Governor Ted Strickland

Tim Fulton 0:13Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, in a special live event, I sat down with former Ohio governor Ted Strickland. We talked about gun violence, how he decided to run for governor, what it's gonna take to turn Ohio blue, and whether Ohio is woke. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, The Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. Enjoy the interview. I'm sitting down here with former Governor Strickland of the great state of Ohio. Ted, how are you?

Ted Strickland 1:12I'm great.

Tim Fulton 1:13Good.

Ted Strickland 1:13I look forward to talking with you.

Tim Fulton 1:15No, thank you so much for coming out. Talk through what you're working on now. I th- I've seen that you're s- spoke at Capital last week and that you've been very active, but I don't think a whole lot of folks know that you, what you're working on.

Ted Strickland 1:29Well, I'm doing some writing. Um, and um, I'm, um, working on a speech regarding violence, um, guns, and public health. Um, and uh, I, I'm focusing a lot of my recent attention on guns and gun violence and what's happening to us and, um, and the opioid, uh, epidemic. You know, I was wondering the other day how many soldiers our country had lost in battle from the time of the Revolutionary War until the current war on terror. And, uh, I found out that we've lost about 1.1 million soldiers in battle. And at current death rates, if they remain what they are now, within about 10 years we will lose as many lives to drugs and guns as we've lost through the 200 and some year history of our nation. And we've come to almost accept it as if that's the way it is, and nothing can be done to interfere with those grim statistics, and I think there are some things that could be done. And, um, I'm, I'm trying to find out, for myself at least, what are the reasonable steps that can be taken to reduce the deaths from an intentional drug overdose and gun deaths.

Tim Fulton 3:16A, uh, laudable task to be sure, and laudable, uh, uh, subject matter to be focused on. Um, you have ser- started first election, and forgive me if I'm wrong with dates here, I don't have them in front of me, 1976, uh, running for the United States Congress. Is that fair to say?

Ted Strickland 3:38Well, I ran in '76 and lost, '78 and lost, 1980 and lost. Someone has said that if you, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again, and then give up. There's no sense being a damn fool about it.

Tim Fulton 3:54Well, you... And sorry, and you, if at first you don't succeed, you try, try, and then try it again.

Ted Strickland 4:00Yes.

Tim Fulton 4:00And so there you go.

Ted Strickland 4:02So on my fourth attempt I was elected to the House of Representatives in 1992, and I went to Washington. I worked really hard. I thought I had served my constituents well, and then I lost in the '94 election. I won with, with about, uh, 51% of the vote in '92. I lost with about 49% of the vote in '94. And so I ran again, and I was elected in '96 with about 51% of the vote, so there was an established pattern developing there. Then I solidified my hold on my district, and they gave me a new district basically after redistricting, and I won that district. And then when I decided to run for governor, I, you know, in my last race for the House I didn't have an opponent, which was-

Tim Fulton 4:55Right

Ted Strickland 4:56... really nice. But-

Tim Fulton 4:58Is that... Well, let me ask you, though. As someone who had lost a couple of times, was it truly... It, it's jokingly funny to say, "Yes, it was really nice not to run against anyone," but I, I imagine your interest was to serve, and it wasn't to run. But was it good to not have an opponent?

Ted Strickland 5:18Well, when you're in the House of Representatives, you are, if you're serving, you're also running, because there's an election every two years. And, um, and... But I think you can do both. I mean, I, I s- I came home every weekend, uh, with the exception of maybe three or four weekends a year.

Tim Fulton 5:39Okay.

Ted Strickland 5:39I came home, and I worked while I was home and tried to serve the people that I cared about.

Tim Fulton 5:48Got it. And so then talk to me about your goals for governor and why you transitioned to that.

Ted Strickland 5:55Well, I don't wanna go into too much detail, but I was in my office one day, and I, I received a call from Harry Reid, who was the majority leader in the Senate- And, um, Senator Reid said, "Would you come to my office? I'd like to talk with you." So I go over to his office. I had never met Senator Reid. When I get over there, he has Senator Stabenow from Michigan, Senator Durbin from Illinois, and Senator Schuber, uh, Schu- Schumer from New Yo- uh, New York. And they said, "We've been looking at your background, and we think you'd be a good candidate for the Senate."

Tim Fulton 6:29Okay.

