Singer-Songwriter T.Wong

Tim Fulton 0:09Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, on the occasion of his upcoming album, I sat down with singer-songwriter T Wong. Over the course of his very short musical career, T Wong has made it his mission to see what he can accomplish with his work. We discussed being respectful of your art, his process, taking advantage of the world around you, the disparity of support for different art scenes in Columbus, and treating your art like work and investing in yourself. You'll also hear a couple of tracks from his previous work and a new track off his upcoming album, The Upside Down. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored this week by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenges, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview. I'm sitting down here with T Wong, local musician. T?

T Wong 1:54That's, that's what people call me, actually.

Tim Fulton 1:55How are you?

T Wong 1:56Good. How are you?

Tim Fulton 1:57Doing well. Doing well. We've been having some pre-conversation. You have been doing music in Columbus, Ohio for three years.

T Wong 2:03Yeah.

Tim Fulton 2:04How did you get going?

T Wong 2:05So I began actually right after, uh, law school, after the bar, to be quite clear.

Tim Fulton 2:10Okay.

T Wong 2:10Um, after the bar, I started at a law firm here in town, and I just figured I didn't want to, um, kinda waste the energy. In, in high school, I used to be in a lot of musicals and things like that, and then I had some classical training for a period of time, and had gotten some scholarships for music performance.

Tim Fulton 2:27Okay.

T Wong 2:27But I never took it up. Um, I took the academic to my other undergraduate institution, so just kinda got that bug.

Tim Fulton 2:34Okay.

T Wong 2:34Um, and so I met up with a conservatory here in town, Dr. Roger Parrish, and I just asked him, would he be willing to just kinda sit with me while I, you know, just kinda dabbled.

Tim Fulton 2:45Okay.

T Wong 2:45Um, and he plays about, yeah, I might exaggerate on accident, but I think between, like, six and 10 instruments.

Tim Fulton 2:49Okay.

T Wong 2:50So we literally sat in his conservatory on a weekly basis for a period of time and just played, just-

Tim Fulton 2:56So do you feel like you treated it like a hobby at first? Or was it a creative outlet for you? What w- what was sort of the motivation?

T Wong 3:01That's a great question. I, I think it was more of a creative outlet.

Tim Fulton 3:04Okay.

T Wong 3:04Um, I don't think I ever approached it as a hobby, 'cause I didn't wanna necessarily be disrespectful to the art.

Tim Fulton 3:09Right.

T Wong 3:10So it was more of a creative and more of a, I don't wanna look back at 40 wishing that I had attempted something.

Tim Fulton 3:17Okay.

T Wong 3:17Um, so it was always more of a, an exploratory that, that, that, whatever that is, left side of your brain or whatever side of the brain that is. Um, and that, that's kinda how I started.

Tim Fulton 3:26Okay. Quick biography. Let's go through.

T Wong 3:29Yeah.

Tim Fulton 3:29You're a graduate of Eastmoor Academy.

T Wong 3:30Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 3:30You're an alumna of the Ohio State University.

T Wong 3:33Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 3:33Degree in accounting?

T Wong 3:35Criminology and political science.

Tim Fulton 3:36So a pre-law. And then you have your juris doctorate from-

T Wong 3:42Mm

Tim Fulton 3:42... Capital University, passed the bar, and then you were working in corporate law, basically.

T Wong 3:49Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 3:49And said, "I need to do something else in addition to this."

T Wong 3:52Yes.

Tim Fulton 3:53Okay. Okay.

T Wong 3:54That was a very good synopsis.

Tim Fulton 3:55With that introduction, I actually wanna go, this is a little early on, but I wanna go ahead and get into our first sampling, because I wanna talk about your work.

T Wong 4:03Okay.

Tim Fulton 4:04Let's take a listen to Play Forever, the track off the album Journey.

T Wong 4:09Ah. Ooh. Ee. Oh. See the Eiffel Tower decline in my rear view mirror. Oh, oh, oh. See the steam from the ocean of Atlantic as I fly on. Oh, oh. Feel myself driving round and round the road to harness of straw. Just want to play on the rainforest floor. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. And I just want to play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Yeah. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. See the pyramids gliding past my front dash as I go on. Touch the ivory pillars of the Taj Mahal as I walk up in the sun. Yeah. Hear the Muslim prayer crying from the old city, old city walls. And I walk by. Fine as the breeze of Republic Square. And I just want to play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Yeah. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Yeah. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. And I just want to play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Yeah. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Yeah. Play forever. Play forever. Play forever. Yeah

Tim Fulton 8:26Sitting back down here with T Wang. That was Play Forever from the album Journey. Can you talk about that song, first of all?

T Wong 8:35Yeah. So, uh, Play Forever is, uh, one of my favorite songs 'cause it has a bit of classical instrumentation in it. Um, it takes more of a classical approach, upright bass, things like that. And so, uh, Play Forever conceptually is about kinda living this life where you are just playing forever, as, almost as a child.

Tim Fulton 8:50Mm-hmm.

T Wong 8:51Um, one of my big things, uh, even in undergrad was studying... I was big in comparative studies, so a lot of my coursework was in comparative studies, so cultures and religions.

Tim Fulton 8:58Okay.

T Wong 8:59And so I love to travel to other countries and, um, just kinda be in the culture. And so if you listen to the song, it'll actually give dynamics of places I've been and places that I want to travel.

Tim Fulton 9:09Okay.

T Wong 9:09Um, and so it's kind of referencing each of those all the way through from the Eiffel Tower to Muslim prayer. And when I traveled to Israel, one of my most enlightening and moving moments was when, um, the Muslim prayer was, was played-

Tim Fulton 9:22Mm-hmm

T Wong 9:22... at certain times of the day. And because it pretty much resonated throughout the entire, uh, area-

Tim Fulton 9:28Mm-hmm

T Wong 9:28... like, it was kind of just this awe-inspiring moment. And so, uh, it was reflecting on things like that that got me there. Um, and so I just had the opportunity to perform that song for CTV, um, about two weeks ago.

Tim Fulton 9:39Okay.

