Issue One

Tim Fulton 0:06Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I am your host, Tim Fulton. For our inaugural episode, we've decided to do a deep dive on Issue One, the ballot measure to add ward representation to Columbus City Council. This issue will come before City of Columbus voters on Tuesday, August 2nd in a special election. For this episode, we sat down with representatives on both side of the issue. First up will be Whitney Smith, co-chair of Represent Columbus. They are the grassroots organization that wrote, gathered the signatures for, and are introducing the charter amendment petition. Then we speak with Brian Clark, the campaign manager for One Columbus, the group formed in opposition of the amendment. Before we get into those conversations, I just would like to give you a short explanation of the amendment and what it proposes. Currently, the Columbus City Council is comprised of seven members who are all elected at large by Columbus voters, meaning that they all run in citywide elections. Issue One, the amendment to the Columbus City Charter, if it passes, will keep three of those at-large members, and it introduces at first 10 district or ward-based members that will represent a defined portion of the population based on geography. As the city's population grows, the amendment outlines that the number of ward-based council members could grow up to 22, hence we may end up with a city council of 25 members. The geographic ward map is not currently defined. The wards will be drawn by an apportionment committee made up of three Democrats, three Republicans, and three unaffiliated members. In each of the interviews today, we discussed what the amendment is, what the amendment does, how it was written, why it was written, and what, in each interviewee's opinion, the issue is trying to achieve. I think you can imagine answers to all of those questions are different in each of the two interviews. The interviews have been edited for clarity, but the full content of each interview is intact. More information on Issue One can be found in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com, including the full ballot initiative language and the campaign finance reports for each organization. Enjoy the interviews. Sitting down here with Whitney Smith, the co-chair of Represent Columbus, the organization that put together the charter amendment petition that Columbus voters will give a yay or nay on on August 2nd. Whitney, how are you?

Whitney Smith 3:07I'm great. How are you?

Tim Fulton 3:08I'm doing well. First of all, give me the rundown of what the charter amendment petition is, what it does.

Whitney Smith 3:15Well, our charter amendment changes the structure of city council. Right now, our city council members, the seven that we have, are all elected at large in citywide elections. These elections are very expensive. They cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, in, in most cases more than a race for the State House costs, um, because they are citywide.

Tim Fulton 3:41And I'm sorry, costs in terms of donations made to the campaigns?

Whitney Smith 3:45Yes.

Tim Fulton 3:46Okay.

Whitney Smith 3:46The, the campaigns cost that much to run them, um, and be successful. So, uh, one of the, the main changes that we will see when we switch to a hybrid system, which we are proposing, which is three members at large and 10 districts created, is that it will have... uh, it will allow a lot more people to run for office. It will decrease the cost of the campaigns, and most importantly, it will give neighborhood representation. So right now, every single neighborhood group that I talk to, none of them feel like they have representation on city council because of the at-large model. Um, and the at-large model just really lacks accountability. So a lot of people in Columbus, if you say, "Well, who's your city council member?" They certainly won't name all seven, um, and they don't have a single one that they can go and talk to, you know, if they need a sidewalk fixed or have a very specific neighborhood issue. So this really helps combat that lack of accountability, lack of representation, and really put the city council, um, in, in the hands of the people, where it should be.

Tim Fulton 4:55What was the impetus for the amendment?

Whitney Smith 4:58This movement, um, started over five years ago with my co-chair, Jonathan Beard. Um, Jonathan Beard is a leader in his community, um, in the, the Near East Side, and he was having a lot of problems in his neighborhood with violence and crime. So he petitioned the city council repeatedly for help, um, and it really escalated when a, a young man was murdered, uh, two blocks from his office, and he said, you know, to the city council, "I need help. Things... Something needs to change. We, we need to do something."

Tim Fulton 5:36And was he asking for things specifically? Is this, you know, a policing issue?

Whitney Smith 5:39That, that he was asking for them to acknowledge.

Tim Fulton 5:41Okay.

Whitney Smith 5:42Acknowledge the issue, and he was repeatedly turned away. Very, very frustrated, obviously. And so he said, "Well, what can I do to give my neighborhood a voice?" And it was have representation on city council. He said, "If I have a city council member who lives in my neighborhood, who walks my streets and sees my problems, they're gonna do something about it because it's their neighborhood, too." So that's really, about five years ago, I would say the movement, um, leading up to Issue One now being on the ballot, that's what it started with. However, that's not, uh, unfortunately for us, that's not where it ended because going around, um, to different neighborhoods, every neighborhood has neighborhood-specific issues. Every community is lacking a voice right now. So this movement really grew to not encompass just one neighborhood but every neighborhood. Um, I like to say from, from the Short North to the Hilltop, I have had neighbors, um, and neighborhood organizations come to me saying, "We have these issues. Please do something about it. Please give us a voice." Um, and our organization has really transformed from, you know, getting this issue on the ballot, collecting the signatures, we collected 39,000 signatures to get this on the ballot, to really be the watchdogs in Columbus and speak up when huge injustices happen.

