Actors’ Theatre
All the world’s a stage… and one man in his time plays many parts. The artistic director of Actors’ Theatre is no different. On the occasion of their 36th season, Phillip Hickman sat down to talk about his role at the Schiller Park institution, how they put together their season each year, and the importance of accessible art.
Shownotes
This Confluence Cast episode is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city’s incredible artists — stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events and an artist directory visit ColumbusMakesArt.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, all the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances, and one man in his time plays many parts. I sat down with the artistic director of Actors Theatre in Schiller Park, Philip Hickman, to talk about their season this year, the role of an artistic director, the different roles people can play as an artistic director, how to run a company of that size, and the importance of accessible art. After the interview, I have included a bit of comedy for you. Eric Tate is a comedian and musician who has a big show coming up at the Garden Theatre in July. I encourage you to check it out. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview and the comedy. Sitting down here with Philip Hickman, the artistic director of Actors Theatre. You may know them as Shakespeare in the Park down at Schiller Park. Philip, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Good. Actors Theatre, you guys produce what? Two, three productions a year. We've actually gone to four productions a year, uh, the last few seasons.
Okay. Over the course of time, Actors Theatre has done as few as one play during the summer at the very beginning. Okay. To, uh, some kind of what I'm assuming were crazy times, uh, about 20 years ago where they were doing half a dozen shows, uh, per summer.
Okay. Well, I imagine times with more funding as well. Times with more funding, yes. This is the 36th season, and what's the schedule look like this year? Well, the schedule this year is opening with Julius Caesar, uh, followed by an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. Then we're doing a little, uh, smash hit comedy called The Emperor of the Moon, uh, by Aphra Behn, and we're finishing the season with Shakespeare's Tempest.
Got it. And The Emperor of the Moon, that's a piece from the early 19th century? Uh, earlier than that. Okay. It's 1687.
Oh, excuse me. Got, um, only a couple of centuries off. Tell us more about that piece. Well, The Emperor of the Moon was a big hit in the farce comedy scene, uh, during the, in the Restoration period. Uh, it's a, it's a, it's a farce. It's got some kind of classic, uh, farcical tropes with the crazy doctor and, uh, his overbearing ways toward his, uh, young relatives. But it's actually a piece of science fiction. Okay. And, uh, finding a, a sci-fi farce was kind of right up my alley, and it was like, "We need to do this in the park."
Got it. And so you guys primarily do works that are in the public domain. Primarily. Works. So either, so Shakespeare, Molière, or works that are, what? Over 150 years old. What's the sort of date on that? The cutoff is roughly 100 years.
Okay. There are some things from the very early 20th century that are in the public domain, but for the most part, uh, we're looking at the 19th century and earlier. Okay. And how do you choose your season? Well, I go about choosing the season by, it's a philosophical question for me.
Okay. Because we perform for free in a public space. Mm-hmm. And because we perform for free in a public space, I think that we're inherently in a relationship with the community.
Mm-hmm. And so what I like to do is look at the news, look at what's going on, uh, around town, around the country. What are we concerned with? What are we interested in, um, as a community? And from there, start to think about what plays talk about those themes maybe in different ways, and then- And then ... start selecting shows.
Right. And then so what, what sort of informed the season this year? Well, I think the last couple of years there's been a lot of talk globally, nationally, locally about what it means to have, uh, power, what it means to be involved in structures of power, either being subject to them or running them. Okay. And so a lot of the, all of the plays this year discuss that theme of, uh, how do we relate to, uh, structures of power.
Okay. Are you translating that then to the actors as well? We're recording this at the beginning of May, so some of the productions aren't in production, or excuse me, aren't in rehearsal at this point. How do you translate that to the actors/director? Are you sort of saying, "Here's why I chose this. Please take it, take, take from that what you will"? I do like to talk about that with the directors. Okay. But I think if everyone is trying to go off of a one-sentence encapsulation-
Right ... that I give them, then, uh, we Probably end up with a relatively dull season Gotcha So I like to take each piece on its own, and that way we can enjoy the, the romance of Pride and Prejudice as romance, and we can enjoy the comedy of Emperor of the Moon as comedy
Right And we don't need to be worried about an overarching theme. But we can take the season as a whole and say, "Okay, these are different ways of talking about very similar topics." Got it. Talk a little bit about the experience of going to a show at the park. What time does it start? Do you, do I bring a blanket? Do I bring food? Can I drink wine? What is that experience down in Schiller Park in German Village? Oh, the weather is always perfect in German Village. It is 75 degrees year-round. Uh, it never rains
Mm-hmm It's, uh, it's beautiful None of these things are true. It is beautiful most of the time No. It's a... Schiller's a wonderful park. It's a... We've got a great amphitheater set up. The very base form of showing up at the park would be to show up, bring a blanket. We've got ample ground, uh, in front of the stage for people to lay out blankets. We like to make sure that there's plenty of room for people to picnic. You can bring food. You can bring, uh, beverages of choice
Mm-hmm We certainly, uh, don't, uh, have the manpower to enforce the city's very well-thought-out liquor laws Mm-hmm And so, um, you know, we would hope that people would take that into consideration
Mm-hmm. But that's not your role, to police- Certainly ... to police the picnic blankets Well, certainly not. Certainly not. Actors have been known to take food from people, um-
Okay But we'll see about that. Uh Gotcha. And so what time do the shows start each night? Every night the shows start at 8:00. On Friday nights and Sunday nights we have some of our students performing a little bit earlier than that
Okay Uh, either 7:00 or 7:30, depending on the needs of the show. But we run classes and camps for kids and adults all summer long, and part of the culmination of that process is performing in front of an audience. So, uh, we do have that going on on Fridays and Sundays Okay But the, the main productions begin at 8:00. People sometimes gather at the park as early as... I've showed up at 6:00 and people were already picnicking
Okay But the shows begin at 8:00. They're usually done around 10:00, 10:15 Got it Uh, there's, there's always a 15-minute intermission
Okay And we are located right next to the Schiller Park Recreation Center, so there are facilities nearby for, for any of those needs. There's a snack bar- Mm-hmm ... in the park-
Okay ... where you can get ice cream and coffee, sodas, uh, sandwiches and things like that. This year we're going to have, uh... We're working with a couple of restaurants to bring food trucks to the park for the first time- Okay ... so that people might be able to enjoy Schmidt's, other places whose food they would enjoy
Fantastic. You can get information on all the shows, the classes, the dates, the times, the sign-ups at theactorstheatre.org. That's theatre spelled in the British way, R-E. How do you guys get your funding? Because you're, you're free, you're performing at a, at a free city facility. You obviously have to pay to keep the lights on. You guys have a, do have a year-round staff Mm-hmm Where does that funding come from? Well, like a lot of other arts organizations, we get a lot of money from granting organizations
Okay Um, the Greater Columbus Arts Council, uh, the Ohio Arts Council, The Columbus Foundation have all been very supportive of what we do. We work with a couple of other organizations to fund specific projects Mm-hmm But most of our funding, uh, be- between 60% and two-thirds of our funding comes either from supporter donations-
Okay So those are people who love that we're there and just want to give us a check every year Okay Or from audience, uh, donations
Great So every night we ask the audience to donate to us. Each one of our productions in the end in, costs about $10 and a quarter per person that we're performing for Okay And so when you come to see free theater, the free theater has cost someone something
Right So if you can donate, we love to have that So it might be nice for you to toss in 10 or 20 bucks into the basket as it's coming around Absolutely, if you, if you have the means
Mm-hmm Because there were plenty of times when I went to the park when I was younger that I couldn't afford to donate Mm-hmm Uh, and now that I can afford to donate, I think that... I like to think that my donation helps somebody else be able to see this for free
Right. Absolutely. As artistic director of Actors Theatre, what is your role? It's, it's picking the shows, first of all. What sort of other checkboxes month to month do you have to check off and say, "I've, I've done my job"? Well, the role of artistic director in a lot of ways is how the company interfaces with the community Okay And so a lot of what I'm doing is working-
Coming and doing podcast interviews Coming and doing podcast interviews. Uh, as well as looking at the overall direction of the company, whether it's how we're working with schools, how is our education program working, how are we working with local businesses- Mm-hmm ... i- in order to improve the overall quality of spending time in German Village
Mm-hmm And what does our advertising look like? What is our, what is our visibility profile? Mm-hmm And so largely it's, uh... I would say most of what being the artistic director at Actors Theatre is, is- Being the, the center point of the conversation we have with Columbus.
