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Crafty in Columbus

Jan 8, 2017 · 50 min

This week, we explore the craft scene in Columbus with maker maven Megan Green who heads up the Midwest Craft Con and Craftin’ Outlaws. It’s a discussion about the business of craft, the many hats you wear in business, and the plethora of offerings the Columbus craft community has to offer.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, we explore the craft scene in Columbus with maker maven Megan Green, who heads up the Midwest Craft Con and Craftin' Outlaws. We talk about the many hats that you need to wear, both figuratively and literally, in business, and we discuss the difference between a craft business and a traditional business. Spoiler alert, there is no difference. Uh, Megan and I sat down on the occasion of the upcoming Midwest Craft Con February 10th through 12th. If you're interested in attending the convention, you can get 20% off the full three-day ticket price on their website midwestcraftcon.com with promo code CRAFTCBUS. You can get more information on what we discuss today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Megan Green from Midwest Craft Con. She's the executive director of Glitter for Midwest Craft Con, also the event organizer for Craftin' Outlaws and the proprietor of Stinky Bomb Soap. Megan, how are you? I'm great. How are you? Good. Thank you so much for coming in. First of all, give us the elevator pitch on Midwest Craft Con. Uh, we are a three-day creative retreat for mid-level creative entrepreneurs. We get everybody together for a great big giant slumber party, uh, currently at the Hyatt Downtown in Columbus, and we provide them with inspirational keynotes, sessions, uh, fun hands-on craftivities that happen throughout the course of the weekend, and that's the simplest elevator speech I could give.

That's good. It could go on for days. No, that's perfect. So what, uh, is this the first year of it? This is our second year.

Okay. And originally it was started in 2011. Um, Olivera Bradich of Holy Craft created the first one. It was Midwest Craft Caucus. Okay. And she did a phenomenal job, and it lived in infamy, and it was one of those things where people were on social media like, "When's this gonna happen again?" And she rocked it. Like, she did an amazing job. It was held over at ECDI.

Mm-hmm. But, uh, you know, she runs a craft mecca down in Clintonville, and she has bigger and better goals for herself, and she was just like, "Uh, I'm kinda done with this. Um, I'll just leave it here in this tangent world. And if anybody wants to take it on, um, here it lies." And I slowly kind of brought it back to life and then got two amazing business partners, and we revived it. And- And re- rebranded it and renamed it, and now it's a nonprofit.

Your co-organizers also run craft fairs. They do. They're kind of like, uh, they're Craft Outlaws', um, equivalencies in, uh, in their own cities, and they do their own thing. And, um, and, uh, we've all kind of known each other online. Brit was actually, my, my partner in Akron, was the only one I'd never met. She actually, we did our first in-person retreat. We had kind of started this through emails. Uh, her nonprofit, uh, Crafty Mart in Akron, had just received that status, and she wanted to get into doing some kind of like trade show or, like, hands-on sessions for makers. And I had already kind of mentioned, uh, to Grace at some point, uh, my partner in, uh, in Cincinnati, that, uh, I kinda wanted to revive Craft Con or Craft Caucus at that point. Mm-hmm. Um, Olivera gave me her blessing. So Grace gave me the introduction email, and we just started, Brit and I just started chatting, and Grace was like, "Well, I want in on this thing, too." So we decided we were gonna go to a conference in Palm Springs.

Okay. So we all met for the first time, um, and actually started brainstorming together, uh, in California. And, uh- Did you go to Palm Springs with the idea of we need to see what another conference looks like? Yeah.

Okay. This was, uh, it was, um, XOXO. It's kinda like a, um, it, it's just like a very, Yes By Yes, I believe, is what it was called. Sorry, not XOXO. Yes By Yes. So it's kind of like a very unconference. So you literally are in a pool all weekend with cocktails, and there's no specific session in mind. Like, there's no keynote. There's, uh, anybody could bring to the environment what they want. Okay. And they basically release an app like 48 hours before the conference ha- actually happens, and it's one of the, one of the longtime attendees created the app for them.

Okay. And you literally just get on and say, "Hey, I wanna talk about, you know, wearing different hats, uh, in my creative small business life," and you're literally in a pool wearing crazy hats with cocktail in hand. Or- Oh, I'm sorry. You're not talking about accountant, lawyer, monster. No, no, no. It's, it's very much like a-

You're talking about literal hats ... yes, yeah. Okay. You're, you're actually wearing different hats. And, and every five minutes, like, you kind of, like, switch hats. And, uh, it's all a, you know, a, a representation of who we are as creatives and the different roles that we take on and how, you know, as a small business owner, you are wearing so many different hats on top-

Yeah ... of, you know, being a parent or whatever. So I guess I could have gotten there in terms of figuring out that there were unconferences because they're un everything else. Yes. Yeah.

But d- do you have to pay in addition to, like, staying at the hotel? Yes. Yeah. Do you have to pay for the unconference? There's, there's a... Yes, you do. You have to pay for the unconference, you have to pay for your hotel room, pay for your flight out there. Uh, and as a-

And you get a, you get an unbadge and- You, uh, there's no, there are no name tags, uh, there. Okay. For the most part, like, your phone stays in the room 'cause you're in a hotel, you're in a pool.

Right. Um, so, uh, uh, and as a Midwesterner, it was hard to wrap my head around this philosophy of- Yeah ... there's no schedule. I don't know anybody here. And I've, you know, uh, Brit, when she picked me up at the airport, it was like 11:00 at night when my flight rolled in, and she was like, "Oh, I'm in like a gray rental car." I was like, I was just, like, randomly going up to cars like, "Are you Brit from Akron?" So, um, uh, but Grace had gone to this, uh, conference several times, and she had actually spent her summer abroad in, uh, Germany. So she flew back in to experience this conference. She was already going. Uh, Brit happened to be in a wedding. Uh, and then they were like, "You should come." And I was like, "Uh..."

So once you sort of settle in- Yeah Would you say that this conference is based off of that conference? Some of the ideas are based off of that.

Okay. Again, going back to that, like I had- 'Cause this is- I was uncomfortable

... your f- your conference, the Mi- the Midwest Craft Con is a formal conference. Correct. We have specific keynotes that are gonna give you a, a wonderful, inspirational, uh- Okay ... a warm, fuzzy feeling inside, uh, focused around handmade and creative entrepreneurs. We have, um, you know, marketing, we have, you know, bookkeeping, like all the traditional components of a traditional conference-

Right ... are all gonna be there. But we also have lots of, um, like free time. It's all about what some of our attendees want. So when we had our first event in 2016, somebody organized a trade swap, so anybody could just meet up. We basically gave them the room, we gave them the time. Mm-hmm. And, um, they were able to coordinate, you know, these are the parameters of the trade. Like, this is the price point. So somebody organized that. Another group from, um, Pittsburgh, they're the organizers of Handmade Arcade-

Okay ... which is like a, an outlaws version of, of their show in Pittsburgh, organized Googly Eye University, which was a program where you could literally sit down with old vintage magazines and put googly eyes on things and draw, and it was, it sounds like the most basic concept with a fancy title. Right. Um, but it's like the most simple, mundane craft, but it was like a, the hit of the party. Like, everybody loved it.

Well, 'cause you end up with a unique thing that you've never seen before. Correct. But it's a simple thing. Yes.

But, yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, uh, uh, somebody coordinated a, um, you know, retailers, um, that had brick-and-mortar shops, like they got together and they were like, "Let's talk about like POS systems." Okay. So it was all about like you've got all those people there, like what can you as, like what do you wanna experience while you're here that we aren't like, that's not sanctioned by us. Um, and we just give them the time and the space and the parameters and the, the no glitter rule.

So it's a lot like, I've been to South by Southwest, and it's a lot like South by Southwest in that you're sort, you sort of, there it's democratized to the point that like some people's talks aren't gonna happen, but people submit and say, "I wanna do this." Yes. And you say, "Yeah, that's fine." Yep. Yep.

Much like, actually a more local comparison is Independence Day. Yes. Somebody comes at the appropriate time and says, "I wanna do X, Y, Z thing." Yes.

And they say, "Okay, what do you need?" Yes. Like, what do you need- Yep

... to make it happen? Very, very similar in a lot of ways. We'll facilitate it, but you gotta do it. Yes. Yeah.

Right. And we're not putting the, like we're not asking people, like, like with an Independence Day, we're not asking people to like create the, the atmosphere and the environment. Mm-hmm. Like, it's literally just like the little tiny things. Like how can you create the community that you want at these environments, whether you're a jewelry vendor or, or a jewelry maker-

Mm-hmm ... and you wanna meet other jewelry makers, um, specific to beading or specific to metalsmithing. Like, you can just say like, "Hey, like metalsmithers, I wanna meet somewhere randomly within the conference." Right. "And we can get together and we can totally talk shop." Um, or you know, "I wanna get together with some googly eyes and some felt and I wanna make something really cool. I'll be at this table." Um, and then we also do fun things like, um, we have karaoke. We did a, a crafty spelling bee last year.

Okay. Um, so again, there's a few things that we do, we do plan for, but, uh, we really wanna encourage people to think outside the box and, and make it their own event. And the, the conference is a, is a nonprofit. We are. We just, um, started, uh, our nonprofit or we're approved with our nonprofit status in, uh, the summer of 2016. So when we-

Oh, that was fast. Yeah. When we first started, we used, uh, the Crafty Mart nonprofit. They were our fiscal sponsor. Okay. So, um, we were open, able to open up a lot of doors, um, through that, and then we realized like, oh, we should probably be our own legit thing. And so, uh, it took a while. Um, actually when we met in California for the Yes Buy convention was when we were actually all together, so we all signed the paperwork there, and then we mailed it when we got home.

Because that does, that is a process that takes sometimes a year, sometimes a year and a half. It does. It got expedited very quickly. Um- Okay ... uh, Brit having already been experienced in the nonprofit world, um, knew some tricks, so it didn't take very long. And so-

And she was able to do some copy and pasting, I imagine, to sort of- I imagine so, yeah ... get it, get it done. Yeah. Yeah.

Get it done. And, and again, c- since we had already kind of been established, we already had a lot of our missions and- Okay ... um, yeah. But it's definitely, it's been very helpful in allowing us to create kind of a ripple effect for not only our attendees, but the kind of the handmade community at large within the Midwest area.

How many attendees do you guys have? We had 180 for the first one. Wow. Okay. Um, so, and that included our speakers. That included, you know, uh, I was gonna say the three of us, and then I remember that Brit had, uh, found out sh- after she got back from California that she was expecting. So she actually had a due date, I think, the week after the event.

Okay. And she went ahead and, um- She said, "Mm, I'm gonna miss this one, you guys." Well, she wound up having the baby early.

Okay. So she was like, "I could go," and we're like, "Stay home with your baby. Like, you don't have to come." So it was a little bittersweet because, you know, she had spent, you know, a year of her time- Right ... devoting towards this, uh, experience, and she got to experience it virtually. Uh, and we have a private Facebook page for all of our attendees, so in that, like w- while we don't have an app feature, um, it's literally like you just go on Facebook and you say, "Hey, I wanna do this, and, you know, meet me at the food court, and we'll talk about whatever that topic might be." Um, so she kinda got to experience virtually. Uh-

Right ... and we also created a little, um, foam core cutout, and, uh, we had a hashtag Feel The Brit, so we got to like just include her in little odds and ends experiences that she got to live through the hashtag. So this year you'll be making crafting great again, or? We will definitely be doing that, yeah.

Yeah. And, and with, with Brit, uh, by our side. Yeah. Good. Good. Talk a little bit about, Megan, how did you get into crafting? My background has always been, uh, I've loved diving into things and having like a DIY experience.

Okay. So, uh, and I remember with my parents, um, there was like a little storefront. I grew up in Lima, Ohio. There was a little storefront, and my dad and I were always just like, "Oh, we'll turn that into a flower shop, and he'll do this, and I'll do this." And so I always remember having- Just as like a dream sort of- Just as like, yeah-

Okay ... like a little silly dad-daughter pipe dream. Right. So I've always had like this like little entrepreneurial spirit, and I've always taught myself how to like dabble in soaps and dry flowers and, um, make candles. So I've always just had this like knowledge to want to learn how s- you know, how to make things happen. It's always been a very creative, um, experience for me.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so I started just making things and slowly like, you know, learned about things like Etsy, and there used to be something called the Switchboards, which was like a handmade forum for people to like c- talk about their, you know, crafty little, um, endeavors. Okay. Um, and then slowly, somehow, um, Stinky Bomb came to be, and that was kind of my, my big introduction into the handmade world. I'd had one-

Can I ask what you were doing professionally before that? Uh, nothing. Okay. I was working at a picture framing shop, and I-

Well, that's not nothing ... took a couple of... Well, I was, I was, I was maintaining bills. Okay. And, uh, I had dropped out of community college, and so I was just A dabbler, and I like to explore things, and-

Okay ... um, everything's self-taught. So, um- And there's a c- there's a cute story on the Midwest Craft Con site about how your husband does replica hand grenades. Yes.

And so you found a- so, had a mold sitting out. You knew how to make soap. Yeah. And you were like, that... 'Cause it actually, it is one of those things that when it first came along, what seven years ago at this point? I think Stinky Bomb has been around for eight or nine years.

Okay, so when it first- Yeah ... came ar- around, I think I was introduced to it at, like a craft fair or something, and I was like, "That's the best idea for soap I've ever seen." I like-

'Cause it- it fits perfectly in your hand. It's a hand grenade. Yes. It's meant to be that. Yeah.