Tim Fulton 7:01Let me challenge you a little bit. If an individual, Jonathan Beard is, is the example you brought up, wants representation on city council, why not run someone for council from the neighborhood rather than trying to change the structure of council?

Whitney Smith 7:15That is such a great question, and many people from different neighborhoods have, uh, many times attempted to run for city council. And it really hearkens back to when I first brought up the price of city council races. And just to further clarify, beyond the price of the council elections, if you look at the current Council members, if you were not appointed by the city council president first, or if you don't have a family name that's really prominent in politics, you're not on city council right now. So even if you did raise the money that was needed, if you were not first appointed or had a name, you know, like Brown or Stinziano, you would not be able to get on city council the way it currently is structured. Because how it works now is the council president, they appoint someone to fill an empty seat, and so then that person runs as an incumbent, and they run with the backing and the funding, um, already of the, the people in city council, and they run with that added name ID.

Tim Fulton 8:15It doesn't seem to me as though a ward system is addressing those issues directly. The issues that you've brought up, the cost of running an election, the lack of representation, and the appointment process, two of those, from my reading, are not addressed in the amendment, correct?

Whitney Smith 8:34Yes, and here is why. We would love to, um, address, you know, cam- the campaign finance situation and the appointment process. Legally, we are not allowed. So we... A lot of times people ask that question, "Well, why are you only fixing, you know, the representation issue?" Because legally, a charter amendment has to only be a single issue. So while we 100% want to change, you know, the funding issue, the appointment process, those would be separate ballot initiatives.

Tim Fulton 9:03It feels as though we have a pretty successful council in that there is not a lot of infighting. I don't know the last time where there was a question that an issue going up before council may or may not get voted yay. Council has sort of crafted themselves in a way that they decide what they want ahead of time, and if they know that it's going to get passed, that's when it goes to the meeting, and there's not so much a surprise when the vote comes up.

Whitney Smith 9:31Yes, I think that hits the nail on the head of the exact problem that we have.

Tim Fulton 9:35Isn't that good?

Whitney Smith 9:36No. That is, uh, that is horrible. I... You've... You couldn't have said that better, I couldn't have said it better myself. Um, no, the problem that we have with city council is that it's a group think. They plan- Like you said, they plan ahead, um, of their meetings and come to the meeting and all vote yes. Uh, I don't know if you've been to a meeting recently. I've been to a few meetings and I have seen them completely ignore, uh, groups of concerned citizens who leave work early to get to the council meetings on time, because the meetings are not conducive to people that are, are working, and s- speak on behalf of their neighborhoods, speak on behalf of their small businesses, and can be completely ignored. Um, in, in most cases, the city council doesn't even ask them a question. Um, and, and then all vote yes every time, over and over again. Um, so I, I think that is not what we should have, um, in government or in democracy or in this country. The, the whole beauty of our system is that different people should be able to speak up for their interests, to speak up for their neighborhoods, you know, to give alternate points of view. Um, I, I really like to, to touch on a few different issues when talking about this. Uh, most recently we've seen in the Hilltop, they had, um, Big Lots there that employed hundreds of, of people. Um, and now we're seeing that move over, um, to around New Albany area. And so city council, you know, approved this, and not only did they, you know, help facilitate this, they, they gave Big Lots a $12.8 million, uh, tax break for their move. People in the Hilltop and the area commissioners, you know, are devastated by this. Um, their neighborhood needed those jobs, and sending those to the other side of town really-

Tim Fulton 11:27To be fair, it is still within Columbus.

Whitney Smith 11:29Yes, but this is the exact problem, though, though. You were addressing is, is on city council when they voted for this, there wasn't a person to speak up and say, "Hey, I live in the Hilltop. That's my neighborhood," you know. "Let's at least talk about this. Let's at least, uh, you know, have some alternate points of view, or at least we could have one dissenting no vote on the books." Um, but right now it's a group thinking, and you really see a lot of people get steamrolled, ignored, and, and then that creates a lot of disenfranchisement. So, uh, to me, I, I think it's probably one of our strongest arguments, the way the current city council meetings go are, are the opposite of representation of a representative form of government. They're really a group think. Them deciding on issues behind closed doors before they go into a meeting is unethical.

Tim Fulton 12:20I see what you're saying, but is a weekly council meeting the place for that argument to be occurring?

Whitney Smith 12:28Yes.

Tim Fulton 12:28I would assume that the Hilltop Area Commission was at least aware of what was happening. My question would be, and I'll, I'm gonna go ahead and answer it myself and you can tell me if I'm wrong, what would council say about this? And council would say, "Hey, Big Lots was gonna move. We don't want them to leave the Hilltop, but we kept them within Columbus." How would you respond to that?