Okay. So how did you get this role? This- Or how did you start at Actors Theatre? I want sort of your, your background. Sure. I ran a theater company with, uh, my good friend Adam Simon, uh, many, many years ago, where we were producing entirely locally written new works.
Okay. What was that company called? That company was called Foolish Bison. Okay. And we ran Foolish Bison for about five years. We decided to shut it down because strangely enough, there's not a lot of market for locally written new works.
Well, there's not a whole lot of locally written new works, right? Therein lies the problem. Okay. The market is not necessarily the audience, but the, you know, the work to produce. Exactly. So about, it would've been, uh, 2010-
Mm-hmm ... uh, we started working as artists with other companies. Okay. And so I started acting at Actors Theatre in 2010 in the production of Treasure Island.
Okay. And really enjoyed the process. Worked with, uh, John Coon, who was the- Mm-hmm ... uh, prior artistic director prior to me. Uh, so John and I worked together in that. We got started talking about bringing what we were calling modern classics or new classics to the stage, and I put together a script for Robin Hood-
Okay ... which we ended up producing in 2012. Okay. Uh, in the meantime, I continued acting with the company. Uh, Robin Hood was very successful, so John and I continued to work together and he asked me to be his, uh, associate artistic director. So I worked with him for a couple of years learning how he did his job and what the, what the different primary roles were-
Right ... that he had. And unfortunately, um- He unexpectedly passed away. He unexpectedly-
Yeah ... passed away. Here's the part of the episode where I do my full disclosure. I had done a couple of works at Actors Theatre well before your time, probably in the 1996 season- Mm-hmm
... as an actor. John and I and his wife had done some work together probably around like the year 2000 as well. So, um, it was a huge loss to the community. Again, super unexpected. Hats off to him and the work that he was able to both do in Columbus and bring to Columbus. And so you're trying to fill those shoes now. Yep. How's it going? Well, one thing that I always loved about John was that John encouraged you to be your own artist.
Mm-hmm. And so while I do feel a, a pressure to live up to, uh, who John was and what John did- Mm-hmm ... at the same time, we came to theater from different directions. We have, uh, different ideas and different thoughts.
Mm-hmm. And so it's been- Well, and he is a very, at least outwardly, the perception of him is of a very classically trained patriarchal almost figure. Mm-hmm.
You know, he's the guy who walks into a room and gets shit done. Right. And you, again, from outward appearances, you are much more a theater kid growing up, you know? Sure.
Who is much more interested in the process, and also getting it done, but your way of getting it done, it seems to me, is a lot more centered around the art and not necessarily the logistics of it. Sure. That's the great thing about having a company is that Adam Simon, who I mentioned earlier- Mm-hmm ... is great at logistics.
Okay. And he actually had been working behind the scenes at Actors Theatre for the last couple of years- Oh, and so you have him ... of John's tenure.
You're working with him as well. Yep. Great. And so logistically, uh, a lot of the same structure that was being put in place, uh, over the last couple of years of John's tenure is the same structure that we've got now. And so that's where we, that's where there's been a lot of continuity-
Mm-hmm ... is the structure of the company. Part of the idea of building that structure, uh, when we were installing it, the idea was that you could bring new people in and- Mm-hmm ... it wouldn't crash the company.
This is an organism that, that can live on its own. Exactly. It's bigger than any one person. Exactly.
Back, back in my day, there were musicals- Mm-hmm ... uh, that the company would do basically one big musical a season. Yep.
Uh, you guys don't do that anymore. I will sort of insert here my personal knowledge on it. The, at the time, the company was charging money for people to see it. Yes. Someone from the city or some angry resident said, "Hey, this is a public park. You can't charge a ticket fee for somebody to come here." Mm-hmm.
Um, and so that sort of took away the funding for the musicals. Is that right? That's one of the versions of it that I've heard. Oh, okay. So I've heard kind of multiple thoughts on that. One was that, uh, there was a lot of pushback because they were roping off an area.
Mm-hmm. And so that roped off area might've been the problem. Okay. I do know that it's, it's not legal to charge money for admission to something in a public park unless it's a festival of some kind that's designated that way.
Okay. Like the, it's licensed specifically. Exactly. Gotcha. And so somewhere between those two things, uh, lies the truth, in addition to the fact that even when charging money, you still need an extraordinary amount of money in order to produce a musical.
Right. And so- And so what are the, for people that don't know, what are sort of the costs behind that? I mean, there's a reason why you guys are doing work in the public domain. You don't have to pay to do it. Right. And actually, to clarify on that point, we've, we usually do one or two shows a year that are not public domain.
Oh, okay. Uh, for instance, this adaptation of Pride and Prejudice is not public domain. Oh, okay. Uh, it was adapted by John Jory, who's the artistic director at Actors Theatre of Louisville.
Okay. And so it's not so much about- Public domain, strictly speaking, as it is about the fact that royalties for a musical on average cost about four times as much as they do for an equivalent play. Okay. And so, you know, something that was, uh, done in the last 15 years or so, you're gonna pay, you know, say $100 a night to do the play, but it might cost as much as four or $500 a night to perform that musical.
And then those are, those are sort of the numbers that you're working with. So when you do, like, three productions a week- Mm-hmm ... for three weeks, we're talking about... Well, let's make it easy. When you're doing four productions a week for three weeks, you're talking about $3,000. Right.
And that's in addition to, you guys are a semi-professional company- ... so you're paying a little bit of money to- Right ... the actors. There's then... Oh, and we're not even talking about paying for working musicians to come in. Exactly. Exactly.
And I think you've joked to me in the past that, you know, a, a working actor is willing to take whatever you're able to give them. A working musician has a rate. They're gonna come in and say- Yeah ... 'Okay, this is how much it costs for me to come and play.' Yeah. Usual- part of the issue that we run into is just in terms of fiscal responsibility.
