Six Word Memoirs

Tim Fulton 0:09Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week I sat down with author and journalist Larry Smith, the creator of Six-Word Memoirs. Larry and I talk about the project in its various iterations and how the concept came to be. We also go over his background, why we all want to tell stories, and the importance of mentors, which is a very familiar topic for listeners to the Confluence Cast. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Larry Smith, the creator of the Six Word Memoir project. Larry, how are you?

Larry Smith 1:26I'm good. Nice to be with you today, Tim.

Tim Fulton 1:28Thank you. First of all, walk us through what is the Six Word Memoir project.

Larry Smith 1:32Well, first I guess what is a Six Word Memoir?

Tim Fulton 1:35Okay.

Larry Smith 1:35And a Six Word Memoir, or sometimes referred to a Six Word Story, but that's a little different.

Tim Fulton 1:39Okay.

Larry Smith 1:39The Six Word Memoir is a story about your life in exactly six words. Not less, not more, but definitely not less, six words. And the idea is if you had just six words to describe your life, how would you do it? It, it forces you to ... The limitation forces you to do a couple of things.

Tim Fulton 1:56Okay.

Larry Smith 1:57One, you have to really think about what you want to say about your life, and we're all ... We all like parameters. We really do. And even before the age of Twitter and Facebook status updates, which I guess have no parameter-

Tim Fulton 2:07Right

Larry Smith 2:08... or that I know of, never hit it. Uh, we like, we like a box. I had started a more general user-generated content web magazine called Smith Magazine-

Tim Fulton 2:17Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 2:17... about a year before I came up with the Six Word Memoir concept, and we didn't have parameters. It was just, "Hey, do you have a story about a, a crazy breakup? Put it on this section. Did you have a life-changing moment? This section." And people liked it, and some people came to the site and got some attention. But it took-

Tim Fulton 2:33And when wa- when was that?

Larry Smith 2:34Oh, this was, uh, January 2006.

Tim Fulton 2:36Okay.

Larry Smith 2:37January 6, 2006, which is National Smith Day. One of those things that already exist, you know.

Tim Fulton 2:42Okay.

Larry Smith 2:43Uh, based on, uh, John Smith, one of the early founders-

Tim Fulton 2:46Okay

Larry Smith 2:47... of America. And there's, there was an adventurer named another Smith. And someone made Smith Day, and I'm looking for a day to launch, I said, "Well, let's do it on National Smith Day," which was Janua- which is January 6th.

Tim Fulton 2:57Okay.

Larry Smith 2:57And we just celebrated, uh, 11 years, uh, with Smith Magazine and 10 years with Six Word Memoirs.

Tim Fulton 3:02Okay.

Larry Smith 3:02And I launched this user-generated content website. And when I offered just one other idea, and people were getting nervous about in 2006, "Larry, you're doing a user-generated content website. None of those words mean much to anyone."

Tim Fulton 3:17At that point, right.

Larry Smith 3:18I- it didn't. "You don't have a business plan." Didn't. "And how can you be ... How can this be working?"

Tim Fulton 3:23Right.

Larry Smith 3:23And the answer was it wasn't as a business. I was freelancing to get by. I, you know, I had a simpler life then.

Tim Fulton 3:29Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 3:30And then when I just popped another idea on the site, and my six words on that is, "Threw spaghetti at wall. Some stuck."

Tim Fulton 3:39Okay.

Larry Smith 3:39Which is the story of Six Word Memoirs. It was another bit of spaghetti. A little bit lucky, a little bit smart. And I said, "Okay, community." You know, small community that knows this project, Smith Magazine, this website. "What if you had just six words to describe your life?" And now you're thinking, Tim, "Why six?"

Tim Fulton 3:55Okay.

Larry Smith 3:56Some of the listeners know why six and some don't. But the-

Tim Fulton 3:58And I believe I've read why six

Larry Smith 4:00... the Hemingway story.

Tim Fulton 4:01Right. And it is Hemingway's six-word story, and it was like a bar bet or something.

Larry Smith 4:04It was a bar-

Tim Fulton 4:05Right

Larry Smith 4:05... right.

Tim Fulton 4:05Right.

Larry Smith 4:05It's a literary legend. Did it happen? Did it not? We don't know.

Tim Fulton 4:08Right.

Larry Smith 4:08We've decided it's a legend, and maybe it did happen.

Tim Fulton 4:10And his, his six-word story was, "For sale: baby shoes, never worn." I would like to assume not an autobiography for him, but simply a, "I wrote a piece of literature that draws people in, and it was only six words."

Larry Smith 4:23Exactly. And in the bar bet story, it's that, you know, Hemingway is known as this simple, muscular writer. Not a lot of fancy words, right?

Tim Fulton 4:32Okay.

Larry Smith 4:32Simple prose. But beloved. People love Hemingway. And the idea was in the bar bet, "Oh, Hemingway, you c- you're such a good writer. You write so simply. Well, write a whole novel in just six words."

Tim Fulton 4:44Right.

Larry Smith 4:44So, "For sale: baby shoes, never worn." Now if I ask a class of third graders, what does that mean? They will talk-

Tim Fulton 4:51That's a little morose for a class of third graders, isn't it?

Larry Smith 4:54I- it is. I have done it actually with third graders, but I'm usually when I'm in classrooms it's usually actually sort of seventh or eighth grade up through high school. But indeed-

Tim Fulton 5:00They can handle that, right

Larry Smith 5:01... even third graders, like, "Hey, let's create a backstory." And they'll say things to me like, "Well, maybe, maybe the baby died." Sure.

Tim Fulton 5:09Right.

Larry Smith 5:09But then I think this was a third grader, might have been a fifth grader, but it was a pretty young kid said-

Tim Fulton 5:13Okay

Larry Smith 5:13... to me, and, you know, I've been in so many classrooms, um, in the last 10 years talking about storytelling in six words. But somebody said to me something after years of doing this that I'd never heard. And it was by a l- young kid. He said, "Well, maybe the child grew up too fast and felt like they never had a childhood." And I'm like, "Wow." And that's the thing, right? It's those moments.

Tim Fulton 5:33Right.

Larry Smith 5:33And so what does a good six worder do? Well, the Hemingway novel, it invokes you to say three more words. Tell me more.

Tim Fulton 5:39Right.

Larry Smith 5:39You write the backstory in your head. And we can talk more about how I use backstories in live events, uh, later. But a good six worder will tell a story in and of itself. One tooth, one cavity, life's cruel.

Tim Fulton 5:52Okay

Larry Smith 5:53... ex-wife and contractor now have house. Married by Elvis, divorced by Friday. How could you not wanna know the backstory, right?

Tim Fulton 6:01Right.

Larry Smith 6:01But even without that, and I don't know the backstory, that came in through the site sixwordmemoirs.com.

Tim Fulton 6:06Right.

Larry Smith 6:06I, I will actually admit that I, I did email the writer looking for the backstory. No reply.

Tim Fulton 6:10Okay.

Larry Smith 6:10Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I really wanted to know.

Tim Fulton 6:13Right.

Larry Smith 6:13But married by Elvis, divorced by Friday, we know what happened. There's a narrative arc.

Tim Fulton 6:18Right.

Larry Smith 6:18You know? Mom's Alzheimer's, she forgets, I remember. Every Alzheimer's story is different and singular to you and, and those you love-

Tim Fulton 6:29Right

Larry Smith 6:29... but there's a relatable aspect in just those six words.

Tim Fulton 6:32This is what Alzheimer's does, this is what it does to the per- person around it, right?

Larry Smith 6:36Exactly. Cursed with cancer, blessed with friends. It's that mental like button. On the site you can actually hit a button, a favorite, not like.