Whitney Smith 12:50The area that city council, you know, has set up now for Big Lots to move is, in the tax abatement, that... It's very questionable. Um, because they just, I think in 2015, they made the area that Big Lots is moving into a tax abatable area, which is, you know, very questionable. Because i- if you're going to give tax abatements and tax breaks and incentives for giant, huge, profitable Fortune 500 companies like Big Lots to be at, then have them be in a neighborhood that really needs the jobs. Make that a, a abatement and tax break so they stay in the Hilltop or go to a neighborhood that really needs it. I mean, it, it's very questionable. A lot of ethical questions arise with, uh, situations like that, and just having the doubt is the problem.

Tim Fulton 13:41And that's a good point right there. Just having the doubt and having it seem as though things aren't happening in the open, uh, is a, is a very fair point. A couple of sort of minute questions. What happens to the area commissions that are, that are currently seated? While they don't vote- They advise and consent council.

Whitney Smith 14:04If you go to a city council meeting, you'll see, um, a whole area marked specifically for the area commissions to sit. Now, every city council meeting I've been to has been empty, and the reason it's been empty from every area commissioner that I've talked to is because city council completely ignores the area commissions. They will ask for recommendations, and then they will do whatever they want. The creation of districts helps strengthen the area commissions because right now the area commissions have absolutely no teeth. The city council has stripped them of that. So when you have districts and you have neighborhood representations, the area commissions will have a city council member that is specific to their area that they can address issues to.

Tim Fulton 14:49I understand what you're saying, but the area commissions are elected. While not every area of the city even has a commission, it's sort of incumbent upon the neighborhood to want it, but the city does provide funding for those elections. The charter amendment petition that you submitted doesn't address the area commissions. It's not incumbent upon the apportionment board to acknowledge the area commissions. And also, frankly, you're gonna end up with some districts with more than one area commission in them. It feels as though this is a larger solution for a problem, excuse me, a series of problems that could be incrementally fixed.

Whitney Smith 15:27Our charter doesn't address a lot of issues because it's a single-issue charter. Um, so from our standpoint, um, and from the standpoint of the 39,000 people that signed this charter amendment petition to get it on the ballot, you know, change needs to start here. There's been a lot of talk about, "Well, why didn't you fix this or that?" Or, "Why isn't this addressed in your charter amendment?" And it really comes to the point of legally we can only have one issue. We would love to address many other issues, but really we just have to address this issue that's at hand because this is the issue that 39,000 people in Columbus thought it was important enough to sign their name on a petition because they wanted to vote on it August 2nd. And this actually is the first in the history of Columbus to be done. Um, when charter amendments are put on the ballot, they are always put by city council themselves. So this is a, a great opportunity for people to vote on something that was actually citizen-driven.

Tim Fulton 16:24Do you see Represent Columbus continuing after this, continuing to introduce new issues to the charter that you feel need to be addressed, or is this sort of a one and done thing?

Whitney Smith 16:36I see Represent Columbus as a watchdog in Columbus, really helping to bring accountability back to the city. Um, we've heard a lot of, of different people and neighborhoods ask for, for many different, um, issues and help with issues beyond just the representation. So they want representation and campaign finance or representation and term limits for the mayor. There's so many other issues that can be addressed, but we're a grassroots group. You know, we don't have big corporate backing. We don't have any other motivations to do this except for the love of our community. So I know that Jonathan Beard and myself are gonna be here, and all of our Represent Columbus supporters are gonna be here. So if there is an outcry like there was for this, for representation, we will be there. Um, we are, we are committed to this city, and we are committed to doing the right thing, bringing accountability back, uh, to Columbus. Because right now we're seeing a huge issue with that. We have seen two people indicted and going to federal prison for their involvement in bribery and corruption at the city level, and we feel-

Tim Fulton 17:49Not elected officials, to be clear.

Whitney Smith 17:51No.

Tim Fulton 17:52Who is Represent Columbus? How did this get going specifically?

Whitney Smith 17:56Represent Columbus is a lot of different groups come together. It's, um, a lot of individual groups, neighborhood groups. Really, it's a, a bipartisan coalition of many different types of groups, um, but all united, um, under the same desire, and that's to have representation in Columbus. So I think that's a really unique part of our organization, that Jonathan Beard is an elected Democrat Central Committee member, and I myself am a Republican. And how often do you get to see that? It's, it's really a unique... It's a, an exciting group because it really is irrelevant what your party politics are because it's under the umbrella of good government. So people who want the government to represent them and really want good government, those are the people that are Represent Columbus.

Tim Fulton 18:47When did you get involved?

Whitney Smith 18:49I got involved a little over a year ago.

Tim Fulton 18:52Okay.

Whitney Smith 18:52I met Jonathan, and I heard his story, and I was, uh, very much compelled.

Tim Fulton 18:57You saw the issue, and you saw what w- they were trying to do, and you said, "Yeah, I think that that's something that's worthwhile, and I think that that's doable. Let's do it."