Okay. A musical, the upfront costs of a musical are roughly double or even more than, uh, than just doing a play. Mm-hmm. In addition to having more logistical problems, like how do you work the sound for-
Right ... the musicians? Right. How do you make sure that, uh, everyone is properly mic'd on the stage so that we're getting the best quality of, of, uh, sound transfer?
Well, and you're dealing with the logistics of being outside as well. Mm-hmm. Right? Right. And so it's, in a lot of ways it's a gamble. And so it's the, it's kind of the question of do I have the money in my pocket to cover this loss-
Mm-hmm ... if we get rained out- Right ... for multiple nights for three weeks running.
Because it's not, even if you don't do the show, you don't go to the royalty company and say, "Hey, we couldn't do it." Right. And they say, "Oh, don't worry about it. Keep your money." Right.
Because there's also this whole process of if you guys are producing it, other people aren't producing it- Mm-hmm ... at least in... Is, is there, like, a geographic area? How do they- It, it depends on the company you're working with. There are-
Okay ... some different ways that that works. I've seen musicals get produced by multiple companies in the same city within a couple of weeks or a month of each other, so I'm not really sure how all of that works. Right. There is at least some sort of you're the only person taking this over right now- Mm-hmm
... basically. 'Cause those royalty companies have to pay themselves too. Right. And frankly, the creator of the work or the family of the creator of the work. Uh, I will say this, though. We have been... I like musicals. The first show I ever saw in the park was a musical.
Mm-hmm. The first show I ever saw was 1776 in 1992- Okay ... when I moved here from West Texas. And so that was my initial impression of Schiller Park.
Mm. So I still have that image in my mind every time I, frankly every time I go to rehearsal. Okay. I have that image in my mind. Um, the tree that I sat under is no longer there. Thank you, thunderstorm.
Okay. But I do believe that musicals are an essential part of what we can do- Okay ... um, in the park. Now-
Is the question just being able to pay for it? Yeah. That's, that's the biggest- Oh, okay ... that's the biggest question, is-
So if any, uh, donors or patrons are listening- Absolutely. Absolutely ... I mean, is it something where... 'Cause you don't wanna, you know, be a shill for the money, but if someone came and said, "Hey, we could give $10,000 a year. Will you name it the XYZ Bank Musical?" And- Mm-hmm
... you wouldn't have a problem with that. Oh, no, not at all. As long as they're not asserting some control over it. Yeah, no. And, uh, I will say publicly, um, what I've said privately, which is that there is a magic number-
Okay ... uh, at which you can tell me one of the shows that we're going to do during the summer. What's the magic number? Oh, it's probably north of $30,000.
Oh, okay. I'm not cheap. Okay. Um-
So if I wanted to see Titus Andronicus, one of Shakespeare's lesser-known works, produced every year, I just have to get $30,000 together? I think we could work something out. I bet you'd do Titus for less than 30. Oh, probably. Probably. It's a, there was a, a great production of Titus done not that long ago, so it's, hasn't been on my thought calendar.
The one that I was in? Uh- Or has it been done more recently than that? Somebody, somebody else did it more recently, I'm just-
Oh, not actors. Okay. Yeah. Got it. Yeah.
Again, back to the season that I was an actor back in 1996 or '97. Mm-hmm. I played young Lucius in Titus Andronicus. There's my excuse to talk about myself. We did a production of, uh, The Winter's Tale-
Mm-hmm ... last year that was infused with, uh, mountain and traditional American music. Mm-hmm. And so I think there were about, if I recall correctly, there were about 30 songs, uh, in that show-
Uh-huh ... um, played live by the actors, uh, playing guitars and bass and washboard and all that kind of thing. Um- So you guys are looking for sort of new experiences in addition... You're not necessarily updating Shakespearean work, 'cause I think that, yes, that's a, a valuable thing to happen. I think maybe sometimes- Mm-hmm
... it happens too much, but you're looking for new ways to present the work. Yeah. Yeah, new ways to, to present the work, but also ways to bring music organically into the productions that we're doing. Mm-hmm. I think that Music is kind of a vital means of communication.
Absolutely. And so figuring out how and, and where we can do that in the budget that we have- Mm-hmm ... is important to me. Um, The Emperor of the Moon, for instance, has I think three musical numbers in it-
Okay ... that are just native to it. But it was, you know, written 150 years before there was anything that we would call a musical. Okay. Uh, in the, in the sense that the characters are, you know, communicating their thoughts and plot narrative through song.
Okay. Um, so this is prior to that, but it's still music that's built into the show, and music that has a purpose in the show. And so it's not a musical, but it's, it's in the neighborhood. It- It lives on the outskirts of musical-ville.
There are musical elements to it. Yeah. Cool. Uh, again, you can get more information on everything that Phil and I discussed today in the show notes for this episode, also at The Actors Theatre, spelled the British way, dot org. Just to wrap up, talk about what the general philosophy behind Actors Theatre is, why it's in Columbus, and give me your thoughts on that. Okay. Well, Actors Theatre was originally started in order to offer free entertainment to neighbors.
Okay. From local residents to their neighbors. It's always been at Schiller Park, right? It's always been at Schiller Park.
Okay. And that message has continued, and I think over the years that message has grown with the company. Mm-hmm. And the fact is that we live in a community that has a large spectrum of, uh, socioeconomic status.
Mm-hmm. Um, we have a very diverse community. Mm-hmm. And what we put on stage, I think, needs to represent that community.
Okay. Because we have people come through the park all the time and watch rehearsals. Yeah. And so I think about the kids that come and watch rehearsals-
Mm-hmm ... almost as much as I think about our audiences. Okay. Because our audiences come and they know Shakespeare, they're excited to see Shakespeare.
Mm-hmm. But the kids that are going through the park that are, you know, maybe going over to fish in the pond, or maybe they're just skateboarding through, uh, through the bike path. Right. They don't have the same interaction with Shakespeare. But when I see those kids stop and watch 10 or 15, 20 minutes of rehearsal-
Mm-hmm ... and then start to talk to the actors about what's going on and ask them about the narrative of the show- Mm-hmm ... I know that we've done part of our job. Part of our job being to invite them in, to invite them to participate.
Mm-hmm. Not because we're some expert other that comes in and- And dictates to them ... condescends to the community.
Right. But instead, I think kids need to see themselves on stage. They need to have an aspirational view of seeing themselves in large and important roles in life. Mm-hmm. Maybe with sword fights.
