Development in the City of Worthington

Tim Fulton 0:12Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, we're discussing the city of Worthington and some of the impending changes that you'll see there. Columbus Underground reporter Brent Warren sat down with the city's economic development director and assistant city manager, David McCorkle, and Worthington city manager, Matt Greeson, to discuss the developments coming to Worthington and how they've evolved over time, how they navigate the varying interests in the city as they implement their strategic plan, and the challenges with servicing diverse communities with limited resources. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, The Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored this week by the Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission, or MORPC, featuring stories about local and regional partners that envision and embrace innovative directions in economic prosperity, transportation, sustainability, and an inclusive central Ohio. MORPC's transformative programming, innovative services, and public policy initiatives are designed to promote and support the vitality and growth in the region. For more information, please visit morpc.org. Enjoy the interview.

Brent Warren 1:55Okay. I'm here with David McCorkle, the economic development manager for the city of Worthington. Hi, David.

David McCorkle 2:01Hi. How are you?

Brent Warren 2:02I'm doing good. Thanks for being here today with us.

David McCorkle 2:05Thanks for having me.

Brent Warren 2:06Uh, so I, you know, I'm looking forward to have a good conversation about development and kinda planning for the future in Worthington, and how that, how what's happening in Worthington sort of fits into the bigger regional picture. Um, but I wanted to start, maybe you could tell me a little bit about your background, how long you've been at the city of Worthington, and how you ended up there, what kinda things you did before that.

David McCorkle 2:30No, absolutely. Um, so I'm David McCorkle. I'm the, uh, economic development director for the city of Worthington, and as of, uh, three days ago, I'm actually the assistant city manager as well. Um, so I-

Brent Warren 2:43Congratulations.

David McCorkle 2:44Thank you. Uh, I've, I've been, I've been with the city almost five years. Uh, and previous to that, I actually worked for the state of Ohio, uh, with the Department of Development. Uh, so worked very closely with JobsOhio and, uh, what is now the Deve- Development Services Agency with the state of Ohio, uh, working on a, a wide array of things from grants, loans, tax credits, as well as their small business development centers, uh, and, and several of the, the, uh, Third Frontier programs as well. Um, so I, I spent some time doing that, uh, and then jumped at the opportunity to join the local, local government ranks, uh, about five years ago, uh, helping the city of Worthington with their economic development efforts.

Brent Warren 3:22Great. So, um, I cover development, transportation, and neighborhoods for Columbus Underground, and, uh, you probably know we focus a lot on downtown and the kinda urban neighborhoods, but we do try and keep up with the bigger projects in, uh, different suburban communities around Columbus. And I'm kinda mentioning that for two reasons. One is that I'm probably not up to date on absolutely everything that's happening in Worthington, so I'll rely on you to kinda fill me in a little bit. But the other reason is, uh, there's two big ones that, two big development proposals that have come up recently that I have covered that I definitely wanna, I wanna talk about today. So the first one, and I'm hoping you can give me kind of a brief overview of this one just to start out with, is The Shops at Worthington Place. Um, some people know it as Worthington Mall. Uh, there's a big proposal, uh, that I believe is just starting to work its way through your process. Is that, is that right?

David McCorkle 4:25That, that's correct. Yeah.

Brent Warren 4:26Yeah. Um, can you tell us a little bit, just sort of the big picture on that one? We don't need to get too, uh, deep into the details, but what, what are they proposing for that one?

David McCorkle 4:35Sure. So, uh, The Shops at Worthington Place, uh, most people know it as the Worthington Mall for, for nostalgic reasons, uh, has been proposed, uh, by a new ownership group as High North. So High North is the name of the project. Um, they are pro- what they're proposing is to actually, uh, demolish about 125,000 square feet, so roughly 70% of the existing mall space. Uh, and they would replace that with a mix of uses. Um, what would stay in place is, uh, approximately 50,000 square feet of, of restaurant space that is doing pretty well right now on the east side of the Worthington Mall. So it faces the, the Kroger there. Um, and then what would be, uh, demolished is the western side of the mall and, uh, potentially as a phase two, the southern side of the mall. Um, what is being proposed, uh, is, is actually, uh, a mix of uses. Uh, phase, they're splitting it into two phases. So phase one is, uh, being proposed as an eight to 10 story Class A office building. It would be, uh, 100 to 125,000 square feet of space, so a little bit of that is dependent on demand in the marketplace. Um, but it's act- what's unique, uh, for this building is, uh, it will actually be a four to five story office building on top of a four to five story parking deck. Uh, so, uh, redevelopment is challenging, and Worthington has a limited amount of, uh, space for redevelopment. Uh, and so what the, uh, new property own- owners, uh, Direct Retail Partners, are proposing is that we actually utilize the land that we have by having, uh, four to five stories of parking deck with four to five stories of office on top of it

Brent Warren 6:26W- would that be the tallest building in Worthington?