Whitney Smith 19:06Jonathan had the experience that I, I talked about earlier of, of about five years ago, having violence in his neighborhood really, you know, be the, the onset for his involvement, and I think while the reasons for our involvement differ, I live in German Village, and I don't have... I did not have the same experience that Jonathan had, and I never claimed that that's my reason for being involved because my reason for being involved is the issues of corruption that we were seeing. The lack of transparency and the lack of accountability, um, really cast a dark cloud over our city, and this is my home. I've lived in central Ohio my entire life. So the thought of that and the fact that there was no accountability in the government, and I'm currently seeing, you know, the FBI investigating. They've been here. They, they set up an office. I'm thinking, "This is not the Columbus where I've spent the past 30 years. Something needs to change. There's a clearly a problem, and the system is broken here." So that was really, um, my reason, and when you talk to people all over the city, everybody will have their own reason. I know m- In the Short North, we have a, a huge following, um, because of the City Council's repeatedly violating city code in the Short North. So their reason is, "Hey, they're violating city code, and this isn't the neighborhood I moved into anymore." You know, and then you can look at the, the Hilltop and say, "Hey, they just lost us this hundreds of jobs." Every neighborhood has a reason and every person has a unique story. But I, I think that we just set all of other politics aside and realize, you know, representation and doing this is the right thing, and come together, which, you know, I think is, is history, ah, making and groundbreaking in a presidential year for Democrats, Republicans, Independents, you know, Green parties, e- everybody to come together and united in saying, "We need this voice."

Tim Fulton 21:03How was the actual charter amendment petition written? Is this modeled on another city in terms of structure and the apportionment board?

Whitney Smith 21:12Yes. Jonathan Beard worked with, um, an attorney that specialized in writing these, um, and they looked at models all over the, the country of the, of the best and how they worked, um, and really put this together with that in mind. Um, the one hallmark of this proposal is that it's a hybrid system. So when you're, when you're looking at systems, um, there's an at-large system where all the members are elected citywide, and then there's also a district system where all the district- where all members are elected from districts. This is a hybrid system, so it takes the best of both worlds. So you get three at-large members, and then 10 districts are created. So you still get your three citywide elected officials, and then you still have your representation with the 10 districts that are created.

Tim Fulton 22:00Is there a city specifically you would point to that our model is based on this or our proposed model is most similar to this?

Whitney Smith 22:08There were quite a few that they looked at, so I don't wanna... And this was really Jonathan's thing, so I don't wanna point out one-

Tim Fulton 22:15Okay

Whitney Smith 22:15... um, that was specific, 'cause I know that they did a lot of research into quite a few and did not pick one specifically.

Tim Fulton 22:22Is there funding within Represent Columbus that people should be aware of, of where it's coming from?

Whitney Smith 22:29Um-

Tim Fulton 22:29Who has put money behind this issue?

Whitney Smith 22:31Uh, it's private citizens.

Tim Fulton 22:33Okay.

Whitney Smith 22:33We've got our funding from, you know, everybody around town. As I mentioned, we're a grassroots group, so the hallmark of our organization versus our opponent, um, is that we have seen our opponent now put up, ooh, what are, I think we're at over $300,000 on TV this past week. We are doing everything we can to, to raise money to try to combat the, the campaign of misinformation. We're the underdog in this, and we're going up against the establishment who's throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars to shut us down. So if we're gonna ask where money comes from, I'd really ask where the, the money comes from for them. We don't have that big corporate money. We don't have, uh, huge donors to, to pay for hundreds of thousands of dollars for us to go up on TV. Uh, we'll do the best we can, um, because we do feel that the 39,000 people that signed our petition deserve for us to run as much of a campaign as we possibly can, you know, to get the word out, to really show them the respect, um, to not just sit by and take that. Um, we're gonna speak up. We're gonna do the best we can, um, with what we have which is a, a, a fraction of what our opponents have. But we've seen in this city, um, recently that you can't buy the people of Columbus. You can't just put in tons of money and expect they're gonna vote your way. If you're on the right side of hist- history, people are gonna vote the right way. People are gonna vote on the right side of history no matter how much, you know, TV ads and, uh, direct mail and robocalls that you shove down their throat. So many people have personally experienced the lack of representation that we have at City Council, that they're not gonna buy it. They're not gonna buy the lies, and they're gonna vote for it.

Tim Fulton 24:20Whitney Smith, co-chair of Represent Columbus, thank you so much for your time.

Whitney Smith 24:24Thank you. I appreciate it.

Tim Fulton 24:31I'm sitting here with Brian Clark, the campaign manager of One Columbus, the organization formed in opposition of Issue 1, the, uh, charter amendment petition that's being voted on on August 2nd. Uh, first of all, Brian, thank you so much for making the time.

Brian Clark 24:46Thank you. It's great to be here.

Tim Fulton 24:47Tell us, just to provide context, tell us what, uh, Issue 1, the charter amendment petition, is and does.

Brian Clark 24:54Mm-hmm. Absolutely. You know, a lot of folks probably haven't heard much about Issue 1. Uh, they're busy doing normal things during the summer: vacations, kids home from school, uh, a little bit of travel or staycations possibly. Uh, but Issue 1 is a proposal that would ultimately triple the size of city council, uh, each council member making up to $80,000 a year for what is considered a part-time job. Uh, it's been put on the August 2nd special election ballot because, uh, that's when the petitioners want it to go before voters. Uh, unfortunately, they've actually said that they wanted lower voter turnout because that's part of their plan to win. So, uh, you know, what this would do is immediately increase council to 13 members, 3 at large, 10 from wards, and then over time would raise that to 25 members, 3 at large, 22 from wards.