Tim Fulton 6:44Right.

Larry Smith 6:44But, and that's what good storytelling does. It tells something about you, the storyteller, the protagonist in that story, you, your life, but then there's a relatable, there's a universal reality to that which someone says, "Yeah, me too," or, "Not me, but my friend," or, "My sister." And that's what connects us as humans, our stories.

Tim Fulton 7:03So let's step back a bit. You're a journalist by trade, is that correct?

Larry Smith 7:06Yeah.

Tim Fulton 7:06Okay. Went to school for it?

Larry Smith 7:08Uh, not really, but I was a single-minded, boring person even through grade school. Like, fourth grade, the fourth grade newspaper. No other skills. Always wanted to be a journalist.

Tim Fulton 7:17Okay.

Larry Smith 7:18The big dream at some point was to be a film critic, 'cause I love film.

Tim Fulton 7:21Uh-huh.

Larry Smith 7:21And, uh, and then I just, I just, you know, I just went into journalism. I went to, uh, University of Pennsylvania. No journalism program there, but a great, uh, school newspaper.

Tim Fulton 7:32Okay.

Larry Smith 7:32And an English department and a history department. These are very good things for future journalists and storytellers, English and history.

Tim Fulton 7:38Right.

Larry Smith 7:38And I just, you know, I hung out at the school paper. I was one of those guys and, um, and women. And I just got the bug, and that's all I wanted to do. Um, so I, I did... You know, there's a few different, uh, routes to, uh, becoming a, a journalist, I think.

Tim Fulton 7:54Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 7:55And, and they, they haven't changed that much in, in the past, uh, 20 years that I've been doing this. There is the get the worst job you can get at the best place you can get.

Tim Fulton 8:05Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 8:05Um, so fact checker, editorial assistant, maybe intern, hopefully paid. And you go and maybe you move to New York, or you live with six friends in a one-bedroom, all that.

Tim Fulton 8:15And here's our plug for the film Bright Lights, Big City.

Larry Smith 8:18It's totally Bright Lights, Big City, right?

Tim Fulton 8:20Right.

Larry Smith 8:20And that didn't not appeal to me, but San Francisco, having grown up on the East Coast, really appealed to me.

Tim Fulton 8:26Okay. Just because it was something different?

Larry Smith 8:28It was just something different, because I visited once as a kid with my family, and I fell in love with the Fisherman's Wharf, never to go back there again. Because, you know, you, you don't really go to Fisherman's Wharf.

Tim Fulton 8:37Right.

Larry Smith 8:37I mean, it's actually not bad, but-

Tim Fulton 8:38Right

Larry Smith 8:38... it's, you know, once you're a local. And I did the other route, which is I waited tables and said yes to every opportunity I could get.

Tim Fulton 8:48To write?

Larry Smith 8:49To write.

Tim Fulton 8:49Okay.

Larry Smith 8:50To... I was an intern at a weekly newspaper and, and weekly newspapers were, they had a lot of, they had a lot of energy-

Tim Fulton 8:57Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 8:57... and they were a compelling form of media back then.

Tim Fulton 8:59Right.

Larry Smith 8:59The web overtook that. Weekly newspapers are struggling. They don't quite have the resonance and the mind share. Uh, so I was an intern at a weekly newspaper called the SF Weekly-

Tim Fulton 9:08Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 9:08... which was like, you know, like a little Village Voice, you know?

Tim Fulton 9:10Yep.

Larry Smith 9:10And I read the Village Voice in college and thought it was very cool. And I waited tables, and I wrote pieces for $40 and $50 and no dollars, and I just made friends, and eventually I got some opportunities at national magazines. Uh, well, one, one place I was, um, pretty much volunteering for, 'cause we all did, was called Might Magazine.

Tim Fulton 9:31Okay.

Larry Smith 9:32And the real magazine geeks may know this.

Tim Fulton 9:34It's Might, right?

Larry Smith 9:35In the audience.

Tim Fulton 9:35M-I-G-H-T.

Larry Smith 9:36M-I-G-H-T.

Tim Fulton 9:37Right.

Larry Smith 9:37And Might Magazine was Dave Eggers, who wrote A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius, and Zeitoun, and What Is the What, and all sorts of great things. It was-

Tim Fulton 9:45And now the proprietor of McSweeney's as well.

Larry Smith 9:46I know, exactly.

Tim Fulton 9:47Right.

Larry Smith 9:47McSweeney's and 826 Valencia, which is a, uh, literary, literary, um, like a nonprofit for students.

Tim Fulton 9:53Like a community center, right.

Larry Smith 9:54So it's a community center around writing for, for, uh, kids in the community. Wonderful guy. And I remember when I met Dave Eggers, um, he had illustrated a, an overwrought piece I wrote about turning 20-something-

Tim Fulton 10:05Okay

Larry Smith 10:05... for a weekly newspaper, which, like, it's, you know, you cringe to read your old writing. And Dave was the illustrator. 'Cause l- people don't know this about Dave, but he, he was a cartoonist and illustrator coming up in-

Tim Fulton 10:16Okay

Larry Smith 10:16... in his, his professional life. And, uh, we didn't meet, but it was sort of somehow via the beginning of email. He's like, "Oh, I illustrated your piece and I liked it, and I'm starting this new magazine called Might Magazine. It's gonna be like a 20-something Harper's Magazine to tell people that 20-somethings are doing good things too." And I'm like, "Okay, cool." So I, I got to know him, and I did some stuff for him, and after issue one, the most precious, uh, issue of a magazine ever-

Tim Fulton 10:41Right

Larry Smith 10:41... we were like, "God, what are we doing here? This is so precious." So then he- we started having fun. And then we became more like a 20-something spy magazine with smart articles and-

Tim Fulton 10:49Okay

Larry Smith 10:50... and, uh, the more playful part of Harper's, uh, or, you know, The Village Voice or-

Tim Fulton 10:55Right

Larry Smith 10:55... maybe Esquire in its glory days. So Dave started that. I said yes to Dave. And I always say in your 20s you say yes.

Tim Fulton 11:01Right.

Larry Smith 11:01In your 30s you say maybe, and in your 40s you have to say no a little bit.

Tim Fulton 11:05You start saying no.

Larry Smith 11:05You start saying no. You still say yes as much as you can. So I got, I did some stuff with Might Magazine, and a buddy from college started a, a kind of a young men's magazine, which was, like, combination of Men's Health and Forbes and, say, Outside Magazine.

Tim Fulton 11:21Okay.

Larry Smith 11:21It was work hard, play hard, called POV Magazine, for a guy's point of view. And he started that, and I was doing stuff for him for a couple hundred bucks an issue, and then lo and behold, he got funding, and he's like, "Hey, we got funding." I was like, "Wow, that never happens."

Tim Fulton 11:37Right.

Larry Smith 11:37And he said, "Do you wanna move to the East Coast and be one of my editors?" And, and that was it. I just, uh, had been in San Francisco about six years.

Tim Fulton 11:44Okay.

Larry Smith 11:44I had other jobs along the way, uh, journalism jobs, but this was the break. This was like, wow, magazines.

Tim Fulton 11:50Okay.

Larry Smith 11:51Um, print magazines. Can you imagine that? And-

Tim Fulton 11:53Right. Well, and so when was it that you moved back to the East Coast?

Larry Smith 11:55In 1997.

Tim Fulton 11:57Okay.

Larry Smith 11:57Yeah. And, uh, we opened up in Boston, and the idea was we were gonna open up in Boston and w- uh, the whole staff worked in this converted fraternity house, uh-

Tim Fulton 12:06Okay

Larry Smith 12:06... near, uh, Fenway Park. We could see Fenway Park. And it was a genius idea he had, because most of his staff came from out of town, from New York or, me, San Francisco. And we didn't really know anyone in Boston, so we were like, we were like Real World magazine. We hung out together. We worked hours and hours. We drank together. We were in our, our, in our 20s.