Ted Strickland 6:30And I had never thought of running for the Senate, so I said, "Would you do some polling to see if it's even feasible?" And they did, and it looked pretty good. And so my chief of staff, who was from Athens, Ohio, but had worked for Senator John Glenn in the Senate and knew what the Senate was like. Uh, so John said to me, "Ted, if you're willing to take a chance on leaving the House, why don't you run for governor instead of running for the Senate? Because a governor can actually do things-"

Tim Fulton 7:01Can affect change

Ted Strickland 7:02... and make decisions-

Tim Fulton 7:02Right

Ted Strickland 7:02... and can get things done." And so I called Senator Reid and I said, "Senator, I've decided not to run for the Senate. I'm going to run for the governor's office." And hi- his answer was really cool. He, he said, "Ted, I wish you were running for the Senate, but I'm glad you're not staying in the House." He s- he said, "The country's in trouble, and the country needs people willing to take a risk, and you're taking a risk by leaving the House." I thought that was a, a, a really... It made me feel good to, uh, to... for the, for Senator Reid to say that. So I r- I ran for the governor and I won and I served for four years and then I lost.

Tim Fulton 7:44But, and then after that, you then decided to run for Senate.

Ted Strickland 7:48Well, I did some things in the interim period. I spent a few months at the UN in New York. I spent a semester at the Kennedy School, uh, at Harvard. Um, I spent one year as the, um, executive director and president of the Center for American Progress Action Fund, and then I decided to run for the Senate.

Tim Fulton 8:12And what was your inspiration then to run for the Senate?

Ted Strickland 8:15Well, I felt I could do a better job than the fellow who held the office. Um-

Tim Fulton 8:19Mm-hmm

Ted Strickland 8:20... and, um-

Tim Fulton 8:20That is our current senator-

Ted Strickland 8:23Uh

Tim Fulton 8:23... Rob Portman.

Ted Strickland 8:23Yeah, Ro- Rob Portman. And, um, you know, when you're in the House and you're in the minority, there's not a whole lot you can do except raise hell and make speeches, because the way the House is organized, if you're a member of the minority, you really have no, no legislative power because the majority party decides what bills are voted on under what conditions. And, um... But if you're a senator, you have more power because, um, a, a single senator, uh, at least as long as, you know, the filibuster's in place and so on, um, can have more influence. And so that's why I decided to run for the Senate, and, um, um, I, I lost that one.

Tim Fulton 9:18That's fair. I, I, I w- And we're gonna talk about sort of Ohio as a whole from a, from a electorate perspective here in a minute, but I wanna talk about what you, what you see as your, as your legacy as, as governor of the state.

Ted Strickland 9:34Well, we reformed education very significantly when I was governor. Uh, in fact, Ohio was designated as the state with the boldest, um, most innovative education reform plan. Unfortunately, as soon as I left office, uh, that, um, that plan was abandoned. Um, we also passed a very significant energy bill with a, uh, a pretty strong renewable standard. Um, and for a state like Ohio, it was considered one of the strongest in the nation at the time because Ohio was a diverse, large manufacturing state, and we use a lot of energy. And so we passed this very significant energy bill, and unfortunately, within the last few months, um, with, uh, w- with the current legislature, uh, our renewable standards have been obliterated. They no longer exist. I think we're the only state in the nation that has actually taken a step backward when it comes to, uh, renewable energy. And, um, but those are two things that I'm, you know, that I'm really proud of. I'm proud of the fact that I worked hard and I was honest, and we didn't have any scandals, and, and, um, you know, we tried to serve the people, uh, in a way that was, um, consistent with the values that I, and I think most Ohioans, hold.

Tim Fulton 11:03I wanna pivot a little bit and, and talk about sort of the reason why these folks are here tonight, to, to watch the Democratic debate. Do you wanna do the juicy stuff first, or-

Ted Strickland 11:11We can do whatever you wanna do.

Tim Fulton 11:13Okay, let's do... Talk about, uh, how you feel about the current slate of Democratic candidates for, uh, president.

Ted Strickland 11:20Well, I think they're really good people, um, talented people, and any one of them would be a, a zillion times better, uh, to be in the Oval Office than the current president, I believe. Um, but let me say this. Um, my, my first choice was Governor Jay Inslee of Washington State-

Tim Fulton 11:44Okay

Ted Strickland 11:44... uh, who, who dropped out unfortunately. But Jay, um, was emphasizing the danger facing humankind of, uh, climate change, and he was determined to try to draw attention to that issue and to try to get things done that would save us before it's too late. Um, but I also was a roommate with Jay Inslee for 10 years when we were in the House together-

Tim Fulton 12:12So you like the guy a little bit

Ted Strickland 12:12... and he's one of my dearest friends.