David McCorkle 6:29That would be the tallest building in Worthington. So currently, the tallest building in Worthington is six stories. Uh, it is The Heights apartment building, which is directly adjacent to the-

Brent Warren 6:38Oh, right

David McCorkle 6:39... location. Um, so current zoning, uh, our current plan actually calls for five to six stories in this location, so this would certainly push, uh, push the, um, the, the top end of the height, uh, boundary that we have now. Um, but we are encouraged by the feedback we've received thus far from, from city council, from the planning commission, from the community, primarily because if you're going to have density and you're going to have height, uh, being right on I-270, uh, is probably where you wanna have it in the Worthington area, uh, less, uh, less than downtown Worth- Worthington.

Brent Warren 7:15Mm-hmm.

David McCorkle 7:16Um, so the feedback's been great so far. So phase one would just be the, the office building. Uh, if that is successful, what they are planning to do and what they're proposing right now and trying to seek approval for is both a phase one and phase two. Phase two would have a second eight to 10 story office building, a hotel, and then another three to four restaurants, uh, included as well. So a pretty, uh, um, a pretty great opportunity for the city of Worthington to add some class A office space that we don't currently have, as well as some, some amenities that some of our existing businesses have, have, uh, have asked for to help attract and retain their employees.

Brent Warren 7:58Hmm. Um, I think it's interesting 'cause it's something that we are seeing all over the place, where you have malls, kind of the traditional mall. A lot of them are struggling, and struggling even more now with the coronavirus pandemic, and this is an example of something we're seeing other places also of kinda redeveloping those malls. Um, is this something that the city of Worthington was specifically looking for, like the office component in particular, or did the developer bring that to you and say, "This is what we think will work there"?

David McCorkle 8:33So the developer, uh, h- started having conversations with the city prior to purchasing the site. They, they acquired the site in December of 2019. Uh, but the city was very, uh, clear upfront that income tax revenue was something that we were looking to generate as a result of any redevelopment project. W- uh, the city of Worthington un- uh, you know, not unlike many of our neighboring communities, is heavily dependent on income tax revenue for our budget. Approximately 74% of our, our b- budget comes from income tax revenue.

Brent Warren 9:06And you're also, just to point out, you're landlocked, right? So there's no more ... Is there any, like, undeveloped land in Worthington?

David McCorkle 9:16Uh, we have one site, uh, that is, uh, what we consider a greenfield in Worthington, and it's the United Methodist Children's Home site. Um, but-

Brent Warren 9:23Oh, we'll get to that. Yes.

David McCorkle 9:24I'm sure, I'm sure we, I'm sure we will get to that. Um, so that is the only green space that we truly have for, uh, for true development, not redevelopment purposes, and so it was very important that, uh, if we have a struggling mall, and it, there, there is no doubt that it is a struggling mall, um, that we were going to take this as an opportunity to infuse it with some uses that g- generate both income tax revenue for the s- for the city and property tax revenue for the schools. Uh, but also we're going to add some neighborhood amenities that our citizens and our neighboring businesses, uh, need in order to, uh, to, you know, stay relevant and stay competitive.

Brent Warren 10:06And you're ... When you say amenities, you're talking about, like, a public space or restaurants or what?

David McCorkle 10:11Uh, yeah. Yeah, public space and lifestyle amenities like restaurants.

Brent Warren 10:14Yeah.

David McCorkle 10:14So we, we, uh, we have a couple restaurants that do well at the mall. Uh, but what we've heard from some of our, uh, uh, neighboring businesses is that they need things for their employees to do. They need em- places for their employees to go and to eat at, uh, both during the day but also in the evening, and so this provides some of those opportunities. Uh, we also, um, don't have a hote- uh, we don't have a hotel presence in Worthington, and so phase two would, uh, provide a hotel, and we have heard from several of our, uh, larger employers that that is something that, that could be very important to them as opposed to sending those, those rooms to, uh, to Crosswoods or Polaris or Dublin.