T Wong 9:39Um, and it was good to do it again. It was acoustic and, um-

Tim Fulton 9:42Yeah

T Wong 9:42... calm. But, uh, it's just, it was just a wonderful piece, and I still play it.

Tim Fulton 9:46And I wanna get into the composition of your songs in a little bit.

T Wong 9:48Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 9:48But tell me about how you write your songs.

T Wong 9:50So that's interesting. So my general process is, uh, just me.

Tim Fulton 9:55Okay.

T Wong 9:56Um, as a singer-songwriter. Um, and so I come up with these melodies, or I hear these melodies, um, generally when I'm driving. Um-

Tim Fulton 10:01Okay

T Wong 10:02... I generally kinda don't have the radio on or, and depending on what time of day it is, and just the, um, the rhythm of the road will give me kind of, uh, some kind of tempo or some kind of beat.

Tim Fulton 10:13Mm-hmm.

T Wong 10:14I'll, I'll just kinda hear it. And so from there, I literally just kinda open my mouth and, and hum, and, and sing, and then, finally, concepts are hit. Um, and so from there I'll generally take it to a group of producers or a producer.

Tim Fulton 10:27Mm-hmm.

T Wong 10:27Um, and we'll talk about kinda what elements I hear and things like that, and we'll start to color it. Um, this, this last project has been a lot different, um, in a great way because this time I-

Tim Fulton 10:37This is your new album you're talking about?

T Wong 10:38Yes.

Tim Fulton 10:38Okay.

T Wong 10:38The new project coming out, The Upside Down, that process was more almost 50/50, where I've teamed up with a producer, and we sat together on a weekly basis, um, for almost nine months. Uh, and we approached each d- each day with elements of our own. Um-

Tim Fulton 10:55Okay

T Wong 10:55... sometimes I would come in with a whole concept. Sometimes he would come in with a whole concept. And a lot of, and, and so-

Tim Fulton 11:00And so when you're going to them, are you, the lyrics are done already?

T Wong 11:03No.

Tim Fulton 11:03Okay.

T Wong 11:04Well, in Journey it was.

Tim Fulton 11:05Okay.

T Wong 11:05In Journey, songs were written, melodies were, were there.

Tim Fulton 11:08Okay.

T Wong 11:08Same with Dream in Emotion for the most part. The Upside Down, no. Um, I actually went in completely clean, fresh mind, fresh eye, um, and worked right there.

Tim Fulton 11:19Okay.

T Wong 11:19So wrote the songs.

Tim Fulton 11:19How did you like the difference of those processes, like working on your own? Because you are still having a producer sort of finish it for you.

T Wong 11:26Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 11:27And so they're perfecting it, crafting it-

T Wong 11:29Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 11:29... you know, making it radio ready.

T Wong 11:31Yeah.

Tim Fulton 11:31How do you like the difference between those two processes in, in creating?

T Wong 11:36So they've both been very positive because the teams are, are great.

Tim Fulton 11:39Okay.

T Wong 11:39Um-

Tim Fulton 11:40Do you wanna give shout-outs here?

T Wong 11:41Yes. Producer Parker Lewis, uh, for It's an Evergreens for The Upside Down.

Tim Fulton 11:45Okay. Great.

T Wong 11:45Um, and for Journey, uh, Mr. Brandon Chapman, who's now on tour with, um, with Mr. Earl St. Clair out in LA.

Tim Fulton 11:52Okay.

T Wong 11:52Um, so they're opening for a few big acts. And Mr. Cedric Easton, um, who's now in New York opening for a few, um, acts out there and heading some of their arts organizations, and Mr. Jonathan Baker.

Tim Fulton 12:01Okay.

T Wong 12:01Um, so those have, uh, all been producers for me in, in this, in this short stint.

Tim Fulton 12:06Yeah.

T Wong 12:06Um, but- It was great with, um, the latter that I mentioned, um, in the sense that they were always very open to what I was bringing and always opening me up even though I was bringing these full concepts or, um, 50%, 60% concepts. Um, it was just more pressure because I had to come to the table with something, 'cause no one was like, "This is what we're gonna do."

Tim Fulton 12:26Right.

T Wong 12:26Um, it was, "What do you want?"

Tim Fulton 12:28Right.

T Wong 12:28Um, versus with, uh, Parker, um, I call him Parks. But with Parker, it was this kinda joint pressure-

Tim Fulton 12:34Right

T Wong 12:34... where we both kinda had to come with something or it was just, nothing would exist. And so it kinda took that burden off.

Tim Fulton 12:39Well, it's almost better in the earlier way that you were working, it's okay if the well goes dry because it's up to you when you-

T Wong 12:45Yep

Tim Fulton 12:45... bring it to somebody else.

T Wong 12:46Yep.

Tim Fulton 12:47And now it's like you're writing with a partner, there's sort of an expectation on you to do it.

T Wong 12:51Yep.

Tim Fulton 12:51Do you feel as much ownership over this new work as you do the old work, given that you worked with Parker so closely?

T Wong 12:57Yeah. Um, I actually do strangely enough, but I think it's because of Parker's-

Tim Fulton 13:02Okay

T Wong 13:02... vibe. Uh, he's a very much, "This is Tijuana, this is you, this is what it is."

Tim Fulton 13:07Mm-hmm.

T Wong 13:08Um, and it wasn't a dictatorship in the sense of, "Hey, T, this is what I have." It was, "Do you like this?"

Tim Fulton 13:13Mm-hmm.

T Wong 13:13And it was a not really, "Why don't we change these elements?" or "Nope, let's scratch it completely. I'm hearing this versus this." Um, and, but, and we had that open dialogue, so even when I would bring something he would say, "I don't know if that's gonna work." You know, things like that. So I do feel the same sense of ownership, and it's probably 'cause he, uh-

Tim Fulton 13:29'Cause of the way he works

T Wong 13:30... he kept that open. Yeah, he kept that open.

Tim Fulton 13:31Right.

T Wong 13:31He didn't make it about him or any other artists he's writing for.

Tim Fulton 13:34Or even about us.

