Doodles & Digits

Tim Fulton 00:08Welcome to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week: passions can take you on different paths. That's true for Caroline Farkas, who transformed her passion for teaching into a successful series on PBS. We sat down to discuss her journey, the future of education, the need for engaging and relevant learning experiences, and the importance of better communication and collaboration between parents, teachers, and the community as a whole. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Caroline Farkas, the creator and host of Doodles and Digits, a math learning show. Caroline, how are you?

Caroline Farkas 01:06I'm great. How about you?

Tim Fulton 01:07I'm doing well. Tell us about Doodles and Digits.

Caroline Farkas 01:10So, Doodles and Digits — we are a company that tries to make math more engaging for students. The show itself, Doodles and Digits, how it's math is, we go behind the scenes of different industries and share with students when they're going to actually be using the math they're learning in class, in the real world, in different industries and different career opportunities.

Tim Fulton 01:30So, like the people that make the argument that Algebra Two shouldn't be taught, and people should be taught how to do their taxes — but really, actually, Algebra Two is taxes. Like, that's...

Caroline Farkas 01:40Yeah. Because when I was in the classroom, my students would ask me all the time, like, "When are we ever going to use this?" And I love upper-elementary math, because it's actual math that you're gonna use pretty much every single day.

Tim Fulton 01:50Yeah. So let's get back to that. You started as a teacher?

Caroline Farkas 01:55Yes. I was a fourth-grade math teacher in Worthington for seven years, and I loved it. Having those relationships with students was great. But during the pandemic — obviously we're hybrid, remote, and in-person, all of the different modalities — I couldn't find any math videos to help my students, or even the parents, to be honest, when they're helping their students at home for math. So I decided to create my own. And that's kind of how Doodles and Digits came to be.

Tim Fulton 02:23And so is it your job-job now? Okay. Yep. And it's on PBS. Is it on the air, or just online?

Caroline Farkas 02:32So it's everything. It's on the app, it's on pbs.org, and then it's also showing across the entire country, just depending on what station, and when it's showing it, and things like that.

Tim Fulton 02:42And you've done some additional sort of content generation too, right? There's additional, I think, worksheets or different graphics that you have available for folks to use.

Caroline Farkas 02:51So we have a YouTube channel that not only has the show, but we have a lot of how-to videos. So, for example, how to find equivalent fractions, math puzzles, things like that. As far as PBS goes, we're also going to be on PBS LearningMedia this summer, which is going to have lesson plans and worksheets to go along with all of the different segments of the show, for teachers that they can use in the class, and even parents too, if they want something that their student can kind of follow along with at home.

Tim Fulton 03:16Okay, so talk to me about — so you have the idea of, "I want to create these things." You were talking, before we came on the air, that you learned how to animate. Because — and I actually, admittedly, have watched one of the full videos, right — but you are an animated character and the host as well. Why did you learn to animate to do it? Or was it a passion of yours?

Caroline Farkas 03:42I've always been into art. There was a fork in the road back in high school, if I wanted to go into animation or teaching, and I chose teaching. And now, kind of great, I get to do both. So I've always drawn things — you can ask my students, I used to draw, like, big pictures on the chalkboard and stuff, just to get students engaged. So once I decided that I wanted to create a show, I was trying to think back on all the things that I knew my students loved, things that engage students, and things that kept coming up were animated characters. And so I decided, "You know what, I have the skill set. I can learn anything." I tell my students, "If you put your mind to it, you can learn anything." So I learned how to animate, and that's kind of where we're at.

Tim Fulton 04:20And talk to me about the business side of it. You made, like — I don't know, a pilot, or — how did you start pitching that, like, "This is a resource that should be used"? And then how do you monetize it?