Brent Warren 10:58Mm-hmm. What do you think? 'Cause when I first heard about this proposal, my first thought was, I mean, I understand the need for office space and f- for your own finances for the city, definitely. But at this point in time, it seems like the future is pretty uncertain when it comes to office space in general, and trying to predict in two years or whenever this project might be finished, is there gonna be that kinda demand for that much office space? Are you worried about that? Are you comfortable with moving forward in that direction?

David McCorkle 11:35Well, that's a great question. Um, a- and I think a lot of, lot of folks are trying to answer that question. Um, we are, uh, we are confident that there is demand in the market right now for, uh, for class A office space in Worthington. Uh, what I will say is we're confident, uh, in the, in the demand for at least the phase one portion of this. Uh, we, we've, uh, we've already, uh, heard from, from the broker on this property that there is quite a bit of interest. Um, I, I don't think, I don't think we fully know what the coronavirus and work- the remote working and the work from home, uh, what that impact is gonna be a year, two years, five years from now. Um, what I do know is Worthington lacks class A office space, and because of our geographic location, I think we also cater to the rem- the remote workers and the businesses looking for part of their workforce to work remotely. Uh, we are very centrally located, and as a result of that A, an employer or a, a business looking for class A office space may look to Worthington as a good opportunity for their employees to spend half the time in the office or half the time at home, uh, because we are so centrally located to the workforce itself. So we, uh-

Brent Warren 12:48Right

David McCorkle 12:48... we also only have 23,000 square feet of class A office space right now. Uh, we ha- so we have very, very little class A office space, and we, we have had demand, pent-up demand for multiple years, folks looking for class A office space in Worthington. And so we're hopeful that, that, uh, that we position this property in a way that, uh, it does fill over the next, you know, 12, 24 months and that it's pre-leased. The developer also isn't going to construct this building speculative, so they are looking for at least 50% pre-lease before the building goes up. So we're, we're hedging a little bit on that.

Brent Warren 13:27Mm-hmm. So you already mentioned the United Methodist Children's Home site. Um, I- we've done a series of these podcasts, and they're sponsored by Mid Ohio Planning Commission, and so we talk a lot about those issues of sort of, um, the Insight 2050 initiative and the corridor plans that are happening now, and basically this idea that they're looking at growth in the region and how can we direct that growth toward more established corridors, you know, for a lot of reasons, but one of them is so we don't continue to sprawl outward in a unsusta- unsustainable way. Um, so I think in each of these podcasts, I've talked to, uh, several different people. I've actually brought up that site 'cause I just feel like it's almost a perfect example of what those plans are talking about. I mean, it's, uh, I- primed for dense- denser development. It's on a major transit corridor. I mean, in Columbus, High Street is probably at this point the best that we have. Um, it's walkable to the historic town center of Worthington. It's also walkable to, like, these thriving neighborhoods, all these, uh, you know, historic and, uh, established neighborhoods in Worthington. And there's also, you know, there's office, there's other commercial development all right around there. So I mean, that's how I've looked at it, and there's been a history of people trying to develop it, and I've covered it a little bit, but, um, my question for you from the city's perspective, um, how do you view this site? I mean, am I, uh, placing a little too much importance on it, or is it really that key? I mean fr- from the city's perspective, is it really important that it gets developed in a kind of significant way?