T Wong 13:35Yeah.

Tim Fulton 13:35He made it about you.

T Wong 13:36Yeah, he did.

Tim Fulton 13:37That's great. Do you play instruments?

T Wong 13:38I do.

Tim Fulton 13:39Okay.

T Wong 13:39Uh, I play the sax, and I play with the guitar, and piano I had a little bit of training.

Tim Fulton 13:46Okay. What's interesting to me about the composition of your work, at least the, the tracks that I've heard, is that they're very... The backing track is almost facilitating your words and your voice. And it is very melodic, but it reminded me actually a lot of spoken word.

T Wong 14:01Hmm.

Tim Fulton 14:01Because it can almost stand on its own, but it's also very repetitive, and it, and it sort of is the background to your voice.

T Wong 14:09Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 14:09That's the primary thing that you hear. Have you heard that before, or?

T Wong 14:12Not ever.

Tim Fulton 14:13Okay.

T Wong 14:14Not ever. That's why I'm just smiling.

Tim Fulton 14:15Maybe I'm wrong.

T Wong 14:16No, I don't think you're wrong. I, I think that that's excellent that you have that interp- I, I love my, my art to be i- interpreted.

Tim Fulton 14:22Okay.

T Wong 14:22So I'm not generally offended unless you just say it sucks, then it's just like- ... "I'm sorry to hear that."

Tim Fulton 14:26Certainly not that.

T Wong 14:27But ...

Tim Fulton 14:28No, it's fantastic. It's also why it's so surprising to me that you've done so much of the instrumentation yourself along with the words. But you're saying that the instrumentation tends to come first, right? Or the, the beat, the rhythm, the tempo.

T Wong 14:40It, it, it does, and it's very interesting because I, unfortunately I'm not walking up to people saying, "Hey. Hey, Sid, I need you to play these drums this way." It's more of a, "I hear this." Da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da. And then it's-

Tim Fulton 14:53And they-

T Wong 14:53... then the guitar. And then, you know, Pr- Brandon, who plays the guitar significantly well-

Tim Fulton 14:57Okay

T Wong 14:57... um, he'll say, "Oh, I hear that more the guitar," or we'll say, "Maybe we'll try it on the piano." So it's a lot of, um, they actually informed me that it was kind of how Michael Jackson wrote his music.

Tim Fulton 15:07Okay.

T Wong 15:07Um, he didn't necessarily play the instruments, but he would give vocally what he anticipated the way he wanted it.

Tim Fulton 15:11I remember watching, like, 20/20 interviews when I was a kid, and he would be like, "This is how I do it." And it's very similar actually to how, at least from the interviews that I've seen, that, that Bruno Mars does it. And he's like-

T Wong 15:22I did not know that

Tim Fulton 15:22... it's sort of like, "This is how we build this."

T Wong 15:25Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 15:25So it's good that you can do that on your own, Michael Jackson-

T Wong 15:29It's weird

Tim Fulton 15:29... slash Bruno Mars. So you are, I hope that I'm not outing you in any way, but you're 30 years old.

T Wong 15:37Yes.

Tim Fulton 15:37You've only been doing this for, like, three years.

T Wong 15:39Yes.

Tim Fulton 15:40You're so young at it, but you're an, I mean, you're an adult man.

T Wong 15:45Maybe.

Tim Fulton 15:46Can you sort of talk about interacting with other musicians and sort of how you believe that your experience differs from theirs?

T Wong 15:53Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 15:53Because a lot of people who are at this game, first of all, they quit by the time you started.

T Wong 15:57Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 15:58And they did it for 10 years and then gave up.

T Wong 16:01Yeah.

Tim Fulton 16:01And at this rate, like you said earlier, you're gonna be 40 before you give up.

T Wong 16:06Yeah. Hopefully.

Tim Fulton 16:07Yeah.

T Wong 16:08Um, that's a very great, uh, great question or, uh, prompt. Um, when it comes to other artists, I, I'm very open with my youthfulness in this industry.

Tim Fulton 16:19Okay.

T Wong 16:19Um, and I think that might give me a leg up over some. I don't approach it as though I know anything.

Tim Fulton 16:24Okay.

T Wong 16:24Um, to me, even in my notebooks, in my journals that I have that I carry with me to sessions, um, I have, like, a glossary page. When people start speaking language that I don't understand, I ask them to define why we say this studio-

Tim Fulton 16:34Basically industry terms and stuff like that.

T Wong 16:36Yeah, everything.

Tim Fulton 16:36Okay.

T Wong 16:37Any and everything. Uh, even musically, there are, you know, certain things that I s- don't recall from, from my theory classes and things like that, so.

Tim Fulton 16:43So now where were you taking music theory?

T Wong 16:45Um, it was actually at high school.

Tim Fulton 16:47Okay.

T Wong 16:47So I was under-

Tim Fulton 16:48That makes more-

T Wong 16:48... I was under, uh, Betty, Betty Hill, who is now in charge of all music oversea- um, Columbus City Schools.

Tim Fulton 16:54Okay, great.

T Wong 16:54Um, and so she was classically trained for a number of years. I think she received her higher ed from Capital.

Tim Fulton 17:00Okay.

T Wong 17:00Um, Capital's campus.

Tim Fulton 17:02Their conservatory.

T Wong 17:02Um, yes.

Tim Fulton 17:03Right.

T Wong 17:03And so, uh, she trained me as a base. And so i- in that, you know, you just kinda learn... And, and playing instruments for so long, I played instruments since I was in elementary school.

Tim Fulton 17:12Okay.

T Wong 17:12So a lot of the terms, you know, they, they come from the instrument side. And then being with her, um, she expected you to carry a certain level of excellence when you performed with her.

Tim Fulton 17:21Right.

T Wong 17:22So, um, and she's also the person who took us around the state to earn those scholarships and thing... Well, out of the state actually to, to earn those scholarships, uh, for vocal performance. So, um-

Tim Fulton 17:30Okay. Is that what got you into Ohio State, or?

T Wong 17:32No, academics.