And pratfalls. Great. Philip, thank you so much for your time. Glad to be here. Okay. So I was gonna tell you one more story, and then I, I will, uh, leave. Um, uh, this is, uh, uh, two years ago, uh, I was in Atlanta, Georgia. And while I was in Atlanta, Georgia, I accidentally walked into a strip club. Here's the story. I travel around doing comedy, uh, and things like that, and it's fun. Um, and I'm also a, a bit of an amateur magician. And so what I do is whenever I'm in a strange city, I always like to go visit the local magic shop just to hang out with other guys who got beat up a lot in high school. So I was in Atlanta, and I was, uh, I, I, it was like, "Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go find a..." 'Cause I was there for a gig. So I wanted to go, uh, find the, the shop and hang out. So I whip out my iPhone and I Google magic shop. Uh, at the time it was like I was like... I had an iPhone. I'm a baller. Uh, but it was before... It was the one before Siri came out, so it's a smartzone. It's a smartphone, but if it took the SATs it'd get like a 12. Um, so I Google magic shop, and up comes a, a place called Magic City. And I get really excited because Magic City is four blocks from my hotel. It is 2:00 in the afternoon. I can walk there. It's gonna... Oh, yeah. Uh, so I go out of my hotel and I start walking through downtown Atlanta. Have any of you ever been to downtown Atlanta before? Couple of you. Okay. So you can back me up on this. Downtown Atlanta is a shithole. It's awful. It's hor- it's hot, it's wet. It's the reason people don't like the word moist. Downtown Atlanta is, is hobos fighting dogs over used condoms. It's a- it makes Cleveland look amazing. Uh, so I'm walking through downtown Atlanta trying not to get mugged, and I walk up to this big freestanding building. It's got, it says Magic City in old-timey, like, hoopy, swoopy letters, and I just am incrementally more excited. I am like, "Fuck yeah. I am Harry Potter. I have found the Hogwarts of Atlanta. Today is gonna rock." I walk in and this huge dude the size of a telephone pole says, "Spread 'em." And then he frisks me, like cop style. And I don't know how many of you have ever been to a magic shop before. That is not normally how they greet you. So he says, "You're cool." And then he shoves me through a beaded curtain, and the first thing I see is a woman in a state of undress dangling upside down by her toes from a stripper pole. And I'm like, "Ah, I know where I am. This is a strip club." I don't like strip clubs. I'm not a fan of them. They're weird. Like, I like naked women as much as the next dude, but I don't like them paying off college loans. Um. And this, by the way, is the second time I've ever been in a strip club my entire life. The first time, if you'll let me, uh, digress, was when I was living in Canada. I, uh, I, I went to school in Canada. It was... I know, I'm a big deal. Um. I went to school up there, and, uh, a buddy of mine turned 19, which is the drinking age. Everyone said, "We're gonna go to a strip club." I was like, "I don't wanna go." They're like, "You don't have a choice." So we ended up going. We went to the Brass Rail, which is the big strip club there. Uh, we go and we sit down, and, uh, the first stripper who came out was, and I'm not making this up, my girlfriend at the time, who I didn't know was a stripper. So the conversation afterwards was, "You didn't say you were going to a strip club." "You didn't say that you could pick up a stack of quarters without your hands." End of relationship. So, uh, so, I mean, so I'm in Magic City, right? I'm, I'm ex- I'm already really uncomfortable because I realize this is a strip club, and then I look around, and I see, uh, the, the, the, the clientele and the, the people who work there. I look, the, the dancer is Black, and all of the patrons are Black, and I realize the bouncer was Black, and the bartender's Black. I, I realize it's a Black strip club. It's an all... It's, it caters to the African American sect. It's not, it is an, uh, it's, it's all Black strip club. And I realize that, and then I also put together that I am like many of you, in that I'm white. And I am the kind of white, uh, where I have streaks in my skin that softly glow under black light. So I put together that I am the only white guy in an all Black strip club, and I'm glowing. Everybody sees me. I just... And then an argument took place in my brain. And to understand this argument, you need to know two things about me, is one, I am a coward. I am fundamentally a coward. I, my fight or flight response kicks in if the wind blows the wrong way. The other thing you need to know about me is that I am a left-wing liberal nutjob who voted for Obama twice. And so those two parts of my brain had an argument. And the argument was, "You have to get out of here. You have to get out. You have to go. Leave now. This is not, you are not welcome here. This is a bad, bad place for you to be. If you stay here, bad things will happen. I don't know what they are, but terrible things will happen. The world will come to an end." "But you can't just turn around and leave, 'cause they'll think you're a racist, and you're not a racist, are you?" "No, I'm definitely not a racist. I am so not a racist. I know I've never met anyone here before, and I'm never gonna meet them again, but it's really important that they know that I am definitely not a racist." "I like the Green Lantern. My favorite Green Lantern is the Black one. I am so not a racist." "All right, I need an escape plan. Hey, there's a bar. Go sit at the bar. Have a drink. Finish the drink, and then you're wearing glasses and tight pants, so just get up, sigh heavily. They'll think you're a hipster. It'll all be cool." My escape plan is to be too cool for the strip club. So I, I go, I execute my extraction plan. I go to the bar. I sit down. I have a $9 Miller Lite, 'cause it's a strip club. I start watching The Simpsons, because The Simpsons is on the television. I don't know why this... To this day, I've never figured out why The Simpsons was on in a strip club at 2:00 in the afternoon. I am about to finish my drink when a woman walks up to me and says, "Would you like a dance?" And my brain said, no, but my white liberal guilt said, "Sounds like fun!" So she shoves me into a couch and grinds on me for about 10 or 15 bucks. And it was at that point that the song Welcome to the Jungle started playing. And she gets up and goes, "Are you okay?" Which I don't think is how a lap dance is supposed to end. I said, "I thought this was a magic shop." And she said, "You're not the first magician we've had in here." And then she took me by the hand and walked me to the door, and I am not clever enough to make this up. As we passed the bouncer, she said, "We have another Copperfield." And she ushered me out of the establishment. I started walking back to my hotel. And then, what happened next was the most humiliating moment of my adult life. As I walked through the, through downtown Atlanta, the still-nude stripper exited the strip club and waved at me like I was a schoolchild. My name is Eric Tate. You guys have been wicked. Thank you very much. Have a great night.
Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite actor. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.
Transcript6,198 words
Tim Fulton Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Confluence Cast presented by Columbus Underground. We are a weekly Columbus-centric podcast focusing on the civics, lifestyle, entertainment, and people of our city. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. This week, all the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances, and one man in his time plays many parts. I sat down with the artistic director of Actors Theatre in Schiller Park, Philip Hickman, to talk about their season this year, the role of an artistic director, the different roles people can play as an artistic director, how to run a company of that size, and the importance of accessible art. After the interview, I have included a bit of comedy for you. Eric Tate is a comedian and musician who has a big show coming up at the Garden Theatre in July. I encourage you to check it out. You can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Also, the Confluence Cast is on Patreon. Find out how to support this podcast on our website, theconfluencecast.com, or at patreon.com/confluence. The Confluence Cast is sponsored by Art Makes Columbus, Columbus Makes Art, featuring stories about our city's incredible artists, stories full of inspiration, challenge, passion, and success. For videos, articles, an up-to-the-minute calendar of events, and an artist directory, visit columbusmakesart.com, the resource for all things arts and culture in the capital city. Enjoy the interview and the comedy. Sitting down here with Philip Hickman, the artistic director of Actors Theatre. You may know them as Shakespeare in the Park down at Schiller Park. Philip, how are you?
Philip Hickman I'm doing well. How are you?
Tim Fulton Good. Actors Theatre, you guys produce what? Two, three productions a year.
Philip Hickman We've actually gone to four productions a year, uh, the last few seasons.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman Over the course of time, Actors Theatre has done as few as one play during the summer at the very beginning.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman To, uh, some kind of what I'm assuming were crazy times, uh, about 20 years ago where they were doing half a dozen shows, uh, per summer.
Tim Fulton Okay. Well, I imagine times with more funding as well.
Philip Hickman Times with more funding, yes.
Tim Fulton This is the 36th season, and what's the schedule look like this year?