David McCorkle 15:16Uh, it's a good question. So I, I knew this one would come up. Um, it has been a, uh, let's say, controversial site, uh, for the city for the last several years. We've received, uh, multiple, uh, uh, a diverse amount of interest in, in, in this site. Um, with that said, our, our comp plan does call for a, for a mix of uses and is looking to, to activate and create some vibrancy, uh, along this portion of High Street. It's an amazing site. It's very centrally located. Uh, and for that reason, we do have, um, competing interest in this site. Um, you may or may not know that, uh, there has been an effort for, uh, an effort for a portion of, uh, a p- a large portion of the site to be preserved for park, um, if not all of it. But there, there are competing, competing interest on this site, every- everything from park to, uh, what we received, uh, two weeks ago from LC as a, a pretty, uh, dense proposal for the development of that site. Um, we're early in that process, and so we're not, uh ... We're soliciting feedback at this time. Um, you know, I, I, I think we're still reviewing everything, and we, we need to make sure that, uh, that site, uh, is striking a b- whatever is done on that site is striking a balance, um, between residential, office, green space. Um, we know what, a- as Matt, Matt is well aware, what, what MORPC and Insight f- 2050 is calling for. Um, and we're, we're confident that most people in the community would, would agree that we need to be deliberate, uh, uh, of, of all competing interests, uh, and making sure that we're, we're taking those into account, um, going forward. Matt, do you wanna ... I, I touched on the, the, the peripheral about the UMCH site, but, uh, do you wanna talk about how that is our last, uh, green development opportunity and how we are going to strike a balance? 'Cause what Brent was talking about and touching on was, you know, this, this, this could be an opportunity to, to check a lot of those boxes that Insight 2050 is calling for with density and centralized location and affordability on housing. Um, Brent, I'm sorry I'm speaking for you, but if you've got anything to add.

Brent Warren 17:39Yeah, yeah. No, that's it. And I know, Matt, you've, uh, you had some involvement with MORPC, right? You were the, the representative for Worthington for MORPC?

Matt Greeson 17:50Yeah, and I was a chair for, a chair of MORPC-

Brent Warren 17:52Oh

Matt Greeson 17:52... for a couple of years as well.

Brent Warren 17:54Right.

Matt Greeson 17:54Um, chair-

Brent Warren 17:54So you're very familiar with, with the-

Matt Greeson 17:56Yeah

Brent Warren 17:56... Insight 2050 and the corridor-

Matt Greeson 17:58Yeah

Brent Warren 17:58... plans. And I was just saying that I, I always bring up the, the Methodist site because it just seems so perfect when you look at those plans and how they suggest the kind of sites that are ripe for denser development. It just seems to check all those boxes. Um, do you wanna speak a little bit to that and what the city's perspective on it and hope for it is moving forward?

Matt Greeson 18:23Yeah. I mean, ob- obviously, uh, David I think highlighted that it's a, a context sensitive site. Um, well, let me say this, first of all. Brent, thank you for having me and-

Brent Warren 18:33Sure

Matt Greeson 18:33... my name is Matt Greeson, and I'm the city manager of the city of Worthington. So yeah, it's, uh, it's an amazing site, right? It's, uh, right in the central to the community, right across from our municipal building, and, uh, there's not much land left like that, uh, in- in- inside of 2- 270 that pose the, the kinda, uh, uh, special potential that it, it has. Um, for the listeners, it's obviously... it's a former institutional orphanage site, um, uh, still zoned mostly institutional except for the front 10 acres that's commercial. And so it's been a strategic focus area, 'cause we could see for a long time that it was likely gonna, uh, face development pressure and be an opportunity for us. And you're right-

Brent Warren 19:17And it's, just to, um, interject to take us back a step, it is mostly green space now, right?

Matt Greeson 19:24Yeah, it's actually, uh, yes. It ha- It's predominantly green space, um, and some ol- older buildings that were, uh, formerly used, um, uh, when the Methodist Children's Home was, um... I mean, they're an active going social service concern, but they, uh, when they had residential housing for, uh, were in that business, um, uh, on that site, there's some buildings left from that that are no longer used. Um, and, uh, there's a long-term land lease with a senior care facility. But other than that, it's mostly, uh, an opportunity for redevelopment. Um, and it's got this, uh, you know, it's High Street facing, it's got a great neighborhood behind it that's established, and it's got some natural features that are pretty cool as well. And so it, it has a lot of attributes. Um, um, and so, uh, our comprehensive plan certainly calls for a mix of uses. Um, and we think it's appropriate to have, uh, more activity up on High Street, um, and certainly activate the High Street frontage, uh, and, uh, and have something, as David, uh, said, that's balanced, that's also sensitive to the, the nearby, uh, neighborhoods, um, or the adjacent neighborhood. So yeah, it, it, it has an opportunity to be one of those great infill development sites, um, that has really good meaningful park space that's an attribute for the community and also kinda central to development, activates High Street, which is, uh, you know, and, um, and provides a little bit of a density and office and a mixed use on High Street, but then also kind of be sensitive to the existing neighborhood and that's the, that's the trick, right?

Brent Warren 21:04Right.