Tim Fulton 17:33Okay.

T Wong 17:34Academics got me to Ohio State.

Tim Fulton 17:35Okay.

T Wong 17:35So when I approach, um, other artists or when I see other artists, I'm always very intrigued on their journey, um, and, and kinda what they, what they have seen and what they've done. Um, I think another part that, that differentiates me from other artists is that I don't necessarily look at anyone's word as bond.

Tim Fulton 17:52Okay.

T Wong 17:53So, um, people will tell you, you know, "I did this and it didn't work, and I did this and it did work."

Tim Fulton 17:57Right.

T Wong 17:57And I, I don't necessarily take those as that's how it's gonna be for me.

Tim Fulton 18:00Okay. I gotcha.

T Wong 18:00Um, I take it as a way of-

Tim Fulton 18:01I thought you were saying a lawyer thing there.

T Wong 18:03No.

Tim Fulton 18:03Like, I don't believe i- what anybody says.

T Wong 18:05No, no, no, no, no. I definitely believe their process-

Tim Fulton 18:09Right

T Wong 18:09... but I hold it to just their process.

Tim Fulton 18:11Okay.

T Wong 18:11Um, and so I think it gives me a different level of, um, stamina, uh, because I don't base it off of kinda how they succeeded or d- Did not succeed-

Tim Fulton 18:20Okay

T Wong 18:20... even though I could probably think that that's all relative, however you define success. So, um, I think that's one of, kinda, those are a couple of things that kinda differentiate me on a, just, just kind of on a mental level-

Tim Fulton 18:31Right

T Wong 18:31... is kinda keeping those things.

Tim Fulton 18:33So you're playing out, right? Like, I've seen a couple of live performances for you.

T Wong 18:37Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 18:37What aspect of this do you enjoy the most? Is it the recording? Is it the writing? Is, is it playing out and sort of performing your work?

T Wong 18:44Yeah. Um, I haven't figured that out yet.

Tim Fulton 18:46Okay.

T Wong 18:47Uh, because I love-

Tim Fulton 18:47You're so new.

T Wong 18:48I li- yeah. I, because I love the performance.

Tim Fulton 18:51Uh-huh.

T Wong 18:51But I, I get extremely nervous.

Tim Fulton 18:53Okay.

T Wong 18:54Um, e- nervous to the point of, um, almost vomiting.

Tim Fulton 18:57Right.

T Wong 18:58So every time, no matter, uh, how big the crowd. It could be a crowd of 10 or a crowd of, uh, 5, 700.

Tim Fulton 19:04Okay.

T Wong 19:042,000. I don't know. Um, but I love the performance aspect. I just have to get in. Um, and once I'm in, I'm warm, I'm ready.

Tim Fulton 19:12Right.

T Wong 19:12But before that, being in the wing or being behind the stage or wherever the, whatever the case is, I'm just, it's terrible.

Tim Fulton 19:17But it feels good when you're done, right?

T Wong 19:19Oh, it feels great when you're done-

Tim Fulton 19:20Yeah

T Wong 19:20... if you had a good performance.

Tim Fulton 19:21Yeah. Well...

T Wong 19:23Um, but the s- the songwriting, I'm actually loving that more. I would love to have the opportunity to work with, um, more artists who, you know, um, who are either emerging or, or established.

Tim Fulton 19:33Mm-hmm.

T Wong 19:33Um, and kinda sitting in on sessions and helping with the writing and that. So, um, it kinda depends on the day. I used to really hate the recording studio 'cause I don't like to hear myself.

Tim Fulton 19:40Okay.

T Wong 19:41Um, so that made it very, very difficult. My, my, um, vox or V-O-X, generally is how they label my stuff-

Tim Fulton 19:46Yeah

T Wong 19:46... um, they would be really low.

Tim Fulton 19:48Okay.

T Wong 19:49So that I couldn't hear myself. And I'm finally getting better at turning them up so I can actually hear what I'm actually doing and make sure it's translating the way that I'm thinking it's translating.

Tim Fulton 19:56Great.

T Wong 19:56So the, I'm still not, I haven't figured that out yet.

Tim Fulton 19:59That's fair. That's fair. Let's take another quick break and listen to The Beard Song off of the EP Dreaming in Motion.

T Wong 20:35Man. There is no feeling like the one I have now. When my baby put those hands all on me. Wow. That girl got me buzzed. And I can't even understand it and how. She make my body respond to her grace and her style. That girl got me buzzed. I love it when she touch on my beard and my body. And she wrap both her hands all around me. Mm-hmm, baby girl, feel it up. Baby girl, feel it up now. Intrinsically touching. I love it when she touch on my beard and my body. And she wrap both her hands all around me. Mm-hmm, baby girl, feel it up. Baby girl, feel it up now. Intrinsically touching. So the question is how long, mm. I can go without my lady. Man, I don't know. She's food for my soul. So what would I do if you were not there? How would I be if you did not share? What's my persona if you did not care? How would I see if you did not stare? Ooh. That girl got me buzzed. I love it when she touch on my beard and my body. And she wrap both her hands all around me. Mm-hmm, baby girl, feel it up. Baby girl, feel it up now. Intrinsically touching. I love it when she touch on my beard and my body. And she wrap both her hands all around me. Mm-hmm, baby girl, feel it up. Baby girl, feel it up now. I wanna know. Oh. If you feel me like I'm part of you, girl. I wanna see. See. If you feel like you're a part of me. I wanna hold. Hold. Onto your essence like the blessing it be. Could it be. That you're intrinsically a part of me? Ya, ya, ya, ya, ya. I love it when she touch on my beard and my body. And she wrap both her hands all around me. Baby girl, feel it up. Baby girl, feel it up now. Intrinsically touching. I love it when she touch on my beard and my body. And she wrap both her hands all around me. Wa, pa, pa, pa, baby girl, feel it up. Baby girl, feel it up now. Intrinsically touching.

Tim Fulton 24:01Again, that was The Beard Song off of the EP Dreaming in Motion. Sitting down here with T Wong. You're an attorney.