Philip Hickman Well, the schedule this year is opening with Julius Caesar, uh, followed by an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. Then we're doing a little, uh, smash hit comedy called The Emperor of the Moon, uh, by Aphra Behn, and we're finishing the season with Shakespeare's Tempest.
Tim Fulton Got it. And The Emperor of the Moon, that's a piece from the early 19th century?
Philip Hickman Uh, earlier than that.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman It's 1687.
Tim Fulton Oh, excuse me. Got, um, only a couple of centuries off. Tell us more about that piece.
Philip Hickman Well, The Emperor of the Moon was a big hit in the farce comedy scene, uh, during the, in the Restoration period. Uh, it's a, it's a, it's a farce. It's got some kind of classic, uh, farcical tropes with the crazy doctor and, uh, his overbearing ways toward his, uh, young relatives. But it's actually a piece of science fiction.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman And, uh, finding a, a sci-fi farce was kind of right up my alley, and it was like, "We need to do this in the park."
Tim Fulton Got it. And so you guys primarily do works that are in the public domain.
Philip Hickman Primarily.
Tim Fulton Works. So either, so Shakespeare, Molière, or works that are, what? Over 150 years old. What's the sort of date on that?
Philip Hickman The cutoff is roughly 100 years.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman There are some things from the very early 20th century that are in the public domain, but for the most part, uh, we're looking at the 19th century and earlier.
Tim Fulton Okay. And how do you choose your season?
Philip Hickman Well, I go about choosing the season by, it's a philosophical question for me.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman Because we perform for free in a public space.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman And because we perform for free in a public space, I think that we're inherently in a relationship with the community.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman And so what I like to do is look at the news, look at what's going on, uh, around town, around the country. What are we concerned with? What are we interested in, um, as a community? And from there, start to think about what plays talk about those themes maybe in different ways, and then-
Tim Fulton And then
Philip Hickman ... start selecting shows.
Tim Fulton Right. And then so what, what sort of informed the season this year?
Philip Hickman Well, I think the last couple of years there's been a lot of talk globally, nationally, locally about what it means to have, uh, power, what it means to be involved in structures of power, either being subject to them or running them.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman And so a lot of the, all of the plays this year discuss that theme of, uh, how do we relate to, uh, structures of power.
Tim Fulton Okay. Are you translating that then to the actors as well? We're recording this at the beginning of May, so some of the productions aren't in production, or excuse me, aren't in rehearsal at this point. How do you translate that to the actors/director? Are you sort of saying, "Here's why I chose this. Please take it, take, take from that what you will"?
Philip Hickman I do like to talk about that with the directors.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman But I think if everyone is trying to go off of a one-sentence encapsulation-
Tim Fulton Right
Philip Hickman ... that I give them, then, uh, we Probably end up with a relatively dull season
Tim Fulton Gotcha
Philip Hickman So I like to take each piece on its own, and that way we can enjoy the, the romance of Pride and Prejudice as romance, and we can enjoy the comedy of Emperor of the Moon as comedy
Tim Fulton Right
Philip Hickman And we don't need to be worried about an overarching theme. But we can take the season as a whole and say, "Okay, these are different ways of talking about very similar topics."
Tim Fulton Got it. Talk a little bit about the experience of going to a show at the park. What time does it start? Do you, do I bring a blanket? Do I bring food? Can I drink wine? What is that experience down in Schiller Park in German Village?
Philip Hickman Oh, the weather is always perfect in German Village. It is 75 degrees year-round. Uh, it never rains
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman It's, uh, it's beautiful
Tim Fulton None of these things are true. It is beautiful most of the time
Philip Hickman No. It's a... Schiller's a wonderful park. It's a... We've got a great amphitheater set up. The very base form of showing up at the park would be to show up, bring a blanket. We've got ample ground, uh, in front of the stage for people to lay out blankets. We like to make sure that there's plenty of room for people to picnic. You can bring food. You can bring, uh, beverages of choice
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman We certainly, uh, don't, uh, have the manpower to enforce the city's very well-thought-out liquor laws
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman And so, um, you know, we would hope that people would take that into consideration
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm. But that's not your role, to police-
Philip Hickman Certainly
Tim Fulton ... to police the picnic blankets
Philip Hickman Well, certainly not. Certainly not. Actors have been known to take food from people, um-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman But we'll see about that. Uh
Tim Fulton Gotcha. And so what time do the shows start each night?
Philip Hickman Every night the shows start at 8:00. On Friday nights and Sunday nights we have some of our students performing a little bit earlier than that
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman Uh, either 7:00 or 7:30, depending on the needs of the show. But we run classes and camps for kids and adults all summer long, and part of the culmination of that process is performing in front of an audience. So, uh, we do have that going on on Fridays and Sundays
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman But the, the main productions begin at 8:00. People sometimes gather at the park as early as... I've showed up at 6:00 and people were already picnicking
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman But the shows begin at 8:00. They're usually done around 10:00, 10:15
Tim Fulton Got it
Philip Hickman Uh, there's, there's always a 15-minute intermission
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman And we are located right next to the Schiller Park Recreation Center, so there are facilities nearby for, for any of those needs. There's a snack bar-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... in the park-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman ... where you can get ice cream and coffee, sodas, uh, sandwiches and things like that. This year we're going to have, uh... We're working with a couple of restaurants to bring food trucks to the park for the first time-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman ... so that people might be able to enjoy Schmidt's, other places whose food they would enjoy
Tim Fulton Fantastic. You can get information on all the shows, the classes, the dates, the times, the sign-ups at theactorstheatre.org. That's theatre spelled in the British way, R-E. How do you guys get your funding? Because you're, you're free, you're performing at a, at a free city facility. You obviously have to pay to keep the lights on. You guys have a, do have a year-round staff
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton Where does that funding come from?
Philip Hickman Well, like a lot of other arts organizations, we get a lot of money from granting organizations
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman Um, the Greater Columbus Arts Council, uh, the Ohio Arts Council, The Columbus Foundation have all been very supportive of what we do. We work with a couple of other organizations to fund specific projects
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman But most of our funding, uh, be- between 60% and two-thirds of our funding comes either from supporter donations-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman So those are people who love that we're there and just want to give us a check every year
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman Or from audience, uh, donations
Tim Fulton Great
Philip Hickman So every night we ask the audience to donate to us. Each one of our productions in the end in, costs about $10 and a quarter per person that we're performing for
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman And so when you come to see free theater, the free theater has cost someone something
Tim Fulton Right
Philip Hickman So if you can donate, we love to have that
Tim Fulton So it might be nice for you to toss in 10 or 20 bucks into the basket as it's coming around
Philip Hickman Absolutely, if you, if you have the means
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman Because there were plenty of times when I went to the park when I was younger that I couldn't afford to donate
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman Uh, and now that I can afford to donate, I think that... I like to think that my donation helps somebody else be able to see this for free
Tim Fulton Right. Absolutely. As artistic director of Actors Theatre, what is your role? It's, it's picking the shows, first of all. What sort of other checkboxes month to month do you have to check off and say, "I've, I've done my job"?