Caroline Farkas 04:35Yeah, so I actually started on YouTube. I made a lot of videos, and I specifically made sure I was making videos that I knew, like, "These videos students need, teachers can't find." We gained a lot of traction on that — like, over 100 different countries have watched my videos, they're getting assigned a lot in classrooms. And I started thinking, "What else do teachers need?" They need those real-life examples, because at the end of the day, we need to be showing students how they're going to be using what we're learning in class. So I talked to a lot of different businesses in the area, and it was like, "Hey, would you like to be on my YouTube channel?" And I first pitched it to them, "I'm a local teacher, I've got my tripod, my camera, can you just be on my YouTube channel?" And once I started recording them, I realized, like, "This is something really special. More students obviously need to see this." And I know I grew up on PBS, I was a PBS kid. So it's like, "Okay, so how do I get on PBS?" So I Googled it, I figured out the steps, I applied. I sent a pilot to the National Educational Telecommunications Association, or NETA for short. They accepted it, and they are the ones who can distribute it to PBS and all of the different stations, because there's actually over 300 PBS stations. They accepted it. And then, typically, the next step is you get an underwriter or a sponsor — which I'm sure you've seen before, on PBS, like, "This show is provided in part by viewers like you," right? So Scotts Miracle-Gro actually is my underwriter for season one. They loved what I was doing. I reached out and I said, "Hey, would you be interested in partnering?" And so they sponsored my first season.

Tim Fulton 06:19And local connection, obviously. So, is there anyone else we should be giving credit to for these hats that you're wearing? Because I just want to walk through them, right — content creator, animator, voiceover, I assume the camera work, the editor as well, and the salesperson, and basically producer, for lack of a better term. Sorry — that is producing. Not for lack of a better term, that is producing. What was surprising to you going through that process? Like, is it one of those things — as I started doing event planning in my 20s, you sort of learn very quickly, like, "Oh, there's a lot of steps here, but there's no steps that anybody's gonna tell me. I just have to get it done."

Caroline Farkas 07:12You have to get it done. I think you have to figure out the right questions to ask. And also, you just have to have that tenacity, like, you have to keep going. I always joke, you have to get really good at rejections. You might ask 100 people, "Hey, you want to do this math YouTube show?" And, you know, 90 of them might be like, "No, why would I want to be —" or just not reply. Exactly. So it's just — I always knew that I wanted to do something for students, and just to keep going. And I kept telling myself, "Okay, I tell my students, you can do whatever you put your mind to. Now I need to show up and do what I said that I wanted to." And yeah, I am wearing a lot of hats, and I've learned a lot in the past couple years.

Tim Fulton 07:52Well, so did you end up basically transitioning away — sorry, and I'm reading between the lines here — that it was sort of the pandemic, that you were like, "I don't know that I want to do this forever anymore"?

Caroline Farkas 08:07Yeah, so it was a couple things. I was in the classroom still a year after the pandemic. But I also had two little boys, two under two at the time. So it was kind of a combination of a lot of things. Everything was still shut down, I had an infant and a one-year-old, I still wanted to teach. And it was one of those decisions where I knew that I wanted to make a big difference and still be in education. And so I kind of just took the leap, and I said, "Okay, I'm going to do this." And that's kind of what happened.

Tim Fulton 08:37So you were able to — I assume there was a partner involved as well, right, that you were able to, like, "Hey, I've got a target to take this time and I'm gonna grow this business." And, you know, bless them for that. So, talk through the research, the content generation. You referenced sort of filling gaps, like, "This is the stuff that wasn't there."

Caroline Farkas 09:04Yeah. So my show, and all of my videos, we start with the actual learning standard that students are learning in class. I was kind of finding, when I was trying to find resources as a teacher, they were either really entertaining videos, and then there were videos that were teaching the core concept — which I'm sure you've seen those, so dry, someone just writing on a whiteboard, nothing engaging. So I'm like, "Okay, we're gonna start with the standard, to make sure we're teaching the students what they need to know, and then we're going to add those engagement pieces." And I've got my master's, I love research. So I make sure I dive into the research, like, "What is engaging students? What is the best time length for videos?" Most of the research shows 10 minutes or less. So all of my shows are, to get them to watch it and be engaged the whole time, and to get the content out of those videos. So, for example, my show, it's around 30 minutes, but I purposely have broken it into three, like, 10-minute segments or less. So then teachers can show just one segment, and then actually have them doing an activity or game, or things like that, afterwards.

Tim Fulton 10:13But the full length of it is basically because PBS airs 30-minute-long things.

