bit of—it wasn't okay for them to slot people in and then for them to stay, is that fair? But you were asking for maybe that to happen of your own accord.

Densil Porteous 21:39No, because I wouldn't necessarily be running on a ticket. So we also know that, again, the Democratic ticket is there. And so if that candidate who is interim is the one they choose to select to run, then they'll be on that slate. That slate gives me—

Tim Fulton 21:39That slate.

Densil Porteous 21:39Yes, correct. That slate.

Tim Fulton 22:00So for me, I—and to be clear, we're talking about the postcard that gets—the party decides to endorse folks. And your perception would have been, because you are not really engaged with the—

Densil Porteous 22:14I am. I'm not—I mean, I'm engaged tangentially, I suppose.

Tim Fulton 22:14You don't go into a county party meeting.

Densil Porteous 22:22Correct.

Tim Fulton 22:22Correct. So your thinking was, I don't know what's going to happen. In an ideal world, let's say you were chosen for the nomination, and the Democratic Party still chose a different person. Would the idea have been to sort of highlight, like, oh, it's not happening that way, but I can still persevere?

Densil Porteous 22:47Isn't that a beautiful story? That, to me, is the most important thing. Or I could not persevere. But the story of Columbus is different. It becomes a totally different story. Like, look at what happened in Columbus. They did not run the incumbent on the slate. Wow. So really, politics is happening, real, real, real. And someone else might be inspired to say, oh my gosh, look, I can do that too. I think the belief that the only way to do it is to align yourself with the party is a little bit backwards. I think the belief should be, I'm going to demonstrate my capacity. And if a party wants to call me, hey, call me.

Tim Fulton 23:27Give it a shot. I'm happy to have an endorsement. Oh my gosh, great. Would that be—

Densil Porteous 23:31Yeah, I'm happy to have that. And remember, we are non-partisan right now. I'm here to represent my community. I'm not here to represent a party. I'm literally here to represent my neighbor who's looking for trash pickup to be on time, or to have their streets have salt on them. I'm looking at my neighbors who are saying, I'm going to be evicted from my home because the rent prices are going up too quickly. So to me, that is what civic duty is about. It's not aligning to a party. It's aligning to your neighbors and saying, I'm here. And then if the party wants to call and say, we'd love to give you an endorsement, Democrat or Republican Party, wonderful. Isn't that lovely to see that the community has put someone forward that everyone else is saying, yeah, that actually makes good sense? So, party over politics? I don't know. Politics, it seems kind of crazy.

Tim Fulton 24:18To the process we went through: we all testified, and we were told that, I think like a week later, hey, council has decided that they want to do a couple interviews. If you are chosen for these interviews, we will let you know by noon the day that we need you to show up in council chambers. That happened to be the day of a snowstorm, and we were told, hey, we're not going to do this tonight, we're probably going to do it next weekend or next Monday. Well, we weren't told everybody at that point. We were told, we will tell you by Friday if we need you the following Monday. And then that following Friday, 20 minutes after noon—because we were told by noon—we all got an email that said, surprise, we're actually going to interview everybody. And here are the two days that we're going to do interviews. And please fill out this Google form for your availability. I will tell you my feeling; I'm not even going to wait for yours, and you can respond to mine. I was pretty disappointed. I felt because—I do remember what your reaction was—my feeling was, oh, you guys have not culled the field at all. This is all still very open. If I would love the honor to move forward, of course, but I would also kind of like to, if I'm not going to be in this anymore, just let me out. You don't have to give me one more interview. Again, honored to do it. Good conversation, love getting in front of those folks. You were excited. 100%. When the pool stayed open, you were like, well, I still got a chance. I'm still in.

Densil Porteous 26:11Well, it was even less—it was less that belief that I was still in it, but more, I have an opportunity to share more of my story. That opportunity to sit down in front of council and say, these are the reasons why I'm doing what I'm doing, was essential to me. This is the thing about when people aren't at the table. I was at the table. I had a chance to sit at the table with every council person and say, this is why I think what you're doing is wrong, this is why I have an interest in being a part of this team, and this is how I think you can be better. Isn't that a freaking amazing opportunity? So I was excited about it. Other than having three minutes where I also got cut off early—I'm not going to get into that one. That buzzer came on, and I was like, are you kidding me? No one else got a buzzer. And that's totally rude and inappropriate. But that's a whole nother thing. For me, it was like, I just had an opportunity to sit down in a room 10 minutes with counselors and talk about, and give them some input. They had questions, I had really direct answers, and that was great. But I also felt like—this, again, communications person, and hopefully they leaned into it, but I haven't seen them lean into it yet—what a great story to tell. When your community is saying, oh, we thought this is what's going to happen, and then look at what happened. Maybe there was some indecision in the room, maybe we couldn't come to a conclusion of what we wanted to do. But isn't that—

Tim Fulton 27:32And you and I both agree that that's why they didn't cull the field anymore, that they simply weren't in agreement of, like, who are these smaller number of finalists. And then they just said, okay, we'll just keep the field where it is.