Tim Fulton 12:26It was a little fraternity house.

Larry Smith 12:27It was.

Tim Fulton 12:27Right.

Larry Smith 12:27And we loved it, and I... These are still some of my best friends in the world. And we just worked and, and went out, and we created this. And then he moved us to New York, 'cause that's where you had to be to-

Tim Fulton 12:37To be in publishing

Larry Smith 12:38... be in the sales team in publishing.

Tim Fulton 12:39Right.

Larry Smith 12:39And it lasted a while, and Maxim Magazine, uh, came on and did what we did, but not as smart, but had really pretty women on the cover-

Tim Fulton 12:48Right

Larry Smith 12:49... and pretty much sent us out of business.

Tim Fulton 12:50Okay.

Larry Smith 12:51We had a good run.

Tim Fulton 12:52Okay.

Larry Smith 12:52You know, we had a good, we had a good... Let's see, '97 through 2001.

Tim Fulton 12:57Okay.

Larry Smith 12:57It wasn't bad-

Tim Fulton 12:58Yeah

Larry Smith 12:58... for an independent magazine.

Tim Fulton 13:00Well, and employing people and yeah.

Larry Smith 13:01Employing people and, and all those people. Here's what... Another thing you don't know, uh, when you have your, your first jobs and, and you're, you get laid off or your magazine folds or your startup, uh, goes under.

Tim Fulton 13:12Right.

Larry Smith 13:13What happens then is, and you don't think about this in those days that follow, where you're crying into your beer and you're, "Oh my God," and, you know, and, and I've been there, and it, it's horrible, but that good people get other jobs. And now we spread like spores. This person's at Esquire. This person's at Vanity Fair. This person's on this new website. And like, oh, wow, um, now we're giving each other assignments.

Tim Fulton 13:36We, we all did, we all did okay.

Larry Smith 13:36Right, we did okay, but also we're helping each other. Now my network just amplified.

Tim Fulton 13:40Right.

Larry Smith 13:40And again, you just don't think about that. You're just bummed your thing went under.

Tim Fulton 13:43Well, and you're worried about making rent and-

Larry Smith 13:45You absolutely are.

Tim Fulton 13:46Yeah.

Larry Smith 13:46And so, and then you meet more people. And so there are, you know, failure, uh, happens. Uh, my wife's own six-word memoir, one of her six-word memoirs is, "You learn more from your failures." And, uh, there's a lot to learn from the failures.

Tim Fulton 14:00Absolutely. So basically, that job went under.

Larry Smith 14:03Yeah.

Tim Fulton 14:04What were you doing in the interim between that and Smith Mag?

Larry Smith 14:07Uh-

Tim Fulton 14:07Just freelance?

Larry Smith 14:08No, I went to, I went to be, I continued to be an editor.

Tim Fulton 14:11Okay.

Larry Smith 14:11Uh, I went to ESPN Magazine-

Tim Fulton 14:13Okay

Larry Smith 14:13... which was wonderful. Uh, I love sports and I love sports journalism, and I love people who make it, and there's one real reason. If you can talk sports, you can talk to pretty much anyone.

Tim Fulton 14:23True.

Larry Smith 14:23It's better than the weather. And sportswriters and journalists in, in my experience, are the least pretentious people in the world.

Tim Fulton 14:31Okay.

Larry Smith 14:31And it was also a very, um, and some of the most diverse staffs I've been on, both in terms of gender and, uh, race and ethnicity. Sports is a great equalizer, and I loved ESPN. And then I went to work at Yahoo Internet Life-

Tim Fulton 14:46Okay

Larry Smith 14:46... which, uh, imagine Wired Magazine, but like sort of m- with a little more of an Entertainment Weekly vibe to it-

Tim Fulton 14:53Okay

Larry Smith 14:53... and sort of written more for your mom than that cool tech guy, you know?

Tim Fulton 14:56And it was a print publication as well?

Larry Smith 14:57It was print. It was a licensing deal with Yahoo.

Tim Fulton 15:00Okay.

Larry Smith 15:00And we had a good run for a little while there, but it turns out a ma- a print magazine about the internet is not destined to, uh, survive.

Tim Fulton 15:08Right.

Larry Smith 15:08And so it didn't. But I was, um, always into tech culture.

Tim Fulton 15:13Okay.

Larry Smith 15:13So even at ESPN, I was the guy who's like, "Let's ask athletes for their bookmarks. We'll call it Jock Marks." This was an innovative idea in the year 2000, right?

Tim Fulton 15:22Right.

Larry Smith 15:22And that idea of I'm not that fascinated by the gadgets, but how technology changes our lives, how it amplifies our lives-

Tim Fulton 15:30Well, how it-

Larry Smith 15:30... how we use it

Tim Fulton 15:31... and for you, how it was changing the game.

Larry Smith 15:33It was changing the game, and it was at Yahoo Internet Life where I had the perch to see, oh, now we're in like 2001 now.

Tim Fulton 15:41Okay.

Larry Smith 15:412002, right? I absolutely had the window to see the user-generated content explosion coming. I had the window to see that of course we all wanna tell stories.

Tim Fulton 15:54Right.

Larry Smith 15:54We've been doing this since cavemen grunting. And-

Tim Fulton 15:57Well, and are you seeing that because it's the, you know, the comments on articles and stuff? It's the people who are trying to contribute to the story that you've already written or edited?

Larry Smith 16:04Early, early chat rooms-

Tim Fulton 16:06Okay

Larry Smith 16:06... and seeing it on things like I edited the first national magazine piece on blogs.

Tim Fulton 16:11Okay.

Larry Smith 16:11It was, it's in Wikipedia.

Tim Fulton 16:13There you go.

Larry Smith 16:13Uh, I didn't know it was at the time, but, uh, you know, uh, and the truth is, this is the way a, a lot of good ventures run, which is our youngest people at Yahoo Internet Life, and we were all pretty young-

Tim Fulton 16:24Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 16:24... they were the ones who knew about blogs first.

Tim Fulton 16:26Okay.

Larry Smith 16:27You know, and at ESPN Magazine, the youngest reporters were really on the forefront. Now, we helped them edit and shape, and we had vision, but-

Tim Fulton 16:33Right

Larry Smith 16:34... you, you've gotta listen to people, you know, who are out there in the world.

Tim Fulton 16:36Well, and is it because they frankly have more time in order to do that, and they're not mired by, oh, I've got... The, their rent is less, and so-

Larry Smith 16:44I think they have more time, and they're just, they're, you know, they're just like, "Give it to me." They're checking everything out.

Tim Fulton 16:50Okay.

Larry Smith 16:50You know, maybe that's part of the time thing.

Tim Fulton 16:51They dive deeper.

Larry Smith 16:52They dive deeper, and they're, they're so ADD that they're, they have so many interests, and some of those interests are gonna be real interesting to other people, and that's the editor's job, right? To pluck those out.

Tim Fulton 17:01Right.

Larry Smith 17:01So I saw the blog thing happen. You know, Facebook wasn't around yet. Instagram wasn't. But also you saw, um, the smartphone start to come.