Tim Fulton 12:13Right.

Ted Strickland 12:13So there's a little... You know, I had a little bias, uh, factor there, but I like all the candidates. I like some better than others. Um, uh, I know some better than others. I've known Jo- uh, uh, um, Joe Biden for, gosh, for well more than a decade. I, I know Elizabeth Warren, uh, well. Um, Bernie has helped me in the past. Um, I d- I don't know, um, uh, Senator Harris, but I'm impressed by her. Um, uh, Mr. Yang, uh, I think is 10 years ahead of his time. I think-

Tim Fulton 12:52Okay

Ted Strickland 12:52... I think he is the one person who is talking about the most fundamental economic issue facing our country. Um, a- and eventually we will, I think, um, need to listen to, to Mr. Yang and, and, and people like him who are, um, looking at our economy, um, in, in, in a way that shows an understanding of, of the incredible changes that we are facing economically, and not just simply trying to apply a Band-Aid here and a Band-Aid there, but actually understanding the complexity of the economy and how it's changing and what's, what that's going to do for our, our people if we don't come to terms with that.

Tim Fulton 13:44Any... I, I would be remiss if I didn't ask if you had a, a favorite candidate in the, the current slate, the current race.

Ted Strickland 13:51I haven't chosen, uh, someone to support.

Tim Fulton 13:54Okay.

Ted Strickland 13:54Um, I eventually will I'm sure, but I want to give everybody a chance to speak their piece and, and, uh, make their case. And, um, but I can tell you this, for me, um, the greatest factor in who I will eventually support is who I think has the best chance of defeating the current president. Um, I, I probably wouldn't have said that i- in prior elections.

Tim Fulton 14:27Right.

Ted Strickland 14:28But I think the danger that we face if we were to have a second Trump presidency is, uh, uh, the country would change for generations to come. Uh, I fear what would happen if this current president could appoint one, two, or three additional Kavanaughs or Thomases to the United States Supreme Court. And, um, and in that regard, I think it's almost as important in this coming election to capture control of the Senate as it is to win the presidency because, um, uh, uh, the Supreme Court can, can affect the, the, the character, the na- the nature of this country, and I think they're on the way to doing that, quite frankly.

Tim Fulton 15:23Yeah.

Ted Strickland 15:24Uh, if, if you're a woman and you're concerned about reproductive freedom, you, you ought to be concerned about the Supreme Court. If you're a, a labor member and you're concerned about the future of organized labor, you ought to be concerned about the future of the Supreme Court. If you're an environmentalist and you wanna have clean water and, and, and clean air, you ought to be concerned about the Supreme Court. So the Supreme Court has the ability to dramatically affect the country in, in nearly every way. And, um, and so I want a, a Democrat in the presidency to protect us from the Supreme Court being, uh, altered any, any more than it already has been.

Tim Fulton 16:08So is it fair to say that you view that as the, the largest threat, not necessarily Trump being reelected, but the Supreme Court turning even farther to the right and having carte blanche in terms of, uh, nominating and confirmation in the Senate, but it's the Supreme Court is the issue?

Ted Strickland 16:28I think it's, I think it's a huge issue, and unfortunately, I think a lot of the voting public really doesn't understand the power and the influence of the Supreme Court. Um, a- and, uh, so it's hugely important. So it's a, it's a big issue for me. And, um, o- other issues are important, but that's certainly near the top.

Tim Fulton 16:55Um, I actually... The, the first question I wrote down is actually the one that I'm gonna go with right now. Is Ohio... We used to as, f- I imagine most of the folks here are residents of Columbus, and during every pres- certainly presidential elections, and even, uh, off-year elections, we would see news trucks surrounding the capital, uh, downtown because Ohio was viewed as the, a- as the, capital T, uh, battleground state. Th- we're not... We don't actually t- at least from a, a national standpoint, tend to be in that conversation much anymore. Do you believe that Ohio is still a battleground state? And the two things I want you to a- address is both Trump's election and then also the slate of, uh, statewide candidates in the off-year election, of which Sherrod was the only one, from a Democratic perspective, that was reelected.

Ted Strickland 18:02Yes, and Sherrod had a very weak candidate that spent very little money, so, um- Uh, you know, I think Sherrod was very fortunate in that election. Let me tell you this. I, I have friends across the country who tend to be large donors to progressive causes.

Tim Fulton 18:20Okay.