Tim Fulton 25:43And that's based on population?

Brian Clark 25:45Yes, that's based on population and, uh, c- as it's currently structured, it would be about 85,000 people in each ward. So, uh, think about Clintonville, think it's a little over 30,000 people there, so think of three Clintonvilles, and that's how large a ward would be, roughly the size of a state house district.

Tim Fulton 26:02I see. One Columbus was formed specifically against this issue.

Brian Clark 26:06Uh, yes, there have been citizens groups, uh, that have opposed previous attempts to do things like this, and this is just the latest group that's, uh, come together, and it's a collection of neighborhood leaders, community leaders, faith leaders, labor unions, small businesses, folks from across Columbus that believe that Issue 1 is bad for our city.

Tim Fulton 26:26Now, obviously, the issue was brought up in response to shortcomings of the current structure of council. Can you address what you believe they're trying to do and why this is the wrong solution?

Brian Clark 26:39Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I'll start by why this is the wrong solution and then get into why I believe this happened. Um, so Issue 1 is an expensive way to go about changing our city government, and it's a way to do it in secret, not in public. Every other time we've changed our government, big or small changes, it's been a public process.

Tim Fulton 27:00And these are changes to the charter.

Brian Clark 27:02Yes, these are-

Tim Fulton 27:02Okay

Brian Clark 27:02... changes to the city charter, essentially our city's constitution.

Tim Fulton 27:05Right.

Brian Clark 27:06Um, every change ultimately requires a vote of the people, but the question is not just how you get to the, uh, what you do on Election Day, but how did you get there, okay? So Issue 1, we don't know who wrote it. It was written in secret. There was not a single public hearing. There was not a single public notice. No one in Columbus, other than the people that put it together, had a voice in what went into that petition. They went out and paid people to get signatures, and then put it on the ballot. So they're not asking for people's voice, they're asking for their vote. The way we've done it before that, though, is hold public hearings, take public testimony, have public records, know exactly who is engaged in that process, and then challenge them before council, and then vote, a, a vote of council, people who have been elected by the citizens of Columbus, to put it on the ballot, and ultimately approved or opposed by, uh, residents of Columbus. This has happened twice for proposals like Issue 1. In the late '60s and early '70s, these issues were put before Columbus voters, and they were, uh, defeated both times. Uh, so I, I would say, first of all, the process, I think, is wrong. And then I think the policy is wrong. You know, you'll hear a lot of talk about getting, uh, you know, this out of the hands of politicians, getting money out of politics. First of all, Seattle and, uh, Austin just went over to ward systems in the last year and a half. They set record spending for their elections, record special interest spending in their elections. One person in Seattle spent almost half a million dollars for a single district seat. It's very clear that the elections were more expensive under wards.

Tim Fulton 28:43How does that compare to what-

Brian Clark 28:45Mm

Tim Fulton 28:45... a current council member would-

Brian Clark 28:46Right

Tim Fulton 28:46... needs to raise?

Brian Clark 28:47Right. So if you look at Columbus versus, uh, those two cities and, and other peer cities, our voter turnout is higher, our elections are more competitive. So it's very interesting that even with this change that was supposed to make elections less expensive and more competitive, that didn't happen in Seattle. And as we look at other cities with wards or mixed wards, we see the exact same thing. In, uh, Baltimore, Maryland, for example, the average margin of victory for an incumbent there is 60%. That's how uncompetitive their elections are. Uh, and that's something that we saw here in Columbus back, uh, 100 years ago when we got rid of our ward system. We found that it had become, uh, dysfunctional. Ward bosses controlled everything. The elections were expensive. They weren't competitive. They weren't doing the job of the people, and we got rid of it. So, a- again, I see that, uh, this does not make us more competitive. It does not, um, solve the issues that Issue 1 claims it wants to solve. Now, why I think they're doing this, um, I think it comes down to power. Uh, the folks behind this have tried and failed to get on council by running. Um, the folks behind this disagree with the direction of our elected officials. So rather than running for office and winning, they're trying to change the rules of the game.

Tim Fulton 30:05Their primary argument for this, I believe, is that this provides representation-

Brian Clark 30:10Mm

Tim Fulton 30:11... for the neighborhoods, that I think it's fair to make an argument that there are some neighborhoods that have been held up and have been trumpeted and have then hence gotten more resources than other neighborhoods. How would you respond to that's what they're trying to do?