Philip Hickman Well, the role of artistic director in a lot of ways is how the company interfaces with the community
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman And so a lot of what I'm doing is working-
Tim Fulton Coming and doing podcast interviews
Philip Hickman Coming and doing podcast interviews. Uh, as well as looking at the overall direction of the company, whether it's how we're working with schools, how is our education program working, how are we working with local businesses-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... i- in order to improve the overall quality of spending time in German Village
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman And what does our advertising look like? What is our, what is our visibility profile?
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman And so largely it's, uh... I would say most of what being the artistic director at Actors Theatre is, is- Being the, the center point of the conversation we have with Columbus.
Tim Fulton Okay. So how did you get this role?
Philip Hickman This-
Tim Fulton Or how did you start at Actors Theatre? I want sort of your, your background.
Philip Hickman Sure. I ran a theater company with, uh, my good friend Adam Simon, uh, many, many years ago, where we were producing entirely locally written new works.
Tim Fulton Okay. What was that company called?
Philip Hickman That company was called Foolish Bison.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman And we ran Foolish Bison for about five years. We decided to shut it down because strangely enough, there's not a lot of market for locally written new works.
Tim Fulton Well, there's not a whole lot of locally written new works, right?
Philip Hickman Therein lies the problem.
Tim Fulton Okay. The market is not necessarily the audience, but the, you know, the work to produce.
Philip Hickman Exactly. So about, it would've been, uh, 2010-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... uh, we started working as artists with other companies.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman And so I started acting at Actors Theatre in 2010 in the production of Treasure Island.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman And really enjoyed the process. Worked with, uh, John Coon, who was the-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... uh, prior artistic director prior to me. Uh, so John and I worked together in that. We got started talking about bringing what we were calling modern classics or new classics to the stage, and I put together a script for Robin Hood-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman ... which we ended up producing in 2012.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman Uh, in the meantime, I continued acting with the company. Uh, Robin Hood was very successful, so John and I continued to work together and he asked me to be his, uh, associate artistic director. So I worked with him for a couple of years learning how he did his job and what the, what the different primary roles were-
Tim Fulton Right
Philip Hickman ... that he had. And unfortunately, um-
Tim Fulton He unexpectedly passed away.
Philip Hickman He unexpectedly-
Tim Fulton Yeah
Philip Hickman ... passed away.
Tim Fulton Here's the part of the episode where I do my full disclosure. I had done a couple of works at Actors Theatre well before your time, probably in the 1996 season-
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... as an actor. John and I and his wife had done some work together probably around like the year 2000 as well. So, um, it was a huge loss to the community. Again, super unexpected. Hats off to him and the work that he was able to both do in Columbus and bring to Columbus. And so you're trying to fill those shoes now.
Philip Hickman Yep.
Tim Fulton How's it going?
Philip Hickman Well, one thing that I always loved about John was that John encouraged you to be your own artist.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman And so while I do feel a, a pressure to live up to, uh, who John was and what John did-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... at the same time, we came to theater from different directions. We have, uh, different ideas and different thoughts.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman And so it's been-
Tim Fulton Well, and he is a very, at least outwardly, the perception of him is of a very classically trained patriarchal almost figure.
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton You know, he's the guy who walks into a room and gets shit done.
Philip Hickman Right.
Tim Fulton And you, again, from outward appearances, you are much more a theater kid growing up, you know?
Philip Hickman Sure.
Tim Fulton Who is much more interested in the process, and also getting it done, but your way of getting it done, it seems to me, is a lot more centered around the art and not necessarily the logistics of it.
Philip Hickman Sure. That's the great thing about having a company is that Adam Simon, who I mentioned earlier-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... is great at logistics.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman And he actually had been working behind the scenes at Actors Theatre for the last couple of years-
Tim Fulton Oh, and so you have him
Philip Hickman ... of John's tenure.
Tim Fulton You're working with him as well.
Philip Hickman Yep.
Tim Fulton Great.
Philip Hickman And so logistically, uh, a lot of the same structure that was being put in place, uh, over the last couple of years of John's tenure is the same structure that we've got now. And so that's where we, that's where there's been a lot of continuity-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... is the structure of the company. Part of the idea of building that structure, uh, when we were installing it, the idea was that you could bring new people in and-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... it wouldn't crash the company.
Tim Fulton This is an organism that, that can live on its own.
Philip Hickman Exactly.
Tim Fulton It's bigger than any one person.
Philip Hickman Exactly.
Tim Fulton Back, back in my day, there were musicals-
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... uh, that the company would do basically one big musical a season.
Philip Hickman Yep.
Tim Fulton Uh, you guys don't do that anymore. I will sort of insert here my personal knowledge on it. The, at the time, the company was charging money for people to see it.
Philip Hickman Yes.
Tim Fulton Someone from the city or some angry resident said, "Hey, this is a public park. You can't charge a ticket fee for somebody to come here."
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton Um, and so that sort of took away the funding for the musicals. Is that right?
Philip Hickman That's one of the versions of it that I've heard.
Tim Fulton Oh, okay.
Philip Hickman So I've heard kind of multiple thoughts on that. One was that, uh, there was a lot of pushback because they were roping off an area.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman And so that roped off area might've been the problem.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman I do know that it's, it's not legal to charge money for admission to something in a public park unless it's a festival of some kind that's designated that way.
Tim Fulton Okay. Like the, it's licensed specifically.
Philip Hickman Exactly.
Tim Fulton Gotcha.
Philip Hickman And so somewhere between those two things, uh, lies the truth, in addition to the fact that even when charging money, you still need an extraordinary amount of money in order to produce a musical.
Tim Fulton Right.
Philip Hickman And so-
Tim Fulton And so what are the, for people that don't know, what are sort of the costs behind that? I mean, there's a reason why you guys are doing work in the public domain. You don't have to pay to do it.
Philip Hickman Right. And actually, to clarify on that point, we've, we usually do one or two shows a year that are not public domain.
Tim Fulton Oh, okay.
Philip Hickman Uh, for instance, this adaptation of Pride and Prejudice is not public domain.
Tim Fulton Oh, okay.
Philip Hickman Uh, it was adapted by John Jory, who's the artistic director at Actors Theatre of Louisville.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman And so it's not so much about- Public domain, strictly speaking, as it is about the fact that royalties for a musical on average cost about four times as much as they do for an equivalent play.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman And so, you know, something that was, uh, done in the last 15 years or so, you're gonna pay, you know, say $100 a night to do the play, but it might cost as much as four or $500 a night to perform that musical.
Tim Fulton And then those are, those are sort of the numbers that you're working with. So when you do, like, three productions a week-
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... for three weeks, we're talking about... Well, let's make it easy. When you're doing four productions a week for three weeks, you're talking about $3,000.
Philip Hickman Right.
Tim Fulton And that's in addition to, you guys are a semi-professional company- ... so you're paying a little bit of money to-
Philip Hickman Right
Tim Fulton ... the actors. There's then... Oh, and we're not even talking about paying for working musicians to come in.
Philip Hickman Exactly. Exactly.
Tim Fulton And I think you've joked to me in the past that, you know, a, a working actor is willing to take whatever you're able to give them. A working musician has a rate. They're gonna come in and say-
Philip Hickman Yeah
Tim Fulton ... 'Okay, this is how much it costs for me to come and play.'