Ted Strickland 18:21And a year ago, I would've said to them, "If you're trying to decide where to put your resources, focus on Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania before you put money into Ohio." I, I-

Tim Fulton 18:36So, and I'm sorry, just to g- I, and I just wanna put a note there. Those are the states that are now talked about for, for the next cycle.

Ted Strickland 18:44Yes.

Tim Fulton 18:45Or the current cycle, rather.

Ted Strickland 18:46Yes. I'm not sure I would tell my friends that now, because I, I think Ohio is s- showing some slight signs of, uh, being woke- ... so to speak. Um, and, um, so I, I think it is... It's gonna be difficult, but I think it's possible for Ohio to vote for a Democrat in 2020, and w- let me tell you why I think that's possible. I don't think it's possible if our party spends a lot of time and energy and resources trying to c- to recapture Trump Democrats.

Tim Fulton 19:28Okay.

Ted Strickland 19:29I, I think a lot of people who, w- who are supporting Trump, and I, I don't like to say this, but I believe it, are supporting Trump for reasons involving race, gender, uh, a- and, you know, those kind of issues that I think in the past have not been, uh, socially acceptable in terms of expressing one's opinion. What I'm trying to say is I think Trump has ripped a scab off of some perhaps feelings that had been suppressed for a long period of time, and he's given people permission to be racist and to speak about it and to, and to act upon it. And, um, I don't know that we're gonna win a lot of those people back who may have voted for him. But this is why I think we can win in Ohio. We've gotta, we've gotta make sure that we have a large, robust turnout within the minority communities. We've got to focus on women. Women can save us as a country. I really believe that. And we've gotta focus on the suburbs, because that's where I think the policies and the behaviors of Donald Trump give us an opportunity to recapture or to capture a lot of votes who in the past may have been directed toward the Republican candidate.

Tim Fulton 21:10This is maybe a part that's gonna get edited out. I, I feel like you s- you, you said from one side, "I don't think we can win back the folks who were given permit..." A- and I'm... Correct, please c- stop me and correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think we can win back the folks, and I say we, uh, Democrats can win back the folks who have been given permission to other people, to other people of different races, to-

Ted Strickland 21:40Immigrants

Tim Fulton 21:40... to other-

Ted Strickland 21:41Immigrants, uh, the, the, the, uh, uh, uh, you know, a lot of-

Tim Fulton 21:44Well, it's, it's immigrants, it's African Americans, it's women, it's homosexuals, it's... Columbus has a whole other issue with, uh, the transgender community that-

Ted Strickland 21:54Yes

Tim Fulton 21:54... needs to be addressed. W- you, you believe that the scab has been ripped off, and it's now just a gaping wound, that, um, uh, we're not gonna win those people back. But at the same time you say our focus has to be on those that have been othered, if that makes sense. I'm using other as a verb here.

Ted Strickland 22:20Yes. Yes.

Tim Fulton 22:21And-

Ted Strickland 22:21You see a contradiction in that?

Tim Fulton 22:23I don't, I, I don't see a contradiction, but I see it as what... Well, it's fri- here's the frightening part, is that we allow the othering to be real, and it's the thing that I would like to see s- not necessarily, like, a joining together, and I think everybody should hold hands across the aisle. I don't, I don't know that I necessarily agree with that. I think that my concern is, is that, oh, they chose this, and so hence we have to choose that.

Ted Strickland 22:58Well, um, I don't think we should exclude anyone who wants to be a part of recapturing the, um, soul of this nation of ours.

Tim Fulton 23:12Absolutely.

Ted Strickland 23:13Um, a- but my point is I don't think we can, uh, likely w- w- would likely win Ohio if we approach the electorate in the same way we have in years past. Um, I think we've got to develop different coalitions, and we've got to, uh, include, uh, people who may not have felt included in the past.

Tim Fulton 23:42Absolutely.

Ted Strickland 23:43And, um, so any, um, anyone who believes that w- uh, b- that we are, uh, e- uh, all entitled to an equal shot in this society of u- of ours, that believes that women have a right to control their own bodies, that believes that children have the right to a quality education, that believes that, uh, transgender folks, um, have a right to, to feel, um, valued and protected from abuse- Um, uh, uh, anyone who believes those things, come on board. But I don't know that we ought to try to convince a person who is expressing racist and bigoted ideas to vote for our candidate. It doesn't make sense to me.

Tim Fulton 24:36And I think the thing that I, uh, uh, I'm not gonna call it the third rail, but the third way. I think the th- the thing that I didn't include there is that we... You believe that we should take a strong stance in order to embrace an electorate that feels left out and not temper our thoughts so that folks who may be racist, bigoted, closed-minded, uh, so that they feel welcome-

Ted Strickland 25:06Feel comfortable with us.