Caroline Farkas 10:19Yeah. And on my YouTube channel, it's the shorter segments. And then, as well as PBS LearningMedia, it'll be all the 10-minute-or-less segment chunks with all of the lesson plans.

Tim Fulton 10:30Can I ask nerdy questions about contracting and who owns what, and all that? So you have the YouTube content that — no one's actually underwriting that, or are they?

Caroline Farkas 10:43No, that's all me. And, obviously, YouTube ad generation — you get revenue from that.

Tim Fulton 10:43Even for kids' stuff?

Caroline Farkas 10:43Even for kids' stuff. It's not the same amount as, like, MrBeast or someone like that, but you still do get ad revenue.

Tim Fulton 10:59So then the stuff that goes on PBS — does it only go on PBS?

Caroline Farkas 11:04No. So I own all the rights to everything. And that's how a lot of other PBS shows you might be familiar with are as well, like Fred Rogers Productions and things like that. PBS doesn't usually own the rights to that show. So, Sesame Street — I think there were a lot of people upset years ago, or whatever, and they actually show, I think, their episodes first on HBO now, and then they go to PBS. So yeah, I own — my production company technically owns all of the rights.

Tim Fulton 11:35But they are licensing it — they're licensing it by virtue of the sponsorship? Is that...

Caroline Farkas 11:43Yeah. So basically — I think that's kind of a misconception, I talked to a lot of the public-media people about this — is like, you think, on PBS, they're paying for a lot of the content, and they aren't. A lot of the content is either sponsored by someone like Scotts Miracle-Gro, or you might see these large federal grants, like the National Science Foundation, or things like that. That's how production companies get the funding to make something for public television.

Tim Fulton 12:11Got it. And so, sorry, this is my niche, right? The Scotts Miracle-Gro is paying PBS, and PBS is paying you? Or someone like Scotts Miracle-Gro just pays you, but there's some three-party agreement that what you're doing is for...

Caroline Farkas 12:32Basically, Scotts Miracle-Gro, it's like the ad slot, the 15-second ads. But before — PBS pays me, there are the — and PBS, that's how they know that production companies are going to be able to make shows. And then I give all my rights, my show, for like the next three years. And it's non-exclusive, so I could give it to Netflix or others.

Tim Fulton 12:56They have the ability to air it, but it's a non-exclusive license.

Caroline Farkas 12:59For three years. And, for example, Scotts knew, "Hey, this is a great show, we want to make sure that children are getting this across the country, we believe in this, we will absolutely pay for this 15-second ad slot beforehand." And I talk to them all the time, they're wonderful, to get this content out to students across the country.

Tim Fulton 13:19Got it. So did you have to draft the contract with them?

Caroline Farkas 13:23Oh, no, I have lawyers for that. I wear a lot of hats, but I know not to wear those hats.

Tim Fulton 13:30That makes sense. And so then — how long have you been doing it? Forgive me for not knowing.

Caroline Farkas 13:36So this is my third year.

Tim Fulton 13:40Okay. Talk about — do you have growth plans, and, like, what's next? Full disclosure, it was a PR person that reached out to me for the interview, so, like, you're obviously in growth mode.

Caroline Farkas 13:50Yeah. So I have really big plans. We're going to start filming season two this summer. I have a lot of companies interested in being featured, I have a lot of companies interested just to be involved. So we're going to start filming season two. But from a company standpoint, I really do want to grow. I think there's something special where you're taking education and adding the entertainment on top of it — and not just thinking about entertainment. Especially in today's world, there's a lot of noise out there for students to watch. So I am growing my team, I want to hire some editors. I would eventually love to have a full-blown production company, with animators, editors on staff, that we can create a lot of great educational content, not only for teachers, but for families and kids as well.

Tim Fulton 14:37Frankly, I mean — do not tell me what the final number is, but do the economics work? Like, is it sort of, "I've got to definitely get a commitment for a second season, and that's going to allow for me to hire an editor"? Are those the spreadsheets you're looking at?