Brian Clark 30:27I don't think that they have made the case that this will lead to better representation. Uh, I really don't. If you think about it, Columbus is really coming into our own over the past decade as America's biggest small town. Uh, we just won the Smart Cities Challenge. We're America's Opportunity City. We lead the Midwest in job growth. We lead the nation in wage growth. So things are going well, but we know that not every neighborhood is sharing in that success. That's also very clear. So that's why we have programs like, uh, CelebrateOne, that is fighting infant mortality in impoverished areas of our city. That's why we have the Smart Cities Challenge investing heavily in Linden. That's why we have a city capital budget that is spending a record $70 million on the Hilltop and in Linden in a single year. So we recognize that not e- every area i- is succeeding, but more importantly, look at the other cities around the country that they point to as our peer cities. Does anyone believe that New Orleans has solved their economic problems? Does anyone believe that Chicago has solved their problems with crime? Does anyone believe that Washington, D.C. is a functional government? And I think the answer to all three of those is no. So this is not a matter of Issue 1 solving crime, solving jobs, solving, uh, neighborhood investment. It doesn't, because it hasn't done that in other cities either.

Tim Fulton 31:51So the continued investment in those underserved neighborhoods, which I believe the initiatives that you just pointed out, they all fall under the purview mostly of the, of the Ginther administration, correct?

Brian Clark 32:02That is correct.

Tim Fulton 32:03Is that investment the answer then to s- to solve that, that economic disparity?

Brian Clark 32:07This is gonna be a long-term issue to fix, right? Uh, 'cause again, I, I can't think of a city that has solved their economic inequality. I can't think of a city that, that has tackled poverty and solved it for good. Uh, but that doesn't mean that we stop trying. That doesn't mean that we don't have a laser-like focus on solving those issues. It also doesn't mean that changing our form of government is going to fix that. To me, it's sort of nonsensical to think that the solution to poverty is a different form of council. I, I don't see the connection there. But that doesn't change the fact that these are very real neighborhood problems, and they need our, our focus, our commitment, and, uh, frankly, new solutions to solve them.

Tim Fulton 32:48Just so that we get it out there, you are the campaign manager for, uh, One Columbus.

Brian Clark 32:53That's correct.

Tim Fulton 32:54You are on hiatus from your position within the Ginther administration?

Brian Clark 32:59That's correct. I was Mayor Ginther's campaign manager last year, and, uh, I'm on leave from the city, uh, to run One Columbus.

Tim Fulton 33:05One could ascertain then that One Columbus is primarily a function of the mayor's office and of council, who frankly has an interest in maintaining sort of the way things are now.

Brian Clark 33:17Uh, I'd respectfully disagree with that. Um, I, I've been privileged over the course of my career to work on dozens of campaigns locally, at the state level, and even nationally. Um, I really enjoy the work that I get to do, talking to voters about issues that have profound effects on their lives. Um, I think that what you see here are folks that, uh, you know, folks that are in the community, you know, real neighborhood leaders, faith leaders, union leaders, who fundamentally believe that Issue One will, uh, cause problems, wi- will stop the growth and success that we have here in Columbus. And they wanna see this issue lose on, uh, August 2nd.

Tim Fulton 33:58The mayor and council have announced a charter review commission, I think it's fair to say, in response to this issue being on the ballot. While the goal is defeating the issue, would you predict that we would eventually move to a ward system? Do you see changes coming down the pike as a result of this, even if it fails?

Brian Clark 34:15I think it's just time to take a look at whether or not we need to modernize our council. Uh, we last looked at the charter in 2014. Uh, the, that charter review commission was charged at, uh, modernizing the entire charter, so there wasn't really an opportunity to do that deep dive into things like, uh, you know, wards or other ways of structuring council. It's time to do that now, but more importantly, time to do it the right way. So having a bipartisan commission of Columbus residents, no Columbus politicians, no city staff people, going out there, holding public hearings across our city, hearing from neighborhood, uh, neighbors about what's working, what's not, what are we getting right, what can we do better, and then looking at successful peer cities. You know, we hear a lot about what are the top 50 cities doing. Um, I'm not really interested in what the top 50 cities are doing. I'm interested in what the top 10 successful cities are doing. So let's look at the successful cities, the cities that are growing, whose e- economies are thriving, who are getting it right, and find out what we can learn from them. 'Cause what we've already learned is that, um, while the supporters of Issue One would, would lead you to believe that we're simply out of step with everyone else, and everyone else is doing, you know, what Issue One would do, it's not true. There's great variety in the way that other cities operate. You have cities with aldermen who operate as sort of mini mayors. You have cities that, uh, have commission form of government, where there may be districts, but the commissioners run departments within the city. They're not a purely legislative branch. Um, there are a lot of different ways to go about structuring local government. So let's do that deep dive, and then let's look at the appointment process. Because when you hear people from, uh, the supporters of Issue One talk about the current council, while I take exception to what they would say about them, all of their issues seem to center around the appointment process. Issue One doesn't change that process. It actually makes it worse. Because under Issue One, if your ward council member leaves council, the other nine ward members that you never got to vote for, and then the three that you do, pick your replacement. So you really have practically no voice in who's representing you at that point. Under the current system, if a council member leaves, the other six, all of whom stood for election before you, pick a replacement until the next municipal election.