T Wong 24:07Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 24:07You're a full-time attorney.

T Wong 24:08Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 24:09Can you talk about sort of how you established, like, that work creativity balance?

T Wong 24:14Yeah. Um, uh, it lately has been coined as this, um, Bruce Wayne persona.

Tim Fulton 24:19Okay.

T Wong 24:20Uh, kind of that Batman situation. Um, I, I don't approach it- I don't, I don't think I approach it any differently than anyone else does in general life, so.

Tim Fulton 24:28Okay.

T Wong 24:29Um, you go to work, and then, you know, if you have to go to the grocery store, then you just go to the grocery store. If you-

Tim Fulton 24:34Right

T Wong 24:34... if you have children, you know, then you go pick up your kids, or you go to whatever event they may have. Um, or if you have a creative outlet or, or vice versa, um-

Tim Fulton 24:42Or if you play video games-

T Wong 24:44Yeah

Tim Fulton 24:44... or if you-

T Wong 24:44If you're a gamer, yeah

Tim Fulton 24:46... drink during your creative life.

T Wong 24:46So I look at, absolutely.

Tim Fulton 24:48Right.

T Wong 24:48Even though some might be doing that on the job, I'm, I'm not.

Tim Fulton 24:50Okay.

T Wong 24:51But, um, I kinda look at it the same, uh, where I just do what's required at the time. Um, there are times when, for instance, k- when I'm getting ready to release a project or working on a new project where I will carve out windows so that I'm not bleeding between business, legal business and-

Tim Fulton 25:10Right

T Wong 25:10... artistry.

Tim Fulton 25:11Okay.

T Wong 25:11Um, and that's really for my creative sanity, um, because I, I think for most artists, if you're in the midst of something, that can translate in, into your recording, whatever way, vocal or instrumentation.

Tim Fulton 25:21Right.

T Wong 25:22Um, and so I try to keep myself very clear of the legal side of things so that I don't carry that type of energy with me into the studio or into the sessions.

Tim Fulton 25:29Okay.

T Wong 25:30Um, so generally, um, I'm kinda just kinda going with the flow of things. I, I consider myself, and I could be completely wrong, um, to be mostly organic, so kinda just however the wind is going.

Tim Fulton 25:39Okay.

T Wong 25:40Um, but if there's-

Tim Fulton 25:41But you're trying to control that wind a little bit too.

T Wong 25:44I, I, I don't say I control it. I say I try to take advantage of it.

Tim Fulton 25:46Okay.

T Wong 25:46So I, I try to turn my parasail or whatever object to the direction in which the wind is coming so that I can get some lift.

Tim Fulton 25:53Okay.

T Wong 25:53Um, and that, that's kinda how I look at it. Um, but when there are big moments in music or in law, I try to shut down a little bit one of the areas so that they don't collide.

Tim Fulton 26:03Okay.

T Wong 26:04So that I'm giving full attention to clients, or I'm giving full attention to, to the art and to the teams that are working with me so no one feels slighted.

Tim Fulton 26:11And to be clear, you've done two full albums. Once we get two months from now-

T Wong 26:15Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 26:15... you will have done two full albums-

T Wong 26:16Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 26:17... and an EP over the course of three years, right?

T Wong 26:19Yeah.

Tim Fulton 26:19That's pretty productive. I mean, like, that's a lot, especially for somebody who hasn't been doing music in, in any sort of formal way-

T Wong 26:28Yeah

Tim Fulton 26:28... in eight years?

T Wong 26:31Uh, I would say probably about 10.

Tim Fulton 26:33Okay.

T Wong 26:33Yeah, 10 to 11, actually.

Tim Fulton 26:35Yeah. So-

T Wong 26:37From high school til now, yeah

Tim Fulton 26:37... there's your compliment, I guess.

T Wong 26:39Thank you.

Tim Fulton 26:41Talk about some of the other Columbus musicians that either you've worked with or that people should check out.

T Wong 26:48So I'll start with the people to check out, uh, 'cause I, I'm not around a lot, so it's easy-

Tim Fulton 26:52Okay

T Wong 26:53... to kinda know who I actually do get the chance to listen to. Um, Renee Dion is a phenomenal artist. She's been around, uh, for a while. Um, she's done some work in New York, some work in Chicago, things like that. Um, then she came back to Columbus and made it kind of her base.

Tim Fulton 27:06Okay.

T Wong 27:07Um, Forest & Evergreens, I cannot, cannot leave them out obviously.

Tim Fulton 27:11Mm-hmm.

T Wong 27:11Um, I think they just had a huge show a couple, like a week ago.

Tim Fulton 27:14Mm-hmm.

T Wong 27:14But they've been kind of on some small tours here and there, um, doing great work. Um, Jonathan Baker, who's a musician, um, and a producer for some, um, larger artists, uh, and for himself. He's, he's incredible. Um, God, I wish I had known that was coming. I would've wrote down like a list.

Tim Fulton 27:30No, it's all right.

T Wong 27:30Okay, now, now I just feel bad 'cause somebody's gonna be like, "Oh, you forgot this person."

Tim Fulton 27:33Well, yeah.

T Wong 27:33"Why didn't you talk about me?" Right, right, right. Um, those, those three, and they're all different genres.

Tim Fulton 27:39Yeah.

T Wong 27:39Um, so those three right literally off the top of my head. Um, I own each of those projects, all of their projects. Um, Christen, Christen Gray, um, he got picked up, I believe, by Akon.

Tim Fulton 27:51Okay.

T Wong 27:51Um, I, I have his projects. He's, I think he's a great sound, um, great artistry. As far as original artists, those are who I can think of just-

Tim Fulton 27:58Yeah

T Wong 27:58... literally off the top of my head who-

Tim Fulton 28:00Well, and we'll have links to all those people.

T Wong 28:01Oh, Vada, Vada Azim.

Tim Fulton 28:02Okay.

T Wong 28:03Um, he's a hip hop artist. He's been around for a minute, and he just released a new project, Knicks For Twenty or Twenty For Knicks, something.

Tim Fulton 28:09Okay.