Tim Fulton 17:09Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 17:09And so many false starts, Palm Pilots and things. But I remember my editor in chief, who actually had come from T- TV Guide and Playboy, that's an interesting background. He was... During the great '70s Playboy, when it was this wonderful magazine-

Tim Fulton 17:20Uh-huh

Larry Smith 17:20... and TV Guide when it was really important, you know-

Tim Fulton 17:23Right

Larry Smith 17:23... as a, as a way to make sense of TV. He kept saying, "What's the Holy Grail? What's the Holy Grail?" And, and we knew it was some sort of phone, but again, it wasn't, it wasn't that obvious that it would... W- what would be the thing? And-

Tim Fulton 17:35Right

Larry Smith 17:35... and at least to us, and so what we saw happening, which is now so blatantly obvious, is this. We all wanna tell stories. If you give people simple tools that anyone can use and then a place to share them, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, six-word memoirs, and many others, they will do it.

Tim Fulton 17:52And so then that's the impetus for Smith Mag.

Larry Smith 17:54Exactly.

Tim Fulton 17:55Okay. Just to sort of put out prompts for people and say, "Tell me about this if you have a story about it."

Larry Smith 18:01Exactly. And in- Oh, from 2003 to 2006 I went around to the big media companies, 'cause I had the contacts, and I had a beautiful prototype and I said, "Listen, user-generated content is changing the world and I wanna do kind of a high-end magazine, a print magazine with a daily, a digital version" and I described it like this: the, the print magazine, and maybe it would be monthly, maybe it would be like six times a year, kind of thick paper, kind of a Monocle or a McSweeney's thing.

Tim Fulton 18:30Right

Larry Smith 18:30I wasn't sure, but we did have a prototype that's still, you know, in a basement somewhere.

Tim Fulton 18:34Right.

Larry Smith 18:34It's so nice, though. I can't part with it. The print will have a blog energy and the web will have a professional curation and design, and if you give people a place to share stories and it looks pro-

Tim Fulton 18:49Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 18:49... they'll rise to the occasion.

Tim Fulton 18:50Right.

Larry Smith 18:50And then if it's a carrot of some of these stories will end up in a magazine, that's exciting. Now what happened was it turns out to be books. But I'll tell you one more story. Here's the moment I knew I was not gonna get any funding for this, at least from the traditional places.

Tim Fulton 19:02Okay.

Larry Smith 19:03I'm in Time Inc., big meeting, right? And I'm in with the number two editorial person at Time Inc., you know, a woman who had started many magazines, super smart.

Tim Fulton 19:12And this is someone who is able to make decisions about what moves forward.

Larry Smith 19:15Absolutely. And I said what I just said to you, which is, "You know, it would have a, a blog energy. The print would have a blog energy." And she looked at me and she said, and this is 2003, "What's a blog?" Now, okay, my mom in 2003 should know what a blog is, or didn't-

Tim Fulton 19:31Right

Larry Smith 19:31... but, but she should've.

Tim Fulton 19:33Right.

Larry Smith 19:33And at that moment I thought, "I'm never gonna get this funded, because the rest of the people who can greenlight this, this, this is not where they are."

Tim Fulton 19:40If you have to translate that to them, we're-

Larry Smith 19:43We're so, we're so far apart.

Tim Fulton 19:44Right.

Larry Smith 19:44Yeah. So after a few years of thinking I needed to get the big money to do this, and I'm, that's the way I'm used to working, you know, with d- big magazines and budgets and fancy designers and... Which is a great way to work if you can. Uh, I listened to people like Dave Eggers who started my- magazine on fumes, like a woman named Shoshana Berger who started another great gone magazine called ReadyMade, which is like the DIY-

Tim Fulton 20:06Oh, yeah

Larry Smith 20:07... you know, ReadyMade-

Tim Fulton 20:08Yeah

Larry Smith 20:08... DIY Martha Stewart, and others who said, "Just start." They said, "Larry, you're very familiar with this thing called the web." Turns out you are, and what can happen on there for very little money. And so I did. A friend donated server space-

Tim Fulton 20:22Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 20:22... and we just cobbled together this website with my partner who did all the tech and design, and we launched Smith Magazine on, uh, January 6, 2006.

Tim Fulton 20:32There you go. And so talk about, was Six-Word Memoirs originally just a prompt on Smith Mag and then you, you were like, "Oh, this is gonna be-"

Larry Smith 20:41Exactly. Smith was one part, uh, Six-Word Memoirs was one part of Smith Mag.

Tim Fulton 20:45Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 20:46And for a while I kept the rest of it around, and it's still in an archive-

Tim Fulton 20:50Right

Larry Smith 20:50... but eventually I thought, "Well, Six Words is really working, so go with that, and then use that perch of what Six Words can do and, and, uh, how much people really enjoy the formus- format of Six Words to do the other things I want to do." To do backstories.

Tim Fulton 21:04Okay.

Larry Smith 21:04You, you can do a backstory after your six words if you like on the site. To do events.

Tim Fulton 21:08So let's talk more about the backstory. You've crafted six words, whether that be something that's autobiographical, whether that be something that's simply compelling, or whether it be something about your city or the environment that you're in.

Larry Smith 21:20Or even something very much in the moment. Uh, and we did a book, Six-Word Memoirs by Teens, and teens are very much in the moment, and one of the six-word memoirs I put in there and I often share is, "I seriously love bean burritos." That's just his life story, you know? And it's not the whole story.

Tim Fulton 21:35Right.

Larry Smith 21:35It's not Mario Batali's, "Brought it to a boil often," you know, the celebrity chef, and brought it to a boil often is a great summation of Mario Batali's life.

Tim Fulton 21:43Right.

Larry Smith 21:43It's a different little slice of the life.

Tim Fulton 21:46Right. And so what, how do you do the backstories then? Is that simply through events? Is it-

Larry Smith 21:52Well, what happened-

Tim Fulton 21:52... people interpreting-

Larry Smith 21:53What happened was-

Tim Fulton 21:53... what somebody wrote?

Larry Smith 21:54What happened was when we first launched Six-Word Memoirs, when we first launched Six-Word Memoirs, by the way, it was just a one-month contest. I just thought it'd be another thing on the side-

Tim Fulton 22:01Right

Larry Smith 22:01... for a little run. I had met these guys starting this goofy new thing called Twitter at a conference, uh, a few months before, and Twitter didn't even have all the E's in it back then. It was like Flickr and that whole thing without the E's.

Tim Fulton 22:12Right.

Larry Smith 22:13And, uh, we were talking a little bit about storytelling in short form, and we just chatted and I got, I got, like, Jack Dorsey's card. And he said, "Well, you ever think of something to do together, you know, give a call." So I did. Like, you could call Twitter in 2006 and Jack would be like, "Hi, I'm one of three people in the office."

Tim Fulton 22:28Right.

Larry Smith 22:29And we launched Six Words together.

Tim Fulton 22:31Okay.

Larry Smith 22:31And a- yeah, and the thing was we were giving away an iPod, which was a good present in, uh, 2006.

Tim Fulton 22:37Right.

Larry Smith 22:37And I went and totally bought it myself. There was no, like, sponsorship. And anyone could enter, uh-

Tim Fulton 22:43And so for, for Twitter it was sort of a, "Hey, we can use this on our platform-

Larry Smith 22:47Yeah

Tim Fulton 22:47... because it is only..." You know, at the time Twitter was focused a lot on text messaging.

Larry Smith 22:52Yeah.

Tim Fulton 22:52Because you could receive tweets from other people via text as, like, an alert.

Larry Smith 22:57And there was no storytelling on Twitter.

Tim Fulton 22:59Okay.

Larry Smith 22:59I mean, I don't say that out of some, like, ego. It's just the truth. And y- you had to follow us on Twitter to win the iPod, but anyone could otherwise submit just to the site. And so-

Tim Fulton 23:08So there you're building up your user base.