It is... Is it only hand grenades? No, we've evolved. Okay. So, um, but the- the- the- the- the background for Stinky Bomb was, uh, yeah, my husband, um, works for an industrial design firm in town, and he is, ah, one of his many hobbies is he's a World War II re-enactor.

Okay. So they were out on one of their mock battlefields, and I've never been to one of these events, so I'm just gonna, like quotation mark what that means. Right. And you can fill in your own-

Nobody email or tweet- ... your own vision ... angry things. Um, so, uh, he was on one of their mock battlefields, and they were playing out in the woods, and somebody brought, for whatever reason, like, their grandfather's World War II dagger.

Okay. And, uh, I don't know why they had an actual knife in- in fake battle, but they did. And it got lost, and everyone stopped what they were doing 'cause it's worth something. Right. Um, so they all stopped. They, um, eventually found it, and he's like, "You know, I could probably, like, cast that and make a replica for it."

'Cause that's something else your husband does. Yes, yeah. Okay. So I could, I could do that for you, and, uh, then you don't have to bring that around when we go out in the woods and- and play, uh, World War II army men. And, um-

Well, there's also a safety issue there, too, right? I think so, yeah. Like, I grew up- Yeah

... in theater. You don't have real knives on stage. You- you- you do not. But I don't, I think this was just, like, a private thing. I don't think it's sanctioned by anything. Okay. So I don't even know that they have insurance. It's literally, like, a bunch of Boy Scouts just out in the field camping and- and playing war.

Right. And I'm sure he's gonna hate me for saying all this, but- No ... that- that's my, that's my con- my synopsis of what he does.

What is your husband's name? His name's Rob. Shout out to Rob. Thanks, Rob. Um, so he, uh, he took that, uh, concept and, uh, the other friends on the battlefield, you know, enjoyed it, and so he's created his own, like, e-commerce site. Um, and he's been doing that for about 10 years, and then, uh, we had our first child, and I was home with her, and he was working out of our house at that point, and he's very messy. So he had one of those molds just sitting around. And again, I've been a dabbler, so I knew how to make soap in, like, traditional fight club soap, where you incorporate fats and lyes.

Right. And then I also knew that there was such a thing as melt and pour soap, which is basically someone's done all of that for you. It's glycerin based. All you have to do is just melt it down in a double broiler and add some fragrance and some scents, and you can literally make any type of soap that you want- Okay ... in any shape that you want. And knowing that it was a, uh, a grenade mold, I knew that I couldn't do the traditional lye soap.

Right. So I just ran to the craft store, grabbed the- the raw materials, which in hindsight, like, they're terrible stuff, like the stuff that you can just buy at, like a Jo-Ann's or a Michael's. Like, it's not good quality stuff. There's better raw ingredients out there. Well, I was about to ask you, is that still how you do it? Like- It is. Like, the melt and pour process is still what I use, but I use a higher grade, um, base.

Okay. But you're not creating the base. I am not creating the base. Okay. I'm adding flavor, I'm adding color.

Right. Uh, you're paying for the experience and the novelty of the shape and the design. So I- I took one of his molds, and Stinky Bomb was formed, and, um, we've gone and we've evolved from there, and literally whenever I have an idea in my head, I just say, "Hey, you know what'd be funny? Baby head soaps. You know what'd be funny? Ohnoio soap." So it's just slowly evolved, and he makes the molds for me, and then I run everything else. Okay. Uh, and it's really, we don't really have any other, um... Our businesses don't really cross anymore. It's just, um, when I have an idea and he has time to execute it. Um, other than that, we don't really, yeah, we don't really cross.

And so St- and Stinky Bomb Soap is available, I assume, at Holey Craft. It's available at Holey Craft. Uh, I think we- we're also available at Igloo Letter Press. Okay. And then our online site, it's basically just through Etsy now.

Okay. It's kinda become, like, my passive income. I don't put as much time and energy into it anymore. Um, it still exists online, and I just kind of allow it to- to live, and, uh, I've got other things that I'm actively trying to pursue, so I just kinda let it live and, um- And when you run outta soap, you make some more soap. And then, yep, yep. So it's just a, uh, a, a drop ship type of situation. You order it, I make it, it goes out the door.

Okay. And I wanna get back to Etsy in a bit. Craft and Outlaws, for those that don't know, what is Craft and Outlaws? Uh, we are an alternative craft fair in our 12th year, and we are a marketplace for people like myself, people that would make things like Stinky Bomb Soaps or, or jewelry, who, um, rent a booth from us. We provide the venue. We rent, they rent their booth from us, and then we attract, um, shoppers and consumers to come in and buy their items directly from them. Great. Is that held at a static location at this point? For the most part, yeah. We're at Highline Carhouse, uh, for our spring event, and then we're, uh, now at the convention center, um, for our holiday show. And-

Great ... uh, we- And this all got started as, if I recall correctly, back at Scully's, right? It, yeah.

Okay. So the, the founder of Craft and Outlaws, Liz Recino, was just an artist who, uh, was having a hard time finding a proper place to sell her items. Okay. And this was back in 2005. In, like, t- timeframe history, like, um, Etsy had just started.

Mm-hmm. Um, Holey Craft had just started. Mm-hmm. And Craft and Outlaws had just started. And-

So it is two events a year, correct? Ours is two events a year, yep, spring and, and, uh, the holiday show. Are there other craft fairs that people can check out? Oh, yeah, there's... Columbus has a wide variety of, of fairs, from small pop-ups to other large, you know, uh, shows on the, on the level of what we do now.

Okay. Um, uh, yeah, there are we... I, I always say, like, any more, like at any given time, any given weekend, you can find a place to shop handmade at a fair in Columbus. Uh, so when we first started, there was nothing like it around. Uh- Right ... closest place you could find it would probably have been in Pittsburgh.

Okay. And, uh, then they were in LA and, and New York. So, uh, Liz, um, needed a place to sell her stuff. She wasn't getting into traditional shows, and, like, church bazaars weren't her scene. So she was like, "I'll, I already know about these crafters happening." What did, what was she, what was her sort of primary craft? She did kind of like rockabilly stuff.

Okay. Um, so, like, bowling pins, uh, that she would paint, uh, with little, like, rockabilly girls, like our Craft and Outlaws- ... sassy cowgirl- Mm-hmm ... was her design. So it was a lot of, like, that type of an aesthetic.

So that up next to grandma's quilts- Didn't really work ... didn't really fit. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So she, you know, created her own thing, and it was held in Scully's, and she had people lining up out the door to come in and shop. And I think it started with maybe 40 vendors. Mm-hmm. Again, I was, uh, not the first year. Uh, I think I was finally a vendor. 'Cause again, it was one of those things, it was hard to get into. Like-

Right ... uh, it was so small, but the, the, there was already a, a client base, uh, as an exhibitor. Um, so it was really hard to get into, and eventually one year I got in, and slowly, like, she was on her way out. She decided she wanted to go to grad school and asked- Okay ... if anybody wanted to step in, and I was one of many who stepped up, and then it just kinda became, I, I found, you know, that no one was really becoming the leader. And I was like, "I, you know, just had a kid. Like, I, I could do this."

I've got some time. Yeah, so- I don't have a full-time job right now. Yeah.

Right. So she, uh, basically, you know, very, very nicely handed me everything, and I've just kinda been learning from there. And granted, she had some documents that I could, you know, go off of, but it was- Right, this is how we did this in the past. Yeah, but it was all, you know, like, brand new and, um, uh, so I've just been learning and growing and expanding with it. And, uh, it's gotten to the point now where I don't sell my stuff anymore. Like, Stinky Bomb is not really present at my fair because-

Okay ... I'm running the event. I'm doing other things, so. So are you doing fairs still, like, with Stinky Bomb? Uh, I don't do as many anymore.

Okay. Um, just because other things have taken place, and it gets harder when your kids get older. Yeah. Um-

Does it? It does. It does. I don't think it ever gets any easier, um, I think until they're probably on their own and can watch themselves. But, you know, we both have, my husband and I both have very busy schedules, and there's always something going on. And to stop everything you're doing so that somebody else can leave for the weekend- Right ... is, is a strain. Um-

Yeah ... so, uh, uh, and I'm not the... Like, I have respect for people that bring their kids to our shows 'cause I don't have the tolerance or the patience for it. Like, I'm there to work. I don't need- Oh, you mean crafters bringing their kids. Crafters, yeah.

Right. Makers bringing their kids to, like, I don't have any, I don't have a problem against it, but my kids aren't chill enough to just sit there behind a table. Um, and- Yeah, mine is not either. Yeah, so, uh-

I was hoping that maybe you'd say, "It gets easier." Uh, not for me. Uh, some people make it work. We, we are not those people. So, uh, so I don't do as many fairs anymore. I would love to it. Like, I think the last one I did was in the spring, and, uh, I realized how much I missed it. Like, there's such a energy- Mm-hmm ... 'cause everyone's setting up, and then there's so much, like, talk. Like, "Oh, did you do this?" And like, there's, it's like a g- giant water cooler moment.

Right. Uh, especially during the setup and then when, you know, when there's, if there's a lull. You know, you get some downtime. You get to, like, network. You get to meet those people, which is what, you know, going back to Craft Con, um, that's why it's so great. Like, I get to see those people that I only get to see for, like, a couple of hours during setup, and then they were way in the other room, so I didn't get to see them again, or I follow them on social media. So, um- Well, and like other specific conferences, you are not often surrounded by people who are doing exactly what you're doing. Yeah.

And people who understand, oh, you know, I was up until 4:00 in the morning doing this because that's just sort of the nature of it. Yeah. It's like you start working on it, and you gotta keep going for eight hours in order to get it all done. Yes.

And it doesn't, let's go ahead and get into the business end of crafting a little bit. I don't imagine a whole lot of the people that are at Craft and Outlaws are getting a f- full-time compensation for that work. Uh, I would say a small amount of them are. Okay. I would say maybe 10, 15%, but for the most, like, like, doing it, like-

Right ... making a living off of it. Give me, can, l- Um-

So let's talk about that. First of all, people in Columbus that are doing that, like roughly. Um, I'm, t- top of my head I can think of, you know, Allison Rose. Okay. Uh, Nick and Allison Necera.

Mm-hmm. Um, uh, uh, the Smithery folks. Okay. Um, I mean, definitely Oliveira from Holy Craft. Um, uh, Red Giraffe. Uh, there's a lot of people who, um-

And these are people that from my familiarity with them, other than the Smithery, like, those other people, Allison Rose and Nick and Red Giraffe, they're doing sort of consumer goods, right? They are, b- and, and it's, it's a, an issue of they've, you know, they have their product line, and they are supplementing it one way or another. Um, and, and I think that's a, that's the key if you want to try to make it. Right. I think people, crafters especially, get sold on that, like, quit your day job-

Right ... scenario, and it's really hard- Well, 'cause it's, it's a- ... to do that

... work from home. I, you can do it in your, quote-unquote, "spare time," like, if you have kids. And you can just do, like, and it's a whole lot cooler than selling Avon. Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. Yeah. Uh, but it's harder because Avon, you know, you, you basically, you're, you're buying a, a raw material probably made, I don't know where they make their stuff. Uh, but you're basically reselling it.

Right. Versus not only are you selling this, you're making it, you're producing it, you're marketing it, so like- You're pricing it. Yeah.

You're- So again, going back to that, you know, like, you're gonna wear a lot of the hats in a pool in California. Like, you're wearing many, many hats when you're a, um, a small creative entrepreneur. Um, and, uh- I can't get over the hat thing. I'm sorry. You know. Uh, it's a metaphor for life.

It's a metaphor, but it's also literal. Yeah. Put on this hat in a pool. So talk about, let's, let's circle back a little bit to the Midwest Craft Con. You s- very specifically said this is for mid-level crafters. Yes.

So this is for people who already have sort of chosen what they want to craft. Yes. This is not someone who just says, "I think I want to craft." Correct.

'Cause they'll be a little bit out of their league there. Yes. We're not gonna give you the basics of how to start an Etsy sop, shop. Okay. We're not gonna give you the basics of how to, you know, create a URL. Like, we are, we are hoping and assuming, especially if you're gonna, you know, cr- If you're gonna spend the, if you're gonna create the expense of joining us for the weekend, you know-

'Cause it's 200 bucks plus a hotel. Yep. Yeah. Right. So for the most part, you're, you're probably somebody that's, that is a mid-career maker who's willing to put that into it.

Okay. Um, so, uh- But there are talks on legal issues. Correct.

There are talks on accounting and taxes. Yes. I imagine there's some talk about, like, intellectual property. Uh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Uh, we have a, a guy that joined us last year who, uh, came in and spoke a lot about, you know, like, intellectual property rights and, uh, and contracts, you know, as people start upping up their, their, their handmade game and, like- Mm-hmm ... starting contracts with either large corporations or, like, Target or, you know, all these, all these companies-

Or shops like Holy Craft. Yeah, yeah. Like, you wanna make sure that your, you know, your, your documents are, are where they need to be and that you know what your rights are. And, and again, while they're not giving you specific legal advice, 'cause you'd have to hire the lawyer- Right ... to do that, but they're giving you, like, the, the vague overview of, um, or these are the things that you need to know. And even our speakers, um, you know, are sitting in. Like, these are the people that are, you know, teaching-

Right ... the, the people that are attending. Like, they're sitting in on these lessons too, because you always need to remember or kind of be reminded, um, even if you're doing this as a full-time gig, you're, you always need to be reminded of some of those things that you kind of let fall to the side because you get- Or haven't had to think about because you didn't have a contract like that- Yes

... for a while. Yeah. Right. So we're trying to create a very broad range of any and everybody, from the, the keynote to some of our sponsors that are attending to, to the attendees themselves, are gonna take away something from this. And some of them are very, like, business focused and some of them are, like, you know, staying in love with your business.