T Wong 28:09I don't, I'm about to mess it up. Sorry, Vada.

Tim Fulton 28:11No, that's all right.

T Wong 28:12But, um, great.

Tim Fulton 28:12We will have links to all those people and artists-

T Wong 28:15Awesome

Tim Fulton 28:15... in the show notes as well.

T Wong 28:17Awesome.

Tim Fulton 28:17So talk about, you're, again, a Columbus guy, Eastmoor, OSU, Capital.

T Wong 28:21Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 28:22You're an attorney.

T Wong 28:23Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 28:23Becoming an established musician here, why do you... Well, first of all, what do you like about Columbus?

T Wong 28:28Oh, so-

Tim Fulton 28:28It's your home.

T Wong 28:29Yeah, it is. It is home, but I, I really enjoy the mobility of Columbus.

Tim Fulton 28:33Okay.

T Wong 28:33And so when I say that, I mean the cost of living, um, and the ability to commute in and out of Columbus.

Tim Fulton 28:39Mm-hmm.

T Wong 28:39So though we, we're not at like a major port hub yet, um, at least on the c- on the, on the personal side-

Tim Fulton 28:45Mm-hmm

T Wong 28:46... 'cause we are on the commercial side. Anyhoo, um, that aspect is great, so when I go to New York and I'm in New York or like LA, um, it's great to be in those environments because I do-

Tim Fulton 28:55Are you recording here?

T Wong 28:56I am recording here.

Tim Fulton 28:57Okay.

T Wong 28:57I'm re- I record at, uh, Vaughn's, Vaughn Music Studio.

Tim Fulton 28:59Okay. Yeah, yeah.

T Wong 29:00Um, it's, they're great in the sense of their en- of it's their energy, um, and kind of what they give you when you're just in that environment.

Tim Fulton 29:09Mm-hmm.

T Wong 29:09Um, but when it comes to actually being able to operate in those cities, unless you're at a certain level financially or even industry-wise-

Tim Fulton 29:18Right

T Wong 29:18... it's, it's kinda difficult. Um, in Columbus I don't really have that type of issue. Um, you know, you, you work-

Tim Fulton 29:24Studio time costs this much-

T Wong 29:26Yeah

Tim Fulton 29:26... and it's okay.

T Wong 29:26And this is what it is.

Tim Fulton 29:27Right.

T Wong 29:27It's reasonable. Um, and when it comes to being able to travel to these different locations, it's much easier, um, because you have m- you have a few dollars that you can save and store, and, you know, you're not, you're not paying $20,000 for 500 square feet.

Tim Fulton 29:40Right.

T Wong 29:40You know, all that kind of stuff.

Tim Fulton 29:42Right.

T Wong 29:42So, um, that's one of the main reasons, a couple of the main reasons I stay.

Tim Fulton 29:46Okay.

T Wong 29:46Um, I also am anticipating the artistic boom that is here.

Tim Fulton 29:52Okay.

T Wong 29:53Um, I don't know what that will look like. Um, I think it looks better for certain arts and certain genres. Um, but I-

Tim Fulton 29:59Talk about that

T Wong 30:00... I'm, uh, uh, well, I think when it comes to more urban music genres, I don't think that we've seen necessarily the same support as other genres have.

Tim Fulton 30:09Mm-hmm.

T Wong 30:09I think my support, uh, which I'm grateful for, for GCAC, uh, for Columbus Makes Art campaign, for Lincoln Theater, things like that, I think my support is probably 'cause my- Art is a little more blended.

Tim Fulton 30:20Mm-hmm.

T Wong 30:21Um, it's not so heavy one way or the other. Uh, but other artists who I know who are phenomenal, um, on a lot of different, in a lot of different genres, they have a, a more difficult time kinda getting that back and getting that support, as well as myself.

Tim Fulton 30:32Okay.

T Wong 30:32Um, but I do notice, um, more the rock scene, uh, they seem to get a lot of support. It's, it's pretty easy to get into the bigger festivals and things like that, depending on obviously your, your, your status in that, in your artistry.

Tim Fulton 30:45Let me ch- and I'm not challenging you-

T Wong 30:46No

Tim Fulton 30:46... but I wanna ask a challenging question-

T Wong 30:48Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton 30:48... I guess. Why do you think that is?

T Wong 30:50Uh, again, I think we are a very conservative city.

Tim Fulton 30:54Okay.

T Wong 30:54Um, and so, and conservative even with music. Um, I think certain sounds are just more accepted.

Tim Fulton 30:59Mm-hmm.

T Wong 31:00Pop, rock, uh, things like that, I think, um, that's where probably the money base is.

Tim Fulton 31:05Mm-hmm.

T Wong 31:05I think when it comes to urban sound, R&B, soul, uh, things like that, hip hop, I think there's a negative connotation probably associated with it-

Tim Fulton 31:12Okay

T Wong 31:13... um, just from media. Uh, and so I don't know if there's a presumption that it's going to tilt south or if it's not able to generate the same amount of revenue or the same type of following, and unfortunately I think that's, uh-

Tim Fulton 31:24Well, let me put words in your mouth a little bit. It, it's-

T Wong 31:26Please.

Tim Fulton 31:28We're, we're... This is an audio format, and I would like to introduce an idea. You're a Black man.

T Wong 31:33Yes.

Tim Fulton 31:34Uh, and it is-

T Wong 31:35For those who don't know

Tim Fulton 31:35... perceived as Black music.

T Wong 31:37Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 31:37Right?

T Wong 31:38Absolutely.

Tim Fulton 31:38Um, there was a whole lot of press cov- well, there was some very particular press coverage a couple years ago about why isn't there hip hop at ComFest.

T Wong 31:45Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 31:46It was, like, two years ago.

T Wong 31:47Okay.

Tim Fulton 31:48And in fact, then the following year they, it was in the Columbus Live the following year then, they praised the amount of hip hop that they had brought on. Independence Day, I think had a little bit of trouble at first sort of accepting that, and I don't think it was a, certainly not an issue of racism.