Matt Greeson 21:05Finding that right, that, finding that right balance, um, that, uh, that, that needs to be achieved.

Brent Warren 21:16The Confluence Cast is sponsored this week by the Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission, or MORPC, featuring stories about local and regional partners that envision and embrace innovative directions in economic prosperity, transportation, sustainability, and an inclusive central Ohio. MORPC's transformative programming, innovative services, and public policy initiatives are designed to promote and support the vitality and growth in the region. For more information, please visit MORPC.org. Do you think you'll be able to find something? I mean, 'cause this is not the first proposal for the site, and, uh, it wasn't... There's been... I mean, David mentioned there's a group that was proposing or hoping to see it mostly be turned into a park. Um, and there's other groups of residents that live nearby that have come out pretty strongly against any kind of development on the site. How do you see the city and the developer that's interested in it now, how do you see moving forward to actually make something that can, can come to be on that site?

Matt Greeson 22:27Well, I, I mean, I think we're early in that process. They've, uh, they've made a submittal that we're quite frankly just, just getting. It's, you know, 500 some odd pages that we're, uh, as a staff, just starting to go through. Um, just on first blush, it, it, it, it's, uh, probably doesn't strike that balance in terms of its, uh, uh, u- uses, uh, being, uh, um, uh, heavier on the residential side and, um, you know, not necessarily, uh, having, uh, um, all of the attributes that we would, we would expect. Um, but we're really early and, uh, we're already starting to get a lot of public input. We're not even, uh, quite sure when the applicant wants to be on the planning commission agenda. Um, and so, um, there's not a lot to comment on yet, but I expect that we're gonna have a robust conversation about it. There's a lot of review that the city needs to do of what they've proposed, uh, before we have, you know, serious and substantive comment on it. Um, and, um, I expect that you'll, um, you'll, uh, you'll hear a lot about it before, before we're, uh, to a point where we have a recommendation and, um, um, uh, the planning commissioner council are ready to vote on it.

Brent Warren 23:48Mm-hmm. Well, what do you say to somebody who, who sees that park plan and says, "Oh, that looks nice. Like, why can't we just turn it into a park?"

Matt Greeson 23:58Yeah, I mean, I think the, there- there's a, a, obviously a big and s- uh, serious group, uh, in our community that has been, uh, looking at that. Um, and to date, really, uh, uh, the city hasn't, uh, been able to give full consideration to that idea. In large part it's under private ownership. Um, it's, uh, under contract with a developer. Um, it's, uh... that developer, um, has, uh, uh, had a stated intent to want to develop it as opposed to sell it. Um, and they, uh, obviously now have an application on the table. So as you... as somebody who watches development all the time, uh, you're well aware that our job or our obligation as a government is, while you're right as a property owner is to ask for, uh- Uh, a rezoning, and our job as a government is to give fair and objective consideration of that. Um, and so, uh, you know, that, we need to do that, um, um, before we, uh, could ever, you know, really fully explore, uh, that idea.

Brent Warren 25:07Right. In order for a park to happen, the, presumably the city would need to buy the site. And you're saying right now the site, city is, doesn't own the site, and it's ac- the site is actually in contract to a developer, which is the one that has the, has the proposal on the table right now.

Matt Greeson 25:25Right. Exactly.

Brent Warren 25:25Yeah.

Matt Greeson 25:25So, um, uh, you know, that's, um, and w- and w- which we need to, we're required to, to con- you know, to go through the process to consider.

Brent Warren 25:36Mm-hmm. Do you think there will be any ... 'Cause this proposal, this latest one, doesn't seem that different in terms of its scope from the one we saw, I don't know, what, what was that like, a few years ago, right?

Matt Greeson 25:51Yeah.

Brent Warren 25:52Yeah.

Matt Greeson 25:52It was 2014. No, I, I mean, just on first blush it looks quite a bit different. Um, uh, quite a bit more apartments, less office-

Brent Warren 26:01Mm-hmm

Matt Greeson 26:01... which is something the city has an interest in. Uh, obviously 70% of our income tax revenues come, uh, come from things, from office uses. Over 70% of our budget is rooted in income taxes, which predominantly come from, from offices, and we're, we're interested in seeing that as a, a bigger use. Um, and so yeah, lots more residential, less, less green, green space, and less, um, uh, office, and, um, and that, um, that is why I made the comment that it doesn't, it doesn't appear to strike the right balance at this point-

Brent Warren 26:37Mm

Matt Greeson 26:38... um, and, uh, has gotten, uh, a lot of feedback from the community already.