Right. You know, like, how do you, how do you- Keep things fresh in your marriage. Yeah. How do you keep, like, you know, spending, you know, all those late hours at night, like, crafting your jewelry or making your soap or screen printing and still want to come back to work the next day?

Right. Or find a way to fit it into your time when you're raising kids or, you know, doing all the other things that we do, um, keeping your day job. So we have a lot of those, like, side focused sessions, and then we have panels and, uh, and other things like that. That's great. Talk about, so Crafting Outlaws has sort of a selection process. You have a panel of people that decides- Yes

... who gets into that. Yeah. We're a curated event, so people apply. We have, like, you know, three months the, the applications stay open and then they all get looked at and reviewed. And we're looking at everything from, you know, your photos to your price points to your aesthetic to, you know, any and everything we can think of, and we're always looking for a wide range of genres. And is there any sort of back and forth with the vendor in terms of, like, "Hey, all your stuff is really great, but it's too expensive"? Um-

Or is it really sort of you're taking what the submission is? We're taking what the submission is. Okay. So we typically have people, like, provide us your, um, your website, provide us one product descri- or one product photograph, and then a, a general product description-

Mm-hmm ... of your brand, and then, uh, we always ask for, like, a marketing statement, like an elevator speech. Like, give us a- Okay ... like, if we, if we're gonna sell you, you sell us your stuff very quickly.

Well, 'cause you, then you can reuse it and put it up on your website. Yeah. It makes my job a little bit easier. Right. Um, but we tend to look at, like, we, I know now, like, what typically somebody comes to our show, even the spring show versus the holiday show, what a consumer's gonna spend when they come.

Mm-hmm. So if your price point is outside of that, like, I would get worried that, you know, if you're selling something that's $100 a pop, there's a good chance that you might only sell one or two. Like- Right ... do I wanna take the risk? Because you're gonna have a bad experience if you only sell two or three.

Right. And you're gonna hold us Outlaws accountable for that. So I am, that's what part of the jury process is. You're gonna hold the Outlaws accountable for it. What's sort of unclear to me at this point, Midwest Craft Con is a nonprofit. Is Crafting Outlaws a nonprofit? We are not. Yeah.

Okay. So you are paid by Crafting Outlaws- Yes ... to sort of administer these two events- Yes

... a year. Mm-hmm. Is there staff? You have an assistant? I have an assistant, yeah.

Okay. Uh, and another one who just went to nursing school, so we kinda lost her, but we gained a lovely person in Mallory, who is a, is a maker, is a sewer, um, and- Shout out to Mallory. Yeah. Thanks, Mallory.

Talk about the difference between organizing a craft fair and a conference. First of all, sort of the similarities too. This is where we get into the nuts and bolts- Okay ... of, like, how do you do what you do? Okay. All right.

Um, talk about the, what are the similarities between doing a craft fair and a conference? Okay. I will start with, with, like, a craft fair. I feel that I have, like, three people that hold me accountable to do my job well. Okay. And the first would be the vendors, the people that are applying, submitting money, which basically covers that venue fee for the day.

'Cause those are your clients. Those are my clients. Right. And then the second would be my sponsors. They're the people who help offset some of that additional cost so I can keep those vendor fees down. So I need to keep them happy and do marketing, not only for those exhibitors, for, for those sponsors. And then the-

And who are, like, your primary sponsors for- Um, be- because Crafting Outlaws is not a nonprofit, like, we are very small. Like, we are very DIY, and a lot of those have been, like, the vendors that have gone on to open brick-and-mortar shops. Okay. Um, or just some, like, general partnerships that we have throughout the community. So, you know, Holy Craft, which again, why we always get confused for one another, 'cause she's been around for as long as we have.

Right. So we've been promoting her for as long as we've been promoting ourselves. You know, Nick & Allyson and, and Igloo and The Smithery and, um, Yarn It and Haberdashery. Again, these are one-time vendors who have gone on to create brick-and-mortar shops. Mm-hmm. And so that's typically who we try to, like, bring in, one, it means that they're gonna come to our events and we love them and they're great. Their, their quality of work is great.

Right. Um, but then we're also helping to support them throughout the year as well. Um, so- But what, so just for those that sort of aren't aware, what you mean when you say you're not a nonprofit, this is not a write-off for them. It's not a donation that they're making. It is not. No.

Right. This is a marketing expense for them. Right. So we have our exhibitors, we have our sponsors, and then we have the consumer. So those are the people that we are trying to target to come in and spend those money to keep the exhibitors and the sponsors happy.

Mm-hmm. So it's a very, you know, it's like a, it's a, it's a trifecta, and it's my job to make sure that all of them are happy, and again, we are constantly like, "What can we do to attract new people?" And, and at first, when we first started, like, at Scully's, like, the response was so great, but you couldn't navigate that space if you had- Right ... a stroller, if you, you know, had a couple kids with you. Like, it was impossible. And then as we kept growing, more people wanted to come in, and then the feedback was, you know, "I wish we had more room," or, like, "We're tucked into this little corner trying to sell our stuff. Like, it's really awkward. I'm feeling really claustrophobic."

Right. So then it became, you know, well, how do we make those concerns valid? Like, the shopper has an issue, the, uh, the exhibitor has an issue, so, like, we were then constantly like, "What kind of space can we find?" And we finally found that at the convention center. But that means, you know, we've gone from this DIY, like, small budget venue to this massive venue. You know, thank goodness they're not a union 'cause we wouldn't be able to, like, touch or do anything. But- Right ... so then we've gone to, you know, a $65 table fee to a $200 10-by-10 booth and, you know, that's a big jump.

Yeah. Uh, and again, f- For that curation process, again, that's why we're, we're selectively trying to find people that, you know, we want them to make a return on their investment. This isn't like a- The holiday show is the bigger show, right? D- definitely.

Obviously. Yeah. So how many applicants do you, on average, have a year for that? Uh, 200 to 300.

How many booth spaces do you have? 100. Okay. So we're, we are spending three to five hours looking at people, and I kinda like go through them as they come in, and then we have a little meeting and we discuss, you know, who we like, who we don't like, and we have a, you know, a yes, an alternative, and like a no. Like-

Mm-hmm ... they either, they either don't fit our aesthetic or, um, it's just not who we- Well, and what I was gonna ask about the selection process is do you sort, do you have that committee together? One, ease to sort of divide up the load, and also your brain can't think all the time about like, "Do I have enough jewelry vendors? Do I have enough greeting card vendors? Do I have enough fiber arts vendors?" Y- yeah.

And then also, there's also sort of the culpability of it, of, "I, I didn't say no." Mm-hmm. "This committee said no." Uh, there i- there is a lot of like, it, yeah, it kind of removes the burden off of me specifically.

Right. But it does help because I feel like the people that are helping with the selection have a different eye than I do. Mm-hmm. Like, I feel like they each have their own strengths. More importantly, they each have their own preferences. Like I, and I've learned, again, Mallory, whom I've come to love dearly, um, has a very different aesthetic than I do.

Okay. Like, I tend to lean towards things that are a little bit, um, darker, creepier, edgier, um- Well, you're making soap out of babies I make soap out of grenade. Yeah.

Right. She makes very sweet, delicate, well-crafted, um, bags and purses. Okay. And she has a aesthetic that I, you know, I just, I don't, I don't shop towards.

It's not yours. Yeah, but I want those people that have her preference to also come and have an amazing experience, so I want you to have a very diverse opportunity when you come to Craftsman Outlaws, that you can see things that you don't see at any of the other fairs. And, and it's a nice thing that what we, what we do offer is, you know, we still get a lot of people from all over the Midwest that come and sell specifically at our events, and you can't find them at any of the other local events. So it's one thing that really gives us a, a leg up. Because you are a little bit bigger. Yeah, because we're a little bit bigger-

And, and more established ... and, and our, and our aesthetic is a little bit different. You know, we don't have an all Ohio themed event. Like, I think you'd be hard-pressed to maybe find like five Ohio items at a Craftsman Outlaws event. Like, we- Really? Yeah. We, we just ... We're not looking for that. Like, we are looking for-

You're bigger than that. Uh, yeah. And we're just- You are, you are the arts festival of craft fairs. Of craft fairs. I am. I am. Well, no, and we, again, we want the art to stand out. We don't want it to be so, like, trend focused. We want it to be like we want your, your quality of work to stand out and, and that's why people are coming and, and gravitating and buying these items, because they're well-made. It's not playing into like a Pinterest Mason jar trend. It's, you know, it's just, it's good quality stuff that will stand the test of time and be in your home for a very long time.

Right. We should say that you work out of Block Fort. I do. So Craftsman Outlaws works out of Block Fort. I do, yes.

You start, you started Stinky Bomb Soap. When you needed a space, you were at Junction View. Yes. You made the move to Taco Cat. You're still with Adam Berlet at Block Fort. At Block Fort. Yeah, sometimes I still call it Taco Cat or Taco Fort. It's just a-

Right ... subliminal thing. Once you're there for a little bit and once- Yeah

... everybody sort of ... Yeah. Is everything done there now? For the most part. Our grand opening's gonna be announced soon.

Okay. Um, so we will have a private opening and then we're gonna have a public opening and I hope that that's cool. Yeah, so we, uh, you know, I was working out of my house and I needed a place to not fill up my table- Mm-hmm ... 'cause by then we've had two kids, so, um, you know, they really need that space to eat. My husband was already at Junction View and, uh, a space opened up, so I moved in and I shared a space with Esther, uh, who now operates, uh, Yarn It and Haberdashery.

Yeah. And then, uh, that got torn down in the name of, um- Grandview Yard. Yes, yes.

Nationwide Realty Investors. Yes. And, uh, and then- Progress ... Adam coordinated Block Fort.

Mm-hmm. I'm sorry. Uh, he coordinated Taco Cat- Yeah ... which was a cooperative, so we were all very, like, invested financially and with our labor. Like we helped, you know, put up drywall and, and build the floors and paint everything and that also got torn down in the name of, um, Grandview Yard.

Mm-hmm. And now, uh, they have created, Adam and his wife Megan have created Block Fort which is, you know, they are running it, they are managing it- Mm-hmm ... and, um, and I'm very happy.

You're a renter. I, yeah, and I'm very, very happy with that. Like, I like being able to go in and say, "Hey, this problem exists and I don't wanna have to help be in charge of fixing it. I just wanna like pass that information over to you and know that you guys are gonna fix it in, in, uh, in an appropriate amount of time." And all the name dropping we're doing here, you can find links to all these people and places and things and vendors in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Let's talk about getting started as a vendor and sort of what the resources are that are available. Midwest Craft Con, not necessarily for someone that is just starting out, not for someone who, let's say the minimum barrier of entry is having a website and having done a craft fair. I would think, yeah, I think that would be a good ... You, you probably want that basis behind you before-

Mm-hmm ... you come to the conference. Okay. How would ... Let's say somebody's making things and they're giving them away to people at the holidays and somebody reached out and said, "Hey, could you make me some of those things for this baby shower that I'm doing?" And so they've got their craft down to a point. Mm-hmm.

They may not have even costed it out ... properly- Mm-hmm ... in that they don't know how much cost of material is going into each individual good, how much waste they have, frankly what their cost of goods sold is. Mm-hmm.

They don't know the phrase cost of goods sold. Mm-hmm. What advice do you have for someone like that? Before you get into, like, the, the, the actual money of it is sitting down and figuring out how you can create what you're doing, like if it's a unique scarf, if it's a piece of jewelry that you've made. Actually sitting down and kind of timing yourself is where I would state that that starts.

Okay. Because your biggest, your biggest expense is going to be your time. Okay. In whatever you're doing as an entrepreneur-

Like many things, labor is- Yes ... the biggest. Right. Yeah. And in this case, you are the labor.

Well, not necessarily. But I think for the most part, as, as crafters, that's how we started out. Mm-hmm. Like, we are typically, like, we are making it, we are c- creating it and producing it, and a big, a big internal struggle amongst makers is at what point do you allow that to go off-site where you're not in charge of it?

Right. So for the most part, the people that are coming to our conference, or for the most part the people that are attending one of these craft shows, they are still manufacturing most of the goods. Right. Um, and I feel like it, they get to a point where they realize, like, "Oh, if I'm actually going to do this and, you know, remove that from my hands," like, that, then that's the next step.

Right. Um, and I feel like not everybody gets there. Well, and some people don't wanna get there. And, yeah, yeah.

Like you don't wanna get there with Stinky Bomb Soap. I don't, no, no. Like, and I've had some of those, like, meetings where, like, you know, do I, like, you know, go overseas and, you know, you know, like really, or look into a manufacturing company within the United States? Did you get that far into- At one point I was, like, looking into it.

Okay. Like, how can I have all this stuff made for me so that I can just do the other things that I want to do? And, and, um, and then I just realized, you know, I still really like, I still like that creative process of actually making it. Like, uh, I don't have a lot of Zen moments in my life, but making a bar of soap in the shape of a grenade, for whatever reason, brings me a little bit of calm. I totally get it. Yes. So, um, so for me, yeah, I never wanted to have that kind of outsourced, even if it's, you know, down the road from me or, you know, in another state or in another country.

Right. Um, but that, that would be the next step. But not everybody wants to take it to that level. Um, so for the most part, as a, as a maker, you are doing most of that labor, and that is your biggest expense. So you wanna really sit down and figure out how can you fine-tune this process. Find efficiencies. Yes.