T Wong 32:04Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 32:04And certainly not an issue of, quote-unquote, "We don't want that here."

T Wong 32:08Right.

Tim Fulton 32:08But it's being put together by a bunch of 25-year-old white guys.

T Wong 32:12Right.

Tim Fulton 32:12They don't work with those artists-

T Wong 32:14Right

Tim Fulton 32:14... and they don't know those artists, and that, so they made, at least from the outside looking in, a concerted effort to do outreach to those communities. I know certainly with our partnership with GCAC, they're steering a whole lot of minority art our way.

T Wong 32:26Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 32:27Um, I would invite listeners to go back and listen to, while it is over now, go back and listen to Scott Woods talking about Holler30 and, and what the impetus was for that.

T Wong 32:37Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 32:37Are there other things that Columbus can do better?

T Wong 32:40Oh, from an artistic standpoint I presume.

Tim Fulton 32:43L- let's go at it all. I got time.

T Wong 32:46Um, uh, you know, I'm not one to ever say I have the answer for anything.

Tim Fulton 32:50Okay.

T Wong 32:51Um, but from an artistic standpoint, um, the, I think there are, there are several angles. So there, um, there's, there's kind of the corporate industrial level, and then there's kind of the, uh, I wanna say parishioner kind of supporter level.

Tim Fulton 33:02Okay.

T Wong 33:02So, um, simply on the, on the supporter level it is that. Just be, be actually supportive.

Tim Fulton 33:07Okay.

T Wong 33:07Um, you know, you, you, you're out and around town, people see you and they recognize you for whatever your brand is, whomever you are. You know, they, you know, they, they say they love you or whatever the case is, but your sales are low.

Tim Fulton 33:16Okay.

T Wong 33:17Um, or your, your media interactions are low, and I don't think that people recognize from a brand perspective in order to get on those larger platforms, those little things, album sales, um, m- media content-

Tim Fulton 33:28Mm-hmm

T Wong 33:28... numbers, they all matter. That's what Billboard is looking at. That, you know, that's what all these places are looking at before they invite you onto these different major festivals or, um, into a Grammy showcase or something like that. So they're looking at those things.

Tim Fulton 33:39That doesn't sound like a Columbus problem to me.

T Wong 33:42Um, i- i- it's only a Columbus problem when Columbus claims to support-

Tim Fulton 33:47I see

T Wong 33:47... in that sense.

Tim Fulton 33:48Okay.

T Wong 33:49So it's more of a educational forum, you know?

Tim Fulton 33:52Right.

T Wong 33:52Um, if you like the music, tr- really support the music in that sense-

Tim Fulton 33:55Right

T Wong 33:55... and not a, "Go buy my music," um, but just like the page.

Tim Fulton 33:59Right.

T Wong 33:59You know, you, you may not ever interact, but if everyone who's, who's exposed to the music really enjoys it, if they just take 30 seconds to go to each artist's page that they like-

Tim Fulton 34:07Right

T Wong 34:07... and like it, you could be so much higher 'cause Columbus is a sm- smaller market, and so it's, it's easier to kind of build that momentum and that namesake. And again, they may not interact every day, uh, which that's a whole nother level, but, you know, just the initial step of, "Actually, I do like that artist. Um, I do see that they put out flyers here and there," or whatever the case is.

Tim Fulton 34:25Right.

T Wong 34:25"Let me go ahead and interact in this way." Um, and that's free, you know? It's not-

Tim Fulton 34:29Right

T Wong 34:29... "You know what? Spend $20 on my product." It's, you're on Facebook or you're on Twitter or you're on Instagram. If you see, you know, if you see me fly through, you know, maybe think about following it, you know? But I get it. You know, you don't appreciate everybody's brand, um.

Tim Fulton 34:41I, I love by the way that you keep referring to it as a product, a project, or a brand.

T Wong 34:46Oh.

Tim Fulton 34:46And you never say the word album.

T Wong 34:49Oh, man.

Tim Fulton 34:50It's good. No, I like it. I like it a lot. Any shows that you wanna talk about that are coming up?

T Wong 34:56Um, actually, yes. There is one show that I'm having coming, that I'm feature on, and it, it's The Roos performance, uh, April 21st at 7:00 PM at the Replenish Spa Co-op.

Tim Fulton 35:07Okay.

T Wong 35:07Um-

Tim Fulton 35:08Cool, and there will be a link to at least that Facebook event page in the show notes for this episode. One last thing. It seems to me as though, and I admire this absolutely, you sort of, you're working as an attorney in sort of a, you're successful enough at this point that you, you know, your days are full, as full as you want them to be in terms of being an attorney.

T Wong 35:28Too much.

Tim Fulton 35:30How do you view your music at this point? Is this another career step for you? Are you working aspirationally? As we talked about, you know, people with creative outlets in the past, there are certainly people that go out there, work a nine-to-five job, and then go out and do community theater five nights a week.

T Wong 35:47Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 35:48I don't think those people are working in a way that they're like, "Okay, after this I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna do a series of commercial auditions in New York City."

T Wong 35:57Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 35:57You've sort of talked in that way.

T Wong 35:59Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton 36:00Is that what you're doing?

T Wong 36:01Um, essentially yes.

Tim Fulton 36:03Okay.

T Wong 36:03Uh, for me, I- it might be both a blessing and a curse, but once I kinda set my mind to something-

Tim Fulton 36:08Okay

T Wong 36:08... I really wanna see it reach its maximum potential.

Tim Fulton 36:11Okay.

T Wong 36:11Uh, and so-

Tim Fulton 36:11Can you give examples of that?

T Wong 36:13Uh-

Tim Fulton 36:13I guess I'm just curious.

T Wong 36:14Yeah, absolutely. Um, so you mean just in general life?

Tim Fulton 36:17Yeah.

T Wong 36:18Uh, yeah, so, uh, law.

Tim Fulton 36:20Okay.

T Wong 36:20I didn't anticipate doing law at all. Um, I graduate- I was on my last semester of college and realized-

Tim Fulton 36:26Mm-hmm

T Wong 36:26... or last quarter at the time, of college, and realized that I had nothing else to do.