Philip Hickman Yeah. Usual- part of the issue that we run into is just in terms of fiscal responsibility.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman A musical, the upfront costs of a musical are roughly double or even more than, uh, than just doing a play.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman In addition to having more logistical problems, like how do you work the sound for-
Tim Fulton Right
Philip Hickman ... the musicians?
Tim Fulton Right.
Philip Hickman How do you make sure that, uh, everyone is properly mic'd on the stage so that we're getting the best quality of, of, uh, sound transfer?
Tim Fulton Well, and you're dealing with the logistics of being outside as well.
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton Right?
Philip Hickman Right. And so it's, in a lot of ways it's a gamble. And so it's the, it's kind of the question of do I have the money in my pocket to cover this loss-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... if we get rained out-
Tim Fulton Right
Philip Hickman ... for multiple nights for three weeks running.
Tim Fulton Because it's not, even if you don't do the show, you don't go to the royalty company and say, "Hey, we couldn't do it."
Philip Hickman Right.
Tim Fulton And they say, "Oh, don't worry about it. Keep your money."
Philip Hickman Right.
Tim Fulton Because there's also this whole process of if you guys are producing it, other people aren't producing it-
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... at least in... Is, is there, like, a geographic area? How do they-
Philip Hickman It, it depends on the company you're working with. There are-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman ... some different ways that that works. I've seen musicals get produced by multiple companies in the same city within a couple of weeks or a month of each other, so I'm not really sure how all of that works.
Tim Fulton Right. There is at least some sort of you're the only person taking this over right now-
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... basically. 'Cause those royalty companies have to pay themselves too.
Philip Hickman Right.
Tim Fulton And frankly, the creator of the work or the family of the creator of the work.
Philip Hickman Uh, I will say this, though. We have been... I like musicals. The first show I ever saw in the park was a musical.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman The first show I ever saw was 1776 in 1992-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman ... when I moved here from West Texas. And so that was my initial impression of Schiller Park.
Tim Fulton Mm.
Philip Hickman So I still have that image in my mind every time I, frankly every time I go to rehearsal.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman I have that image in my mind. Um, the tree that I sat under is no longer there. Thank you, thunderstorm.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman But I do believe that musicals are an essential part of what we can do-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman ... um, in the park. Now-
Tim Fulton Is the question just being able to pay for it?
Philip Hickman Yeah. That's, that's the biggest-
Tim Fulton Oh, okay
Philip Hickman ... that's the biggest question, is-
Tim Fulton So if any, uh, donors or patrons are listening-
Philip Hickman Absolutely. Absolutely
Tim Fulton ... I mean, is it something where... 'Cause you don't wanna, you know, be a shill for the money, but if someone came and said, "Hey, we could give $10,000 a year. Will you name it the XYZ Bank Musical?" And-
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... you wouldn't have a problem with that.
Philip Hickman Oh, no, not at all.
Tim Fulton As long as they're not asserting some control over it.
Philip Hickman Yeah, no. And, uh, I will say publicly, um, what I've said privately, which is that there is a magic number-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman ... uh, at which you can tell me one of the shows that we're going to do during the summer.
Tim Fulton What's the magic number?
Philip Hickman Oh, it's probably north of $30,000.
Tim Fulton Oh, okay.
Philip Hickman I'm not cheap.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman Um-
Tim Fulton So if I wanted to see Titus Andronicus, one of Shakespeare's lesser-known works, produced every year, I just have to get $30,000 together?
Philip Hickman I think we could work something out.
Tim Fulton I bet you'd do Titus for less than 30.
Philip Hickman Oh, probably. Probably. It's a, there was a, a great production of Titus done not that long ago, so it's, hasn't been on my thought calendar.
Tim Fulton The one that I was in?
Philip Hickman Uh-
Tim Fulton Or has it been done more recently than that?
Philip Hickman Somebody, somebody else did it more recently, I'm just-
Tim Fulton Oh, not actors. Okay.
Philip Hickman Yeah.
Tim Fulton Got it.
Philip Hickman Yeah.
Tim Fulton Again, back to the season that I was an actor back in 1996 or '97.
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm.
Tim Fulton I played young Lucius in Titus Andronicus. There's my excuse to talk about myself.
Philip Hickman We did a production of, uh, The Winter's Tale-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... last year that was infused with, uh, mountain and traditional American music.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman And so I think there were about, if I recall correctly, there were about 30 songs, uh, in that show-
Tim Fulton Uh-huh
Philip Hickman ... um, played live by the actors, uh, playing guitars and bass and washboard and all that kind of thing. Um-
Tim Fulton So you guys are looking for sort of new experiences in addition... You're not necessarily updating Shakespearean work, 'cause I think that, yes, that's a, a valuable thing to happen. I think maybe sometimes-
Philip Hickman Mm-hmm
Tim Fulton ... it happens too much, but you're looking for new ways to present the work.
Philip Hickman Yeah. Yeah, new ways to, to present the work, but also ways to bring music organically into the productions that we're doing.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman I think that Music is kind of a vital means of communication.
Tim Fulton Absolutely.
Philip Hickman And so figuring out how and, and where we can do that in the budget that we have-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... is important to me. Um, The Emperor of the Moon, for instance, has I think three musical numbers in it-
Tim Fulton Okay
Philip Hickman ... that are just native to it. But it was, you know, written 150 years before there was anything that we would call a musical.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman Uh, in the, in the sense that the characters are, you know, communicating their thoughts and plot narrative through song.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman Um, so this is prior to that, but it's still music that's built into the show, and music that has a purpose in the show. And so it's not a musical, but it's, it's in the neighborhood.
Tim Fulton It-
Philip Hickman It lives on the outskirts of musical-ville.
Tim Fulton There are musical elements to it.
Philip Hickman Yeah.
Tim Fulton Cool. Uh, again, you can get more information on everything that Phil and I discussed today in the show notes for this episode, also at The Actors Theatre, spelled the British way, dot org. Just to wrap up, talk about what the general philosophy behind Actors Theatre is, why it's in Columbus, and give me your thoughts on that.
Philip Hickman Okay. Well, Actors Theatre was originally started in order to offer free entertainment to neighbors.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman From local residents to their neighbors.
Tim Fulton It's always been at Schiller Park, right?
Philip Hickman It's always been at Schiller Park.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman And that message has continued, and I think over the years that message has grown with the company.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman And the fact is that we live in a community that has a large spectrum of, uh, socioeconomic status.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman Um, we have a very diverse community.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman And what we put on stage, I think, needs to represent that community.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman Because we have people come through the park all the time and watch rehearsals.
Tim Fulton Yeah.
Philip Hickman And so I think about the kids that come and watch rehearsals-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... almost as much as I think about our audiences.
Tim Fulton Okay.
Philip Hickman Because our audiences come and they know Shakespeare, they're excited to see Shakespeare.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman But the kids that are going through the park that are, you know, maybe going over to fish in the pond, or maybe they're just skateboarding through, uh, through the bike path.
Tim Fulton Right.
Philip Hickman They don't have the same interaction with Shakespeare. But when I see those kids stop and watch 10 or 15, 20 minutes of rehearsal-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... and then start to talk to the actors about what's going on and ask them about the narrative of the show-
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm
Philip Hickman ... I know that we've done part of our job. Part of our job being to invite them in, to invite them to participate.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman Not because we're some expert other that comes in and-
Tim Fulton And dictates to them
Philip Hickman ... condescends to the community.