Densil Porteous 27:49And it's probably also, I think when you are thinking about communication, they're probably also thinking about, what's the response going to be? Like, what would be the community response if we pick X, or we pick X? Also, what is the perception? I went in there and said, very loudly, look, I think about all of the things. I'm a queer Black man. You already got one of those on council. Can you have two? And I was like, well, you can, yeah, you can. But I also know what perception looks like. I also know that I walked up to give my three-minute testimony, and I was staring at three Black men. Can you have three? Can you have four now, apparently? Because before, when you had all cis white men, no one said anything. So can't you have more of the same thing? Which, to me, was also a moment of where I believe there may have been some validation for the rest of the folks in the room to say, oh yeah, we can. So maybe we don't have to pick a Black female in this moment. We can pick someone else who looks different than what we think, because intersectional identities are important. Again, I may walk into a room and people may see a Black man, but I'm a queer Black man, but I'm also a queer Black new American. And I exist on a gender binary—I exist in this space of non-binary. I'm like, I don't—male, female, whatever. I use all of these languages to describe myself. So I'm not the same as the rest of you sitting right there on the pretzel, and therefore I actually represent more voices in the community. My eight-year-old daughter is a Black woman—trust me, well, she's a girl, she's going to be a woman soon—but I can speak for my daughter. She empowers me, and I have to think about her, so I can think about Black women, because I had a mother who was a Black woman. So I don't think the comment of saying we have to see them here means that they're not going to be represented here. Now, I do think visual representation matters, so that's a thing. So, that said, to see a Black woman on council is important, yes. But to know that we are doing the work for all Black women, that's important as well. So whether you have one, if not more—whether you have one sitting there, you should always be able to do the work for the community that you need to serve.

Tim Fulton 29:52And did they address the fact that you were planning on running again? Did they just sort of say, like—

Densil Porteous 29:57No, no one asked until the very end. And I thank the council member for asking, who did. It was like, well, you know, you are saying that you're going to run again, and what if we don't pick you to be the person on the slate? I said, that's okay.

Tim Fulton 29:57So the slate was acknowledged.

Densil Porteous 29:57Acknowledged. And I said, that's okay. I said, wow, what a great story again to tell in the community. Now that's going to be for the Democrats to deal with. They're going to say, well, we're not picking this person, and then that's going to be a story you have to deal with, with the community. But that's still a great story to tell, to me. That we didn't automatically pick the incumbent, and now the incumbent has to run on their own. Wow, what an amazing—

Tim Fulton 30:36Really, I think the thing that keeps coming up for me, that I tried to convey to them in my interview, was the appointment that they were doing was a civic process, or should be. And that the person who gets endorsed for the ballot in the fall is a political process, and not one that should be happening in City Hall. It should be happening with your advisors, or around your kitchen table. That is totally fine. And I don't think they muddied it necessarily. I think they decided not to muddy it, because there would have been some perception—just that timeline of that story to tell, it would have been too long. It would have been assumed, I think, if they had appointed you, that if you continued to pursue your candidacy, it would have been perceived, without the party even having a chance to weigh in, as, well, they just put up somebody who's going to be a seat-setter. But I think we both know that that likely is not what would have happened, because—

Densil Porteous 31:41I also told them I'm running as an independent. An independent. So I did say that in the meeting. I said, as an independent, so that makes it easier for you to run someone else against me.

Tim Fulton 31:49And the thing that I don't think has been said publicly, but is a very poorly kept secret, is that the party has actually already identified the person that they have been collecting signatures for, that they are going to—I would perceive—I don't think it's a done deal, the endorsement. Correct? I don't know if an endorsement will happen before the primary in April or May.

Densil Porteous 31:49The primary is in May.

Tim Fulton 31:49In May. But Tiara Ross is running, and did not seek appointment, correct? As of right now, our understanding is that there are four total candidates.