Tim Fulton 36:30Okay.

T Wong 36:31And so I took someone's-

Tim Fulton 36:31You didn't have a plan.

T Wong 36:32Nope, nope, nope, no. I'm not a planner. I'm t- actually I'm bad at that.

Tim Fulton 36:36Okay.

T Wong 36:36Um, I'm a executor.

Tim Fulton 36:37Got it.

T Wong 36:38So once it's there, then it'll get done, but I'm not behind scenes thinking of all these grandiose ideas and plans. Um, so with law school, it was more of a, um, hey, I have a quarter or two left, and I'm about to be working at wherever for the rest of my life.

Tim Fulton 36:52Friends are talking about grad school.

T Wong 36:53Yeah, everything.

Tim Fulton 36:54Friends are talking about going to get a job.

T Wong 36:56So, um, took that, and instead of just, um, going to law school, um, I maximized in the sense of I became, like, a lieutenant governor for the American Bar Association, so I was traveling to those things.

Tim Fulton 37:07Okay.

T Wong 37:08Um, I was the head of different o- associations at the law school. Um, I was interning for different entities throughout the, throughout the city and kind of the federal government. Um, so kinda taking it all the way there so I could see what the, what the top could look like, essentially-

Tim Fulton 37:22Okay

T Wong 37:22... um, of my own career.

Tim Fulton 37:24Now talk about music.

T Wong 37:25So music, uh, started it as, like we said, kind of that expression, trying to make sure that I don't regret anything-

Tim Fulton 37:30Right

T Wong 37:30... uh, in the long run. And it went from, um, being in studio, uh, with, in the conservatory studio to working with artists and producers who have worked with Grammy Award-winning artists and, and producers.

Tim Fulton 37:43Okay.

T Wong 37:43Um, and instead of just stopping there and saying that, "You know, it's been a great ride. Thank you for the experience"-

Tim Fulton 37:48Right

T Wong 37:49... allowing the momentum to take its own. Um, and so now I feel like I'm playing catch-up to my own brand. Um, didn't anticipate people really enjoying it-

Tim Fulton 37:56Uh-huh

T Wong 37:57... or wanting to see more in the positive or negative way, but once I noticed it, it was more of a here's how we do it. And so when I say I, I, I do it in a more intentional or, um, trying to see the full capacity, my days aren't, uh, unfortunately, they aren't go grab a mic and sing.

Tim Fulton 38:15Right.

T Wong 38:15They are, I'm meeting with PR. I'm meeting with engineers. I'm meeting with producers. I'm meeting with graphic designers.

Tim Fulton 38:22This is your second job.

T Wong 38:23This is, this is. It's a completely sec- it's a completely different career.

Tim Fulton 38:27Right.

T Wong 38:27Um, and I have teams on both sides. Um, and so I have these meetings, and I, you know, throughout the night, management out in Arizona, things like that, really trying to come up with concepts and figure out where we're going and what the aspirations are, uh, and what are, what's the best strategy. Uh, just came back from Chicago and Gary for a album cover shoot instead-

Tim Fulton 38:47Okay

T Wong 38:47... of doing it in Columbus, 'cause Columbus at the, at this time doesn't offer, um, various and diverse scenes outside.

Tim Fulton 38:54Mm-hmm.

T Wong 38:54When you go to major cities, you know, or little cities that no one really goes to, then you get these kinda nuanced areas, things like that. So, um, being okay with investing in yourself.

Tim Fulton 39:03Mm-hmm.

T Wong 39:03I mean, recognizing that it may, it may flourish, and recognize that it may not, but, um, as a client told me, uh, if it doesn't flourish, you just have one hell of a time going back down to rock bottom.

Tim Fulton 39:13Well, and you certainly learn.

T Wong 39:14Yeah.

Tim Fulton 39:15Yeah. Absolutely. We're gonna wrap everything up with a new track from the upcoming album, The Upside Down. The title of that album is indeed inspired by Stranger Things, the Netflix series-

T Wong 39:27Yeah

Tim Fulton 39:27... that we will link in the show notes. T Wang, Stevon Thomas, thank you so much for coming in.

T Wong 39:33Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you to GCAC, Columbus Makes Art. Thank you, thank you to Confluence Cast for having me on here.

Tim Fulton 39:38Oh, yeah, that's who I am.

T Wong 39:39Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Fulton 39:40Yeah, absolutely.

T Wong 39:41Uh-

Tim Fulton 39:41My name's Tim, by the way.

T Wong 39:42Yeah, Mr. Fulton.

Tim Fulton 39:43Just like the-

T Wong 39:43Do you go by Tim, or do you go by Mr. Fulton?

Tim Fulton 39:45Just Tim. Just Tim. Just, just Mr. Fulton-

T Wong 39:46Thank you, Tim

Tim Fulton 39:47... when I'm substitute teaching. All right, cool. Mr. Wang, thank you.

T Wong 39:52Absolutely.

T Wong (musical performance) 39:57Did she? I'ma make a, on a, ride on the rollercoaster. I'm on cloud nine. Come see me. Come and meet me in the air. Come and meet me anywhere. I'm everywhere. History, I'm a maker of the beauty, and there's no takers. I'm on, going to another level. You can meet me in the air. You can meet me in the air. I'm everywhere. Come and ride with me, and you will. Come and ride with me, and you will. Come and ride with me, and you will. Come and ride with me, and you will. You will. You will see me today. Front end ain't my thing. Let's talk business. Come see me in the ring. Knock out, going for the first round. Come see me in the air. Come and meet me in the air. I'm everywhere. History, I'm a maker. I do everything you're afraid of. I am greater than your greatest dream. Come and see me in the air. Come and meet me anywhere. I'm everywhere. Come and ride with me, and you will. Come and ride with me, and you will. Come and ride with me, and you will. Come and ride with me, and you will. You will. You will Coming by with me and you will. Coming by with me and you will. You will. You will see me too, hey.

Tim Fulton 43:40Thank you for listening to The Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite musician. If you're interested in sponsoring The Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.