Larry Smith 23:10Completely. And it's so funny, I have this awesome screen grab of a newsletter Twitter sent out in January 2007-

Tim Fulton 23:17Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 23:17... and it, it's just so funny in hindsight. "We are so delighted to announce our first ever corporate partnership with Smith Mag," which is now, and I kid you not, it was @SmithMag, not @SixWords, which is now the most popular handle on Twitter, or, or has the most followers. I had, like, 2,000 followers. So for a little moment, Tim-

Tim Fulton 23:37Right

Larry Smith 23:37... I was Shaquille O'Neal- ... or, you know, Britney Spears with, you know, my 2,000 followers. I was number one. I've got a newsletter to prove it. I spoke at Twitter a few years ago and I showed them that. And you know, and it's sort of like on-

Tim Fulton 23:48And everyone laughed

Larry Smith 23:48... like on the one hand, like, amazing. On the other hand, like, huh, maybe I should have built this up a little more. But, uh, we did it with them. The early adopters spread the word. And, you know, if that had been it, even despite Twitter's growth, I wouldn't be talking to you 10 years later. It would've been a coastal thing, a hot or not thing, a flash in the pan.

Tim Fulton 24:05Right.

Larry Smith 24:05But I started getting some attention, uh, from the Columbus Post-Dispatch, which was one of the first, uh, city newspapers to write about, uh, Six-Word Memoirs. I still have that piece. And other places that weren't just coasts and DC and LA. And, uh, and now we had submissions from all across the country, and we really had a sustainable storytelling idea. Not just, uh, people who really wanna be writers or are in tech, which is how it started, and that's great. And that's why I love it, because I was trying to create a populous storytelling platform with Smith Magazine. And with the six-word form and all the things it's, it can do and continues to do, I really- Have that, a popular storytelling platform. And Six Word became, um, more than just a, a literary device and a way to tell a short story, but a tool to do so many other things.

Tim Fulton 24:53Okay, so talk to me about, I just wanna get back to the backstory.

Larry Smith 24:57Yeah.

Tim Fulton 24:57And so what do those backstories look like? Is it crafted by you? Is it someone who wrote a six-word memoir telling why they did this? Or is it something that simply lives in the consumer's mind of what could this mean?

Larry Smith 25:10I think all of the above.

Tim Fulton 25:12Okay.

Larry Smith 25:12So on the site we noticed before we had a, an option to write a backstory, now you can put a photo or, and a backstory and/or a backstory, and, uh, the writer of a memoir would sometimes leave the first comment and tell the backstory.

Tim Fulton 25:23Okay.

Larry Smith 25:24We're like, oh, well... And you, you know, you have to always listen to your community, especially if you like the direction they're going. I said, "Oh, well, if you wanna do that, guys-

Tim Fulton 25:31Right

Larry Smith 25:31... then we'll create a backstory button." So you have this little box now. And, you know, maybe 10% of the people write a backstory. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes it's 5-600 words.

Tim Fulton 25:39And so literally it's something that the six-word memoir can live on its own-

Larry Smith 25:43Yeah

Tim Fulton 25:43... or you can provide context for it.

Larry Smith 25:45Exactly. And then every week we do the backstories of the week on the site, and we tw- you know, we tweet some out and we put some on Facebook. So that's one way. The backstory, as you said, can live in the reader's mind, and that's really fun.

Tim Fulton 25:55Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 25:56And-

Tim Fulton 25:56Is it ever something where that generates content as well, where someone is interpreting a story?

Larry Smith 26:02In the comments, yeah.

Tim Fulton 26:03Okay.

Larry Smith 26:03They do that, and they say, you know, they, and they tell their own version of that story and, absolutely. And then one of the most meaningful and fun, uh, parts of my work is the backstory shows.

Tim Fulton 26:14Okay.

Larry Smith 26:15So at these events, which we do at places such as the Black Box at the Wexner, the upcoming one on March 1st at Shadowbox Live-

Tim Fulton 26:23Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 26:24... I've done them in alleys during literary festivals, and I've done them on houseboats, upper deck.

Tim Fulton 26:29Okay.

Larry Smith 26:30Um, we have a number of storytellers, usually between six and eight. They start with a six-word memoir on a theme, love, religion, creative life, Columbus, and then they reveal the backstory in usually six to 10 minutes.

Tim Fulton 26:44Got it.

Larry Smith 26:44And, uh, they don't use notes. It's sort of like The Moth-

Tim Fulton 26:47Right

Larry Smith 26:48... which many of your listeners have heard on, on NPR and elsewhere. They tell the backstory, and usually I coach them.

Tim Fulton 26:55Okay.

Larry Smith 26:55So you've got a TEDx or TED level professionalism, is the idea.

Tim Fulton 27:00Okay.

Larry Smith 27:00And it usually works. And they, these storytellers work very hard, and I try to do a mix in terms of the performers, the storytellers of maybe a couple people you know, you know, in the community or out in the world-

Tim Fulton 27:11Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 27:12... uh, a little bit known, someone who's never been on a stage before, who is probably frightened.

Tim Fulton 27:17Right.

Larry Smith 27:17And usually the person who gets through that, that evening or afternoon and says, "I am so glad I did this."

Tim Fulton 27:24Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 27:24Slash, "I'm so glad you just forced you just kept bugging me till I said yes."

Tim Fulton 27:28Right.

Larry Smith 27:29And then people who are just the kind of people you, you know, your friends you see in bars, and you're just, God, I, I love hearing Tim's stories. Those guys, you know?

Tim Fulton 27:37Right.

Larry Smith 27:37Those guys, those women, those kids. And maybe they've never actually told a story on a stage. Maybe they have. So it's a mix.

Tim Fulton 27:44Yeah.

Larry Smith 27:44And I love that mix.

Tim Fulton 27:45Again, you can check out the next Six Words event March 1st at Shadowbox Live.

Larry Smith 27:49It's a very special story show. It's, it's a, a one, uh, it's, it's a story show unlike ever I've done befo- I've never done before.

Tim Fulton 27:56Okay. That's the theme, basically?

Larry Smith 27:58Well, the theme is student mentor.

Tim Fulton 27:59Okay.

Larry Smith 28:00So on this evening we will have eight students-

Tim Fulton 28:04Okay

Larry Smith 28:04... from Columbus, or the vicinity, coached by eight people in the community.

Tim Fulton 28:08Okay.

Larry Smith 28:09So there'll be about four spoken word stories, classic storytelling. There'll be a few songs coached by Ben Shineberry.

Tim Fulton 28:16Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 28:16He'll, he'll coach one from the Dick and Jane project. Joseph Barker, who runs Musicology, which is, uh, they teach, uh, music lessons to kids.

Tim Fulton 28:23Right.

Larry Smith 28:24Uh, he'll be, he'll be coaching a couple kids. And then there'll be a show poster. The Marshall Short, so a wonderful designer. He's working with, um, a, a young man to make the poster.

Tim Fulton 28:35Oh, okay.

Larry Smith 28:35Peter Mascara, my videographer, is working with a young videographer. So every element of the show from the, what's happening on the stage, what's happening in the background, will be mentors and students working together.

Tim Fulton 28:46That's great. Was that inspired by something?

Larry Smith 28:48It was, it was inspired, really, um, I've been thinking about... I always like to have-

Tim Fulton 28:52'Cause the other events have been general in that it's all the same format of show.

Larry Smith 28:57Yeah.

Tim Fulton 28:57And it's been things like loss or dedication or conviction or-

Larry Smith 29:03Yeah.

Tim Fulton 29:03Yeah.

Larry Smith 29:04Well, it was inspired by occasionally we'll have a student or a teen as one of the seven or eight storytellers just because that's the way it worked out.

Tim Fulton 29:11Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 29:12And they've always been really meaningful, and the applause in the audience is for a few reasons. One, the story was good, but two, like, they know it's hard.