Densil Porteous 31:49There might be three.

Tim Fulton 31:49There might be three. But the other ones, other than Tiara Ross, all of them sought appointment. The ones we know are you, Jesse—what's Jesse? Jesse Circle Vogel, with the V. Vogel. Jesse Vogel, sorry. Hopefully—this is why editing is great. And what's Kate's hyphenated—don't remember? Oh, I just—I'm not going to say it because there's uncertainty, I don't want to call somebody out. So it's you, Jesse Vogel, who also sought nomination. And then there's some question. There's a fourth person that I'm not going to say their name, because I don't know if they're actually running. My perception is they're going to be at that panel at the end of February, but signatures are due on February 5, so we'll find out. How do you feel about how all of it went?

Densil Porteous 33:21I feel good. Look, as I said to the council, I'm just appreciative of the discourse that has happened in the community. And whether it's two people or 20 people or 200 people who've been talking about it, something different has happened. And, again, people's memories are short. The story of Columbus politics, or whatever it is, may have a little bit of a bump. Someone may be inspired—a 13-year-old or a 22-year-old, or even a 40-year-old—may be inspired to say, you know what, I really appreciated seeing all of this, a glimpse of what happened, and now I'm going to do something different. I have friends who have paid attention to this process, and they have said, I've never been involved in local politics like this until now. How amazing is that? I think that, to me, is what this is all about, to inspire our community to be engaged in politics, in the civics of it all. We are growing so rapidly as a city, and so if we are not prepared for what we're going to be on the other side—and the way preparation happens is by being knowledgeable about the present, understanding the present, so that the future doesn't kick you in the butt. And so that's what I'm excited about, that this process, I think hopefully, has inspired people to look a little bit deeper into what's happening here in Columbus, to consider what their power is in this moment, and then to realize we are in a new system that has districts, and representation means something more so than it ever did. I grew up in New York City. This is new—this is what I'm used to. We had boroughs, and we had sub-neighborhoods, and all these things. So here we are, finally growing up. And we are entering these little tween years, and we need to be prepared, because what's coming down the pike is going to require more civic engagement. It's going to require more people bubbling up from these communities in the districts, saying, I'm ready to represent my area. Because Columbus is not going to get less complicated. It's just going to become more complicated and complex. So be prepared.

Tim Fulton 35:24And I will say, just for those listening that are like, oh, this was interesting, now I don't need to go to the panel discussion—there was a lot of inside baseball we did. That's what I wanted to do. I don't know what I'm calling the episode yet. It's probably going to be some version of, like, "So you want to run for council?" The panel discussion at the end of the month—I actually spoke with the organizers yesterday, and we were talking about the process, and very quickly I was told that's way too inside baseball. This is not what civic engagement is about. It's about what are the problems that the community faces, and who will be the best candidate to help address it.

Densil Porteous 36:08Well, I think the inside baseball helps. It's information. How did that happen? Correct. So it has been helpful for me to understand the past so that I can, again, prepare for the future. If I didn't get that deep into understanding, and knowing council members for the last several years—and by knowing, I mean not necessarily getting to know, I do as I did, but also just literally opening up the internet and looking back at who was on council, where did they transition, where did they come from, all of that stuff. If you are ready and prepared to be engaged in the civics of your community, then you should know the history of it. You should know who came before you, and then be able to understand how you can leverage your talents to do better for the community. So those are the things that I study, those are the things I understand. And I think in the conversation that hopefully we have, it's going to be fruitful and engaging later on in February. I think that's when we talk about, right, what have we done? That's when we can get into the meat and potatoes of what have we done, and how do we see ourselves doing the work. That will be a very different conversation, because I think it also will be, hopefully, what has inspired us to do the work, and what keeps us doing the work that we're doing. That is going to be a really important question, that is hopefully where people can say, I see you, and yeah, I'm going to vote for you. Not just because you understand the inside, the politics of it, but what I'm hearing from you in this moment is that you understand the humanity of the community that you're prepared to serve. Not that you understand the politics of the party that has called you, or said that you need to be part of it, or that you understand the politics of government that'll be helpful. But in this moment, it's to understand civic duty, which is my service to you, my community member. How can I help you? As I say to people often, find the joy that I think we are all trying to find.

Tim Fulton 38:08Densil, thank you for your time today. **38:12** Thank you for having me.

Tim Fulton 38:19Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite advocate. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.