Caroline Farkas 14:55Right. So the numbers are good. And edutainment is technically the industry, and the industry is really booming right now. And I think it's because there is such a need for at-home learning. Teachers have enough on their plates, they're trying to find good-quality content to actually give to parents and students. So the numbers are there. I definitely, though — since it's been me this whole time — I'm open, if anyone — I'm thinking about maybe taking on investors, or things like that, as well. Just, listeners. Yeah. So if anyone is looking to invest in an edutainment company, those are options we're looking at as well. And we are working with some people at OSU, we're looking at some federal grants, so we can actually do a lot of research with math learning, with video, which is amazing. We drafted some grants up, so we're hopeful that we're gonna go.

Tim Fulton 15:47And that's not just with OSU, that's, like, actual — the Education Department?

Caroline Farkas 15:51Oh yeah. And big community partners, because this is something that I think is such a need, and a lot of people are seeing that. We're hoping to make a change bigger than just a show. We want to actually have data and research say, "Hey, this is how you can teach math online, these are engaging, this is a reliable resource for your student at that age."

Tim Fulton 16:14So let's go back to the pandemic a little bit. I think, other than how we meet with each other and interact, the biggest change — sorry, the biggest and the quickest change that everybody did — was educating kids online exclusively, right? And not all of it changed, similar to how we meet with each other. I am physically in an office with people, and we still meet on Zoom. Like, we can have lunch together and all that stuff, but I've got everything I need here. And if there's a third party, why would we be in a conference room on Zoom? Why not just have everybody be on Zoom? Education, whereas, like, my now-fourth-grade daughter — she's got her Chromebook, and if she misses school for anything, whether it be sick or, like, a ballet rehearsal, they're like, "Okay, you need to do this much of i-Ready, you need to do this, and you need to check these boxes." Which, to an extent, is state standards, right, but also, this is more efficient, and they've demonstrated how well that can work. And, frankly, at the beginning, I was like, "Is she learning?" And, like, tests say yes. Do you have an opinion about, like, do you think that's good? Is that something we should be leaning into? I guess I probably know the answer, because that's what you do, but...

Caroline Farkas 17:50I think it's a combination. I mean, I am firmly a believer that teachers will never be able to be replaced, because — as someone who was in the classroom myself — they have that ability to see each student as an individual and tailor the lesson, and truly know what that group of students needs. I think the video component online is a great tool, just like anything else, and especially — I know for parents, or even intervention, or that extra scoop of, like, "Hey, you didn't get it this first time, we'll have a different strategy." Because I struggled even in the classroom — like, the students that sometimes struggled the most in math, the videos that they might need to watch to review the concept one, two, even three more times were so boring. Like, they're gonna hate math even more when I'm giving them these videos that aren't engaging, aren't fun. And then, if they hate math, they're obviously not going to want to succeed in it. So I think it's just giving teachers additional tools to teach. But obviously, I think education, EdTech, that whole industry — it's helping teachers make sure that they're meeting all of their students' needs, instead of just having to do it all themselves.

Tim Fulton 18:57And this question is for the investors: do you see the company as, it's going to continue being edutainment? Or is it going to become an EdTech company and sort of get into apps, different, like, flashcards that interact with the camera on your phone, and all that sort of stuff? Or, like, what's the vision?

Caroline Farkas 19:24I think it could be both, to be honest. I actually — I don't know if you know what ISTE is, it's, like, the biggest EdTech conference in the country. I'm speaking this year, actually, at ISTE. So, right now, my videos are being used on a lot of different platforms, like Edpuzzle and Google Classroom. You can see in the analytics, like, most of my views, teachers are like, "This is a video, is this embedded? We need to embed this," and students are watching it. So I definitely think we're gonna start with edutainment, but I think it's one of those things — like, obviously, all these other big companies, Netflix, things like that, they've come up with their own platform and are having different algorithms and things like that. Right now, I think we're focusing on the content. But I could definitely see, in the future, it going toward creating more than just videos, to make sure that we're truly meeting the needs of teachers and students.

Tim Fulton 20:14So you're not necessarily going to, like, have a doll of your animated version of yourself. Or maybe you will.

Caroline Farkas 20:20Have a math chicken. So we might have, like, a stuffed math chicken, you know.