Tim Fulton 25:06Right.

Ted Strickland 25:06I don't want them to feel comfortable with us and our party and, and, and, and how we are approaching, uh, an election. You know, if they wanna renounce their bigotry and racism, if they wanna say, "No longer should we put kids in change, uh, cages," if they wanna say, "A woman has a right to, to make her own healthcare choices," then come on board. We welcome you. But I don't think we should be so concerned about trying to capture a segment within our society that embraces those kinds of feelings that we're willing to compromise our efforts in order to win them over.

Tim Fulton 25:46This question started with, is Ohio still a battleground state? And I think that what we've been talking about a lot is, how do we turn it blue? Why do you think that we... Back to what you were saying earlier about donors, that you would have encouraged them a, a year ago to put their money in other places, why do you think we are where we are, as Ohioans, as Ohio?

Ted Strickland 26:10Why are we no longer considered a, a battleground state?

Tim Fulton 26:12Correct.

Ted Strickland 26:13Well, I-

Tim Fulton 26:14Why would you... Why didn't you recommend to those folks, "Yes, put your money in Ohio, because we can win there"?

Ted Strickland 26:20Because I was, I was looking at, at, uh, at, at the, the support that the president appeared to have in Ohio at that time. I do think that is beginning to wane. Uh, I don't think we're there yet. If the election were held tomorrow night, I don't think our, a, a Democrat would win Ohio. But I do believe that it's possible if we i- n- you know, engage the minority communities in Ohio, and we, uh, use the, the, the, the power of women effectively or a- allow them to use their power effectively, uh, and if we go to where Democrats usually haven't gone in the past, and that's into these suburbs that are perceived to be Republican, uh, historically, and, um, I think we can win a, a large numbers of those people. And, uh, uh, that, that seems to be happening in, in various races across the country.

Tim Fulton 27:23Do you think a, a statewide candidate, not, not a national candidate, but a statewide candidate can use that same strategy to win back governorship, attorney general, secretary of state, Senate seat across the board? Is that the same strategy that should be utilized?

Ted Strickland 27:42A- absolutely.

Tim Fulton 27:44Okay.

Ted Strickland 27:44Absolutely. And, uh, and I mean, look what happened, uh, in, in Kentucky and Louisiana, um, s- states that are arguably redder than Ohio.

Tim Fulton 27:55Yes.

Ted Strickland 27:56But, uh, two Democrat candidates wo- won an incumbent, won w- w- uh, won re-election, and, um, Governor Beshear, um, won in Kentucky. And so I, I don't think that would've happened in Kentucky, uh, uh, last year.

Tim Fulton 28:15Okay.

Ted Strickland 28:16I think there is some indication that folks are getting a little tired of what we're putting up with in terms of the current president, uh, and, and, and are starting to wake up.

Tim Fulton 28:31Other than those... I, I think of those as ground game things, right? I think focusing on individual groups of folks and, uh, g- even geographic areas are... That's strategy, right? Um, talk to me about the, the issues. You spoke earlier about doing some writing on opioids and on, uh, gun control. What are the other issues for... Which, which in my head are both... I'm gonna call them fairly new issues. 'Cause you talked about your legacy earlier. You talked about transit. I think about your, your work, um, in education. What are the other issues that you believe a Democratic candidate, whomever it ends up being, should be focusing on in Ohio in order to win?

Ted Strickland 29:21Uh, uh, obviously, healthcare is, is, is an issue that, it, it would probably be, be at the top of the list in any state or any community, near the top of the list. Um, I also think the environment i- is increasingly becoming, um, a, a, a top-tier issue, uh, just simply because of what's happening, um, i- in, in, in terms of, of weather conditions and disasters and 500 to 1,000-year events that are happening almost weekly. Um, education and, and the cost of education, um, is, you know, is a, is a big deal. I'm, I'm talking about what usually are referred to as kitchen table issues or-

Tim Fulton 30:07Right

Ted Strickland 30:08... bread and butter issues, um, the things that are... Let me tell you, before I came in this building, I was walking down the street, and I was looking in the windows, and I was seeing the TVs were on, and sports programs were on the TVs and all this kind of stuff, and you know what I was thinking? Most people aren't really tuned in to what's happening politically.

Tim Fulton 30:33Mm-hmm.