Brent Warren 26:43Right. Um, I'm wondering, 'cause I, I recently read a article comparing ... 'Cause we had four proposals all come in, sort of bubble up to the surface in the last few weeks. It was, there were the two Worthington ones, which we're talking about today, and then there was the Upper Arlington Kingsdale Mall, uh, shopping center redevelopment proposal, and the Westerville site, which is a big chunk of undeveloped land kind of across the river from-

Matt Greeson 27:13Mm-hmm

Brent Warren 27:14... Otterbein University. So these all came up recently, and, um, it's interesting to see the comparisons, and then also to look at some places that have had more success in recent years building some of these kind of projects in established suburban communities. Um, have you reached out? Is this something that the different communities talk to each other about? Like, have you talked to Dublin about how they got Bridge Park built? Have you talked to Upper Arlington about some of their big, big projects that have been approved and are, like on Lane Avenue-

Matt Greeson 27:48Right

Brent Warren 27:48... that are coming through?

Matt Greeson 27:50Yeah, I mean, uh, every community's unique. Uh, but also, uh, there's lots of lessons to be learned from successful projects in other communities. And so yeah, we watch closely and, uh, monitor the success of Bridge Park and Lane Avenue and, um, um, and other places. And, uh, and, um, you know, we believe Worthington has, is a great place to invest. Uh, uh, I know David talked about High North. Uh, I think we're pretty excited about, um, about, uh, the potential there. Um, and, uh, uh, but every community has a site that's particularly context sensitive, and, um, and, uh, certainly, uh, UMCH is ours.

Brent Warren 28:31Do you think it helps maybe to have these other projects ahead of you so people can go to them and see kinda how they turned out? Do you think that might help to change some people's minds in Worthington?

Matt Greeson 28:44I don't know about change people's, uh, minds. I mean, I think, I think, uh, um, you know, there's, there's, uh ... Anytime we're doing planning, you know, you do development tours. You've probably done a lot of these, right?

Brent Warren 28:57Mm-hmm.

Matt Greeson 28:57So you try to imagine, as we go through like our visioning process, trying to imagine what kind of places we wanna create. Uh, having local benchmarks is, uh, is particularly valuable, um, to helping shape, um, understanding of different planning concepts, and then ultimately potentially consensus. Um, and, uh, yeah. So I mean, I think having those are all, uh, great, but I think in, on this particular site we need to come up with something that is uniquely Worthington.

Brent Warren 29:27Mm-hmm. Um, one more thing about when I was, when I wrote that article recently comparing the four different recent proposals, uh, in Worthington, Upper Arlington, and Westerville, um, I noticed that none of them, at least at this point, and they're all pretty early in the process, none of them had any sort of language about affordable housing. Is that something that the city of Worthington is looking to add? Is that something you're trying to encourage? What's, what's your position on that?

Matt Greeson 29:58Yeah. I, I, I mean, certainly, uh, whether you use the term affordable or attainable housing is, um, uh, uh, nomenclature that I've been hearing a lot, uh, used in, in communities to refer to this. It's a, it's a regional challenge, uh, that I think we're all gonna face, and I've been, you know, obviously following the housing strategy, uh, that MORPC has, has done.

Brent Warren 30:20Mm-hmm.

Matt Greeson 30:20Um, I would say at this point, um, we're pretty ... We haven't, uh, formalized, um, our efforts in that regard. Um, one example where we pursued that is when National Church Residences, uh, um, proposed their planned redevelopment of the Stafford Village, uh, property, which is, was, uh, um, a, a affordable housing for, um, uh, older adult residents, and, uh, had been in place for a long time, uh, since the '50s, and they were redeveloping it. Uh- You know, one of the things that was really clear, um, uh, when they proposed, uh, redeveloping that was that the community valued, um, having that as part of, uh, the old Worthington fabric, that it was important to, uh, continue to have, in that case, affordable housing for seniors. And the debate really wasn't about, um, um, that being part of our community. It was just about, uh, the, the density, size, number of units, and kind of look of the building and how it fit into our historical district, um, historic district. Um, so I know that's a community value. Uh, how that, um, uh, translates into, um, policy, uh, in the coming year or two years will be interesting. Um, a- and we'll... We're like every other community. We're at the ear- early stages of evaluating, uh, uh, that. Um, our Community Relations Commission has started talking about, uh, like some other community source of income, uh, legislation.