Tim Fulton 29:21Right.

Larry Smith 29:21Especially if, you know, often if you're younger and not used to public speaking. And then I did a show last May, uh, the theme was Columbus, my first real live event in Columbus, and we had two storytellers who were in that kind of student mentor way. One wasn't a student, but Shannon Wilson, 15 months before that show, was incarcerated.

Tim Fulton 29:44Okay.

Larry Smith 29:44And she got out of prison and went to work at Hot Chicken Takeover with some steps and help to get there. And, you know, Joe Deloss was so important to her. And I met Shannon, and, um, she told her story of, you know, basically that story of, "15 months ago, I was incarcerated, and now I've had my fifth promotion, Hot Chicken Takeover." And I said, "Joe, you know what? Would you introduce her rather than me? Like, wouldn't that be nice?"

Tim Fulton 30:09Okay.

Larry Smith 30:09Plus, it's always good to have Joe Deloss on a stage, you know?

Tim Fulton 30:12Right.

Larry Smith 30:12So handsome and smart, you know?

Tim Fulton 30:14He'll, he's a draw.

Larry Smith 30:15He is a draw. And so Joe said, "Sure, this'll be great. It's the easiest speaking gig I've ever had. I just talk for a minute about someone who I admire so much."

Tim Fulton 30:22Right.

Larry Smith 30:22And so he did that, and Shannon was just so wonderful. And then later in the show, a young woman named Chloe White, who I think had just turned 16, from the ACPA School, the Arts College Preparatory Academy-

Tim Fulton 30:33Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 30:33... where, where Ben Shineberry's also development director. Chloe- ... sung an original song called I'm Best Friends With My City. And I didn't coach her 'cause I don't know how to coach a guitar.

Tim Fulton 30:44A singer, right.

Larry Smith 30:45But I t- you know, I helped her get ready and sort of mentally for that kinda thing, but she had a lot of mentors in her life. And Chloe was so real and so raw, and I think she just ended her song just in tears, and the audience is in tears. And the roar from the crowd that went up when she finished, the standing ovation, I thought, not at that moment, but later, "I want seven of these."

Tim Fulton 31:06Got it.

Larry Smith 31:06"I want seven students. I want seven Shannon Wilsons who have had help from someone in their lives." And mentors are so important. That simple idea we hear over, over, over again, but when you see it in action, one person can change your life. I thought, "Let's do that. Let's tell the, the bigger story of mentorship, and let's just see seven or eight, um, pairs of people working together right in action."

Tim Fulton 31:28That's great. Walk us through 6ix in the City.

Larry Smith 31:31I got to Columbus on a very cold day in January 2015.

Tim Fulton 31:35Okay.

Larry Smith 31:36And I knew two people a little bit.

Tim Fulton 31:38You were just visiting at that point?

Larry Smith 31:40No, we had moved.

Tim Fulton 31:40Okay.

Larry Smith 31:41We had moved here. Um, don't move to Col-

Tim Fulton 31:43And we'll, and we'll get back into why

Larry Smith 31:44... don't move to Columbus in January. That's my six words. What were we thinking? Three degrees, was that re- you know, remember the brutal winter two years ago?

Tim Fulton 31:51Yes.

Larry Smith 31:51This is a, this one's a piece of cake. Uh, we moved on a very cold day, and I really didn't know... I knew a couple of people, lovely people, but, you know, two acquaintances. I'm like, "Huh, what's this place all about?" My wife, uh, asked me to move and I was happy to do it. I'd had visited once and I liked it, and why not, you know? Just gotta roll where life takes you.

Tim Fulton 32:11Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 32:12And so, you know, it's kind of a trick. How would you describe something, right? Like, "Tell me about Columbus." "Well, I don't know where to start," or, "I don't know where to end," right? I'm like, "Well, I do this thing called six-word memoirs." See, I'm wearing a T-shirt. It says, "Now I obsessively count the words," or, "So much crying, the baby too," which I wrote when my son was three months old and put that on a T-shirt. So that's what I do, and it's, you know, it's, it's a conversation starter.

Tim Fulton 32:32Right.

Larry Smith 32:32Ice break. "Well, tell me about Columbus in six words." I was just using it as just kind of a riff and, and, um, my, uh, my friend Ken Hughes said, "Bi-coastal arrogance ends here in Columbus." Bi-coastal arrogance ends here, here in Columbus.

Tim Fulton 32:46Hmm.

Larry Smith 32:46And then Lisa Schneider said, "No cows. Really zero f-ing cows," right?

Tim Fulton 32:52Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 32:53And Julia Harrison said, "Small size makes big impact possible." I was like, "Wow, we have just-"

Tim Fulton 33:01Encapsulated

Larry Smith 33:01... encapsulated many ideas of Columbus.

Tim Fulton 33:04Right.

Larry Smith 33:04And I had on one of those, you know, lists of things I wanna do that you keep moving from notebook to notebook, or Evernote to Evernote.

Tim Fulton 33:11Yep.

Larry Smith 33:12Uh, an idea called 6ix in the City. What if I took everything I've learned about how six words works, uh, in schools, digitally, in photographs, in backstories, in, in houses of faith, in corporations, and moved it in festivals, uh, street festivals. Six words is great at a street festival. What if we moved it through a city in an organized way to tell the story of the city, not from the top down, from the mayor's office.

Tim Fulton 33:36Right.

Larry Smith 33:36And that's fine, or, you know, the, the people who, you know, who, who are best known, but from the bottom up, and we tell the story of a city together. And we get those other people who are the known people in the city. We want their story too.

Tim Fulton 33:49Right.

Larry Smith 33:49And-

Tim Fulton 33:49But it goes back to your event. You want a mix. It is the total citizenry contributing to it.

Larry Smith 33:54Exactly. The mayor and, you know, a girl at South High who said in front of 100 peers, "Yes, I'm pregnant, but I'm graduating." And she got applause 'cause she owned her story. And I'd always wanted to start this in some city, and Columbus just organically became... I mean, it's so obvious now, right? The community here.

Tim Fulton 34:12Right.

Larry Smith 34:12The Columbus says yes vibe. The cooperation and, "Oh, you gotta meet this person and that person." I mean, I didn't know, you know? I mean, I knew about Midwestern charm and kindness.

Tim Fulton 34:24Right.

Larry Smith 34:24And by the way, Josh Radner, the Prince of Bexley, says in six words- ... "Midwesterners are kind, no small thing."

Tim Fulton 34:31Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 34:31Um, but I realized that what was going on with the community here, and that's a big word in my work, and a big word in Columbus, and I know your work.

Tim Fulton 34:39Yeah.

Larry Smith 34:39Uh, this was the place to launch 6ix in the City Columbus. So I just sorta started it, and, um, it's been a little over a year now, and it's, it's been wonderful.

Tim Fulton 34:47Have you done it in other cities at this point?

Larry Smith 34:49No, this was the first city.

Tim Fulton 34:49Okay. I'm curious to hear how it goes over in other cities.

Larry Smith 34:53Yeah.

Tim Fulton 34:54Like, I'm sure it'll do well, but I'm interested to hear how much... We like to say that we are, you know, a city that says yes, we are smart, we are open, we are collaborative. I would like to think that that's unique to us, and I'm interested to hear.

Larry Smith 35:09We'll see, won't we? I mean-

Tim Fulton 35:10Yeah

Larry Smith 35:10... it, it, it's interesting because the only two cities that I know, uh, well that have the pride of Columbus-

Tim Fulton 35:19Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 35:20... that loves itself as much as Columbus, I mean that as a compliment-

Tim Fulton 35:22Yeah

Larry Smith 35:23... are Brooklyn-

Tim Fulton 35:24Uh-huh

Larry Smith 35:24... uh, and New Orleans.