Ted Strickland 30:33They're, they're living their lives. They're, they're going to, you know, they're going to the movies, they're going to the sports events, they're, you know, en- engage with their kids, and so on and so forth. And I think some of us can live in a bubble, and, a- and, uh, uh, I mean, I, I watched hours of the impeachment hearing today, right? I don't think a lot of Americans did that or, or even perhaps even care about what happened there. So I think we've gotta, we've gotta get out of our i- individual and, and, uh, political bubbles and try to understand what life is like for average people. And, uh, so much of the rhetoric is, is boring and tiresome, and I'm just kind of sick of hearing it. Uh, I, I wish we could find, I wish we could find other ways of saying the things that are of value to us, rather than... Can I give you an example?

Tim Fulton 31:36Please.

Ted Strickland 31:37You hear a lot of talk about working families, right?

Tim Fulton 31:40Yeah.

Ted Strickland 31:40Yeah, working families. That's in, you know... So, um, during the Sha- uh, uh, Charlotte convention, I had a chance to speak to the convention.

Tim Fulton 31:51Yeah, the first night, right?

Ted Strickland 31:52Yes. And, um, and I was trying to say something about working families without just using those two tired words, and I wanted to say in my speech, "Families and people who actually work for a living." It's the same thing as working families, but I think it has a, a little different connotation. It's people who actually work for a living, and y- uh, uh, I was asked to change that phrase back to working families.

Tim Fulton 32:27Well, because there's- ... uh, uh, there's the Democ- there, the, the, the thing that Democrats can get hit for, right, is there's, there's folks who work and then there's folks who live off of the state, right?

Ted Strickland 32:40Absolutely.

Tim Fulton 32:41And that's why-

Ted Strickland 32:41And I was trying to make that distinction.

Tim Fulton 32:44Right.

Ted Strickland 32:44I think we ought to be a party that supports people who actually work for a living. That doesn't mean that the investor class are not worthy and, and there's anything wrong with them, but I don't think they really need our party like people who actually work for a living need our party to support them.

Tim Fulton 33:04I, I think that the investor class could make an argument that they need a party, because they perceive themselves to be hurt, right?

Ted Strickland 33:12They've got a party. It's called the Republican Party.

Tim Fulton 33:15That, uh, that, that's exactly right. Well, and, and now I'm just gonna start talking about, uh, um, actually I'm gonna stop myself and not talk about sort of the Big Ten, right? You ta- you spoke earlier about, or rather I asked you about who are the candidates that you like right now. Are there folks... I just wanna put a finer point on it. Are there folks in the current, uh, Democratic candidates for president that are speaking to issues that especially affect Ohio?

Ted Strickland 33:46Well, I think, uh, you know, I think, uh, most of them do.

Tim Fulton 33:51Okay.

Ted Strickland 33:52Um, you know, because they're all talking about healthcare, they're talking about education, they're talking about the environment, they're, you, you know, they're talking about, um, you know, uh, the rights of women. They're talking about the need for organized labor. I think all of them, um, uh, I mean, in my judgment there's not a whole lot of difference between the candidates. Um, you know, there, there may be, you know, some tweaks here and there, and so on and so forth, but, uh, uh, but, um, uh, I, I don't see a, a whole lot of difference. I just want someone who can win.

Tim Fulton 34:27I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Uh, I wanna be respectful of your time. Do you have time for a couple of questions-

Ted Strickland 34:34Of course

Tim Fulton 34:34... from the audience, and I s- Does anyone have a question for Governor Strickland that they would like to ask?

Audience Member 34:42Um, yeah, I was at the library a couple days ago and was stunned to see that there was a whole bookcase of books about the Trump presidency, both for and against. Uh, I don't remember that much printed material about Obama, although obviously there was some. Uh, and of course there were m- several of the books were duplicated copies, but, uh, uh, you, you talk about the general public, uh, i- ignoring the political situation. It certainly seems like, uh, the book reading part, or at least the library, what the library's trying to speak to the book reading public, they, there are a lot of books out there I, I've never seen before. Any comment on that?

Ted Strickland 35:23Well, just God bless the libraries. I think libraries are wonderful institutions, and let, just let me say that I think Ohio's public library system is the best in the nation by far, and that's because Ohio puts more state dollars into our libraries than any other state. I think the second state would be Hawaii, but we are multiple times, uh, o- over a- any other state in terms of our support for our public libraries. So support the libraries.

Audience Member 36:01Thank you.

Audience Member 36:02Hello, sir. My name's Aislinn. I was wondering if you have any thoughts on getting money out of politics. Um, there are multiple candidates who are saying they are not accepting donations from PACs, um, corporate PACs, and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that.