Brent Warren 31:56Hmm.

Matt Greeson 31:56Um, and, uh, um, I expect that we'll have, um, a more robust conversation about attainable housing, uh, in the, in the coming year. It's also a theme that-

Brent Warren 32:07So the source of it-- Sorry, source of income that refer... That, I think Bexley just passed legislation that said a landlord can't discriminate against a tenant due to the source of income. Is that, is that what that means?

Matt Greeson 32:21Right. And they, and there's, there's not been a lot of conversation at our, uh, Community Relations Commission yet about it. It's a, it's a topic that's come up, like it came up in Bexley. Um, and, uh, I expect we'll end up at some point discussing the same thing, that something similar to what they, they have, but we're early in that. Um, and, uh, I would say it's also, uh, an issue that's, uh, come up in our visioning process. Um, we've been undertaking, um, uh, what we call Vision Worthington for the last year, really, uh, in part wrestling with, uh, this question of how we grow, um, and, um, what we, what we wanna be and how we look to try to reconcile differences of opinion, in part reconcile differences of opinion, um, about, you know, where, uh, about, uh, uh, you know, the, the type of growth we want. Um, and one of the themes that clearly is coming, uh, out of that is, uh, wanting to be a, a more diverse community, uh, more equitable, um, and, uh, to explore, uh, ways we can do that. And I think, I think the housing component's one of those.

Brent Warren 33:31Mm-hmm.

Matt Greeson 33:31Um, there may, there are many others that we can, that we'll end up talking about as we, as we, uh, move towards adopting the vision that, that is being developed and actually figuring out how we implement it through our strategic planning.

Brent Warren 33:44Mm-hmm. Do you think there's an opportunity as, uh, you may be adding units, adding apartments, single-family houses, different kind of housing to the community to, to put some sort of affordability component with those new units, so as you add in more, you're helping to diversify and create more kind of housing choices in, in the city?

Matt Greeson 34:11Yeah, maybe. Um, the challenge in a Worthington is there's so few opportunities left, right? Um, so, um, uh, the Harding, old Harding Hospital site that's owned by, uh, Boundless over, um, uh, off 161, um, I know they're NCR, for example, National Church Residences has had interest in, uh, uh, part of that property over time. Um, and that would be another opportunity to add, um, housing, uh, that, um, serves, uh, lower income older adults, and I think that, uh, to, that we would be supportive of that to, to a degree. Um, it's a big site, so there an opportunity for other uses. Um, the, uh, the... And, um, but there, there's just not a lot of land in, in Worthington to, to make a giant impact, um, on that from, by making a policy move like that. So the... I think the question is what else can be done, um, that helps meet that need? Um-

Brent Warren 35:16Mm-hmm. You mean apart from housing or?

Matt Greeson 35:19Apart from, uh... I mean, if you had a, a, apart from a, a code requirement-

Brent Warren 35:24Mm

Matt Greeson 35:24... that, that would, wou- would or in addition to, uh, I don't know. Um, we haven't fully studied it, um, because we don't have any, uh, large scale, uh, greenfield, um, uh, developments that, that, uh, applying something like that would make a, a large difference. Um, so the question is how do you intermix it through our community, uh, through other strategies, I think. Um-

Brent Warren 35:54Mm-hmm.

David McCorkle 35:54Yeah. Our, our, our land value is, is so high that what, what it forces us to do is you either allow density or you subsidize, and I... You know, those are just pieces we have not fully had conversations around yet, but we understand, uh, the challenges just to pencil a project if you are going to add certain types of components to it.

Brent Warren 36:15Mm-hmm. Um, okay. To sort of my last question, we've focused mostly on these two big sites in Worthington. Um, is there anything else that's happening now in, in Worthington that you think people should know about? Uh, what's, what's the next year gonna look like for, for you guys?