Right. Yeah. Uh, and then you get into the price point structure. You know, like, are you just buying it from, you know, if you're making a scarf, are you just buying that yarn from JOANN's, or can you actually create an account with, you know, the, the skein that you really, really like, like find that manufacturer and start buying that stuff in bulk, and that's gonna lower your price points. Um, and the biggest- But you've also got a larger investment. Yeah.

And so you, you kinda gotta keep doing it at that point. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Right. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of, I mean, there's so many different levels, and it's, and it's the same for any business. But for the most part, the, the one thing that makers have that is different from a lot of business models is for the most part you are the manufacturer.

Mm-hmm. Unless you decide you're gonna get to the point where you're, you're gonna send that out to somebody else. How do you find... Uh, I guess my question is how do you find guidance in order to do that? A lot of peer discussions.

Okay. Uh, i- in my opinion, and again, that's why something like craft shows are really important. That's why something like, you know, the Craft Conference- So because you can just approach someone and say, "Hey, you kind of do something similar to me." Yeah.

Like, how did you- Yeah. And it's a lot easier to have that when you, there's like a face-to-face versus just sending a cold email out to somebody and say, "Hey, I really like your stuff. Give me all your inside trader information so I don't have to, like, go through all that." 'Cause the person is like, "Fuck you, I'm not gonna learn- Exactly. Exactly

... I'm not gonna teach you." But if you- Right ... create, you know, a nice rapport and you actually create a mutual relationship out of respect, you know, then you can start finding mentors, and I think that's true for any, again, for any type of business.

Right. Like, you always are trying to find people that you respect who are gonna help what you're doing, and it's about befriending that person and, you know, not taking advantage of that relationship and... But I think y- you find a mentor. You know? Okay. You, you find somebody that you wanna reach out to and, and can hopefully, you know, either show you the ropes or help guide you or not just give you all the, the website searches that are gonna make your, your life 100% easier. But, you know, I mean, part of the investment as, as an entrepreneur is you gotta kinda earn it sometimes, you know?

Right. You gotta really dig through and spend that time, and, and then you'll come out stronger, and then in return, you know, somebody's gonna look up to you and you're gonna be that person's mentor, and it's a very- I mean, do you think, though, that, 'cause you're saying this, and, and those are all great pieces of advice, but is there, do you think, an opportunity in this market for somebody to set up, like, one day, like, here are the things to think about, the entry-level conference, if you will? I, I think that that could exist.

Okay. I think that there have been some models like that. They're typically more, like, smaller- They're seminars. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's like a quick, like, "Hey, let's teach you how to make an Etsy shop." Okay. And again, like, that exists. Like, people need that type of knowledge.

Okay. Um, and, you know, people have e-books left and right. Are those resources somewhere, like let me teach you how to make an Etsy shop, like let me walk you through it? Uh, I mean, I can think locally. Like, I know Idea Foundry had one of those classes.

Okay. Like, Holy Craft, uh, had some of those classes back in the day. Okay. Um, so the- they do certainly exist on a local level, and they certainly exist, you know, on a Google search.

Right. So they do exist, it's just we're not gonna- That's not what you j- We, we-

... what you do. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So we are, we are focusing towards, again, like the people like myself with the Stinky Bomb, like if I really wanted to take Stinky Bomb to the next level, what kind of tools do I need that other people I know are probably gonna need, too, and that's the curriculum that we wanna provide, um, for those, for those makers.

What are your thoughts on Etsy? Uh, how do you feel about Etsy in general? Um, I'm, I'm, I'm like a 50/50 Etsy person. Okay. Uh, and I actually, um, for the conference I was kind of going through Etsy for the first time, and I realized, like, oh, I haven't actually been on Etsy. Like, my shop is open, like so when an order comes in, you know, my, my page is active and-

Mm-hmm ... and in front of me, but I don't explore Etsy the way that I used to. Okay. Um, but I know there's still lots of people who love and, and support and are, are Etsy fanatics, and I think that's great. Like, that marketplace exists for a reason.

Right. Um, but for me it's become, it's always like an incubation tool. Like- Right ... you can use that to test so many different things within your business. Like, you can learn those price points really quickly because you're getting a bill from them every month, and you're shipping, you know, stuff out, so you're paying USPS every month. So you really get to get a kind of like an introductory craft course of, um-

Well, business course almost. Yeah. Like, because you're- I mean, 'cause you're proving it out in that you're proving out those price points, but you're also proving out demand. Yes.

Like p- do people want this thing that you're making? Yeah. These mason jars that are filled with succulents. Yes. Yeah.

Like, yes, right now they probably are. Yes. Yeah. In eight months they probably will not be. Yes. Yeah. So you get to test out a lot of things, and because it's only a 20-cent listing and then you get the, the back end off of when you make a sale, it's really affordable 'cause you don't have to pay for, you know, yearly domain listings. You just pay for those fees. Um, so it makes it a really interesting place to test your, your handmade marketplace.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and it's also, because it's global, um, I mean, I feel like- Stinky Bomb wouldn't have done anything had Etsy not existed, which is, you know- Okay ... why I still won't close my shop. Like, especially now, someone who wants to kinda sit back and allow it to just be a passive income, like the searches and the engines just kind of work for themselves at this point, and I don't have to do a lot, and it allows me to focus.

And you could do more and it- I could do more ... and it would generate more revenue probably. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It's, uh, every, any type of business is how much time you put into it.

Right. So, uh, but it's a great way to test any concept, any idea that you have, and, and find your march- marketplace, build your email list up so when you're ready to take the leap, you can, you know, decide if you wanna create your own website. And then, but then, you know, Etsy again has a global customer base. Then you have to create your own customer base. Like, the minute you close your Etsy shop, like, it's all on you. Right. Um, so for me, like, I will always keep it open because it's just, it's, it's, it's a great platform, and again, I'm still in, in it for very little-

Why would I stop making money for it, from it? Yes. Yeah. Right. Um, so it's, uh, I still think it's really great, but... And, and again, they went from being, like, they helped make handmade mainstream.

Right. So we as makers are in debt to them, you know? But- So what's the bad thing? Uh, just, um, I mean, they've become, like, handmade and DIY, like when it started or when it really kind of re- reformed itself, like 15-some years ago-

Mm-hmm ... it was very much like a punk movement. Mm-hmm. So it's now like the punk has gone corporate.

Right. Um- Well, and someone is making money off of them. Yes. Yeah. You know, they have shareholders now, you know? Their, their business model has changed. Like, before it had this, like, very, like, artsy environment, and, like, the forums were really active, and it kinda felt really supportive and, and, you know, now they have, you know, more bandwidth and-

Mm-hmm ... you know, things on the back end that they need to provide. And it, it, it's been great in terms of, you know, their, their fees have stayed the same from the handmade s- sell- um, sellers' standpoint, but there's all these other bugs and things that are going on. And again, I'm not as active in that Etsy community- Right ... where I w- first was when I was doing Stinky Bomb. It is a great resource if you're just starting out. Like, that's the biggest thing to do. Like-

Okay ... create an Etsy account. And everybody knows that. Like, if you're at a craft show and there's a customer walking by, they're like, "Oh, do you have an Etsy site?" Right. Because that's their connection to handmade. But it's like anything. Like, you've gotta work really hard at it, and you have to put in the time and energy, and then it, it's, it's one cog in the wheel if you wanna try to maintain, you know, a career, if you wanna try to turn it into a career or make it a career.

Right. You know, um, you sometimes have your Etsy site. You sometimes have your own website. You're doing craft shows, you're doing trade shows, you're doing, uh, consignment, you're doing wholesale. You're b- starting to speak or, you know, they're, you're blogging. Like, there's- Mm-hmm ... so many levels to this. But I'm still, I'm still kind of an Etsy proponent, but again, I'm not on it the way that I probably would or should-

Gotcha ... have been a long time ago. Any other virtues or detriments to the Columbus craft scene that people may not know about? I mean, we are a test city, so I-

Mm-hmm ... I love that. Uh, and we are always growing and evolving, and I think the, the craft show circuit has shown that as well. Like, uh, I, I still believe that you can throw a dart at any calendar weekend, uh, throughout the year and you will find a place to sell and buy your handmade stuff or buy handmade stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, the problem with that growth is, uh, like any market, you know, saturation.

Saturation. Uh, you know, I... You can go to a coffee shop and, you know, pick up some handmade trinkets. You can go into a corporate setting and they wanna host a pop-up. Like, we get a lotta emails like, "Hey," like, "we're trying to do this thing for the first time. We'd love to get some, some craft vendors." So we've kinda become, like, pieces of flair. So you- So, like- You have to test the-

A craft fair in, like, a corporate cafeteria? Uh-huh. Okay. Yeah. Uh, and again, I understand their, their ideas for it. You know, they wanna give their, their employees something to do during a lunch hour-

Right ... or, you know, invite their family in. But, you know, you have to have... In order for it to be sustainable, like, you know, you have to have good quality vendors, and the people that are gonna go to events like that or sell at events like that are probably the people that are still the ones just starting to create that Etsy account. Right. Um, so the caliber of artist, um, you might find one or two really good ones, but for the most part, those are the people that are still testing their, like, trying to find their marketplace.

Right. Um, so with that comes, you know, a lot of saturation, uh, and it just means, you know, on my end, you know, I have to work harder to continue to allow myself to be, uh, or, or Outlaws to continue to be a unique experience and find new, unique vendors that you can't find anywhere else. So- But are you guy- from a business sense, are you taking a- advantage of opportunities like that and trying, like, 'cause you only do two events a year. So are you dedicated to only those two events a year, or are you doing partnership events? For the most part, that's where we are.

Okay. I mean, we partnered with Independence Day. Right. Um, so and it was just, like, a smaller version of what we do.

Mm-hmm. So instead of- Well, but it was still big for, for what it... Its foot- Oh, yeah

... its footprint in Independence Day was quite big. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so, uh, we've slowly started to do things like that, uh, but at this point, if someone's gonna invite us to participate in something, I almost want it to be an experience where it's not people selling things. Okay. I almost want it to be, like, we partnered with the, um, with the museum in 2016, uh, Columbus Museum of Art, and it was, we hosted, like, a DIY activity, like a competition.

Okay. So, like, families could come in and, like, create something with, like, I don't know, googly eyes and, and old CMA postcards, and, like, we, like, had them craft battle one another. And so it's more about, like, that experience of, like, taking crafts in and, like, getting hands-on and making something because the more that I can teach the general public the process of how you make something- Mm-hmm ... through any type of DIY workshop or experience, you get a better appreciation of, oh, that was really hard to make, and what I made had googly eyes and felt on it.

Right. And this item cost $50. I have, like, a small idea of, like, somebody actually put time and thought into it. Right. And it didn't look like a train wreck. Like, it's well made. They might have gone to CCAD. Like, that is worth something, and it helps, you know, on, on our end it helps, you know, them buy things and have a better appreciation of the people that are at our events. So I would rather start getting into that, um, that experience of, like, DIY and, like, really encouraging, you know, either hosting workshops or, you know, encouraging and supporting the people that are already doing that 'cause I want the consumer to have a better idea of there's a serious thought process that goes behind a well-crafted, well-made object. And I want them to know that, yes, you could go to any department store and buy it for a fraction of the price, but you could also go to a local independent craft show or retailer and know that there's a story and there's a person behind it.

Right. Um, so that's more of, like, where I want to see Outlaws go. Great. You can get more information, links to Midwest Craft Con, Craftin' Outlaws, and Stinky Bomb Soap in the show notes at theconfluencecast.com. Megan, thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much for having me. Appreciate it.

Thank you for listening to The Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite crafter. If you're interested in sponsoring The Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a good week.

Transcript11,875 words

Tim Fulton Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, we explore the craft scene in Columbus with maker maven Megan Green, who heads up the Midwest Craft Con and Craftin' Outlaws. We talk about the many hats that you need to wear, both figuratively and literally, in business, and we discuss the difference between a craft business and a traditional business. Spoiler alert, there is no difference. Uh, Megan and I sat down on the occasion of the upcoming Midwest Craft Con February 10th through 12th. If you're interested in attending the convention, you can get 20% off the full three-day ticket price on their website midwestcraftcon.com with promo code CRAFTCBUS. You can get more information on what we discuss today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Enjoy the interview. Sitting down here with Megan Green from Midwest Craft Con. She's the executive director of Glitter for Midwest Craft Con, also the event organizer for Craftin' Outlaws and the proprietor of Stinky Bomb Soap. Megan, how are you?

Megan Green I'm great. How are you?

Tim Fulton Good. Thank you so much for coming in. First of all, give us the elevator pitch on Midwest Craft Con.

Megan Green Uh, we are a three-day creative retreat for mid-level creative entrepreneurs. We get everybody together for a great big giant slumber party, uh, currently at the Hyatt Downtown in Columbus, and we provide them with inspirational keynotes, sessions, uh, fun hands-on craftivities that happen throughout the course of the weekend, and that's the simplest elevator speech I could give.

Tim Fulton That's good.

Megan Green It could go on for days.

Tim Fulton No, that's perfect. So what, uh, is this the first year of it?

Megan Green This is our second year.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And originally it was started in 2011. Um, Olivera Bradich of Holy Craft created the first one. It was Midwest Craft Caucus.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And she did a phenomenal job, and it lived in infamy, and it was one of those things where people were on social media like, "When's this gonna happen again?" And she rocked it. Like, she did an amazing job. It was held over at ECDI.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green But, uh, you know, she runs a craft mecca down in Clintonville, and she has bigger and better goals for herself, and she was just like, "Uh, I'm kinda done with this. Um, I'll just leave it here in this tangent world. And if anybody wants to take it on, um, here it lies." And I slowly kind of brought it back to life and then got two amazing business partners, and we revived it.