Tim Fulton 20:25And do you think you're gonna stay in this? Upper-elementary math feels specific, right?

Caroline Farkas 20:31Yeah, we're gonna definitely stay there for right now, because I think that's where there's such a need. And there are so many people, I think, that have math anxiety, or fear of math, that we haven't done what we need to do in that area. But, like I said, if we keep expanding — I have a lot of teacher friends who are like, "We need things for younger kids," or even people in other subjects besides math. I'm open to it, but we're — for right now...

Tim Fulton 20:57Do you have enough work to do?

Caroline Farkas 20:57Yes.

Tim Fulton 20:57That's fair. And Columbus has a character in this show too, right? Like, the folks that you're interviewing — like, make me happy — and, like, I think a chiropractor that was here in Columbus. Do you intend on keeping it homegrown?

Caroline Farkas 21:16Yes, we're also open to expanding, but I've been born and raised in the Columbus area. So it's one of those things — there's so much in Columbus, and there are so many companies that are coming to Columbus, that we could have an endless amount of episodes just on how different people use math. So the majority of episodes probably will be in Columbus. But I'm also open to — we might try to travel some places, like NASA or things like that, just depending on who wants to be on the show, and then what math. Obviously, not everything is in Columbus. We can show other places.

Tim Fulton 21:51Absolutely. What can people find on your website? What resources are available to be utilized?

Caroline Farkas 21:58Yeah, so there are a lot of different things on my website. Obviously, there are the videos, but we also have a lot of blog posts with really great information about, for example, the best picture books for place value, or what you should be asking during parent-teacher conferences to get the most out of it, specifically for math. So there is a ton of resources for parents and teachers there. And we also have things like math coloring books, worksheets that go along with the videos. Really, it's a wealth of knowledge for parents and teachers.

Tim Fulton 22:27Got it. What are you shooting with? Like, what camera?

Caroline Farkas 22:30So I started with an iPhone, and now I have a...

Tim Fulton 22:34Okay. Like a DSLR, or...

Caroline Farkas 22:38A mirrorless.

Tim Fulton 22:38Got it. Okay.

Caroline Farkas 22:38Yeah. And then everything with the whole Adobe Suite.

Tim Fulton 22:46Adobe Suite. Okay. Fair. What do you edit with? We — well, there are two iPhones currently in the room, and then Reaper for audio. But since we started doing video, with Final Cut Pro, because it merges these and those so easily. And then I actually edit the video first, and just transfer that to an audio file. But yeah, I mix these two different channels together first, because you're gonna end up being quieter than I am. So, yeah.

Caroline Farkas 23:17Lovely mixing. Yeah, that's good. I've done a lot of that too recently.

Tim Fulton 23:21I end every interview with the same two questions. What do you think Columbus is doing well? And what do you think Columbus is maybe not doing so well? It does not have to be in the purview of your work. Sometimes it's almost better if it's not.

Caroline Farkas 23:35Okay. I think what Columbus is doing well is — I mean, it's a really great place to raise a family. I've got two sons. Every weekend, I feel like there's something going on, like this weekend's the arts festival. And it's growing, and it's exciting to see a lot of these companies come in, and just how much it's grown, and it's changing.

Tim Fulton 24:03And the second question is something that could — but maybe it's not doing so well, or it's not doing — could do better, doesn't do well...

Caroline Farkas 24:10I guess kind of two-part. I feel like there are a lot of companies moving in, and I think there are a lot of great resources out there for parents and teachers — this is kind of in my sector — but I don't know about the communication or the collaboration between the two. Because even as someone who taught in the classroom for, like, seven years, over the past couple years I've learned about all these awesome resources even within Columbus, and I had no idea as a teacher that you could be exposing... Yeah, exactly. So, just helping families connect with those resources. And then also, driving here — I would say public transit, because we don't have much of that. And I just think about other larger cities, that traffic's sometimes a little crazy.

Tim Fulton 24:51It is a common refrain. Yes. Caroline, thanks so much for your time.

Caroline Farkas 24:55Thank you so much for having me.

Tim Fulton 25:07Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite entertainer. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Phil Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.