Tim Fulton 35:26Okay.

Larry Smith 35:26And Brooklyn's a little different.

Tim Fulton 35:27So I'm interested, like, go down to Louisville and like-

Larry Smith 35:30Right

Tim Fulton 35:30... see what happens there.

Larry Smith 35:32Yeah.

Tim Fulton 35:33And like, do they just talk about, you know, the bat factory?

Larry Smith 35:37Right. And the bourbon, right? And, and, you know, Louisville would be interesting. I think, you know, I think that, um, Nashville would be an interesting city.

Tim Fulton 35:43Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 35:43Um, but I, but I think it does make sense. And this is, you know, when, when I g- when I got to town and, you know, one of the first people I met was David Ahl, you know, which was lucky-

Tim Fulton 35:51Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 35:51... from CivicHacks, and he said, "Well, you know, dude, it's Test City USA." And I'm like, "I actually didn't know that." And so it is.

Tim Fulton 35:56Right.

Larry Smith 35:56And people test things here. And testing 6ix in the City here, almost a prototype, it really was a, a, a stroke of luck that I, I landed here because I really, I'm so interested in community and I love cities. You know, I learned a lot about what makes it work and, and fortunately because, uh, Columbus is, was so open to this and into it, um, I think it worked very well. And so the next city hopefully should be easier, though that city may be harder because Columbus-

Tim Fulton 36:20Right

Larry Smith 36:20... is special in that way. But I've learned a lot, um, on, on, uh, my time doing 6ix in the City Columbus.

Tim Fulton 36:25Talk about how you guys made the decision to move here. 'Cause you were living in Brooklyn.

Larry Smith 36:29Yeah, no, the usual way.

Tim Fulton 36:31Okay.

Larry Smith 36:31Um, my wife wanted to teach writing in a prison. So, so, uh-

Tim Fulton 36:36Oh.

Larry Smith 36:36Yeah

Tim Fulton 36:36... that old trope.

Larry Smith 36:37So, uh, my wife is Piper Kerman, and she wrote the memoir Orange is the New Black-

Tim Fulton 36:42Right

Larry Smith 36:42... which became the TV show. And she's very, uh, interested in helping other people tell their story, as am I-

Tim Fulton 36:48As you are, right

Larry Smith 36:49... but in different ways. And she's very interested in criminal justice and criminal justice reform.

Tim Fulton 36:53Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 36:53And one of the ways you change hearts and minds is hearing people's stories, right? And as she was thinking about what she wanted to do next with her own work, she was-

Tim Fulton 37:03'Cause you guys had a four-year-old at, at that point.

Larry Smith 37:06Yeah.

Tim Fulton 37:06So it's sort of like, okay, now's an easy time to move.

Larry Smith 37:09Right, exactly.

Tim Fulton 37:09You're not uprooting a, a four-year-old.

Larry Smith 37:12Yeah. So a few years before we moved here, maybe a year, she was invited to speak at a TEDx in the Marion Correctional-

Tim Fulton 37:21Okay

Larry Smith 37:21... Institution. She was like, "Really? A TEDx in a prison?" She'd never heard of this.

Tim Fulton 37:24Right.

Larry Smith 37:24And nobody had because they were the first ones to do it.

Tim Fulton 37:27Right.

Larry Smith 37:27And now, uh, TEDx's in prisons is, is happening many places-

Tim Fulton 37:31Mm-hmm

Larry Smith 37:31... but that, that started at Marion. And the prisoners ran the TEDx. They did all the AV and the coaching, and the TEDx was a combination of prisoners and guards, and then from the inside, and then outsiders, people come in and teach yoga, and poetry, and writing, and this kinda thing, and people who- Weren't associated with Marion, like Piper, but who were in the world of, of, of the prison world and prison-

Tim Fulton 37:53Right

Larry Smith 37:53... reform. So she's like, "Okay." So she goes, she goes to-

Tim Fulton 37:56'Cause in addition to her memoir, she's done advocacy work-

Larry Smith 37:58Yeah

Tim Fulton 37:58... for that. Right.

Larry Smith 37:59Yeah, she's done a ton. Um, it's really what her life is about now. Um, it wasn't the plan. She didn't plan on, A, committing a crime, and B, going to prison, and C, writing a book, but all those things happened. And so she made the best out of a, of some poor decisions when she was younger.

Tim Fulton 38:14Yeah.

Larry Smith 38:14And so she comes back from the TEDx, and she's like, "This very interesting place over there at Marion Correctional. And actually they're doing a play in a couple months. They invited me back for the play." So she goes back to the play. And she's like, you know, written and directed by a prisoner and, you know, acted out by the, by the... An original play.

Tim Fulton 38:31Okay.

Larry Smith 38:32Then she said, "You know what? I think I wanna spend some time there. Maybe do a book about that prison, maybe teach in the prison." I said, "Okay." And she said, "Well, how would you feel about moving to Ohio? But we would move to Columbus, 'cause that's, you know-"

Tim Fulton 38:46The larger metropolitan area

Larry Smith 38:47... a bigger city and we need that." You know, I was... I thought, "Why not?" You know? I'd, we had been in Brooklyn for 14 years. Change is good. And I don't know, I think, think that conversation was a shorter conversation than sometimes when we just takes longer to pick where to go to dinner, you know?

Tim Fulton 39:01Right.

Larry Smith 39:01And I just, the moment was, I was open to it. I, I was-

Tim Fulton 39:03You were like, "We're-"

Larry Smith 39:03I was being smart and open. Why not?

Tim Fulton 39:05"... we're able to do that."

Larry Smith 39:06Yeah.

Tim Fulton 39:06"Why not just do it?"

Larry Smith 39:07Yeah. So that's how we got here. And I just dove into the community. I'm not good at just sitting still, you know?

Tim Fulton 39:13Right.

Larry Smith 39:13I got to know people. I'm social. I love to share my work. I love to see how other people, uh, change my work, and I love collaboration, and that's what I've been doing for two years.

Tim Fulton 39:23Can you talk about sort of the business aspect of Six-Word Memoirs? There's some revenue generation from the events, I imagine.

Larry Smith 39:29Let's, let's hope so.

Tim Fulton 39:32Do you do, like, T-shirt sales?

Larry Smith 39:34We have T-shirts.

Tim Fulton 39:35Okay.

Larry Smith 39:35Uh, but the revenue largely comes from... Almost anyone who does live events, unless they really do it as a bigger company, knows it's a terrible way to make money. If you ever really like-

Tim Fulton 39:42Yes, it is

Larry Smith 39:43... like cruise through the time, you know, Tim.

Tim Fulton 39:45Yeah.

Larry Smith 39:45Like, you d- you don't. You don't, you don't add your time 'cause then you just get sad. But, uh, I love the live events. We don't lose money. We, uh, make books of six-word memoirs.

Tim Fulton 39:53Okay.

Larry Smith 39:53Uh, I've done eight collections of six-word memoirs, and the ninth book, which I'm cooking now, it's an intense, uh, due date, it's coming soon, is Six Words on Immigration, Identity, and Coming to America.

Tim Fulton 40:04Uh-huh.

Larry Smith 40:05It's a book that-

Tim Fulton 40:05And you do a lot of photography with that one too, right?

Larry Smith 40:07We, we're gonna be doing more photography with this book than any other book, for sure.

Tim Fulton 40:10Okay.

Larry Smith 40:11And, uh, this was an idea that I had, uh, before the, the current election of, of Donald Trump. And after he was elected, the idea was suddenly so much more timely and important because of his views on immigration. And that'll be out in September.