Tim Fulton And-

Megan Green And re- rebranded it and renamed it, and now it's a nonprofit.

Tim Fulton Your co-organizers also run craft fairs.

Megan Green They do. They're kind of like, uh, they're Craft Outlaws', um, equivalencies in, uh, in their own cities, and they do their own thing. And, um, and, uh, we've all kind of known each other online. Brit was actually, my, my partner in Akron, was the only one I'd never met. She actually, we did our first in-person retreat. We had kind of started this through emails. Uh, her nonprofit, uh, Crafty Mart in Akron, had just received that status, and she wanted to get into doing some kind of like trade show or, like, hands-on sessions for makers. And I had already kind of mentioned, uh, to Grace at some point, uh, my partner in, uh, in Cincinnati, that, uh, I kinda wanted to revive Craft Con or Craft Caucus at that point.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Um, Olivera gave me her blessing. So Grace gave me the introduction email, and we just started, Brit and I just started chatting, and Grace was like, "Well, I want in on this thing, too." So we decided we were gonna go to a conference in Palm Springs.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So we all met for the first time, um, and actually started brainstorming together, uh, in California. And, uh-

Tim Fulton Did you go to Palm Springs with the idea of we need to see what another conference looks like?

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green This was, uh, it was, um, XOXO. It's kinda like a, um, it, it's just like a very, Yes By Yes, I believe, is what it was called. Sorry, not XOXO. Yes By Yes. So it's kind of like a very unconference. So you literally are in a pool all weekend with cocktails, and there's no specific session in mind. Like, there's no keynote. There's, uh, anybody could bring to the environment what they want.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And they basically release an app like 48 hours before the conference ha- actually happens, and it's one of the, one of the longtime attendees created the app for them.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And you literally just get on and say, "Hey, I wanna talk about, you know, wearing different hats, uh, in my creative small business life," and you're literally in a pool wearing crazy hats with cocktail in hand. Or-

Tim Fulton Oh, I'm sorry. You're not talking about accountant, lawyer, monster.

Megan Green No, no, no. It's, it's very much like a-

Tim Fulton You're talking about literal hats

Megan Green ... yes, yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green You're, you're actually wearing different hats. And, and every five minutes, like, you kind of, like, switch hats. And, uh, it's all a, you know, a, a representation of who we are as creatives and the different roles that we take on and how, you know, as a small business owner, you are wearing so many different hats on top-

Tim Fulton Yeah

Megan Green ... of, you know, being a parent or whatever.

Tim Fulton So I guess I could have gotten there in terms of figuring out that there were unconferences because they're un everything else.

Megan Green Yes. Yeah.

Tim Fulton But d- do you have to pay in addition to, like, staying at the hotel?

Megan Green Yes. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Do you have to pay for the unconference?

Megan Green There's, there's a... Yes, you do. You have to pay for the unconference, you have to pay for your hotel room, pay for your flight out there. Uh, and as a-

Tim Fulton And you get a, you get an unbadge and-

Megan Green You, uh, there's no, there are no name tags, uh, there.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green For the most part, like, your phone stays in the room 'cause you're in a hotel, you're in a pool.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, so, uh, uh, and as a Midwesterner, it was hard to wrap my head around this philosophy of-

Tim Fulton Yeah

Megan Green ... there's no schedule. I don't know anybody here. And I've, you know, uh, Brit, when she picked me up at the airport, it was like 11:00 at night when my flight rolled in, and she was like, "Oh, I'm in like a gray rental car." I was like, I was just, like, randomly going up to cars like, "Are you Brit from Akron?" So, um, uh, but Grace had gone to this, uh, conference several times, and she had actually spent her summer abroad in, uh, Germany. So she flew back in to experience this conference. She was already going. Uh, Brit happened to be in a wedding. Uh, and then they were like, "You should come." And I was like, "Uh..."

Tim Fulton So once you sort of settle in-

Megan Green Yeah

Tim Fulton Would you say that this conference is based off of that conference?

Megan Green Some of the ideas are based off of that.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Again, going back to that, like I had-

Tim Fulton 'Cause this is-

Megan Green I was uncomfortable

Tim Fulton ... your f- your conference, the Mi- the Midwest Craft Con is a formal conference.

Megan Green Correct. We have specific keynotes that are gonna give you a, a wonderful, inspirational, uh-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... a warm, fuzzy feeling inside, uh, focused around handmade and creative entrepreneurs. We have, um, you know, marketing, we have, you know, bookkeeping, like all the traditional components of a traditional conference-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... are all gonna be there. But we also have lots of, um, like free time. It's all about what some of our attendees want. So when we had our first event in 2016, somebody organized a trade swap, so anybody could just meet up. We basically gave them the room, we gave them the time.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green And, um, they were able to coordinate, you know, these are the parameters of the trade. Like, this is the price point. So somebody organized that. Another group from, um, Pittsburgh, they're the organizers of Handmade Arcade-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... which is like a, an outlaws version of, of their show in Pittsburgh, organized Googly Eye University, which was a program where you could literally sit down with old vintage magazines and put googly eyes on things and draw, and it was, it sounds like the most basic concept with a fancy title.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, but it's like the most simple, mundane craft, but it was like a, the hit of the party. Like, everybody loved it.

Tim Fulton Well, 'cause you end up with a unique thing that you've never seen before.

Megan Green Correct.

Tim Fulton But it's a simple thing.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton But, yeah.

Megan Green Yeah. Um, and then, uh, uh, somebody coordinated a, um, you know, retailers, um, that had brick-and-mortar shops, like they got together and they were like, "Let's talk about like POS systems."

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So it was all about like you've got all those people there, like what can you as, like what do you wanna experience while you're here that we aren't like, that's not sanctioned by us. Um, and we just give them the time and the space and the parameters and the, the no glitter rule.

Tim Fulton So it's a lot like, I've been to South by Southwest, and it's a lot like South by Southwest in that you're sort, you sort of, there it's democratized to the point that like some people's talks aren't gonna happen, but people submit and say, "I wanna do this."

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton And you say, "Yeah, that's fine."

Megan Green Yep. Yep.

Tim Fulton Much like, actually a more local comparison is Independence Day.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton Somebody comes at the appropriate time and says, "I wanna do X, Y, Z thing."

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton And they say, "Okay, what do you need?"

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton Like, what do you need-

Megan Green Yep

Tim Fulton ... to make it happen?

Megan Green Very, very similar in a lot of ways.

Tim Fulton We'll facilitate it, but you gotta do it.

Megan Green Yes. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green And we're not putting the, like we're not asking people, like, like with an Independence Day, we're not asking people to like create the, the atmosphere and the environment.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Like, it's literally just like the little tiny things. Like how can you create the community that you want at these environments, whether you're a jewelry vendor or, or a jewelry maker-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... and you wanna meet other jewelry makers, um, specific to beading or specific to metalsmithing. Like, you can just say like, "Hey, like metalsmithers, I wanna meet somewhere randomly within the conference."

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green "And we can get together and we can totally talk shop." Um, or you know, "I wanna get together with some googly eyes and some felt and I wanna make something really cool. I'll be at this table." Um, and then we also do fun things like, um, we have karaoke. We did a, a crafty spelling bee last year.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, so again, there's a few things that we do, we do plan for, but, uh, we really wanna encourage people to think outside the box and, and make it their own event.

Tim Fulton And the, the conference is a, is a nonprofit.

Megan Green We are. We just, um, started, uh, our nonprofit or we're approved with our nonprofit status in, uh, the summer of 2016. So when we-

Tim Fulton Oh, that was fast.

Megan Green Yeah. When we first started, we used, uh, the Crafty Mart nonprofit. They were our fiscal sponsor.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So, um, we were open, able to open up a lot of doors, um, through that, and then we realized like, oh, we should probably be our own legit thing. And so, uh, it took a while. Um, actually when we met in California for the Yes Buy convention was when we were actually all together, so we all signed the paperwork there, and then we mailed it when we got home.

Tim Fulton Because that does, that is a process that takes sometimes a year, sometimes a year and a half.

Megan Green It does. It got expedited very quickly. Um-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... uh, Brit having already been experienced in the nonprofit world, um, knew some tricks, so it didn't take very long. And so-

Tim Fulton And she was able to do some copy and pasting, I imagine, to sort of-

Megan Green I imagine so, yeah

Tim Fulton ... get it, get it done.

Megan Green Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Get it done.

Megan Green And, and again, c- since we had already kind of been established, we already had a lot of our missions and-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... um, yeah. But it's definitely, it's been very helpful in allowing us to create kind of a ripple effect for not only our attendees, but the kind of the handmade community at large within the Midwest area.

Tim Fulton How many attendees do you guys have?

Megan Green We had 180 for the first one.

Tim Fulton Wow. Okay.

Megan Green Um, so, and that included our speakers. That included, you know, uh, I was gonna say the three of us, and then I remember that Brit had, uh, found out sh- after she got back from California that she was expecting. So she actually had a due date, I think, the week after the event.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And she went ahead and, um-

Tim Fulton She said, "Mm, I'm gonna miss this one, you guys."

Megan Green Well, she wound up having the baby early.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So she was like, "I could go," and we're like, "Stay home with your baby. Like, you don't have to come." So it was a little bittersweet because, you know, she had spent, you know, a year of her time-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... devoting towards this, uh, experience, and she got to experience it virtually. Uh, and we have a private Facebook page for all of our attendees, so in that, like w- while we don't have an app feature, um, it's literally like you just go on Facebook and you say, "Hey, I wanna do this, and, you know, meet me at the food court, and we'll talk about whatever that topic might be." Um, so she kinda got to experience virtually. Uh-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... and we also created a little, um, foam core cutout, and, uh, we had a hashtag Feel The Brit, so we got to like just include her in little odds and ends experiences that she got to live through the hashtag.

Tim Fulton So this year you'll be making crafting great again, or?

Megan Green We will definitely be doing that, yeah.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Megan Green And, and with, with Brit, uh, by our side. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Good. Good. Talk a little bit about, Megan, how did you get into crafting?

Megan Green My background has always been, uh, I've loved diving into things and having like a DIY experience.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So, uh, and I remember with my parents, um, there was like a little storefront. I grew up in Lima, Ohio. There was a little storefront, and my dad and I were always just like, "Oh, we'll turn that into a flower shop, and he'll do this, and I'll do this." And so I always remember having-

Tim Fulton Just as like a dream sort of-

Megan Green Just as like, yeah-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... like a little silly dad-daughter pipe dream.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So I've always had like this like little entrepreneurial spirit, and I've always taught myself how to like dabble in soaps and dry flowers and, um, make candles. So I've always just had this like knowledge to want to learn how s- you know, how to make things happen. It's always been a very creative, um, experience for me.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Um, and so I started just making things and slowly like, you know, learned about things like Etsy, and there used to be something called the Switchboards, which was like a handmade forum for people to like c- talk about their, you know, crafty little, um, endeavors.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, and then slowly, somehow, um, Stinky Bomb came to be, and that was kind of my, my big introduction into the handmade world. I'd had one-

Tim Fulton Can I ask what you were doing professionally before that?

Megan Green Uh, nothing.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green I was working at a picture framing shop, and I-

Tim Fulton Well, that's not nothing

Megan Green ... took a couple of... Well, I was, I was, I was maintaining bills.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And, uh, I had dropped out of community college, and so I was just A dabbler, and I like to explore things, and-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... um, everything's self-taught. So, um-

Tim Fulton And there's a c- there's a cute story on the Midwest Craft Con site about how your husband does replica hand grenades.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton And so you found a- so, had a mold sitting out. You knew how to make soap.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton And you were like, that... 'Cause it actually, it is one of those things that when it first came along, what seven years ago at this point?

Megan Green I think Stinky Bomb has been around for eight or nine years.

Tim Fulton Okay, so when it first-

Megan Green Yeah

Tim Fulton ... came ar- around, I think I was introduced to it at, like a craft fair or something, and I was like, "That's the best idea for soap I've ever seen."

Megan Green I like-

Tim Fulton 'Cause it- it fits perfectly in your hand. It's a hand grenade.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton It's meant to be that.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton It is... Is it only hand grenades?

Megan Green No, we've evolved.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So, um, but the- the- the- the- the background for Stinky Bomb was, uh, yeah, my husband, um, works for an industrial design firm in town, and he is, ah, one of his many hobbies is he's a World War II re-enactor.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So they were out on one of their mock battlefields, and I've never been to one of these events, so I'm just gonna, like quotation mark what that means.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green And you can fill in your own-

Tim Fulton Nobody email or tweet-

Megan Green ... your own vision

Tim Fulton ... angry things.

Megan Green Um, so, uh, he was on one of their mock battlefields, and they were playing out in the woods, and somebody brought, for whatever reason, like, their grandfather's World War II dagger.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And, uh, I don't know why they had an actual knife in- in fake battle, but they did. And it got lost, and everyone stopped what they were doing 'cause it's worth something.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, so they all stopped. They, um, eventually found it, and he's like, "You know, I could probably, like, cast that and make a replica for it."

Tim Fulton 'Cause that's something else your husband does.

Megan Green Yes, yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So I could, I could do that for you, and, uh, then you don't have to bring that around when we go out in the woods and- and play, uh, World War II army men. And, um-

Tim Fulton Well, there's also a safety issue there, too, right?

Megan Green I think so, yeah.