Tim Fulton 36:37One Columbus has pointed directly at the contributions that have been made to the Represent Columbus campaign. Can you talk a little bit about what you see in their finance reports?

Brian Clark 36:49Absolutely. So, uh, you know, Represent Columbus filed their campaign finance reports yesterday, and what we found is that over 99% of their money can't be traced back to a donor. So much of the money came from a local nonprofit development corporation, uh, that cr- uh, is actually a 501[c][3] nonprofit that's supposed to be revitalizing the east side. Instead, they have given $140,000 to this political campaign, but we have no idea where they got their money. In addition to that, there is a shadowy super PAC from Colorado. It's actually, uh, housed at a, at a residential address in Colorado, and they have also reported giving money, uh, to Issue One as sort of in-kind money to them. But we have no idea where their ma- money came from either. So here we have this organization that is talking about transparency, democracy, mass participation. 99% of their money might as well have come from the Koch brothers because we know about as much where their money comes from as we do where Represent Columbus's money comes from.

Tim Fulton 37:52So where does One Columbus's money come from then?

Brian Clark 37:55We have been completely transparent about where our money comes from. It comes from labor unions. It comes from small businesses. It comes from corporations that, uh, employ literally tens of thousands of people here in central Ohio. It comes from across central Ohio. And, you know, we have been very transparent about every dime that we've received and every dime we're going to spend.

Tim Fulton 38:18Two things that you didn't mention there. Is, you know, is the local Democratic Party contributing to the campaign, to, uh, One Columbus? And are the individual council members and mayor using their campaign coffers to contribute as well?

Brian Clark 38:31So here locally, we're excited to have the endorsement of the Franklin County Democratic Party. Uh, on the other side, Issue 1 is endorsed by the Franklin County Republican Party, or as we call it, the party of Donald Trump. Uh, so, uh, we do not have, though, uh, a situation where, again, we're, we're trying to hide money like Represent Columbus is doing. Um, we're being completely transparent about where all of our money is coming from, and we will continue to be completely transparent about where we spend our money.

Tim Fulton 39:01This is the first time anybody's actually brought it up as a party issue. Do you see this as a party issue? Do you see it as, you know, there hasn't been a Republican on council the mid-'90s?

Brian Clark 39:12Yeah. Jeanette Bradley was the last Republican on council.

Tim Fulton 39:14So do you see this as a, uh, a partisan issue?

Brian Clark 39:18I don't think it needed to be, but I think that it was forced into being a partisan issue, I think primarily by the people who support the issue. Um, a- again, we have very competitive elections here in Columbus, more so than, than I think we get credit for. Um, the Republican Party has put up some, uh, candidates that have done very well in, in recent elections. They've done, uh, very well in terms of fundraising. It's just that the people of Columbus have not agreed with their approach to the city. They have not agreed with their message. So, you know, a- as far as the elections here in Columbus, I don't know that it's necessarily, uh, this partisan issue that led to Issue 1, but I do think that if you look at the backers of Issue 1, you know, a failed mayoral candidate, failed, uh, city council candidates, the Republican operatives that are working on the issue, and now a candidate who has run for I think at least two offices this year, um, it's very clear that there is a, a, a sense of a Republican, uh, interaction and support of Issue 1, which I think for a progressive like me raises some questions about what Issue 1 is really all about.

Tim Fulton 40:29I have compared this to, at least in my own head, to the statewide marijuana, uh, ballot initiative, uh, in that from the outset it looks as though we are giving you what you want with this ballot initiative. However, when you dig into it, it inures to the benefit of someone. And the, the, the comparison I'm making is simply this is a ballot issue that didn't have the public input on it. Do you see that if this passes, it would inure to the benefit of someone, or is it simply people trying to stir the pot?

Brian Clark 41:03I think it's much more than people trying, trying to stir the pot. I think there is clearly an agenda at play here. Um, just have to look at the public comments of Issue 1 supporters, the folks that are engaged in that campaign. It's not about good government. It's not about representation. It's about power, and it's about power for them. Uh, they have not been able to, uh, win their elections for council. They haven't been able to win their elections for mayor. They're angry about that. Um, so it really has more to do with the people that are currently serving, not the places where they're serving. Uh, but I do think that the, uh, correlation between this and the Responsible Ohio is a very good one. Um, that was one where they took something that seemed to be pretty popular, you know, the idea of, uh, of, uh, legalization or at least decriminalization, um, and put it before voters, but there are all these little time bombs in there. We have the same thing with Issue 1. You know, they talk about taking, uh, this out of the hands of politicians, but we don't know what the ward maps look like. We don't know what wards we would live in. We have absolutely no idea who's gonna be drawing them. But what we do know is that they are gonna be, for the first time in over 100 years, appointed based on their political party. We don't have any other city entity that is appointed based on political party. In fact, when you go to vote, there's no D, I, or R next to a person's name. So why are we injecting that type of partisan politics into our local government in a way that we haven't before? Um, uh, that just seems very odd to me. It seems very curious that also in a city that by any measures is highly Democratic, that we would be giving equal standing to Democrats and Republicans on a board drawing, drawing ward maps. I don't think that's about equality. I think that's about power, and I think it's about power that's being taken, not earned.