Ted Strickland 36:23Well, I think an ideal system in terms of our political campaigns would be, uh, public financing so that there would be, um, a, a level playing field. I don't think that's going to happen. Uh, th- there may be some constitutional issues, but even if there weren't, I think we are a long way from the public supporting, um, public financing of our campaigns. Although preventing one bad decision, um, would perhaps more than make up for all the money that would have to be spent to, uh, publicly finance our campaigns. For example, Senate Bill 6, or, or, or House Bill 6, which just passed here in Ohio, which I think is one of the grossest, uh, examples of corruption in our p- political system, you know, just gave a, a billion dollars to nuclear plants and coal plants, and they did it, if you really look at w- h- how that happened, you did it because, in my judgment, the money came in and, and, and, and i- influenced the outcome of that, um, that, uh, uh, th- that issue. So I think public financing in the long term would, uh, would save a lot of money.

Tim Fulton 37:39I just wanna drill down a little bit there more. How would... What would that look like? Because obviously folks have to get the word out, right? And so would it be public financing? Folks get more exposure to their audience based on their donors, right? They can buy more ads. They can be more places. They can open more offices. What would a public financing option look like? Every- But each party or candidate gets an equal pot of money?

Ted Strickland 38:15Um, well, it would have to be well thought out, and, and, and, and it would be, uh, obviously, uh, uh, a complicated system.

Tim Fulton 38:23Well, I-

Ted Strickland 38:24'Cause you, you would have to decide if it's gonna be just for federal candidates or if it's gonna be for statewide candidates, local candidates, and so on and so forth. But, but public financing is not something that, that has never been done or is not being done. Um-

Tim Fulton 38:38Absolutely. And I, I guess my, my curiosity is the, the current, uh... In order to qualify for the debate here in a couple minutes, candidates had to get a certain number of donors. It's been widely reported that they were spending more to acquire those donors-

Ted Strickland 38:56Of course, yeah

Tim Fulton 38:56... than those folks even donated. I believe that the Democratic Party doesn't think that collecting money should be the reason why folks get elected.

Ted Strickland 39:08Well, you know, we could have some free access to the media, obviously. Uh, i- it's, it's, it's not likely to happen. But for example, in Britain, there's a compressed period of time when, when campaigns can, can flourish and function and campaign.

Tim Fulton 39:27Right.

Ted Strickland 39:28Um, i- in this country, it's continuous. But, you know, you give me a candidate that says, "I'm not gonna take any money from anyone," you're gonna, uh... It's a candidate that's not gonna win. A- and, and, you know, and so, you know, it takes resources to be able to, to... Y- you don't, you don't agree with me?

Audience Member 39:47No.

Tim Fulton 39:47For those that are listening, I think that, you know, the woman who asked the question, is i- if it's fair to call you out for the sweatshirt you're wearing. Is that okay?

Ted Strickland 39:56Sure.

Tim Fulton 39:56She's wearing a Bernie sweatshirt. Bernie, uh, has proclaimed that he's not taking any PAC money, and I don't think that Governor Strickland is saying that somebody who's not taking any PAC money is the person that's not gonna win. I think what he's saying is he's the... If a person says, "I'm not gonna take any money," Bernie Sanders has raised more money than any other candidate that's currently in the field. Let's be absolutely clear about that. That's a, you know... A- and there's a reason for it, because he's energized the base and because he's made that one of his super core issues, right? So that's important to focus on as well. I think what Governor Strickland was trying to say is, you tell me somebody who's not trying to raise money is the candidate who's not gonna win.

Ted Strickland 40:41That's right.

Tim Fulton 40:41That's the clarity I was trying to bring to it.

Ted Strickland 40:43You've-

Tim Fulton 40:44Any other questions from the house?

Audience Member 40:49Why in Ohio are there no controls over what can be advertised on TV? The people supporting 6 blatantly lied, scandalized. I mean, it was, it was horrible, and nobody called them on it except their opponents. And The Dispatch, of course, runs the thing on the pro and con of each ad. But I find it abominable that there is no legislature in Ohio to prevent people from blatantly out and out lying, smearing. I mean, to listen to those ads, the people that were against 6 were, um, Bolsheviks, communists, baby murderers. I mean, you name it. They called them everything.

Tim Fulton 41:41And to be clear, this woman's ta- Just, I'm providing context for the audio later. Uh, this woman's talking about Issue 6 in the state of Ohio, which, uh, allowed for additional funding for, uh, traditional energy sources under the auspices of a green energy plan.