Tim Fulton Like, I grew up-

Megan Green Yeah

Tim Fulton ... in theater. You don't have real knives on stage.

Megan Green You- you- you do not. But I don't, I think this was just, like, a private thing. I don't think it's sanctioned by anything.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So I don't even know that they have insurance. It's literally, like, a bunch of Boy Scouts just out in the field camping and- and playing war.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green And I'm sure he's gonna hate me for saying all this, but-

Tim Fulton No

Megan Green ... that- that's my, that's my con- my synopsis of what he does.

Tim Fulton What is your husband's name?

Megan Green His name's Rob.

Tim Fulton Shout out to Rob.

Megan Green Thanks, Rob. Um, so he, uh, he took that, uh, concept and, uh, the other friends on the battlefield, you know, enjoyed it, and so he's created his own, like, e-commerce site. Um, and he's been doing that for about 10 years, and then, uh, we had our first child, and I was home with her, and he was working out of our house at that point, and he's very messy. So he had one of those molds just sitting around. And again, I've been a dabbler, so I knew how to make soap in, like, traditional fight club soap, where you incorporate fats and lyes.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green And then I also knew that there was such a thing as melt and pour soap, which is basically someone's done all of that for you. It's glycerin based. All you have to do is just melt it down in a double broiler and add some fragrance and some scents, and you can literally make any type of soap that you want-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... in any shape that you want. And knowing that it was a, uh, a grenade mold, I knew that I couldn't do the traditional lye soap.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So I just ran to the craft store, grabbed the- the raw materials, which in hindsight, like, they're terrible stuff, like the stuff that you can just buy at, like a Jo-Ann's or a Michael's. Like, it's not good quality stuff. There's better raw ingredients out there.

Tim Fulton Well, I was about to ask you, is that still how you do it? Like-

Megan Green It is. Like, the melt and pour process is still what I use, but I use a higher grade, um, base.

Tim Fulton Okay. But you're not creating the base.

Megan Green I am not creating the base.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green I'm adding flavor, I'm adding color.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Uh, you're paying for the experience and the novelty of the shape and the design. So I- I took one of his molds, and Stinky Bomb was formed, and, um, we've gone and we've evolved from there, and literally whenever I have an idea in my head, I just say, "Hey, you know what'd be funny? Baby head soaps. You know what'd be funny? Ohnoio soap." So it's just slowly evolved, and he makes the molds for me, and then I run everything else.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Uh, and it's really, we don't really have any other, um... Our businesses don't really cross anymore. It's just, um, when I have an idea and he has time to execute it. Um, other than that, we don't really, yeah, we don't really cross.

Tim Fulton And so St- and Stinky Bomb Soap is available, I assume, at Holey Craft.

Megan Green It's available at Holey Craft. Uh, I think we- we're also available at Igloo Letter Press.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And then our online site, it's basically just through Etsy now.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green It's kinda become, like, my passive income. I don't put as much time and energy into it anymore. Um, it still exists online, and I just kind of allow it to- to live, and, uh, I've got other things that I'm actively trying to pursue, so I just kinda let it live and, um-

Tim Fulton And when you run outta soap, you make some more soap.

Megan Green And then, yep, yep. So it's just a, uh, a, a drop ship type of situation. You order it, I make it, it goes out the door.

Tim Fulton Okay. And I wanna get back to Etsy in a bit. Craft and Outlaws, for those that don't know, what is Craft and Outlaws?

Megan Green Uh, we are an alternative craft fair in our 12th year, and we are a marketplace for people like myself, people that would make things like Stinky Bomb Soaps or, or jewelry, who, um, rent a booth from us. We provide the venue. We rent, they rent their booth from us, and then we attract, um, shoppers and consumers to come in and buy their items directly from them.

Tim Fulton Great. Is that held at a static location at this point?

Megan Green For the most part, yeah. We're at Highline Carhouse, uh, for our spring event, and then we're, uh, now at the convention center, um, for our holiday show. And-

Tim Fulton Great

Megan Green ... uh, we-

Tim Fulton And this all got started as, if I recall correctly, back at Scully's, right?

Megan Green It, yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So the, the founder of Craft and Outlaws, Liz Recino, was just an artist who, uh, was having a hard time finding a proper place to sell her items.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And this was back in 2005. In, like, t- timeframe history, like, um, Etsy had just started.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Um, Holey Craft had just started.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green And Craft and Outlaws had just started. And-

Tim Fulton So it is two events a year, correct?

Megan Green Ours is two events a year, yep, spring and, and, uh, the holiday show.

Tim Fulton Are there other craft fairs that people can check out?

Megan Green Oh, yeah, there's... Columbus has a wide variety of, of fairs, from small pop-ups to other large, you know, uh, shows on the, on the level of what we do now.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, uh, yeah, there are we... I, I always say, like, any more, like at any given time, any given weekend, you can find a place to shop handmade at a fair in Columbus. Uh, so when we first started, there was nothing like it around. Uh-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... closest place you could find it would probably have been in Pittsburgh.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And, uh, then they were in LA and, and New York. So, uh, Liz, um, needed a place to sell her stuff. She wasn't getting into traditional shows, and, like, church bazaars weren't her scene. So she was like, "I'll, I already know about these crafters happening."

Tim Fulton What did, what was she, what was her sort of primary craft?

Megan Green She did kind of like rockabilly stuff.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, so, like, bowling pins, uh, that she would paint, uh, with little, like, rockabilly girls, like our Craft and Outlaws- ... sassy cowgirl-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... was her design. So it was a lot of, like, that type of an aesthetic.

Tim Fulton So that up next to grandma's quilts-

Megan Green Didn't really work

Tim Fulton ... didn't really fit.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Yeah. So she, you know, created her own thing, and it was held in Scully's, and she had people lining up out the door to come in and shop. And I think it started with maybe 40 vendors.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Again, I was, uh, not the first year. Uh, I think I was finally a vendor. 'Cause again, it was one of those things, it was hard to get into. Like-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... uh, it was so small, but the, the, there was already a, a client base, uh, as an exhibitor. Um, so it was really hard to get into, and eventually one year I got in, and slowly, like, she was on her way out. She decided she wanted to go to grad school and asked-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... if anybody wanted to step in, and I was one of many who stepped up, and then it just kinda became, I, I found, you know, that no one was really becoming the leader. And I was like, "I, you know, just had a kid. Like, I, I could do this."

Tim Fulton I've got some time.

Megan Green Yeah, so-

Tim Fulton I don't have a full-time job right now.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So she, uh, basically, you know, very, very nicely handed me everything, and I've just kinda been learning from there. And granted, she had some documents that I could, you know, go off of, but it was-

Tim Fulton Right, this is how we did this in the past.

Megan Green Yeah, but it was all, you know, like, brand new and, um, uh, so I've just been learning and growing and expanding with it. And, uh, it's gotten to the point now where I don't sell my stuff anymore. Like, Stinky Bomb is not really present at my fair because-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... I'm running the event. I'm doing other things, so.

Tim Fulton So are you doing fairs still, like, with Stinky Bomb?

Megan Green Uh, I don't do as many anymore.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, just because other things have taken place, and it gets harder when your kids get older.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Megan Green Um-

Tim Fulton Does it?

Megan Green It does. It does. I don't think it ever gets any easier, um, I think until they're probably on their own and can watch themselves. But, you know, we both have, my husband and I both have very busy schedules, and there's always something going on. And to stop everything you're doing so that somebody else can leave for the weekend-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... is, is a strain. Um-

Tim Fulton Yeah

Megan Green ... so, uh, uh, and I'm not the... Like, I have respect for people that bring their kids to our shows 'cause I don't have the tolerance or the patience for it. Like, I'm there to work. I don't need-

Tim Fulton Oh, you mean crafters bringing their kids.

Megan Green Crafters, yeah.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Makers bringing their kids to, like, I don't have any, I don't have a problem against it, but my kids aren't chill enough to just sit there behind a table. Um, and-

Tim Fulton Yeah, mine is not either.

Megan Green Yeah, so, uh-

Tim Fulton I was hoping that maybe you'd say, "It gets easier."

Megan Green Uh, not for me. Uh, some people make it work. We, we are not those people. So, uh, so I don't do as many fairs anymore. I would love to it. Like, I think the last one I did was in the spring, and, uh, I realized how much I missed it. Like, there's such a energy-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... 'cause everyone's setting up, and then there's so much, like, talk. Like, "Oh, did you do this?" And like, there's, it's like a g- giant water cooler moment.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Uh, especially during the setup and then when, you know, when there's, if there's a lull. You know, you get some downtime. You get to, like, network. You get to meet those people, which is what, you know, going back to Craft Con, um, that's why it's so great. Like, I get to see those people that I only get to see for, like, a couple of hours during setup, and then they were way in the other room, so I didn't get to see them again, or I follow them on social media. So, um-

Tim Fulton Well, and like other specific conferences, you are not often surrounded by people who are doing exactly what you're doing.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton And people who understand, oh, you know, I was up until 4:00 in the morning doing this because that's just sort of the nature of it.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton It's like you start working on it, and you gotta keep going for eight hours in order to get it all done.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton And it doesn't, let's go ahead and get into the business end of crafting a little bit. I don't imagine a whole lot of the people that are at Craft and Outlaws are getting a f- full-time compensation for that work.

Megan Green Uh, I would say a small amount of them are.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green I would say maybe 10, 15%, but for the most, like, like, doing it, like-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... making a living off of it.

Tim Fulton Give me, can, l-

Megan Green Um-

Tim Fulton So let's talk about that. First of all, people in Columbus that are doing that, like roughly.

Megan Green Um, I'm, t- top of my head I can think of, you know, Allison Rose.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Uh, Nick and Allison Necera.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Um, uh, uh, the Smithery folks.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, I mean, definitely Oliveira from Holy Craft. Um, uh, Red Giraffe. Uh, there's a lot of people who, um-

Tim Fulton And these are people that from my familiarity with them, other than the Smithery, like, those other people, Allison Rose and Nick and Red Giraffe, they're doing sort of consumer goods, right?

Megan Green They are, b- and, and it's, it's a, an issue of they've, you know, they have their product line, and they are supplementing it one way or another. Um, and, and I think that's a, that's the key if you want to try to make it.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green I think people, crafters especially, get sold on that, like, quit your day job-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... scenario, and it's really hard-

Tim Fulton Well, 'cause it's, it's a-

Megan Green ... to do that

Tim Fulton ... work from home. I, you can do it in your, quote-unquote, "spare time," like, if you have kids. And you can just do, like, and it's a whole lot cooler than selling Avon.

Megan Green Absolutely. Absolutely.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Yeah. Uh, but it's harder because Avon, you know, you, you basically, you're, you're buying a, a raw material probably made, I don't know where they make their stuff. Uh, but you're basically reselling it.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Versus not only are you selling this, you're making it, you're producing it, you're marketing it, so like-

Tim Fulton You're pricing it.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton You're-

Megan Green So again, going back to that, you know, like, you're gonna wear a lot of the hats in a pool in California. Like, you're wearing many, many hats when you're a, um, a small creative entrepreneur. Um, and, uh-

Tim Fulton I can't get over the hat thing. I'm sorry.

Megan Green You know. Uh, it's a metaphor for life.

Tim Fulton It's a metaphor, but it's also literal.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton Put on this hat in a pool. So talk about, let's, let's circle back a little bit to the Midwest Craft Con. You s- very specifically said this is for mid-level crafters.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton So this is for people who already have sort of chosen what they want to craft.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton This is not someone who just says, "I think I want to craft."

Megan Green Correct.

Tim Fulton 'Cause they'll be a little bit out of their league there.

Megan Green Yes. We're not gonna give you the basics of how to start an Etsy sop, shop.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green We're not gonna give you the basics of how to, you know, create a URL. Like, we are, we are hoping and assuming, especially if you're gonna, you know, cr- If you're gonna spend the, if you're gonna create the expense of joining us for the weekend, you know-

Tim Fulton 'Cause it's 200 bucks plus a hotel.

Megan Green Yep. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So for the most part, you're, you're probably somebody that's, that is a mid-career maker who's willing to put that into it.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, so, uh-

Tim Fulton But there are talks on legal issues.

Megan Green Correct.

Tim Fulton There are talks on accounting and taxes.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton I imagine there's some talk about, like, intellectual property.

Megan Green Uh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Uh, we have a, a guy that joined us last year who, uh, came in and spoke a lot about, you know, like, intellectual property rights and, uh, and contracts, you know, as people start upping up their, their, their handmade game and, like-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... starting contracts with either large corporations or, like, Target or, you know, all these, all these companies-

Tim Fulton Or shops like Holy Craft.

Megan Green Yeah, yeah. Like, you wanna make sure that your, you know, your, your documents are, are where they need to be and that you know what your rights are. And, and again, while they're not giving you specific legal advice, 'cause you'd have to hire the lawyer-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... to do that, but they're giving you, like, the, the vague overview of, um, or these are the things that you need to know. And even our speakers, um, you know, are sitting in. Like, these are the people that are, you know, teaching-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... the, the people that are attending. Like, they're sitting in on these lessons too, because you always need to remember or kind of be reminded, um, even if you're doing this as a full-time gig, you're, you always need to be reminded of some of those things that you kind of let fall to the side because you get-

Tim Fulton Or haven't had to think about because you didn't have a contract like that-

Megan Green Yes

Tim Fulton ... for a while.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So we're trying to create a very broad range of any and everybody, from the, the keynote to some of our sponsors that are attending to, to the attendees themselves, are gonna take away something from this. And some of them are very, like, business focused and some of them are, like, you know, staying in love with your business.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green You know, like, how do you, how do you-

Tim Fulton Keep things fresh in your marriage.