Tim Fulton 40:24Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 40:25That's a collaboration with the TV show Fresh Off the Boat, which is my first ever TV collaboration, which is, which is a kick. And, and they're great. It's a, it's, um, a show about a, a family who, uh, came... Uh, a Chinese family who immigrated, and the, the parents own a restaurant, and the kids are all young and hip-hoppy, so there's a whole like, you know, tale of two cultures and-

Tim Fulton 40:44This is a reality show? Narrative show?

Larry Smith 40:46It's, it's a narrative show. It's based on a memoir-

Tim Fulton 40:48Okay

Larry Smith 40:48... by Eddie Huang, uh, called Fresh Off the Boat.

Tim Fulton 40:50Okay.

Larry Smith 40:50But it's, you know, but it's a, it's a narrative show and it's, it's, it's, um... When I'm in schools, and I was just in a bunch of schools the last, uh, few weeks with high school kids, and I say, "Hey, we're doing a new book on immigration. It's a collaboration with Fresh Off the Boat," the kids cheer. They love this show.

Tim Fulton 41:05Okay.

Larry Smith 41:05You know? So but the answer on the revenue, so, so that book will be out in September. And so we, we make books. Uh, we do have things like T-shirts.

Tim Fulton 41:13Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 41:13I do, sometimes I'll, someone will wanna use the six-word memoir form, uh, for their business in some-

Tim Fulton 41:19Maybe you'll go out and do a workshop.

Larry Smith 41:20I do, I do, I do workshops.

Tim Fulton 41:22Speaking engagements.

Larry Smith 41:23Cor- s- yeah.

Tim Fulton 41:23Right.

Larry Smith 41:23Corporate workshops, non-profit workshops, speaking workshops. So, so it's, um, it's, it's a s- it's a, a scattered revenue streams, but it works.

Tim Fulton 41:31Right.

Larry Smith 41:31And, um-

Tim Fulton 41:31Well, but the, and there's some hustle to it.

Larry Smith 41:33The hustle, and the hustle is fun.

Tim Fulton 41:34I, I imagine you represent yourself.

Larry Smith 41:35I do.

Tim Fulton 41:36Okay.

Larry Smith 41:36Well, I have a speaking, uh, agent.

Tim Fulton 41:38Right.

Larry Smith 41:38And I have a book agent. So that stuff, the pro stuff, like it's good. They, they know how to do those things.

Tim Fulton 41:43Right.

Larry Smith 41:43They know how to... I actually don't wanna start, like, cold calling people on, on speaking.

Tim Fulton 41:47Right.

Larry Smith 41:47But, you know, once in a while you meet someone in a conference or... Somebody called me, he was on a plane, and he said to somebody, they just got to talking, "Oh, well, my company's doing a conference. Uh, did your company ever have any good speakers?" And I, I had just spoken to that company. It was a design conference, and his thing was a hotel conference. Totally different, but, like, you never know.

Tim Fulton 42:07But it works.

Larry Smith 42:07It, it, exactly.

Tim Fulton 42:08I mean, you can translate it.

Larry Smith 42:09So, so you gotta always show up when you have your gigs, right? 'Cause you never know where that's gonna go. But I like that. And, you know, I might be at something as corporate as a conference of supermarket owners.

Tim Fulton 42:20Okay.

Larry Smith 42:20I kid you not. In the Cayman Islands, by the way, which is like, that's great. And so at a fancy hotel, The Ritz, and like, and I'm like, "Why, why do they want me to speak?" And it was, it was this. This group of supermarkets was told by consultants or somebody, um, "Look, you need to be more like Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. The vibe, the employees like each other, or at least it seems like that."

Tim Fulton 42:42Right.

Larry Smith 42:42"The community vibe, and you, you need to do that. And so you need some team building, and you need some ways to connect to your customers, you know? Not just employee of the month, you know?"

Tim Fulton 42:52Right.

Larry Smith 42:52Sally's, Sally's little bio under there. So I'm like, "Okay." So I go, I'm in this big ballroom in the Cayman Islands, and look, here's the truth. That audience sees me as what stands between them and golfing or going to the beach. I understand.

Tim Fulton 43:08Okay.

Larry Smith 43:09Like, they don't wanna be there, you know? So it's a tough room, and this was one of my earlier speaking gigs.

Tim Fulton 43:14Well, and you're also sort of telling them how to do their job.

Larry Smith 43:17Yeah, but I have a sneaky way to not make that sound, like, condescending.

Tim Fulton 43:20Okay.

Larry Smith 43:20Like I say, "I have this tool and it worked for me, and here's some ideas. Once you understand how this tool works, it really is a tool to spark expression and, and build community. You'll come up with things I never thought of 'cause you're the experts in the supermarket business."

Tim Fulton 43:32Right.

Larry Smith 43:32And that is, by the way, the truth. And same deal if you're to veterinarians. Like, not veterans, which we also work with, but veterinarians, you know-

Tim Fulton 43:38Right

Larry Smith 43:38... cats and dogs and, and ferrets. Um, they know their business. I have a tool. You know? So I'm doing, I'm doing my talk, and it's always interactive, so there'll be a point where we stop and share our own six-word memoir. If it's at a corporate thing, it might be, um, why do I do what I do?

Tim Fulton 43:53Right.

Larry Smith 43:53And here's where the win comes for the person who hired me, right? We're doing why do I do what I do in six words. Why do I, why do I own a supermarket? And, you know, going around the room, and bigger rooms are weirdly harder, 'cause if there's 40 people in a room, everyone contributes.

Tim Fulton 44:07Right.

Larry Smith 44:07If there's 400, people will hide, and you might also only get 40. Usually more like 60 or 100. But, and, and people are like, you know, "Dad's market now is mine," that's nice, and, "Because the butcher makes me smile" or something. It's these kind of things.

Tim Fulton 44:21Right.

Larry Smith 44:21You know, "Loyal customers open my heart." Fine, good, okay. People relate to that. That's nice. But this was the moment when, you know, we had them, which is this one, one of the few women in, in the audience is like, "Hi, I'm Sally. I own, uh, three, um, three supermarkets in Connecticut."

Tim Fulton 44:37Uh-huh.

Larry Smith 44:37"And my six words are 'Why are you screaming? It's detergent.'" And the room erupts. And here's why.

Tim Fulton 44:46Because there's a commonality.

Larry Smith 44:47Right. Nobody knows what your weird life is as a supermarket owner than the other people.

Tim Fulton 44:52Right.

Larry Smith 44:52And some lunatic in aisle nine is flipping out about detergent.

Tim Fulton 44:55Right.

Larry Smith 44:55And that's it. And so it's like, you know what? We're all in this together. And you could be with hospice workers, which I've been, or veterans, or veterinarians, or, uh, I did a conference of, of therapists who specialize in using play as therapy.

Tim Fulton 45:08Mm-hmm.

Larry Smith 45:08And they, nobody gets you like the other people in the room.

Tim Fulton 45:11Right.

Larry Smith 45:11And all I did was give them a tool and lead them to that point, and then they can go golfing.

Tim Fulton 45:16Well, and I think that that shows the, the value of-

Larry Smith 45:19That's the value

Tim Fulton 45:20... of what you, what you do.

Larry Smith 45:21And that's, that's a word that at some point I realized, I don't know when I realized that, but I thought, "We don't just have a fun literary idea that's fun for the web and to make books. We actually have a valuable tool." And I love teaching that tool, and I love seeing that tool in action.

Tim Fulton 45:35Great. Larry, thank you so much for your time.

Larry Smith 45:37Tim, it's been a pleasure.

Tim Fulton 45:47Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite storyteller. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.