Ted Strickland 42:00Well, and it was, it was deceitful, and it was, it was, uh, false, and, um, a- and it was an example of corruption in our politics. Uh, they presented it as a green energy initiative, and yet they got rid of our renewable standards. You know, uh, in- interestingly, O- Ohio used to have a law that allowed a candidate, if they felt like they had been, uh, lied about, they could file a complaint and, um... But that law was declared unconstitutional by our Supreme Court. You know, it's, it's a free speech issue, I guess, and, um, the public has to beware. Can I give you an example of, of, of, um, I mean, I've had a lot of good things said about me in ads and a lot of bad things said about me in ads. But one of the things that really, really bothered me was when I was running for the Senate, you may have seen an ad that consisted of a gold toilet commode, and it was full of money, and money was going down the drain. And, and, and the message was, when Ted Strickland was governor, he spent, I think it was 300 and some thousand dollars to remodel his bathroom in the governor's residence.

Tim Fulton 43:23Governor Strickland, what really happened?

Ted Strickland 43:25When I moved in the governor's residence, my bathroom was a little old bathroom, an outdated bathroom, and the people who take care of the governor's residence said, "We need to remodel your bathroom." And I said, "No, you're not going to spend any money on my bathroom." So on a Thanksgiving weekend, my wife went to visit her family in Kentucky, and I went to Lowe's, and I used my own money, and I bought paint, and I painted that bathroom. And that's the only thing that was ever done in that bathroom. So where did they get this information about, you know, before Bob Taft, Governor Taft, my predecessor, left office, he had in his budget money to repair the roof on the governor's residence and to build public handicap accessible bathrooms. Because about 20,000 people a year visit the governor's residence, and they come from Cleveland and Toledo and all over. And there was no handicap accessible bathroom. And so those bathrooms were built not in the governor's residence, but in the building out back where the security staff stays. So people in Ohio thought because they were told that I spent 300 and some thousand dollars to remodel my bathroom. So, okay, what's the remedy for that? The remedy is you just try to get your message out and do the best you can to communicate the truth as you see it to the voting public. But it can get really tough. And just let me say this about political ads. And I've run a lot of political ads. In my judgment, political ads are not designed to inform or to educate. They're designed to make one candidate look really bad and another candidate to look really good. They are to manipulate the voting public. And that's the way it is. People have got to try to sort through that. But in order to put constraints on what can be said in an ad, I think would be very problematic when it comes to the constitutional right to free speech and self-expression.

Tim Fulton 45:55First of all, how dare you fix your own bathroom? I mean

Ted Strickland 46:00I bought that paint with my own money, for God's sake.

Tim Fulton 46:04I know. And you didn't even replace the toilet from what I hear.

Ted Strickland 46:08Can I just say something maybe in closing?

Tim Fulton 46:10Please.

Ted Strickland 46:10I don't want to give you a bad attitude about politics and campaigning.

Tim Fulton 46:15And that's the danger, right?

Ted Strickland 46:17So that's why I want to close this way. We do live, I believe, we're very blessed to live in this country with all of its flaws. And there are many. I want to tell you, I went to see the movie Harriet a couple of nights ago. And I said to my wife on the way home, you know, we got a lot to deal with. You know, we had slavery in this country for, what, well over 200 years. Think of that. And so it's easy for us to get all high and mighty about, you know, how noble we are. And we have made a lot of progress. But we've got a lot of additional progress to make. But it's our responsibility to try to make this country the very best that it can be. And I guess that's why you're here. You wouldn't be here if you felt otherwise. I'm a proud American. I love my country. But I try to be honest enough to know that we've got serious problems. And it's our responsibility to try to correct those problems and to improve life for every citizen. You know, we've got a homeless problem in Columbus, Ohio. In spite of all the incredible growth that we see, there's a lot of discrimination. Our schools aren't what they ought to be. There's a lot of work that needs to be done. And I guess what I'm saying is it's our responsibility to try to do it. And in spite of the obvious issues that some of us have expressed here tonight, you know, I'm hopeful for the future. I'm looking forward to 2020. And I want to celebrate on election night in 2020 and say, you know, we went through a period where it wasn't so nice, but we're back on track and we're going to move forward.

Tim Fulton 48:11Please give Governor Strickland a round of applause. Ted, thank you so much for your time. Seriously. Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite politician. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info at theconfluencecast.com. Special thanks this week to William Mount. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.