Megan Green Yeah. How do you keep, like, you know, spending, you know, all those late hours at night, like, crafting your jewelry or making your soap or screen printing and still want to come back to work the next day?

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Or find a way to fit it into your time when you're raising kids or, you know, doing all the other things that we do, um, keeping your day job. So we have a lot of those, like, side focused sessions, and then we have panels and, uh, and other things like that.

Tim Fulton That's great. Talk about, so Crafting Outlaws has sort of a selection process. You have a panel of people that decides-

Megan Green Yes

Tim Fulton ... who gets into that.

Megan Green Yeah. We're a curated event, so people apply. We have, like, you know, three months the, the applications stay open and then they all get looked at and reviewed. And we're looking at everything from, you know, your photos to your price points to your aesthetic to, you know, any and everything we can think of, and we're always looking for a wide range of genres.

Tim Fulton And is there any sort of back and forth with the vendor in terms of, like, "Hey, all your stuff is really great, but it's too expensive"?

Megan Green Um-

Tim Fulton Or is it really sort of you're taking what the submission is?

Megan Green We're taking what the submission is.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So we typically have people, like, provide us your, um, your website, provide us one product descri- or one product photograph, and then a, a general product description-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... of your brand, and then, uh, we always ask for, like, a marketing statement, like an elevator speech. Like, give us a-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... like, if we, if we're gonna sell you, you sell us your stuff very quickly.

Tim Fulton Well, 'cause you, then you can reuse it and put it up on your website.

Megan Green Yeah. It makes my job a little bit easier.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, but we tend to look at, like, we, I know now, like, what typically somebody comes to our show, even the spring show versus the holiday show, what a consumer's gonna spend when they come.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green So if your price point is outside of that, like, I would get worried that, you know, if you're selling something that's $100 a pop, there's a good chance that you might only sell one or two. Like-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... do I wanna take the risk? Because you're gonna have a bad experience if you only sell two or three.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green And you're gonna hold us Outlaws accountable for that. So I am, that's what part of the jury process is.

Tim Fulton You're gonna hold the Outlaws accountable for it. What's sort of unclear to me at this point, Midwest Craft Con is a nonprofit. Is Crafting Outlaws a nonprofit?

Megan Green We are not. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay. So you are paid by Crafting Outlaws-

Megan Green Yes

Tim Fulton ... to sort of administer these two events-

Megan Green Yes

Tim Fulton ... a year.

Megan Green Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton Is there staff? You have an assistant?

Megan Green I have an assistant, yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Uh, and another one who just went to nursing school, so we kinda lost her, but we gained a lovely person in Mallory, who is a, is a maker, is a sewer, um, and-

Tim Fulton Shout out to Mallory.

Megan Green Yeah. Thanks, Mallory.

Tim Fulton Talk about the difference between organizing a craft fair and a conference. First of all, sort of the similarities too. This is where we get into the nuts and bolts-

Megan Green Okay

Tim Fulton ... of, like, how do you do what you do?

Megan Green Okay. All right.

Tim Fulton Um, talk about the, what are the similarities between doing a craft fair and a conference?

Megan Green Okay. I will start with, with, like, a craft fair. I feel that I have, like, three people that hold me accountable to do my job well.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And the first would be the vendors, the people that are applying, submitting money, which basically covers that venue fee for the day.

Tim Fulton 'Cause those are your clients.

Megan Green Those are my clients.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green And then the second would be my sponsors. They're the people who help offset some of that additional cost so I can keep those vendor fees down. So I need to keep them happy and do marketing, not only for those exhibitors, for, for those sponsors. And then the-

Tim Fulton And who are, like, your primary sponsors for-

Megan Green Um, be- because Crafting Outlaws is not a nonprofit, like, we are very small. Like, we are very DIY, and a lot of those have been, like, the vendors that have gone on to open brick-and-mortar shops.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, or just some, like, general partnerships that we have throughout the community. So, you know, Holy Craft, which again, why we always get confused for one another, 'cause she's been around for as long as we have.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So we've been promoting her for as long as we've been promoting ourselves. You know, Nick & Allyson and, and Igloo and The Smithery and, um, Yarn It and Haberdashery. Again, these are one-time vendors who have gone on to create brick-and-mortar shops.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green And so that's typically who we try to, like, bring in, one, it means that they're gonna come to our events and we love them and they're great. Their, their quality of work is great.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, but then we're also helping to support them throughout the year as well. Um, so-

Tim Fulton But what, so just for those that sort of aren't aware, what you mean when you say you're not a nonprofit, this is not a write-off for them. It's not a donation that they're making.

Megan Green It is not. No.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green This is a marketing expense for them.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So we have our exhibitors, we have our sponsors, and then we have the consumer. So those are the people that we are trying to target to come in and spend those money to keep the exhibitors and the sponsors happy.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green So it's a very, you know, it's like a, it's a, it's a trifecta, and it's my job to make sure that all of them are happy, and again, we are constantly like, "What can we do to attract new people?" And, and at first, when we first started, like, at Scully's, like, the response was so great, but you couldn't navigate that space if you had-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... a stroller, if you, you know, had a couple kids with you. Like, it was impossible. And then as we kept growing, more people wanted to come in, and then the feedback was, you know, "I wish we had more room," or, like, "We're tucked into this little corner trying to sell our stuff. Like, it's really awkward. I'm feeling really claustrophobic."

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So then it became, you know, well, how do we make those concerns valid? Like, the shopper has an issue, the, uh, the exhibitor has an issue, so, like, we were then constantly like, "What kind of space can we find?" And we finally found that at the convention center. But that means, you know, we've gone from this DIY, like, small budget venue to this massive venue. You know, thank goodness they're not a union 'cause we wouldn't be able to, like, touch or do anything. But-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... so then we've gone to, you know, a $65 table fee to a $200 10-by-10 booth and, you know, that's a big jump.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Megan Green Uh, and again, f- For that curation process, again, that's why we're, we're selectively trying to find people that, you know, we want them to make a return on their investment. This isn't like a-

Tim Fulton The holiday show is the bigger show, right?

Megan Green D- definitely.

Tim Fulton Obviously.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton So how many applicants do you, on average, have a year for that?

Megan Green Uh, 200 to 300.

Tim Fulton How many booth spaces do you have?

Megan Green 100.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So we're, we are spending three to five hours looking at people, and I kinda like go through them as they come in, and then we have a little meeting and we discuss, you know, who we like, who we don't like, and we have a, you know, a yes, an alternative, and like a no. Like-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... they either, they either don't fit our aesthetic or, um, it's just not who we-

Tim Fulton Well, and what I was gonna ask about the selection process is do you sort, do you have that committee together? One, ease to sort of divide up the load, and also your brain can't think all the time about like, "Do I have enough jewelry vendors? Do I have enough greeting card vendors? Do I have enough fiber arts vendors?"

Megan Green Y- yeah.

Tim Fulton And then also, there's also sort of the culpability of it, of, "I, I didn't say no."

Megan Green Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton "This committee said no."

Megan Green Uh, there i- there is a lot of like, it, yeah, it kind of removes the burden off of me specifically.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green But it does help because I feel like the people that are helping with the selection have a different eye than I do.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Like, I feel like they each have their own strengths. More importantly, they each have their own preferences. Like I, and I've learned, again, Mallory, whom I've come to love dearly, um, has a very different aesthetic than I do.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Like, I tend to lean towards things that are a little bit, um, darker, creepier, edgier, um-

Tim Fulton Well, you're making soap out of babies

Megan Green I make soap out of grenade. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green She makes very sweet, delicate, well-crafted, um, bags and purses.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And she has a aesthetic that I, you know, I just, I don't, I don't shop towards.

Tim Fulton It's not yours.

Megan Green Yeah, but I want those people that have her preference to also come and have an amazing experience, so I want you to have a very diverse opportunity when you come to Craftsman Outlaws, that you can see things that you don't see at any of the other fairs. And, and it's a nice thing that what we, what we do offer is, you know, we still get a lot of people from all over the Midwest that come and sell specifically at our events, and you can't find them at any of the other local events. So it's one thing that really gives us a, a leg up.

Tim Fulton Because you are a little bit bigger.

Megan Green Yeah, because we're a little bit bigger-

Tim Fulton And, and more established

Megan Green ... and, and our, and our aesthetic is a little bit different. You know, we don't have an all Ohio themed event. Like, I think you'd be hard-pressed to maybe find like five Ohio items at a Craftsman Outlaws event. Like, we-

Tim Fulton Really?

Megan Green Yeah. We, we just ... We're not looking for that. Like, we are looking for-

Tim Fulton You're bigger than that.

Megan Green Uh, yeah. And we're just-

Tim Fulton You are, you are the arts festival of craft fairs.

Megan Green Of craft fairs. I am. I am. Well, no, and we, again, we want the art to stand out. We don't want it to be so, like, trend focused. We want it to be like we want your, your quality of work to stand out and, and that's why people are coming and, and gravitating and buying these items, because they're well-made. It's not playing into like a Pinterest Mason jar trend. It's, you know, it's just, it's good quality stuff that will stand the test of time and be in your home for a very long time.

Tim Fulton Right. We should say that you work out of Block Fort.

Megan Green I do.

Tim Fulton So Craftsman Outlaws works out of Block Fort.

Megan Green I do, yes.

Tim Fulton You start, you started Stinky Bomb Soap. When you needed a space, you were at Junction View.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton You made the move to Taco Cat. You're still with Adam Berlet at Block Fort.

Megan Green At Block Fort. Yeah, sometimes I still call it Taco Cat or Taco Fort. It's just a-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... subliminal thing.

Tim Fulton Once you're there for a little bit and once-

Megan Green Yeah

Tim Fulton ... everybody sort of ...

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton Is everything done there now?

Megan Green For the most part. Our grand opening's gonna be announced soon.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, so we will have a private opening and then we're gonna have a public opening and I hope that that's cool. Yeah, so we, uh, you know, I was working out of my house and I needed a place to not fill up my table-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... 'cause by then we've had two kids, so, um, you know, they really need that space to eat. My husband was already at Junction View and, uh, a space opened up, so I moved in and I shared a space with Esther, uh, who now operates, uh, Yarn It and Haberdashery.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Megan Green And then, uh, that got torn down in the name of, um-

Tim Fulton Grandview Yard.

Megan Green Yes, yes.

Tim Fulton Nationwide Realty Investors.

Megan Green Yes. And, uh, and then-

Tim Fulton Progress

Megan Green ... Adam coordinated Block Fort.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green I'm sorry. Uh, he coordinated Taco Cat-

Tim Fulton Yeah

Megan Green ... which was a cooperative, so we were all very, like, invested financially and with our labor. Like we helped, you know, put up drywall and, and build the floors and paint everything and that also got torn down in the name of, um, Grandview Yard.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green And now, uh, they have created, Adam and his wife Megan have created Block Fort which is, you know, they are running it, they are managing it-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... and, um, and I'm very happy.

Tim Fulton You're a renter.

Megan Green I, yeah, and I'm very, very happy with that. Like, I like being able to go in and say, "Hey, this problem exists and I don't wanna have to help be in charge of fixing it. I just wanna like pass that information over to you and know that you guys are gonna fix it in, in, uh, in an appropriate amount of time."

Tim Fulton And all the name dropping we're doing here, you can find links to all these people and places and things and vendors in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Let's talk about getting started as a vendor and sort of what the resources are that are available. Midwest Craft Con, not necessarily for someone that is just starting out, not for someone who, let's say the minimum barrier of entry is having a website and having done a craft fair.

Megan Green I would think, yeah, I think that would be a good ... You, you probably want that basis behind you before-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... you come to the conference.

Tim Fulton Okay. How would ... Let's say somebody's making things and they're giving them away to people at the holidays and somebody reached out and said, "Hey, could you make me some of those things for this baby shower that I'm doing?" And so they've got their craft down to a point.

Megan Green Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton They may not have even costed it out ... properly-

Megan Green Mm-hmm

Tim Fulton ... in that they don't know how much cost of material is going into each individual good, how much waste they have, frankly what their cost of goods sold is.

Megan Green Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton They don't know the phrase cost of goods sold.

Megan Green Mm-hmm.

Tim Fulton What advice do you have for someone like that?

Megan Green Before you get into, like, the, the, the actual money of it is sitting down and figuring out how you can create what you're doing, like if it's a unique scarf, if it's a piece of jewelry that you've made. Actually sitting down and kind of timing yourself is where I would state that that starts.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Because your biggest, your biggest expense is going to be your time.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green In whatever you're doing as an entrepreneur-

Tim Fulton Like many things, labor is-

Megan Green Yes

Tim Fulton ... the biggest. Right.

Megan Green Yeah. And in this case, you are the labor.

Tim Fulton Well, not necessarily.

Megan Green But I think for the most part, as, as crafters, that's how we started out.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Like, we are typically, like, we are making it, we are c- creating it and producing it, and a big, a big internal struggle amongst makers is at what point do you allow that to go off-site where you're not in charge of it?

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So for the most part, the people that are coming to our conference, or for the most part the people that are attending one of these craft shows, they are still manufacturing most of the goods.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, and I feel like it, they get to a point where they realize, like, "Oh, if I'm actually going to do this and, you know, remove that from my hands," like, that, then that's the next step.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, and I feel like not everybody gets there.

Tim Fulton Well, and some people don't wanna get there.

Megan Green And, yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton Like you don't wanna get there with Stinky Bomb Soap.