Tim Fulton Right.
Philip Hickman But instead, I think kids need to see themselves on stage. They need to have an aspirational view of seeing themselves in large and important roles in life.
Tim Fulton Mm-hmm.
Philip Hickman Maybe with sword fights.
Tim Fulton And pratfalls.
Philip Hickman And pratfalls.
Tim Fulton Great. Philip, thank you so much for your time.
Philip Hickman Glad to be here.
Eric Tate Okay. So I was gonna tell you one more story, and then I, I will, uh, leave. Um, uh, this is, uh, uh, two years ago, uh, I was in Atlanta, Georgia. And while I was in Atlanta, Georgia, I accidentally walked into a strip club. Here's the story. I travel around doing comedy, uh, and things like that, and it's fun. Um, and I'm also a, a bit of an amateur magician. And so what I do is whenever I'm in a strange city, I always like to go visit the local magic shop just to hang out with other guys who got beat up a lot in high school. So I was in Atlanta, and I was, uh, I, I, it was like, "Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go find a..." 'Cause I was there for a gig. So I wanted to go, uh, find the, the shop and hang out. So I whip out my iPhone and I Google magic shop. Uh, at the time it was like I was like... I had an iPhone. I'm a baller. Uh, but it was before... It was the one before Siri came out, so it's a smartzone. It's a smartphone, but if it took the SATs it'd get like a 12. Um, so I Google magic shop, and up comes a, a place called Magic City. And I get really excited because Magic City is four blocks from my hotel. It is 2:00 in the afternoon. I can walk there. It's gonna... Oh, yeah. Uh, so I go out of my hotel and I start walking through downtown Atlanta. Have any of you ever been to downtown Atlanta before? Couple of you. Okay. So you can back me up on this. Downtown Atlanta is a shithole. It's awful. It's hor- it's hot, it's wet. It's the reason people don't like the word moist. Downtown Atlanta is, is hobos fighting dogs over used condoms. It's a- it makes Cleveland look amazing. Uh, so I'm walking through downtown Atlanta trying not to get mugged, and I walk up to this big freestanding building. It's got, it says Magic City in old-timey, like, hoopy, swoopy letters, and I just am incrementally more excited. I am like, "Fuck yeah. I am Harry Potter. I have found the Hogwarts of Atlanta. Today is gonna rock." I walk in and this huge dude the size of a telephone pole says, "Spread 'em." And then he frisks me, like cop style. And I don't know how many of you have ever been to a magic shop before. That is not normally how they greet you. So he says, "You're cool." And then he shoves me through a beaded curtain, and the first thing I see is a woman in a state of undress dangling upside down by her toes from a stripper pole. And I'm like, "Ah, I know where I am. This is a strip club." I don't like strip clubs. I'm not a fan of them. They're weird. Like, I like naked women as much as the next dude, but I don't like them paying off college loans. Um. And this, by the way, is the second time I've ever been in a strip club my entire life. The first time, if you'll let me, uh, digress, was when I was living in Canada. I, uh, I, I went to school in Canada. It was... I know, I'm a big deal. Um. I went to school up there, and, uh, a buddy of mine turned 19, which is the drinking age. Everyone said, "We're gonna go to a strip club." I was like, "I don't wanna go." They're like, "You don't have a choice." So we ended up going. We went to the Brass Rail, which is the big strip club there. Uh, we go and we sit down, and, uh, the first stripper who came out was, and I'm not making this up, my girlfriend at the time, who I didn't know was a stripper. So the conversation afterwards was, "You didn't say you were going to a strip club." "You didn't say that you could pick up a stack of quarters without your hands." End of relationship. So, uh, so, I mean, so I'm in Magic City, right? I'm, I'm ex- I'm already really uncomfortable because I realize this is a strip club, and then I look around, and I see, uh, the, the, the, the clientele and the, the people who work there. I look, the, the dancer is Black, and all of the patrons are Black, and I realize the bouncer was Black, and the bartender's Black. I, I realize it's a Black strip club. It's an all... It's, it caters to the African American sect. It's not, it is an, uh, it's, it's all Black strip club. And I realize that, and then I also put together that I am like many of you, in that I'm white. And I am the kind of white, uh, where I have streaks in my skin that softly glow under black light. So I put together that I am the only white guy in an all Black strip club, and I'm glowing. Everybody sees me. I just... And then an argument took place in my brain. And to understand this argument, you need to know two things about me, is one, I am a coward. I am fundamentally a coward. I, my fight or flight response kicks in if the wind blows the wrong way. The other thing you need to know about me is that I am a left-wing liberal nutjob who voted for Obama twice. And so those two parts of my brain had an argument. And the argument was, "You have to get out of here. You have to get out. You have to go. Leave now. This is not, you are not welcome here. This is a bad, bad place for you to be. If you stay here, bad things will happen. I don't know what they are, but terrible things will happen. The world will come to an end." "But you can't just turn around and leave, 'cause they'll think you're a racist, and you're not a racist, are you?" "No, I'm definitely not a racist. I am so not a racist. I know I've never met anyone here before, and I'm never gonna meet them again, but it's really important that they know that I am definitely not a racist." "I like the Green Lantern. My favorite Green Lantern is the Black one. I am so not a racist." "All right, I need an escape plan. Hey, there's a bar. Go sit at the bar. Have a drink. Finish the drink, and then you're wearing glasses and tight pants, so just get up, sigh heavily. They'll think you're a hipster. It'll all be cool." My escape plan is to be too cool for the strip club. So I, I go, I execute my extraction plan. I go to the bar. I sit down. I have a $9 Miller Lite, 'cause it's a strip club. I start watching The Simpsons, because The Simpsons is on the television. I don't know why this... To this day, I've never figured out why The Simpsons was on in a strip club at 2:00 in the afternoon. I am about to finish my drink when a woman walks up to me and says, "Would you like a dance?" And my brain said, no, but my white liberal guilt said, "Sounds like fun!" So she shoves me into a couch and grinds on me for about 10 or 15 bucks. And it was at that point that the song Welcome to the Jungle started playing. And she gets up and goes, "Are you okay?" Which I don't think is how a lap dance is supposed to end. I said, "I thought this was a magic shop." And she said, "You're not the first magician we've had in here." And then she took me by the hand and walked me to the door, and I am not clever enough to make this up. As we passed the bouncer, she said, "We have another Copperfield." And she ushered me out of the establishment. I started walking back to my hotel. And then, what happened next was the most humiliating moment of my adult life. As I walked through the, through downtown Atlanta, the still-nude stripper exited the strip club and waved at me like I was a schoolchild. My name is Eric Tate. You guys have been wicked. Thank you very much. Have a great night.
Tim Fulton Thank you for listening to the Confluence Cast, presented by Columbus Underground. Again, you can get more information on what we discussed today in the show notes for this episode at theconfluencecast.com. Please rate, subscribe, share this episode of the Confluence Cast with your friends, family, contacts, enemies, your favorite actor. If you're interested in sponsoring the Confluence Cast, get in touch with us. We can be reached by email at info@theconfluencecast.com. Our theme music was composed by Benji Robinson. I'm your host, Tim Fulton. Have a great week.