Tim Fulton 42:55It's interesting to point out as well that if this were to pass, those running for both council at large and within the wards still would be a non-- it would still be a nonpartisan election.

Brian Clark 43:05Yes.

Tim Fulton 43:06There w- still wouldn't be a, a D, an R, or an I behind their name.

Brian Clark 43:10That's correct.

Tim Fulton 43:10What would you say to a neighborhood leader who didn't believe that they were being fairly or properly represented with the current structure of council?

Brian Clark 43:21I'd ask them to come sit down with us, talk about their issues, uh, share their concerns, and then at the end of the day, understand that there are gonna be places where we're heard but we're not in agreement. I think sometimes we confuse those two. We think if we talk to someone, they disagree with us, that means they didn't hear us, because surely they wouldn't disagree with us if they, if they'd actually heard us. A great example is, um, what Jonathan Beard points to as the genesis for this issue. By any measure, there was a very tough summer in 2010. There were a lot of issues on the East Side and by his own admission, the city was very proactive in responding to those issues. But he came to council with a piece of legislation that he wrote, and he said, "I want you to pass this." The city attorney told him that it was unconstitutional. City Council told him it was unconstitutional.

Tim Fulton 44:15And to be clear, what was at the heart of this legislation?

Brian Clark 44:17Uh, this is called a loitering in aid of drug offense. So essentially, it's a law that would say that if you're in an area and doing something sort of-- it's called furtive activity. So you're doing something that could look like hailing down someone to sell drugs to them, the police have the right to stop and frisk you. You could be waving at a friend who's driving by or you could be selling drugs. Either way, in the Near East Side, the police under that law would've been able to just stop- And frisk anyone they wanted to. And there's a reason that that was not constitutional. So what did we do? We said, "We're sorry. We can't do that." But he didn't wanna hear no. He kept pushing for the same thing after being told it was unconstitutional. What did we do? We went back and we wrote a constitutional loitering in aid of drug offense ordinance, and we passed it two months later. We got it done. We just didn't do it the way he wanted it done, and I think that's led to this sense that he wasn't heard, when in fact, he was, and we got a, a great tool in the hands of police to help with the issues he was seeing in his neighborhood.

Tim Fulton 45:24Back to the Charter Review Commission, is it fair to say that it was formed to say, "Do not vote for Issue One, because we will fix this the proper way"? Isn't that then acknowledging that there are issues that need to be solved?

Brian Clark 45:39I don't know that it would be fair to say, uh, you know, "Don't vote for Issue One because we're doing this," or, "You don't need to turn out and vote." First of all, this is an August 2nd special election ballot. We encourage every Columbus voter to turn out and vote. Regardless of your position on this issue, make sure your voice is heard. Uh, but what we do wanna do is, is to the folks that believe that there may need to be change in Columbus and are convinced that this may be the only shot that they have to get this done, we want them to know that that's not true, that you don't have to go for something that is poorly written, that is riddled with legal problems, that really doesn't achieve what people are being told it will achieve. There's a way to do it and do it right. So we're gonna pull together seven people who are Columbus residents, who aren't city employees, they're not city politicians. They're gonna go listen to you. You're gonna have a voice in that process. And I think it's fair to say that there will be recommendations that come out of this, this, uh, committee, recommendations on the appointment process, repres- uh, recommendations on the, uh, structure of city council, and those are gonna be vetted by the community and by city council. I don't wanna prejudge what they're gonna come back and say. You know, I'm not gonna say that they will come back and recommend A, B, or C. But what I do firmly believe, having done this before, is that they're gonna come back with very thoughtful, properly vetted, well-written recommendations for our community to consider.

Tim Fulton 47:09And while there are lots of different ways to structure a city government, some would say, you know, we, we are the largest city in the country that doesn't have ward representation. How would you respond to that?

Brian Clark 47:23I would say that you look at the largest cities in the country, and there is so much variation. You have unified forms of government, where it's a, a county council form of government. A lot of people don't realize that that's what San Francisco has. Um, they have sup- uh, supervisors, not council members, which have... serve a different function. In, uh, Chicago, you have aldermen, which again act as sort of mini mayors in their area. Uh, in Portland, you have a commissioner form of government. There's just so much variety, not just in how it's structured, but in the responsibilities and the duties of those legislative branches in these various cities. Um, you know, in some cities, they have what's called a board of supervisors that approve spending, and then they have a council that approves other things. So, uh, again, I would, I would stress that we can't really say these are apples to apples comparisons. We really need to figure out what works best for Columbus, not what works best for someone else.

Tim Fulton 48:24Brian, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

Brian Clark 48:27Yep, absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Tim Fulton 48:36Thank you so much for listening to The Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, more information on Issue One can be found at theconfluencecast.com. Special thanks to Lauren Sega at Columbus Underground for her help on today's episode. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, your family, your contacts, your, your enemies, if you like. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week, and don't forget to vote.