Megan Green I don't, no, no. Like, and I've had some of those, like, meetings where, like, you know, do I, like, you know, go overseas and, you know, you know, like really, or look into a manufacturing company within the United States?

Tim Fulton Did you get that far into-

Megan Green At one point I was, like, looking into it.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Like, how can I have all this stuff made for me so that I can just do the other things that I want to do? And, and, um, and then I just realized, you know, I still really like, I still like that creative process of actually making it. Like, uh, I don't have a lot of Zen moments in my life, but making a bar of soap in the shape of a grenade, for whatever reason, brings me a little bit of calm.

Tim Fulton I totally get it.

Megan Green Yes. So, um, so for me, yeah, I never wanted to have that kind of outsourced, even if it's, you know, down the road from me or, you know, in another state or in another country.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, but that, that would be the next step. But not everybody wants to take it to that level. Um, so for the most part, as a, as a maker, you are doing most of that labor, and that is your biggest expense. So you wanna really sit down and figure out how can you fine-tune this process.

Tim Fulton Find efficiencies.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Yeah. Uh, and then you get into the price point structure. You know, like, are you just buying it from, you know, if you're making a scarf, are you just buying that yarn from JOANN's, or can you actually create an account with, you know, the, the skein that you really, really like, like find that manufacturer and start buying that stuff in bulk, and that's gonna lower your price points. Um, and the biggest-

Tim Fulton But you've also got a larger investment.

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton And so you, you kinda gotta keep doing it at that point.

Megan Green Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So there's a lot of, there's a lot of, I mean, there's so many different levels, and it's, and it's the same for any business. But for the most part, the, the one thing that makers have that is different from a lot of business models is for the most part you are the manufacturer.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Unless you decide you're gonna get to the point where you're, you're gonna send that out to somebody else.

Tim Fulton How do you find... Uh, I guess my question is how do you find guidance in order to do that?

Megan Green A lot of peer discussions.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Uh, i- in my opinion, and again, that's why something like craft shows are really important. That's why something like, you know, the Craft Conference-

Tim Fulton So because you can just approach someone and say, "Hey, you kind of do something similar to me."

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton Like, how did you-

Megan Green Yeah. And it's a lot easier to have that when you, there's like a face-to-face versus just sending a cold email out to somebody and say, "Hey, I really like your stuff. Give me all your inside trader information so I don't have to, like, go through all that."

Tim Fulton 'Cause the person is like, "Fuck you, I'm not gonna learn-

Megan Green Exactly. Exactly

Tim Fulton ... I'm not gonna teach you."

Megan Green But if you-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... create, you know, a nice rapport and you actually create a mutual relationship out of respect, you know, then you can start finding mentors, and I think that's true for any, again, for any type of business.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Like, you always are trying to find people that you respect who are gonna help what you're doing, and it's about befriending that person and, you know, not taking advantage of that relationship and... But I think y- you find a mentor. You know?

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green You, you find somebody that you wanna reach out to and, and can hopefully, you know, either show you the ropes or help guide you or not just give you all the, the website searches that are gonna make your, your life 100% easier. But, you know, I mean, part of the investment as, as an entrepreneur is you gotta kinda earn it sometimes, you know?

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green You gotta really dig through and spend that time, and, and then you'll come out stronger, and then in return, you know, somebody's gonna look up to you and you're gonna be that person's mentor, and it's a very-

Tim Fulton I mean, do you think, though, that, 'cause you're saying this, and, and those are all great pieces of advice, but is there, do you think, an opportunity in this market for somebody to set up, like, one day, like, here are the things to think about, the entry-level conference, if you will?

Megan Green I, I think that that could exist.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green I think that there have been some models like that. They're typically more, like, smaller-

Tim Fulton They're seminars.

Megan Green Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton Yeah.

Megan Green It's like a quick, like, "Hey, let's teach you how to make an Etsy shop."

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green And again, like, that exists. Like, people need that type of knowledge.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, and, you know, people have e-books left and right.

Tim Fulton Are those resources somewhere, like let me teach you how to make an Etsy shop, like let me walk you through it?

Megan Green Uh, I mean, I can think locally. Like, I know Idea Foundry had one of those classes.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Like, Holy Craft, uh, had some of those classes back in the day.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, so the- they do certainly exist on a local level, and they certainly exist, you know, on a Google search.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So they do exist, it's just we're not gonna-

Tim Fulton That's not what you j-

Megan Green We, we-

Tim Fulton ... what you do.

Megan Green Yeah, yeah.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So we are, we are focusing towards, again, like the people like myself with the Stinky Bomb, like if I really wanted to take Stinky Bomb to the next level, what kind of tools do I need that other people I know are probably gonna need, too, and that's the curriculum that we wanna provide, um, for those, for those makers.

Tim Fulton What are your thoughts on Etsy? Uh, how do you feel about Etsy in general?

Megan Green Um, I'm, I'm, I'm like a 50/50 Etsy person.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Uh, and I actually, um, for the conference I was kind of going through Etsy for the first time, and I realized, like, oh, I haven't actually been on Etsy. Like, my shop is open, like so when an order comes in, you know, my, my page is active and-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... and in front of me, but I don't explore Etsy the way that I used to.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Um, but I know there's still lots of people who love and, and support and are, are Etsy fanatics, and I think that's great. Like, that marketplace exists for a reason.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, but for me it's become, it's always like an incubation tool. Like-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... you can use that to test so many different things within your business. Like, you can learn those price points really quickly because you're getting a bill from them every month, and you're shipping, you know, stuff out, so you're paying USPS every month. So you really get to get a kind of like an introductory craft course of, um-

Tim Fulton Well, business course almost.

Megan Green Yeah. Like, because you're-

Tim Fulton I mean, 'cause you're proving it out in that you're proving out those price points, but you're also proving out demand.

Megan Green Yes.

Tim Fulton Like p- do people want this thing that you're making?

Megan Green Yeah.

Tim Fulton These mason jars that are filled with succulents.

Megan Green Yes. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Like, yes, right now they probably are.

Megan Green Yes. Yeah.

Tim Fulton In eight months they probably will not be.

Megan Green Yes. Yeah. So you get to test out a lot of things, and because it's only a 20-cent listing and then you get the, the back end off of when you make a sale, it's really affordable 'cause you don't have to pay for, you know, yearly domain listings. You just pay for those fees. Um, so it makes it a really interesting place to test your, your handmade marketplace.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Uh, and it's also, because it's global, um, I mean, I feel like- Stinky Bomb wouldn't have done anything had Etsy not existed, which is, you know-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... why I still won't close my shop. Like, especially now, someone who wants to kinda sit back and allow it to just be a passive income, like the searches and the engines just kind of work for themselves at this point, and I don't have to do a lot, and it allows me to focus.

Tim Fulton And you could do more and it-

Megan Green I could do more

Tim Fulton ... and it would generate more revenue probably.

Megan Green Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It's, uh, every, any type of business is how much time you put into it.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So, uh, but it's a great way to test any concept, any idea that you have, and, and find your march- marketplace, build your email list up so when you're ready to take the leap, you can, you know, decide if you wanna create your own website. And then, but then, you know, Etsy again has a global customer base. Then you have to create your own customer base. Like, the minute you close your Etsy shop, like, it's all on you.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, so for me, like, I will always keep it open because it's just, it's, it's, it's a great platform, and again, I'm still in, in it for very little-

Tim Fulton Why would I stop making money for it, from it?

Megan Green Yes. Yeah.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, so it's, uh, I still think it's really great, but... And, and again, they went from being, like, they helped make handmade mainstream.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green So we as makers are in debt to them, you know? But-

Tim Fulton So what's the bad thing?

Megan Green Uh, just, um, I mean, they've become, like, handmade and DIY, like when it started or when it really kind of re- reformed itself, like 15-some years ago-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... it was very much like a punk movement.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green So it's now like the punk has gone corporate.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um-

Tim Fulton Well, and someone is making money off of them.

Megan Green Yes. Yeah. You know, they have shareholders now, you know? Their, their business model has changed. Like, before it had this, like, very, like, artsy environment, and, like, the forums were really active, and it kinda felt really supportive and, and, you know, now they have, you know, more bandwidth and-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... you know, things on the back end that they need to provide. And it, it, it's been great in terms of, you know, their, their fees have stayed the same from the handmade s- sell- um, sellers' standpoint, but there's all these other bugs and things that are going on. And again, I'm not as active in that Etsy community-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... where I w- first was when I was doing Stinky Bomb. It is a great resource if you're just starting out. Like, that's the biggest thing to do. Like-

Tim Fulton Okay

Megan Green ... create an Etsy account. And everybody knows that. Like, if you're at a craft show and there's a customer walking by, they're like, "Oh, do you have an Etsy site?"

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Because that's their connection to handmade. But it's like anything. Like, you've gotta work really hard at it, and you have to put in the time and energy, and then it, it's, it's one cog in the wheel if you wanna try to maintain, you know, a career, if you wanna try to turn it into a career or make it a career.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green You know, um, you sometimes have your Etsy site. You sometimes have your own website. You're doing craft shows, you're doing trade shows, you're doing, uh, consignment, you're doing wholesale. You're b- starting to speak or, you know, they're, you're blogging. Like, there's-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... so many levels to this. But I'm still, I'm still kind of an Etsy proponent, but again, I'm not on it the way that I probably would or should-

Tim Fulton Gotcha

Megan Green ... have been a long time ago.

Tim Fulton Any other virtues or detriments to the Columbus craft scene that people may not know about?

Megan Green I mean, we are a test city, so I-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... I love that. Uh, and we are always growing and evolving, and I think the, the craft show circuit has shown that as well. Like, uh, I, I still believe that you can throw a dart at any calendar weekend, uh, throughout the year and you will find a place to sell and buy your handmade stuff or buy handmade stuff.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green Um, the problem with that growth is, uh, like any market, you know, saturation.

Tim Fulton Saturation.

Megan Green Uh, you know, I... You can go to a coffee shop and, you know, pick up some handmade trinkets. You can go into a corporate setting and they wanna host a pop-up. Like, we get a lotta emails like, "Hey," like, "we're trying to do this thing for the first time. We'd love to get some, some craft vendors." So we've kinda become, like, pieces of flair. So you-

Tim Fulton So, like-

Megan Green You have to test the-

Tim Fulton A craft fair in, like, a corporate cafeteria?

Megan Green Uh-huh.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green Yeah. Uh, and again, I understand their, their ideas for it. You know, they wanna give their, their employees something to do during a lunch hour-

Tim Fulton Right

Megan Green ... or, you know, invite their family in. But, you know, you have to have... In order for it to be sustainable, like, you know, you have to have good quality vendors, and the people that are gonna go to events like that or sell at events like that are probably the people that are still the ones just starting to create that Etsy account.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, so the caliber of artist, um, you might find one or two really good ones, but for the most part, those are the people that are still testing their, like, trying to find their marketplace.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, so with that comes, you know, a lot of saturation, uh, and it just means, you know, on my end, you know, I have to work harder to continue to allow myself to be, uh, or, or Outlaws to continue to be a unique experience and find new, unique vendors that you can't find anywhere else. So-

Tim Fulton But are you guy- from a business sense, are you taking a- advantage of opportunities like that and trying, like, 'cause you only do two events a year. So are you dedicated to only those two events a year, or are you doing partnership events?

Megan Green For the most part, that's where we are.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green I mean, we partnered with Independence Day.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, so and it was just, like, a smaller version of what we do.

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.

Megan Green So instead of-

Tim Fulton Well, but it was still big for, for what it... Its foot-

Megan Green Oh, yeah

Tim Fulton ... its footprint in Independence Day was quite big.

Megan Green Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so, uh, we've slowly started to do things like that, uh, but at this point, if someone's gonna invite us to participate in something, I almost want it to be an experience where it's not people selling things.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green I almost want it to be, like, we partnered with the, um, with the museum in 2016, uh, Columbus Museum of Art, and it was, we hosted, like, a DIY activity, like a competition.

Tim Fulton Okay.

Megan Green So, like, families could come in and, like, create something with, like, I don't know, googly eyes and, and old CMA postcards, and, like, we, like, had them craft battle one another. And so it's more about, like, that experience of, like, taking crafts in and, like, getting hands-on and making something because the more that I can teach the general public the process of how you make something-

Tim Fulton Mm-hmm

Megan Green ... through any type of DIY workshop or experience, you get a better appreciation of, oh, that was really hard to make, and what I made had googly eyes and felt on it.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green And this item cost $50. I have, like, a small idea of, like, somebody actually put time and thought into it.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green And it didn't look like a train wreck. Like, it's well made. They might have gone to CCAD. Like, that is worth something, and it helps, you know, on, on our end it helps, you know, them buy things and have a better appreciation of the people that are at our events. So I would rather start getting into that, um, that experience of, like, DIY and, like, really encouraging, you know, either hosting workshops or, you know, encouraging and supporting the people that are already doing that 'cause I want the consumer to have a better idea of there's a serious thought process that goes behind a well-crafted, well-made object. And I want them to know that, yes, you could go to any department store and buy it for a fraction of the price, but you could also go to a local independent craft show or retailer and know that there's a story and there's a person behind it.

Tim Fulton Right.

Megan Green Um, so that's more of, like, where I want to see Outlaws go.

Tim Fulton Great. You can get more information, links to Midwest Craft Con, Craftin' Outlaws, and Stinky Bomb Soap in the show notes at theconfluencecast.com. Megan, thank you so much for your time.

Megan Green Thank you very much for having me. Appreciate it.

Tim Fulton Thank you for listening to The Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of The Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite crafter. If you're interested in sponsoring The Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a good week.