David McCorkle 36:34The, the additional project that I would point out is our Worthington Gateway project, so that's the redevelopment of the former Holiday Inn site. Uh, that has, uh, uh, true to form, has gone through multiple iterations, uh, over the last couple years, uh, with the most recent iteration, uh, receiving approval for, uh, five, uh, commercial, both, uh, um, retail, restaurant, and office buildings along Wilson Bridge and High Street. Um, we did have a hotel approved for that site. That fell through, so we're ki- kind of going through the process to understand what is the best fit for that remaining parcel Um, so I think you'll see some, uh, uh, pending legislation around what, what happens on that last, uh, that last parcel. Uh, but construction will start on, on that building or those series of buildings probably early 2021. Uh, so I think that's something to point out. Um, and then Matt, if you wanna touch on the, maybe the gate, the-

Matt Greeson 37:31Yeah. So, um-

David McCorkle 37:32... Northeast Gateway intersection

Matt Greeson 37:32... we've talked about, uh, uh, projects that developers are, uh, uh, applying for. Uh, but one of the projects we're doing, um, uh, which is a transportation infrastructure project, is the Northeast Gateway, which is, um, the reconstruction of the intersection where Worthington, Galena, Wilson Bridge, and, um, uh, Huntley, uh, come together. And it's a, it's a major, uh, project, um, intersection reconstruction that'll, that'll, it'll reduce congestion in that area.

David McCorkle 38:04Mm-hmm.

Matt Greeson 38:04It will increase bicycle and pedestrian facilities, um, and, and we believe increase safety as well. And, uh, investment f- uh, you know, hopefully investment also follows, um, uh, and redevelopment follows that trans- transportation infrastructure. And we're hopeful that, uh, that it'll, that, that investment and that gateway and all those improvements will help lead to some, uh, renewal in the Huntley Road corridor, which is a, which is a more of a flex office industrial corridor for us, but it's, uh, vital for, to our local economy. Um, and then David's been doing a lot of, uh, creative work with a group of citizens, uh, and businesses in response to, uh, COVID. Um, and we have what we call our Reboot program, which is, um, has given grants to local small businesses and is going to continue to give grants. I don't know, David, if you wanna touch on that, because we're trying to ensure that our small businesses, uh, are successful and, um, and rebound from, uh, COVID to the best of our ability.

David McCorkle 39:05Yeah, thanks, Matt. So it was, uh, it w- it was, it's a l- group of, uh, city staff, local organizations, and actually small business owners, uh, but got together and, and put this Reboot team together, Reboot Worthington. Uh, like Matt said, we've done grants. Uh, we do things as, as small as flexibility on parking and signage, uh, you know, to help folks through the troubling time. Um, if you've driven around Worthington, you've seen our 100 feather flags that line our commercial corridors that say, "We're open, and open to all." And that was a very deliberate initiative, uh, to let folks know that our businesses are open, and they're open to everybody. Um, we've been flexible on our, uh, events for DORA, you know, s- to, uh, some of the open container, uh, uh, events to allow some additional outdoor events and outdoor seating, uh, in, in and around our downtown. Uh, and finally, as Matt said, um, we, we are gonna probably roll out a third round of, of funding to help support some of these businesses through mostly grants, uh, that, that can help, uh, help folks, folks, uh, through this difficult time.

Tim Fulton 40:13And that's city, city funding?

David McCorkle 40:15Uh, so it, it, it's actually, it's CARES Act funding.

Tim Fulton 40:18Oh, right, right.

David McCorkle 40:19Um, but, but what we've done, uh, is we've actually identified, uh, quite a few expenditures that the city already has that are eligible for CARES Act r- uh, reimbursement. And so we've attributed those expenditures to the CARES Act, and we're using economic development dollars-

Tim Fulton 40:40Mm

David McCorkle 40:40... for the Reboot efforts, so we can be a little bit more flexible, a little bit more nimble, uh, and, and, uh, can, can really get out there and, and support our small businesses. And so it's been pretty well-received, but, uh, every week brings, uh, new challenges. And, uh, having a group of local business owners and members of the chamber and the Old Worthington Partnership, it's been invaluable to, to be able to respond to the business community kinda in real time.

Tim Fulton 41:09Well, I think that's a good spot to end it. Uh, David and Matt, thanks for talking with me today. I really appreciate it.

Matt Greeson 41:14Yeah. Brent, thank you, and, uh, hope I could be helpful.

David McCorkle 41:18Thank, thanks Brent.

Tim Fulton 41:20Yeah. Thanks, David. Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite city manager. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. Our producer is Philip Cogley. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.